Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2007-03-16

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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Time Nick Message
00:02 TimToady heh, I'm famous for almost being famous, I gues... http://www.eweek.com/slideshow_viewer/0​,1205,l=&s=26831&a=203045&p​o=2,00.asp?p=y?kc=EWEWEMNL031507EP35A
00:02 lambdabot Title: Top 100 Most Influential People in IT, Part 1 - Top 100 Most Influential People  ..., http://tinyurl.com/2qhnnt
00:03 TimToady *guess
00:03 Aankhen`` LOL.  Congrats.
00:03 TimToady or maybe almost not being famous, is more like...
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00:20 geoffb Reading back to audreyt & TimToady's discussion about pads, I was confused until I realized they were refering to a 'padentry', not to 'pedantry'.
00:22 TimToady the two are not mutually exclusive
00:25 diakopter TimToady: is Conway's pod parser far off?
00:28 tene Heh.
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00:29 Aankhen`` Does !~ have a particular meaning?
00:30 TimToady don't concatenate?  er...
00:30 Aankhen`` I was just wondering why it can't have the same meaning as !~~
00:31 offby1 ~~~:     <-- snake!  Run.
00:31 TimToady Aankhen``: 'cuz I'm cruel.
00:31 Aankhen`` Ah, that explains it. :-D
00:33 TimToady diakopter: it's close, but he's had various distractions including father-in-law in the hospital with a heart attack, and generating copious feedback on current synopses
00:34 Aankhen`` Okay, quick, someone make a couple of commits so I can test my patch to svnbot. :-P
00:34 TimToady seriously, since we're making everyone change from =~ to ~~ it didn't seem like a problem to switch !~ to the more regular !~~ syntax at the same time
00:35 TimToady didn't seem worth it in the case of != or ne though
00:35 TimToady especially since != goes all the way back to C
00:36 TimToady decommuting &
00:37 Aankhen`` Makes sense; it's just that !~ is a whole character shorter. =)
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00:55 TimToady heh, GoogleWiFi works pretty good in a car...
00:55 TimToady (not driving)
00:57 TimToady doesn't like sound walls though.
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01:38 offby1 well, who does?
01:53 allbery_b ?eval 1
01:53 evalbot_r15727 1
01:54 * allbery_b pushes the button...
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01:58 svnbot6 r15728 | diakopter++ | Restoring XHTML validation for an html page.
01:58 svnbot6 r15728 | diakopter++ | And testing Aankhen``'s new svnbot.
02:00 Aankhen`` diakopter: I had to give up on that... couldn't get it working properly.
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02:12 allbery_b @tell audreyb still getting lots of "does not export ..." messages with 6.7.  giving up on it
02:12 lambdabot Consider it noted.
02:13 Khisanth audreyb?
02:14 allbery_b duh
02:14 allbery_b @tell audreyt still getting lots of "does not export ..." messages with 6.7.  giving up on it
02:14 lambdabot Consider it noted.
02:15 * allbery_b still can';t type worth a damn :>
02:18 * Khisanth has the same problem with no,now,not
02:18 * allbery_b just does typoes a lot.  some fatfingers, some he has no idea how they happen
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04:05 allbery_b @tell audreyt the good news is, ext/HTML-Entities/t/entities.t no longer loops
04:05 lambdabot Consider it noted.
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05:15 svnbot6 r15729 | bsb++ |  r301@ogum:  bsb | 2007-03-16 16:13:15 +1100
05:15 svnbot6 r15729 | bsb++ |  started adding URLs to a_dependency_graph.dot
05:19 Alias__ audreyt: FYI, I just did a M:I release and added recursive tests
05:19 Alias__ only dev release for now
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05:57 svnbot6 r15730 | bsb++ |  r310@ogum:  bsb | 2007-03-16 16:55:17 +1100
05:57 svnbot6 r15730 | bsb++ |  Instructions to make a clickable a_dependency_graph.html
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10:12 audreyt interesting p5 tidbit: ${...} is a cheaper way to write do{...}
10:12 audreyt i.e. when you say
10:12 audreyt condition(...) or do { action; action; next };
10:12 audreyt it's equally valid to say
10:13 audreyt condition(...) or ${ action; action; next }
10:16 * audreyt goes back cleaning up pads
10:17 audreyt allbery_b: I see, mtl has changed layout. I'll deal.
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10:47 audreyt hm. perl5's \&z always works as \&THIS_PACKAGE::z and never padsv &z
10:48 audreyt so it already treats sigils nonuniformly
10:48 audreyt ah, that was because &z never lives in the pad.
10:48 dakkar subs are always package-level...
10:49 audreyt well, 5.10 has my $_, which can leads to my subs
10:49 audreyt but yeah.
10:49 audreyt the fun thing is that with pugs refactoring, subs are never looked up in package level unless you use &qualified::subs notation
10:50 audreyt which hopefully means even faster dispatch. we'll see
10:50 dakkar subs get imported into pads?
10:50 dakkar at compile time, I suppose...
10:50 audreyt yes, import is _always_ lexical
10:51 audreyt the only difference is whether you also put it into qualified scope, i.e. you can import to OUR
10:51 audreyt but it's always lexical.
10:51 dakkar ok, I used the wrong verb...
10:51 audreyt but that is fantastic as you can say
10:51 audreyt { use CGI; ...a lot of symbols ... } ... not leaked ...
10:52 audreyt and they won't pollute YourPackage::symbol
10:52 audreyt since they don't, by default, enter into OUR scope.
10:52 dakkar sub stuff {...}; sub another {stuff()}; <-- «stuff» is looked for in «another»'s pad, then in the container pad?
10:52 audreyt correct.
10:52 audreyt and the lookup is calculated at compile time
10:53 audreyt at runtime we can use O(1) representation.
10:53 audreyt (as a consequence, "sub stuff{...}; sub another {stuff(); sub stuff{...}}" is error)
10:53 audreyt not merely warning but error
10:53 dakkar so how do we do that delightfully horrible thing of overriding a sub in someone else's packages?
10:53 audreyt if you switch the inner "sub stuff" with "stuff()" call, then it's merely warning
10:53 audreyt you do it explicitly...
10:54 audreyt &another_package::symbol := ...
10:54 dakkar and it writes into all the pads?
10:54 audreyt no
10:54 audreyt when you declare
10:54 audreyt our &foo
10:54 * dakkar is getting confused
10:54 audreyt which is the default for "sub foo"
10:54 audreyt it creates a padentry
10:54 dakkar oh! we can't override a 'my' sub
10:55 audreyt it's stored in both pkg and lex pad
10:55 audreyt if you rebind it in one it's of course reflected in another
10:55 audreyt correct. you cannot modify somebody else's lexical pad.
10:55 audreyt not without that somebody's consent.
10:55 audreyt that somebody can declare consent saying
10:56 audreyt my sub foo (...) is context<rw> { ... }
10:56 audreyt but you can't introduce new symbols
10:56 audreyt nor can you rebind symbols in other pads, without some other route to reach its entry
10:56 audreyt e.g. by OUR:: or by CALLER:: navigation
10:57 audreyt which are both off-limits by default when you say "my sub foo".
10:57 audreyt which is good :)
10:57 dakkar yes, definitely
10:57 dakkar all this means that the powerful-but-don't-do-it things that we can do in Perl 5 will still be possible, but they won't happen by accident ;-)
10:59 audreyt yes :)
11:00 audreyt the imported-subs-conflicting-with-your-subs
11:00 audreyt and import-subs-masquerading-as-your-methods
11:00 audreyt and overrideen-methods-accident​ally-destroys-imported-subs
11:00 audreyt problems are naturally gone
11:00 audreyt :)
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12:37 [smash] audreyt: ping
12:38 diakopter joined perl6
12:42 audreyt [smash]: pong!
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12:45 audreyt [smash]: have some cycles?
12:47 [smash] audreyt: cycles !?
12:48 audreyt i.e. time to work on Capture/Signature compatibleness checke
12:48 audreyt checker
12:48 [smash] not yet.. didn't you read the private messages i sent you ?
12:51 audreyt oh ok
12:51 audreyt got it now
12:55 fglock the 6on6 compiler seems to need first-class namespaces and pad-stacks; I wonder if is this due to a wrong choice of internal architecture
12:57 mj41 Google Summer of Code 2007 is on! http://code.google.com/soc
12:57 lambdabot Title: Google Code - Summer of Code - Google Summer of Code
12:58 fglock I mean, because first-class namespaces and pad-stacks are not in the p6 spec
12:59 integral mj41: No TPF this year though
12:59 fglock re Google - no perl?
13:03 audreyt no perl no pugs :)
13:03 audreyt <- signed up to be mentor at haskell.org side for people who'd work on pugs
13:03 integral there's some pugs ideas on the haskell.org ideas page fwiw
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13:24 fglock re 6on6 - closures are currently created with eval(), which calls the compiler recursively
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13:30 lichtkind morjn guys and audrey :)
13:31 lichtkind audreyt had any notes?
13:31 fglock lichtkind: hi
13:32 lichtkind hi fglock
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13:33 audreyt lichtkind: try adding in the http://spec.pugscode.org/ link somewhere :)
13:33 lambdabot Title: Official Perl 6 Documentation
13:34 lichtkind audreyt thats a nobrainer since there is an linklist below it wasnt because some unready textblocks were between text and linklist and i dont wanted to send you this
13:34 audreyt ok
13:34 audreyt Ann's name is Ann not Anne
13:34 fglock 6on6 actually calls eval( "...", :lang<vm-language>)
13:35 audreyt fglock: the compiler would need first class ns/pad objects
13:35 audreyt doesn't mean we need to expose it to userland
13:35 audreyt that sounds like not a problem
13:35 lichtkind Audreyt yes and btw http://spec.pugscode.org/ was already in :)
13:35 lambdabot Title: Official Perl 6 Documentation
13:35 fglock audreyt: ah, ok
13:35 audreyt lichtkind: I mean s/Anne/Ann/ in your article
13:35 audreyt oh cool.
13:36 lichtkind audrey yes been there done that :)
13:37 fglock audreyt: would you have a use for 6-on-java?
13:37 lichtkind audreyt i currently rewritten some parts and want to finish it today , you want it again then?
13:37 audreyt sure
13:37 audreyt lichtkind: it may be good to mention that pugs is no longer only a haskell-based interpreter
13:38 lichtkind it is ? *surprised*
13:38 lichtkind its now pugs based ?
13:38 audreyt it's hybrid: the perl5 vm and GHC vm is linked together
13:38 audreyt so perl5 modules and haskell modules can both run natively
13:39 audreyt and we can link in other interpreters if needed (SpiderMonkey for JavaScript modules, JVM for Java modules)
13:39 audreyt so we glue VMs together (in the same process) to achieve multi language interoperability
13:39 moritz_ ... to produce pugs executables with arbitrary sizes ;)
13:39 audreyt rather than glue languages together into one VM
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13:40 audreyt why yes but at least you asked for it :)
13:40 lichtkind thats great feature but what type are the vm files?
13:40 audreyt .so, .dll
13:40 audreyt dynamic libraries, usually
13:40 lichtkind ah
13:40 audreyt perl58.dll on windows, libperl.so on unix
13:40 audreyt so pugs is a compiler that targets multiple, maybe hybrid VMs
13:41 lichtkind yes thats ge mentioned in the second unwritten part of the pugs chapter
13:41 audreyt parrot is a vm that can be targetted by multiple, maybe hybrid compilers
13:41 audreyt each aims to achieve language interop mandated by p6, but in opposite directions
13:41 audreyt fglock: not atm :)
13:42 lichtkind so we get 2 platforms or there any pülans to let grow togehter?
13:42 audreyt pugs has a parrot backend but it only supports a very limited range of perl6
13:42 audreyt same applies to kp6/mp6
13:42 fglock audreyt: ok - just checking; there seems to be some interest on $job here
13:43 audreyt fglock: I've found Inline::Java to be too good :)
13:43 audreyt fglock: once you use its AUTOSTUDY and JNI together, the overhead and hassle becomes negligible
13:43 audreyt so probably won't look for another solution beyond that
13:44 fglock oh, nice - I should try it then
13:44 audreyt atm
13:44 audreyt it's surprisingly sane :)
13:44 audreyt (it's also been under development for 6 years.)
13:44 audreyt (more, if you count the ancestors such as JPL)
13:45 fglock this makes possible eval(..., lang:<Java>)
13:45 audreyt fglock: pugs now does that :)
13:45 fglock cool
13:45 audreyt it's just
13:46 audreyt use Inline ( Java => 'STUDY', AUTOSTUDY => 1, JNI => 1, STUDY => ['java.module.here'] );
13:46 audreyt java::module::here->new(...)
13:46 moritz_ wow, that's way cool
13:46 audreyt is all.
13:46 moritz_ are there any examples/test cases in the repository?
13:46 audreyt (that's if you are in the main package. otherwise, YourPackage::java::module::here->new)
13:46 audreyt moritz_: no, the code was just in yesterday. want to write some?
13:47 audreyt moritz_: the current syntax to write tests for is
13:47 audreyt     use java:java.lang.System;
13:47 audreyt     say "Greetings from Java ", System.getProperty('java.version');
13:47 audreyt which should get
13:47 audreyt     Greetings from Java 1.5.0_07
13:47 audreyt by all means write tests and/or examples :)
13:47 moritz_ audreyt: I'd like to, but my girlfriend is here for ~ 1 week, and I have nearly no time for such things ;)
13:47 audreyt oh. that's okay, code can wait :)
13:47 moritz_ audreyt: but when she's gone again I might write some
13:47 lichtkind audreyt: ehat please is kp6/mp6?
13:48 audreyt lichtkind: http://svn.pugscode.org/pugs/​v6/v6-KindaPerl6/docs/FAQ.pod
13:53 lichtkind k
13:57 lichtkind fglock++
13:59 lichtkind bye
13:59 moritz_ lichtkind: bye
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14:18 rindolf Somebody talk to me!
14:18 rindolf ;-)
14:18 moritz_ rindolf: foo()
14:18 rindolf moritz_: return undef;
14:19 moritz_ die "Can't use undef as numerical value in RINDOLF line 3"
14:19 svnbot6 r15731 | fglock++ | kp6 - FAQ: </vacations>
14:19 moritz_ ;-)
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14:22 rindolf moritz_: OK, I'm not fluent in PerlSpeak. Shall we talk in English, instead?
14:22 rindolf moritz_: what's up?
14:22 moritz_ rindolf: not much..
14:22 moritz_ I'm currently generating 12x12-Sudokus for my website :-)
14:23 rindolf moritz_: with "digits" up to 12?
14:23 moritz_ rindolf: with letters instead of digits
14:23 rindolf moritz_: but how are they divided?
14:23 moritz_ rindolf: in 4x3-blocks
14:24 rindolf moritz_: ah.
14:24 moritz_ rindolf: empty grids of various sizes are already available
14:24 moritz_ rindolf: http://sudokugarden.de/en/info/flavours
14:24 lambdabot Title: About Sudoku - Different Flavours :: Sudoku Garden
14:25 moritz_ rindolf: no I'm working on a script that generates arbitrary sized sudokus into pdf files
14:25 rindolf moritz_: ISTR that Sudoko is NP-complete.
14:25 rindolf At least I read it in the wikipedia.
14:25 moritz_ rindolf: it isn't if you can assume that a single solution exists
14:26 moritz_ rindolf: or at least that's what I read some time ago
14:28 rindolf Although typical Sudoku puzzles (with 9×9 grid and 3×3 regions) can be solved quickly by computer, the generalization to larger grids is known to be NP-Complete. Various optimisation methods have been proposed for large grids.
14:28 rindolf http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudoku
14:28 lambdabot Title: Sudoku - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
14:29 moritz_ rindolf: ok, the _generation_ is NP-complete
14:29 rindolf moritz_: no generali*sa*tion
14:38 moritz_ ?eval say 17/81
14:38 evalbot_r15731 OUTPUT[0.209876543209876543​2098765432098765432099␤] Bool::True
14:47 Limbic_Region ooh neat
14:47 Limbic_Region ?evaly my
14:47 Limbic_Region er
14:47 evalbot_r15731 Error: ␤Unexpected end of input␤expecting "=", formal parameter, context, ":" or "("
14:47 Limbic_Region ?eval my $pi = atan(2,2) * 4; $pi
14:47 evalbot_r15731 \3.141592653589793
14:48 Limbic_Region ?
14:48 Limbic_Region ?eval say atan(2,2) * 4.0
14:48 evalbot_r15731 OUTPUT[3.141592653589793␤] Bool::True
14:48 * Limbic_Region feels cheated
14:49 moritz_ Limbic_Region: why?
14:51 Limbic_Region why should 17/18 get more digits than pi - everyone loves pi, I eat it when ever I can
14:51 Limbic_Region but with so little pi to go around, I am not getting my fair share
14:52 moritz_ $ pi|wc -c
14:52 moritz_ 108
14:53 Limbic_Region oh, you mean it is just evalbot
14:53 Limbic_Region hrm
14:54 Limbic_Region or what?
14:54 moritz_ Limbic_Region: no, I have a program "pi" installed, that gives 106 digits per default
14:55 moritz_ Limbic_Region: so if you love pi, use this program ;)
14:55 moritz_ time pi 10000|wc -c
14:55 moritz_ 10010
14:55 moritz_ real    0m0.095s
14:55 Limbic_Region oh, well - calculating pi isn't terribly difficult
14:56 Limbic_Region I'm just confused as to why pugs would be giving different levels of precision
14:56 moritz_ Limbic_Region: well, atan2 is certainly more difficult than a fraction
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15:34 svnbot6 r15732 | audreyt++ | * Pugs.AST.Internals: Remove the envClasses field as it does
15:34 svnbot6 r15732 | audreyt++ |   not add to anything; we'll switch to MO-based type narrowness
15:34 svnbot6 r15732 | audreyt++ |   dispatch anyway, so the notion of "global type-distance" can
15:34 svnbot6 r15732 | audreyt++ |   be obsoleted now.
15:34 svnbot6 r15733 | audreyt++ | * regen instances.
15:36 Limbic_Region audreyt - don't know what the rest of the field looks like, but Win32 was about 412 failing tests last night (but nearly 90 min smoke time)
15:36 svnbot6 r15734 | audreyt++ | * Pugs.Run.Args: Repair -p and -n.
15:38 rindolf Hi audreyt
15:38 svnbot6 r15735 | audreyt++ | * Pugs.AST.Pos: Switch to a ByteString representation of
15:38 svnbot6 r15735 | audreyt++ |   the source file name to avoid unneccessary heap use.
15:40 pasteling "evalbot_r15731" at 194.145.200.126 pasted "Pugs build failure" (406 lines, 21.8K) at http://sial.org/pbot/23530
15:40 svnbot6 r15736 | audreyt++ | * Pugs.Types: Memoize all type-distance calls since we no
15:40 svnbot6 r15736 | audreyt++ |   longer have a Env-global class tree.
15:41 TimToady Limbic_Region: the fraction of pi is probably using rationals, and just cuts off the division arbitrarily at 40 digits, since it's a repeating fraction.  atan2 is using floaters
15:43 svnbot6 r15737 | audreyt++ | * Pugs.*: Chase the envClasses change.
15:43 svnbot6 r15737 | audreyt++ |   This concludes the envClasses batch.
15:45 Limbic_Region thanks TimToady.  Is there anything in the spec that speaks to precision?
15:45 integral hmm, continued fractions
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15:49 TimToady S02:549 talks about how division can be forced to return a rational by pragma, but doesn't specify the pragma
15:50 TimToady Num is assumed to be floating point.
15:50 TimToady which has built-in precision limitations
15:51 Limbic_Region ok
15:51 TimToady how precision is specified to the Rational class is underspecified
15:51 TimToady current Rat seems to like the number 40 for some reason
15:51 rindolf Hi TimToady
15:51 rindolf TimToady: what's up?
15:51 TimToady foo()
15:52 rindolf TimToady: you've started speaking in Perl too?
15:52 TimToady I dreamed in Perl once...
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15:52 rindolf TimToady: so did my friend.
15:52 TimToady sorry to hear your friend is going insane
15:52 svnbot6 r15738 | audreyt++ | * util/yaml_harness.pl: Speed up concurrent smoking by
15:52 svnbot6 r15738 | audreyt++ |   assigning interleaving tasks (instead of consecutive ones)
15:52 svnbot6 r15738 | audreyt++ |   across childrens.
15:53 rindolf TimToady: he dreamed in Perl once.
15:54 rindolf I never dreamed in Perl, but I sometimes dreamed in gvim.
15:54 rindolf Thinking I was sitting next to gvim being able to type stuff on the keyboard.
15:54 rindolf Wow! I commited over 20 revisions today to the Test::Run repository.
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16:07 TimToady hmm, shouldn't the noun for a rational number just be Ratio?
16:08 TimToady then we can snigger when the newbies pronounce it "rat I/O"
16:09 audreyt that's the name Haskell uses...
16:09 audreyt whew, smoke time back to <20min
16:09 TimToady Ratio?
16:09 TimToady or Rat?
16:09 audreyt yeah
16:09 audreyt Ratio
16:10 audreyt arbitrary-precision rationals (Ratio Integer) is type-synonymed to "Rational"
16:10 audreyt but you can have (Ratio Int) too if you want
16:10 audreyt which is fixed-precision
16:10 TimToady I'd be more inclined to alias Ratio to Rat
16:11 audreyt ok...
16:11 audreyt Perl 6, the first language to have built in Rat and Cat types.
16:11 TimToady where does H get the 40 digit precision from?
16:11 TimToady just hardwired somewhere?  (somehow I doubt it)
16:12 audreyt Double I think
16:12 audreyt same as C
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16:13 TimToady why would Ratio have anything to do with Double?
16:13 audreyt oh, nvm.
16:13 audreyt it's hardcoded alright
16:14 audreyt src/Pugs/AST/Utils.hs:135
16:14 audreyt and :137
16:14 audreyt forgot how/why we did it :)
16:15 TimToady well, we can probably allow $x / $y :rat(42) as a micropragma
16:15 audreyt mmm more multi variants to write
16:15 TimToady but that might slow it down
16:15 audreyt now we actually _have_ to allow named multi resolution...
16:15 TimToady do we require it for anything else yet?
16:16 TimToady ignoring my usage in STD.pm
16:17 TimToady we can probably just "use Rat :prec(582)" and avoid committing adverbial pragmacide.
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16:26 audreyt well :p
16:27 audreyt I mean hash :p
16:27 audreyt not the smiley
16:27 Limbic_Region hrm, concurrent doesn't appear to be doing the right thing on Win32
16:32 TimToady pity we don't have a 3-letter word for Complex
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16:34 TimToady course, whoever called them "complex numbers" in the first place had no clue about the notion of the problems of using too general of a word...
16:34 Limbic_Region use a synonym that can be crammed into 3 chars?
16:35 specbot6 r14352 | larry++ | The ratio type is now a noun, not an adjective.
16:35 specbot6 r14352 | larry++ | No longer spec that / must pragmatically produce a Rat.
16:35 specbot6 r14352 | larry++ | Instead, Int div Int is now guaranteed to return a Rat.
16:35 specbot6 r14352 | larry++ | An integerized Rat is a truncated Rat.
16:35 Limbic_Region IIRC, I first hacked in concurrency support on Win32 using Parallel::ForkManager
16:36 TimToady Rpi "real plus imaginary"  not pronouncable.  There are cultural problems with "Real and imaginary", though.
16:36 * Limbic_Region wonders why it doesn't work quite right now
16:38 TimToady Real Imaginary Number, a Rin.  Now just need a Tin type to really go to the dogs...
16:39 jrockway maybe we should add a unicode symbol for these types :)
16:43 diakopter how about %
16:43 diakopter oh wait, we're done with ratio, on to complex; sorry
16:45 TimToady Both Imaginary and Real Data
16:45 rindolf TimToady: Rin, heh
16:45 rindolf TimToady: can we also have a Dolf?
16:46 TimToady Dolphin, maybe
16:46 rindolf Rindolphin?
16:50 TimToady maybe complex should be Dodo, for "double double".  :)
16:50 Limbic_Region hrm - I suspect Parallel::ForkManager
16:52 TimToady but that's not 3 letters...
16:52 TimToady lessee.  if the type actually tries to optimize non complex into a num, then we could call it a "Real Or Complex", that is, a Roc.
16:53 Kinbote joined perl6
16:54 TimToady Complex has too many consonants to abbreviate to three letters, alas.
16:55 TimToady C5x would work.  :)
16:55 VanilleBert left perl6
16:55 TimToady biab &
16:55 jamhed joined perl6
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17:01 jrockway Cmplx :)
17:08 TimToady Nim
17:09 TimToady Nums and Nims
17:09 * geoffb imagines his declarations reading like Jabberwocky or Dr. Seuss
17:10 TimToady I wonder how you play Nim with imaginary numbers?
17:10 Limbic_Region I kind of liked c5x
17:10 TimToady looks like some kind of cable
17:10 geoffb TimToady: two piles, taking from either one or the other each turn?
17:10 Limbic_Region of course - it would only work for those who could s/5/omple/
17:11 geoffb TimToady: That would be c5e, of course.
17:11 geoffb Wow, c5e is 40 words in /usr/share/dict/words
17:12 TimToady I think having an unrelated digit in the middle of nimeric computations would be a mistake.
17:12 geoffb Interestingly
17:12 geoffb Oh, doh, stupid me
17:12 TimToady there's that 40 again.
17:13 geoffb It's 110 words.  c5x, however, is only two: complex and chamoix
17:14 Limbic_Region geoffb - we could generalize it to c2x
17:14 TimToady 18 words here
17:14 geoffb I'm guessing the chamoix type does proactive garbage collection
17:14 Limbic_Region where instead of 2 being two chars
17:14 Limbic_Region it is to
17:14 Limbic_Region so starts with c and ends with x
17:14 TimToady cakebox carapax carefox casebox cashbox centrex chamoix chevaux choenix ciseaux coalbox coannex complex conflux corebox coteaux cow-pox curtlax
17:14 geoffb TimToady: clearly your dict is bigger than mine
17:15 TimToady er
17:15 geoffb Oh see, now there are several non-english words there
17:15 geoffb Unless carapax is actually english, hmmm
17:16 geoffb Yeah, looks to be German
17:16 TimToady I have some German blood in me--that might explain it.
17:18 geoffb Jokes aside, where did your dictionary come from?  Is it system default, or something you installed separately?
17:18 TimToady fedora 6
17:18 geoffb hmm
17:20 * geoffb raises his eyebrows: Apparently Google is using wikipedia as a dictionary now too ... it's giving it as responses to define: queries
17:23 TimToady @tell audreyt my smoke of 15738 only went from 64 min to 60 min.  but at least that's the right direction. :)
17:23 lambdabot Consider it noted.
17:31 Limbic_Region TimToady - are you able to take advantage of concurrency in your smoke?
17:31 TimToady nope
17:33 Limbic_Region it took nearly 90 minutes last night - I set concurrency to 2 (as I have 2 procs) and I am testing again as of the most recent rev
17:33 TimToady Language question for the day: How come people talk about "serial killers" but not "parallel killers"?
17:33 Limbic_Region provided it doesn't "get stuck", I should have the results soonish
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17:36 TimToady Hmm, if ratios were a generic type we could have the Rats of Nim(h)
17:38 Limbic_Region TimToady - and with built in cryptography, we could have the secrets too
17:40 TimToady shower power &
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17:57 Limbic_Region @tell audreyt smoke concurrency intermittently breaks on Win32.  I will look into it if I get some round tuits
17:57 lambdabot Consider it noted.
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18:46 pmurias joined perl6
18:46 pmurias hi
18:46 offby1 ho
18:49 pmurias why dosn't TPF take part in the google summer of code?
18:49 justatheory joined perl6
18:49 TimToady nobody volunteered to mentor, basically.
18:52 * pmurias is too young to apply this year, but hopes that things will be different next summer
18:55 forsaken joined perl6
18:56 spinclad TimToady: Cpx came to mind and stuck there
18:58 spinclad now i want to type some gaussian ints and rats:  Z[i] and Q[i] ?
18:59 spinclad Complex of Int, Complex of Rat, Rat of Complex Int ...
18:59 justatheory joined perl6
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19:00 spinclad TimToady: in r14352:S02:540:  s/C<infix:/C<< infix:/
19:05 spinclad TimToady: in r14350:S02:1521: I don't see what `, and so on transitively´ is about.
19:08 spinclad and in line 1525, s/^/visible /  i think.
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19:28 pmurias fglock: hi
19:33 specbot6 r14353 | larry++ | Fixes suggested by spinclad++.
19:34 dmpk2k joined perl6
19:38 fglock pmurias: hey
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19:47 TimToady ?eval <good fast cheap>.pick(rand 3)
19:47 evalbot_r15738 ()
19:47 TimToady ah, the government solution
19:47 TimToady ?eval <good fast cheap>.pick(rand 3)
19:47 evalbot_r15738 ("fast",)
19:47 TimToady extreme programming
19:47 TimToady ?eval <good fast cheap>.pick(rand 3)
19:47 evalbot_r15738 ("cheap", "good")
19:47 TimToady there's Perl 6
19:48 TimToady ?eval <good fast cheap>.pick(rand 3)
19:48 evalbot_r15738 ("good", "fast")
19:49 TimToady that'd be a Cray of some sort, I suppose
19:50 TimToady I love this language.  :D
19:50 kolibrie :)
19:50 fglock :)
19:52 Limbic_Region yes, certainly not cheap
19:53 TimToady or maybe a PS3
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20:00 rindolf Hi all!
20:00 rindolf A bit OT, but on-topic because it's TAP-related.
20:00 rindolf Is there a Ruby way to attach meta-data to certain methods, similar to Perl 5's attributes?
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20:41 kolibrie I am creating an object ::Resource(url => 'http://' ~ $domain ~ '/path'), and class Resource { has $.domain, $.url }, but domain is not assigned until after url is, so my url is incorrect.
20:41 kolibrie how can I make this lazy
20:42 kolibrie or do it a different way?
20:42 IllvilJa joined perl6
20:44 kolibrie ::Resource(url => lazy('http://' ~ self.domain ~ '/path'))
20:45 * kolibrie does not think the self will point to the object he means
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20:58 weinig|bbl is now known as weinig
21:30 dmpk2k Are there any perl6 list summaries more recent than Feb 12, 2006?
21:30 tene dmpk2k: http://pugs.blogs.com/
21:30 lambdabot Title: Pugs
21:30 diakopter @tell audreyt you've got mail.  the good kind.
21:30 lambdabot Consider it noted.
21:31 tene I don't know why they're not posted to dev.perl.org or whatever anymore
21:31 dmpk2k tene: oh, thanks. :)
21:31 * dmpk2k was worried that had died off somehow.
21:31 tene Rather confusing to me, too, before I subscribed o the mailing lists
21:31 tene Thought that Perl 6 had died off.
21:32 dmpk2k Maybe someone should update dev.perl.org. For a long time I thought that perl6 had finally kicked the bucket.
21:32 dmpk2k It's not a hard conclusion to come to if you're on the outside.
21:36 tene dmpk2k: are you volunteering to maintain dev.perl.org if given access?
21:36 tene ;)
21:37 dmpk2k Disaster!
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21:42 lichtkind please what was the difference betweent PAST and POST again?
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21:51 diakopter is now known as diakopter_afk
21:52 diakopter_afk is now known as diakopter2
21:54 dmpk2k Auto-accessors are analogous to properties?
22:01 TimToady Properties are just methods.
22:01 TimToady Adding properties to an object is just mixins.
22:02 Psyche^ is now known as Patterner
22:02 TimToady However, mixins are not just mixins.  :)
22:02 pmurias lichtkind: the POST is the low-level AST representing parrot bytecode, PAST represents high-level language constructs
22:03 TimToady A for abstract, O for operators
22:04 lichtkind pmurias: so PAST ~~ PIR ; POST ~~ PASM ?
22:05 pmurias PAST ~~ perl6|python|ruby ; POST ~~ PIR
22:05 weinig is now known as weinig|bbl
22:05 lichtkind thanks a lot
22:05 lichtkind for what they need PASM now?
22:07 pmurias i'm not really a parrot guy, but PASM has mostly been replaced by PIR
22:07 pmurias i'm not sure if i'm looking in the right implementation , but POST is emitted to PIR at compilers/past-pm
22:09 pmurias the transformation process is i think source --> PAST --> POST --> PIR --> bytecode
22:09 pmurias makes any sense?
22:14 pmurias sleep&
22:15 lichtkind good night
22:16 lichtkind thanks but some things i still saw in PASM but it looked like some constant definitions ans older benchmarkes
22:17 lichtkind pmurias: yes your transform chart is correct
22:31 lichtkind bye
22:55 meppl good night
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23:36 rindolf TimToady: here?
23:45 avar rindolf: use the async powers of irc and @tell :)
23:51 rindolf http://www.frappr.com/freenodeperl/
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