Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2007-03-21

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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05:38 gaal @tell Limbic~Region Data and Typeable are two datatypes used in haskell reflection, yes; Data is the one allowing generic folds. So for example, to implement the function that looks at a block like { $^a cmp $^b } and infers the set of placeholder variables are {$^a, $^b}, you basically need to write only a function that works on variables, and the generics stuff will sift through a possibly very complex AST node and find those, applying your functi
05:38 lambdabot Consider it noted.
05:39 gaal @tell Limbic~Region both you can get default implementations of both typeclasses from GHC, but Typeable's defaults are more likely to DTRT.
05:39 lambdabot Consider it noted.
05:43 gaal @tell lumi regarding Hs<=>pugs val bridge, see class (Show a, Typeable a, Ord a) => Boxable at Pugs.Class:36 and various instances from there, eg instance (Show a, Typeable a, Ord a) => Boxable (Maybe a). No Data required.
05:43 lambdabot Consider it noted.
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09:15 lichtkind moin
09:15 lambdabot lichtkind: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
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09:18 lichtkind audreyt: thank
09:19 lichtkind i didnt found re::Engine::PGE where is it?
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09:51 moritz lichtkind: in the parrot repos there is a file runtime/parrort/library/PGE.pbc
09:51 moritz lichtkind: maybe it's that
09:51 moritz lichtkind: and there is a directory compilers/pge/
09:51 moritz lichtkind: sounds even better
09:52 lichtkind but you cant use it inside perl5?
09:53 moritz lichtkind: it says "This is a regular expression/rules/grammar engine/parser designed to
09:53 moritz       run in Parrot"
09:54 lichtkind yeah but re::Engine is normaly a perl5 plugin
09:54 lichtkind so i thopught re::engine::PGE is for the use in perl
10:02 lichtkind moritz: i know what pge is but when i heard yesterday of re::engine::PGE i was amazed about the possibility maybe i misunderstood something
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10:43 ayrnieu ?eval 'm' ~ 'oo' ~ 'se' | > reverse (show (scanl (*) 1 [1..] !! 4))
10:43 evalbot_r15771 Error: ␤Unexpected ">"
10:43 ayrnieu Ah, that is Perl6 and then Haskell.  Strange.
10:44 gaal two separate moose, folks :)
10:44 gaal ?eval 'm' ~ 'oo' ~ 'se'
10:44 evalbot_r15771 "moose"
10:44 gaal > reverse (show (scanl (*) 1 [1..] !! 4))
10:44 lambdabot "42"
10:44 ayrnieu ?eval [~] <m oo se>
10:44 evalbot_r15771 "moose"
10:44 gaal yay, golf
10:45 gaal changes topic to: http://pugscode.org | http://sial.org/pbot/perl6 | ?eval [~] <m oo se> | > reverse (show (scanl (*) 1 [1..] !! 4))
10:45 gaal changes topic to: http://pugscode.org | http://sial.org/pbot/perl6 | ?eval [~] <m oo se> | We do Haskell, too | > reverse (show (scanl (*) 1 [1..] !! 4))
10:45 gaal -- disambig
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11:27 broquaint What's the equivalent of that Haskell code in Perl 6?
11:28 moritz ?eval "42"
11:28 evalbot_r15771 "42"
11:28 moritz broquaint: that's it ;)
11:33 broquaint > show (scanl (*) 1 [1..] !! 4)
11:33 lambdabot "24"
11:34 broquaint Ah, I get it now.
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11:42 ayrnieu so, what's the real equivalent of that Haskell code in Perl 6?
11:43 Juerd ayrnieu: say "24";  # ;)
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11:44 ayrnieu these non-answers bore me.
11:49 masak ?reval reverse [*] 1..4
11:49 masak ayrnieu: that's the closest I get
11:49 [particle] it's factorial
11:49 masak ?eval reverse [*] 1..4
11:49 evalbot_r15771 "42"
11:49 [particle] 4!
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11:50 moritz but what's the reverse for?
11:50 moritz it currently reverses only a scalar
11:50 masak moritz: string reversal
11:50 moritz masak: ok, now I get it ;)
11:50 masak both in Perl and Haskell
11:50 Debolaz2 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikiped​ia:Articles_for_deletion/Audrey_Tang
11:51 lambdabot http://tinyurl.com/yrp267
11:51 masak (but for different reasons)
11:51 Debolaz2 is now known as Debolaz
11:51 ayrnieu masak - well, for the same reason, but of course the semantics differ.
11:51 masak ayrnieu: as I understand it, in Haskell a string is a list
11:52 masak while in Perl, reverse does one thing for scalars and another for arrays
11:52 ayrnieu masak - yes, that would be part of the 'semantics' that differ.  The reason is still the same.
11:52 masak ayrnieu: ok, granted :)
11:53 ayrnieu but OK, I'll accept { reverse [*] 1..4 } as a nice golf of that Haskell :-)
11:57 ayrnieu It could be better with a  take 4 $ [1..]  ; how is that in perl6?  In Perl5, that specifically is easy enough to simulate with a tied array.
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12:06 gaal broquaint: we don't have lazy lists yet, but once we do: reverse ([\*] 1 .. *)[4]
12:06 gaal broquaint: [*] is fold, [\*] is scan
12:06 gaal (on (*))
12:07 gaal associtivity and id are defined as traits on the operator
12:08 gaal ?eval ([\*] 1 .. 10)[4]
12:08 evalbot_r15771 \120
12:08 gaal ?eval ([\*] 1 .. 10)[3]
12:08 gaal heh.
12:08 evalbot_r15771 \24
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12:10 broquaint Do/will fold & scan exist as functions?
12:13 gaal fold is spelled "reduce", and exists
12:13 gaal scan.. let me check :)
12:13 gaal ah yes
12:14 gaal scan is spelled "produce", TimToady++
12:14 broquaint Groovy.
12:14 gaal ? produce &infix<+> 1..4
12:14 gaal ?eval produce &infix<+> 1..4
12:14 evalbot_r15771 Error: ␤Unexpected "1"␤expecting operator, ":" or ","
12:14 gaal ?eval produce &infix<+>, 1..4
12:14 lichtkind but is it right that MAD will be pluffed into perl?
12:14 gaal grrr
12:14 evalbot_r15771 Error: Cannot cast into Hash: VRef <Sub:0xb7ae14b4>
12:15 gaal brb
12:15 lichtkind i mean perl with little p
12:17 moritz ?eval produce {$^a+$^b}, 1..4
12:17 evalbot_r15771 (1, 3, 6, 10)
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12:18 fglock lichtkind: re::engine is in CPAN: http://search.cpan.org/search?query=re%3A%3Aengine
12:18 lambdabot Title: The CPAN Search Site - search.cpan.org
12:18 lichtkind fglock: i know but i didnt found it there
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12:25 gaal ?eval produce &infix:<+>, 1..4 # that's more like it
12:25 evalbot_r15771 (1, 3, 6, 10)
12:27 fglock lichtkind: avar said he will publish it, after re::engine::Plugin v0.02 is out
12:28 lichtkind will it be out in may?
12:49 lichtkind avar: do you have schedule for re::engine::PGE ?
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12:56 avar why may?
12:56 avar trying to finish it soonish for the last month:)
12:56 avar I should pack what I have and do a release sometimes soon, still need api polish and docs though:)
12:56 avar *updated docs
13:00 fglock avar: do you know there is a place in pugs for work-in-progress, at misc/pX/
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13:00 lichtkind avar: because the article i writing will me out in may and i want to only write about when it will be out :)
13:01 lichtkind avar: what does re::endine do to perl5 ?
13:01 lichtkind err
13:01 lichtkind avar: what does re::engine::PGE do to perl5 ?
13:03 avar wrap Pugs::Compiler::Rule so you can do
13:03 avar if ("boobs" =~ /\$<x> = (b[oo|w]bs)/) {
13:03 avar    say $&->{x}; # implemented
13:03 avar    say $+{x};   # plan on it
13:03 avar }
13:03 avar all the re::engine:: stuff swaps out perl5 regexes for something else
13:05 avar oh, PGE, PGE would wrap the Parrot Grammar Engine, I've only started on PCR - Pugs Compiler Rule
13:06 avar http://sial.org/pbot/23656 - # PCR.pm so far
13:06 lambdabot Title: Paste #23656 from Someone at 85.197.228.236
13:09 lichtkind avar: so ist re::engine::PCR?
13:10 lichtkind i know approx what re::engine does
13:10 lichtkind i just whant to be correct in my article :)
13:13 lichtkind avar: s/ist/its/
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13:14 avar yep
13:14 avar see package:)
13:16 avar lichtkind: http://svn.perl.is/svnweb/​index.cgi/perl.is/browse/
13:17 lambdabot Title: browse: /perl.is (Rev: HEAD, via SVN::Web)
13:19 lichtkind avar: thanks wtf is plan9 ?
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13:19 avar http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plan_9_from_Bell_Labs
13:19 lambdabot Title: Plan 9 from Bell Labs - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
13:23 avar http://svn.perl.is/svnweb/index.cgi/perl​.is/browse%2Fre-engine-Plugin%2Ftrunk/t # best reference of what works atm
13:23 lambdabot Title: browse: /perl.is/re-engine-Plugin/trunk/t (Rev: HEAD, via SVN::Web), http://tinyurl.com/2fgllp
13:24 avar all those tests pass at the moment
13:28 lichtkind avar: so its the regexes from plan9 regex lib ?
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13:35 avar lichtkind: yeah
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13:47 moritz ?eval class f {has @.f; method foo {return $.f}} my $f=f.new; say $f.foo'
13:47 evalbot_r15771 Error: ␤Unexpected "'"␤expecting term postfix, operator, ":" or ","
13:48 moritz on my maschine that compiles and runs (although it should not)
13:48 moritz ?eval class f {has @.f; method foo {return $.f}} my $f=f.new; say $f.foo
13:48 evalbot_r15771 OUTPUT[␤] Bool::True
13:48 masak ?eval class f {has @.f; method foo {return $.f}} my $f=f.new; $f.foo
13:48 evalbot_r15771 []
13:48 moritz it allows access to $.foo although only @.foo should be available
13:49 masak moritz: yeah, seems like a bug
13:50 moritz masak: any idea where an appropriate testcase should be?
13:50 masak moritz: t/oo/attributes?
13:51 moritz masak: somwhere there, probably
13:51 * masak is currently making an inventory of the pugs test suite
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13:51 masak so you're kinda asking the right person :)
13:52 masak 'though I'm by no means an expert on it
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13:59 moritz maybe t/oo/attributes/instance.t?
14:00 lichtkind avar: thx
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15:02 pmurias masak: S12: Because C<$.foo>, C<@.foo>, C<%.foo>, C<&.foo> are just shorthands of
15:02 pmurias C<self.foo> with different contexts
15:03 pmurias ?eval class f {has @.f; method foo {return $.f}} my $f=f.new; @f.foo
15:03 evalbot_r15771 Error: No such method in class Array: &foo
15:04 pmurias ?eval class f {has @.f;} my $f=f.new; $f.f
15:04 evalbot_r15771 []
15:04 pmurias ?eval class f {has @.f; method foo {return @.f}} my $f=f.new; @f.foo
15:04 evalbot_r15771 Error: No such method in class Array: &foo
15:05 pmurias ?eval class f {has @.f; method foo {return @.f}} my $f=f.new; $f.foo
15:05 evalbot_r15771 []
15:05 pmurias (1,2,3)
15:05 pmurias ?eval (1,2,3)
15:05 evalbot_r15771 (1, 2, 3)
15:05 pmurias ?eval sub {return 1,2,3};f()
15:05 evalbot_r15771 Error: No such subroutine: &f
15:05 pmurias ?eval sub f {return 1,2,3};f()
15:06 evalbot_r15771 (1, 2, 3)
15:06 pmurias my @a;@a
15:06 pmurias ?eval my @a;@a
15:06 evalbot_r15771 []
15:31 obra We're looking for a new perl6 summarizer. Would anyone here be interested in the fame and fortune that comes with being the person to put a public face on all the work that goes on on Perl 6 each week?
15:32 [particle] *cough* good luck! *cough*
15:32 * obra smacks particle
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15:32 [particle] has ann stopped for good?
15:33 obra ann's finding herself without enough time to do as good a job as she feels the job deserves
15:33 obra She's going to hang around for a bit to help with an orderly transition.
15:34 [particle] you know, i was wondering if there was a way a wiki or obby could allow multiple folks to act as summarizer
15:34 [particle] i call it, "cooperation"
15:34 obra it'd certainly be interesting
15:34 obra nothingmuch: want to hack on your tools more to make collaborative summarization easyier?
15:35 [particle] i was thinking about how spreading out release manager role for parrot has improved things, and thought the summarys could benefit
15:35 obra sure
15:36 obra it makes lots of sense
15:36 bonesss is now known as bones`almoco
15:36 obra "With enough hands, all work is shallow"
15:38 gaal kudra++ # great job when she did have time
15:38 [particle] indeed
15:38 lichtkind obra i would contribute but defeinitvly have the time to do it alone
15:39 [particle] i read every post, and i still find the summaries quite valuable
15:40 Alias__ obra!
15:40 Alias__ You are totally the person I need to talk to right now
15:40 Alias__ http://use.perl.org/~Alias/journal/32762
15:40 obra Alias__: how can I help?
15:40 * [particle] wanted to talk to Alias__, but can't remember why
15:40 Alias__ Read that, then talk to me about commit bit
15:40 lambdabot Title: Journal of Alias (5735)
15:41 obra ok. setting up commitbit shouldn't take much work. sorry to hear about your repostorty. have you lost data?
15:41 masak pmurias: ah, now that you mention it, yes
15:42 masak so it's not really an error
15:42 Alias__ obra: Yeah :(
15:42 Alias__ obra: The actual CPAN code is all intact, but I'm still patching together some commercial stuff
15:42 Alias__ I mean, I have enough checkouts spread around they are ok, but I really don't want to lose the history
15:42 obra ok. was gonna say. I have a currentish mirror of the cpan code.
15:43 obra ...this is where having svk can be a lifesaver ;)
15:43 Alias__ I'm extra careful to always have 4-5 semi-current checkouts
15:43 Alias__ And fairly irregular proper backups
15:43 Alias__ Or should that be fairly regular irregular backups :)
15:48 gaal unfairly regular backups?
15:49 Alias__ heh
15:50 Alias__ Fortunately, MOST of the commercial code moved to DreamHost subversion, since for them having plain text passwords to edit doesn't hurt
15:50 Alias__ For the CPAN repo though, it demands the automated account management stuff
15:54 Alias__ ew
15:54 Alias__ One thing I might have lost though, is the master for my codegen system
15:55 Alias__ in fact, I haven't found an intact current checkout yet either
15:55 Alias__ managed to save the database thank god
16:01 avar 15:34:07 <[particle]> you know, i was wondering if there was a way a wiki or obby could allow multiple folks to act as summarizer
16:01 avar I belive svn should be used for this
16:01 avar host it in the pugs repos?:)
16:01 obra avar: yes, though tools may help a lot to prevent duplicated work
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16:02 avar *nod*
16:04 obra and we need someone to run the show
16:04 obra Are you interested in trying to speakhead ?
16:04 obra "spearhead"
16:10 Alias__ I prefer the term "spadehead"
16:10 Alias__ Because it means you're the one down in the shit doing something useful before anyone else realises there's actually something happening
16:10 Alias__ And then of course, while others are pouring the concrete, you sit back and lap up the applause :)
16:11 fglock re pugs repos: http://svn.pugscode.org/pugs/docs/summaries/
16:11 lambdabot Title: Revision 15771: /docs/summaries
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17:26 tene http://thorstenl.blogspot.com/2007/01​/thls-irssi-notification-script.html
17:27 lambdabot Title: thl: thl's irssi notification script [UPDATED], http://tinyurl.com/yqvbla
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17:52 weinig|away is now known as weinig
17:59 gaal @tell nothingmuch http://www.ultratechnology.com/meta2.html
17:59 lambdabot Consider it noted.
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18:15 pmurias forth seems bizarre to me...
18:15 allbery_b enh
18:16 allbery_b it is certainly "different", but not so much bizarre
18:16 allbery_b or do you consider postscript bizarre as well?
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18:19 broquaint I would say ColorForth qualifies as bizarre.
18:20 * allbery_b googles and finds himself agreeing
18:20 moritz allbery_b: well, postscript is more "special" than "bizzare" ;-)
18:25 broquaint Or should I say, 2color6Forth :)
18:25 broquaint Hrm, 3color5Forth
18:25 * moritz screams out in agony
18:25 broquaint That's the ticket.
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18:26 broquaint Ah no, 5color3Forth it should be according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colorforth
18:26 * broquaint gives up
18:27 SamB hmm, is colorforth one of the distinguished few languages with multiple sourceplanes?
18:27 broquaint Looks like it.
18:28 broquaint I imagine it's only a small macro away in perl6 ...
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18:32 * SamB supposes the sourcefiles are probably not actually stored in multiple planes
18:32 broquaint Doesn't look like it, no.
18:33 SamB but that was just a PC joke anyway ;-)
18:33 * broquaint watches it whistle over his head
18:34 SamB hmm.
18:34 * SamB thinks it may have been an incorrect PC joke
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18:37 polettix is now known as torquemada
18:37 moritz hey, we could color-code different contexts in p6 source code
18:37 moritz I mean just as syntax hilighting
18:38 torquemada is now known as polettix
18:42 tene map -> $n 9$n*2, @list
18:45 TimToady
18:45 tene use Color; class Foo { has $5private; has $public; has $publicisrw;
18:45 * TimToady 's mind is obviously blank...
18:47 TimToady but i do kinda like the context coloring idea
18:48 TimToady especially since with p6 it turns into lazy vs eager coloring
18:48 broquaint If Perl 6 were a colour what colour what it be?
18:48 allbery_b octarine :)
18:49 tene broquaint: it changes based on what packages you use.
18:50 Alias__ allbery_b, maybe bluer than that though... octamarine? :)
18:51 * moritz wonders how hard it would be to teach the vim perl6 syntax file to use different background colors for different contexts
18:51 TimToady I'm sure gaal would say Perl 5 is tan and Perl 6 is brown.
18:52 tene Why would gaal say that?
18:52 TimToady because brown is very møøse
18:53 tene Ahh.
18:53 [particle] i think perl6 would be grue
18:54 [particle] grue is the new bleen, you know.
18:54 TimToady would you rather have a cold grue or a cold bleen?
18:56 broquaint .oO( What does syntax-highlighted perl sounds like to synesthesics ... )
18:56 TimToady salty
18:57 TimToady well, actually, some of 'em might think it's pretty shweet.
18:58 TimToady synaesthesia is highly idiosyncratic...
18:58 [particle] perl 6: like pouring sugar on perl 5's wounds
19:01 pmurias what is/are synesthesics?
19:01 broquaint http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synesthesia
19:01 lambdabot Title: Synesthesia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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19:05 pmurias thanks
19:05 broquaint That should've been "synesthetes", I'd forgotten the appropriate term :/
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19:07 pmurias how does one write colorForth with a normal editor?
19:10 broquaint I think it can only be done within color 5color3Forth1 presently.
19:10 broquaint s/color //
19:11 SamB you could translate normalish forth, I think...
19:13 TimToady colorspace as syntax is just about as bad as whitespace as syntax...
19:14 broquaint Possibly a little unfair on the colour blind as well.
19:17 pmurias and the ascii shackled
19:17 SamB TimToady: I'd say it is worse
19:18 SamB since it (a) requires editor support and (b) is probably not easy to type
19:21 pmurias (c) it is more expensive to print
19:22 gaal ~/~ given $moose { when :house<7> {...} } ~/~
19:23 * obra ponders colorForth with a colorblindness filter. We could use sigils to denote colors...
19:25 gaal hey, happy equinox everybody!
19:26 moritz moose
19:27 gaal yes
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19:53 geoffb BTW, as I recall part of the reason for colorForth (aside from pushing yet more CPU work in the runtime -> compiler -> editor direction) is to get as much conceptually on the screen at once, when limited by Chuck's low vision.  Entire enlarged screen was 16 x 16 characters or some such, and he needed to fit a maximum amount of semantics within his editor window
19:53 svnbot6 r15772 | kudra++ | Summary complete
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19:55 kolibrie kudra++ # summary
19:55 lichtkind kudra++
19:56 geoffb kudra++ indeed
19:58 lichtkind audreyt: ping
20:02 tene kudra++
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20:30 * tene considers translating perlwm to Perl 6.
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20:47 ludan hola
20:50 fglock hola
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21:33 riffraff hi
21:37 tene Hi!
21:41 pmurias hi
21:52 offby1 aren't we jolly
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