Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2007-04-02

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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00:34 wolverian moritz, thanks, realclean worked.
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01:57 allbery_b ?eval 1
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01:58 Tene ?eval "foo bar" ~~ /<ident><ws><ident>/
01:58 evalbot_r15816 *** Cannot parse regex: <ident><ws><ident>␤*** Error: ␤Match.new(␤  ok => Bool::False, ␤  from => 0, ␤  to => 0, ␤  str => "", ␤  sub_pos => (), ␤  sub_named => {}␤)
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02:35 mugwump heh, I use that ␤ character in bots too
02:36 mugwump much better than ␊
02:37 * TimToady bows
02:40 mugwump So, whilst learning Te Reo Māori I had a "aha!" moment when I realised it has the same sentence structure as lojban, but uses named rather than numbered arguments to its verbs
02:41 TimToady sounds like a fairly normal case system
02:41 TimToady prepositions fill a similar role
02:42 TimToady I always thought lojban's numbered args were quite illogical
02:42 mugwump Insane!  How on earth are you supposed to intuitively grasp them
02:43 mugwump It would be more like a way for adults to speak over children
02:43 Tene TimToady: howso?
02:44 TimToady each verb has different slots, and there didn't seem to be much regularity to it.
02:44 TimToady but I haven't looked at it in a long time
02:44 Tene 'kay
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02:46 Tene I haven't really had that problem with it.
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03:23 xdg Is anyone here working with/on v6.pm?
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03:45 Tene mugwump: fwiw, lojban also has a big pile of named args.
03:46 mugwump yeah.  Actually I guess prepositions are a bit like particles
03:46 mugwump except in English there is no "focus particle"
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04:37 gaal @google lojban y combinator
04:37 lambdabot http://swhack.com/logs/2006-11-15
04:37 lambdabot Title: 2006-11-15 Swhack IRC Log
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06:58 Aankhen`` What is a buf8?
06:58 Aankhen`` Maybe I'm looking in the wrong places, but I can't seem to find an explanation of this. :-S My understanding is that it's a low-level type used for representing strings, but not much else...
07:00 QtPlatypus Aankhen``: I think its in S02.pod
07:01 Aankhen`` Seen it mentioned there, but I don't think it explained much.  I'll take a look at it again in case I missed it.
07:02 Aankhen`` Oh.  Durr.  There we go.  I didn't miss it, I just conveniently ignored it.
07:02 QtPlatypus And http://dev.perl.org/perl6/doc/design/syn/S09.html also covers it.
07:02 lambdabot Title: Synopsis 9: Data Structures - perl6:
07:02 Aankhen`` I suppose what I really want to know is, what does the 8 indicate?
07:03 dduncan 8 bits
07:03 Aankhen`` Does that mean a buf8 can only contain eight bits?
07:03 dduncan a buf is like a compact array
07:03 dduncan each array elem is 8 bits
07:03 Aankhen`` Ahhhh.
07:03 Aankhen`` It makes sense now.
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07:03 dduncan eg, like what a typical string is in C
07:03 Aankhen`` I kept looking at HTTP::Message's has buf8 $.content, and kept wondering how the content would fit into 8 bits.
07:04 * Aankhen`` looks sheepish.
07:06 QtPlatypus dduncan: However when moving buf8's to C we will still have to postpend a null?
07:06 Aankhen`` I think I'll take a stab at filling out Web::Tags a bit.
07:09 dduncan it depends how you would use it in C
07:09 dduncan I think the only things that care about null are certain string operators
07:09 Aankhen`` role Foo { our &bar = method (...) { ... }; } # is this the right way to put a dynamically created method in any class that .does(Foo)?
07:10 dduncan in any event, all Perl built-in types with lower-case names are meant to be like hardware-level unboxed types
07:10 dduncan in that their behaviour is architecture dependent rather than portable
07:10 dduncan but the trade off is you can get better speed or memory efficiency
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07:11 dduncan the Buf type is the boxed portable version of the compact array
07:11 dduncan ... that is mutable
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10:53 DarkWolf84 hi
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10:55 moritz hi DarkWolf84 ;-)
10:56 DarkWolf84 i made one simple echo server on p6
10:56 DarkWolf84 :)
10:57 moritz ?
10:57 moritz what's an "echo server"?
10:57 DarkWolf84 server repeats that u say :)
10:57 DarkWolf84 i know it's stupid
10:58 moritz DarkWolf84: ah, ok ;-)
10:59 DarkWolf84 but it contains the basics of one server
11:00 moritz DarkWolf84: commit it to examples/
11:00 DarkWolf84 ok
11:00 DarkWolf84 :)
11:00 moritz and add yourself to AUTHORS
11:00 DarkWolf84 ok
11:01 DarkWolf84 I'll clear the code first
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11:02 DarkWolf84 moritz, do u know way to find peer's address
11:03 DarkWolf84 something getpeerbyaddr in p5
11:03 moritz DarkWolf84: I can have a look at it once it's in the repository
11:03 DarkWolf84 someting like*
11:03 DarkWolf84 ok
11:03 moritz but now I'm off for lunch ;-)
11:04 DarkWolf84 ok
11:04 DarkWolf84 me too
11:20 svnbot6 r15817 | unobe++ | * fix util/version_h.pl to handle depot paths outside the default (//)
11:20 svnbot6 r15817 | unobe++ | * added documentation at top of util/version_h.pl
11:20 svnbot6 r15817 | unobe++ | * removed chdir_to_base() as base is determined with FindBin (../$Bin)
11:20 svnbot6 r15818 | unobe++ | * fixed broken smartlinks and added a few more (each() mentioned in S02)
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11:46 moritz re
11:52 Casan where are the examples/ found?
11:53 moritz Casan: in the SVN repository, http://svn.pugscode.org/pugs/examples/
11:53 lambdabot Title: Revision 15818: /examples
11:54 Casan ahh thanks
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11:55 moritz np
11:55 moritz Casan: do you want a commit bit?
11:56 Casan moritz: I do not yet feel that I am qualified. but thanks. will need to do some more experimenting first.
11:57 moritz Casan: ok, as soon as you wish to contribute an example (or something else) ask here for a commit bit, we give it away freely ;-)
11:58 Casan ahh ok
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12:39 TimToady @tell dduncan many system calls require null terminated strings
12:39 lambdabot Consider it noted.
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13:42 DarkWolf84 I think something is going wrong. When I compiled perl5 with threads pugs fail to compil.
13:42 DarkWolf84 compile*
13:43 moritz I have perl, v5.8.8 built for i486-linux-gnu-thread-multi
13:43 moritz and it works
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13:44 moritz DarkWolf84: did you try "make realclean" before building pugs?
13:44 DarkWolf84 I'm trying now to recompil
13:44 DarkWolf84 i deleted all files
13:45 DarkWolf84 and run subversion to checkout
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14:12 DarkWolf84 collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
14:12 DarkWolf84 Build failed: 256 at util/build_pugs.pl line 504.
14:12 DarkWolf84 make: *** [pugs] Error 2
14:12 DarkWolf84 the same error
14:12 DarkWolf84 :(
14:12 DarkWolf84 maybe it's not because threads
14:19 DarkWolf84 nad it says that some refs r not defined
14:20 DarkWolf84 like p5embed.c:(.text+0x6cd): undefined reference to `Perl_Gsigfpe_saved_ptr'
14:26 moritz DarkWolf84: which p5 version do you use?
14:26 DarkWolf84 w8 a moment
14:27 DarkWolf84 5.8.8-i686-linux-thread-multi
14:28 DarkWolf84 maybe is package problem
14:28 DarkWolf84 coz I 'm with gentoo
14:29 DarkWolf84 and maybe some pakages r broken
14:32 moritz ... and gentoo is generally broken *duck*
14:32 andara DarkWolf84: looks like a linker error. Maybe the build script doesn't find your libperl.so
14:32 DarkWolf84 ok
14:33 andara usually it's under /usr/lib/perl5/5.8.8/i486-linux, but if you built it yourself it might be somewhere else
14:36 moritz andara: or just under /usr/lib ;-)
14:37 DarkWolf84 i think i found the problem
14:37 DarkWolf84 i have perl and libperl tarball
14:38 DarkWolf84 maybe I have to recompile the libperl
14:40 andara DarkWolf84: you can try to grep your existing libperl.so for Perl_Gsigfpe_saved_ptr. If it's there, the lib is probaly ok
14:41 DarkWolf84 the problem is that I have recompiled perl with threads
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14:42 DarkWolf84 and only perl
14:42 DarkWolf84 not all programs depend on it
14:47 moritz bad idea ;-)
14:48 DarkWolf84 i know
14:48 DarkWolf84 I found my mistake
14:49 DarkWolf84 and found the pakage what I need
14:50 DarkWolf84 :)
14:51 DarkWolf84 /usr/lib/libperl.so.1.5.8
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14:55 DarkWolf84 that's it
14:55 DarkWolf84 :)
14:55 DarkWolf84 thanl u
14:55 DarkWolf84 thank u*
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17:40 DarkWolf84 moritz, I'm ready
17:40 svnbot6 r15819 | darkwolf++ | Update AUTORS and add echoserver.pl to examples
17:40 DarkWolf84 this is my first svn commit :)
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17:42 gnuvince DarkWolf84: good job :)
17:46 DarkWolf84 I'm *realy* happy now
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17:52 DarkWolf84 btw I don't know the way to find the remote host address
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17:53 DarkWolf84 anyone know how to do this in perl6?
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17:58 perlmonkey2 DarkWolf84, what are you committing?
17:58 DarkWolf84 just one example
17:59 DarkWolf84 simple server
17:59 perlmonkey2 very cool
17:59 DarkWolf84 which repeats anything u say
17:59 perlmonkey2 simple socket server then?
17:59 perlmonkey2 and client?
17:59 DarkWolf84 no only server
18:00 DarkWolf84 I used telnet to test it
18:00 perlmonkey2 probably will wind up in the Camel Perl 6 book :P
18:00 DarkWolf84 I don't have this book
18:01 moritz DarkWolf84: use "err die" instead of "or die"
18:01 DarkWolf84 ok
18:01 DarkWolf84 shuld I change it
18:01 perlmonkey2 does "err die" imply implicit exception handling?
18:02 moritz iirc not
18:02 moritz but it's the "more idiomatic" way ;-)
18:02 DarkWolf84 ok next time I'll use err
18:05 moritz hey, perl6.vim syntax hilighting doesn't hilights async as a key word
18:06 DarkWolf84 lol
18:07 DarkWolf84 gedit don't hilight many commands
18:08 DarkWolf84 perl6 is evolving every day
18:08 moritz DarkWolf84: gedit probably uses perl5 syntax hilighting
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18:08 DarkWolf84 right
18:09 perlmonkey2 So in Perl 6 failures don't return 0 but instead return ()?
18:09 DarkWolf84 what is ()?
18:09 perlmonkey2 undefined
18:10 moritz perlmonkey2: I don't know.. in one of the synopsis it says "TODO: research error handling system" or something similar...
18:10 perlmonkey2 'err' is '//' while 'or' is '||'
18:10 moritz perlmonkey2: looks as if it's not fully specced
18:11 DarkWolf84 i didn't know the word for // is err
18:11 moritz perhaps foo err bar is short for try { foo }; on error bar
18:11 perlmonkey2 that would be VERY cool.
18:11 moritz perlmonkey2: what?
18:11 DarkWolf84 no more 0 problems
18:11 DarkWolf84 :)
18:11 perlmonkey2 your idea bout it being short for a try/error block.
18:12 moritz DarkWolf84: actually that could be solved by letting "err" check for defined/undef and not for true/false
18:12 DarkWolf84 i know
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18:12 DarkWolf84 i forgot that
18:14 DarkWolf84 just p5 just habbit
18:14 DarkWolf84 just p5  habbit*
18:15 DarkWolf84 in perl5 undef is like 0
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18:16 moritz DarkWolf84: even in p5 you can test with defined() if something is undef or just 0
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18:19 DarkWolf84 I really have to change this in my version or pugs will throw me an error
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18:21 DarkWolf84 next update will make the things right
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18:32 geoffb @seen audreyt
18:32 lambdabot audreyt is in #haskell and #perl6. I don't know when audreyt last spoke.
18:32 eden_c @seen fglock
18:32 lambdabot I saw fglock leaving #perl6 6h 28m 57s ago, and .
18:33 moritz @seen lambdabot
18:33 lambdabot Yes, I'm here. I'm in #happs, #ai, #haskell-soc, #figs, #montevideolibre, #parrot, #scannedinavian, #unicycling, #jtiger, #perl6, #oasis, #darcs, #ghc, #gentoo-uy, #gentoo-haskell, #haskell.dut, #
18:33 lambdabot haskell.hac07, #haskell-overflow, #haskell-blah and #haskell
18:33 gaal that would have read funnier if it were #
18:33 gaal haskell-overflow
18:33 moritz ;-)
18:35 geoffb OOC, what are overflow channels for?  Do IRC servers have per-channel user limits or something?
18:35 [particle] why is there a freenode #parrot? that should go away, imo
18:36 moritz geoffb: if the scrolling speed is limited by your bandwith, you need an overflow channel ;-)
18:36 moritz [particle]: I think it's very confusing to have two #parrot channels ;)
18:36 geoffb moritz: OK, try that again, that makes no sense to me.
18:37 moritz geoffb: wasn't serious at all.
18:37 geoffb moritz: oh
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18:37 moritz geoffb: when so many people write in a channel that your internet connection is not fast enough, then you need to split it up ;-)
18:37 geoffb We just need to put a bot on #parrot here that pings people who join every 30 seconds and says "No, seriously, you're on the wrong network."
18:40 Jedai Hi, to get an account on feather.perl6.nl what do you need to have done ?
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18:41 moritz Jedai: read http://www.mail-archive.com/perl6​-language@perl.org/msg20060.html
18:41 lambdabot Title: Perl development server
18:42 Jedai Thanks :)
18:45 diotalevi /who #parrot
18:45 diotalevi stupid client.
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19:45 riffraff hi
19:45 Tene Hi!
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