Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2007-04-05

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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00:24 TimToady geoffb: default is graphemes, but pugs currently does codepoints.
00:24 TimToady the pragmas are probably "use codes" and "use graphs"
00:25 TimToady to go with "use bytes"
00:27 geoffb TimToady: right, thanks
00:29 moritz pugs doesn't implement the "use {codes,graphs}" though
00:29 moritz at least not now ;-)
00:30 TimToady it could be taught to treat 'use codes' as a no-op for futureproofing, I suppose
00:30 moritz when I define my own classes, how do I override how the stringify (or behave in arbitrary contexts)?
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00:51 polettix ?eval 2i
00:51 evalbot_r15829 0.0 + 2.0i
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04:52 * sili inspects BRYCE W PORTER
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05:42 devbot6 planet6: Audrey Tang: YAPC::Asia Day 2 slides. <http://pugs.blogs.com/pugs/2​007/04/yapcasia_day_2_.html>
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05:54 gaal teaching pugs to noop 'use codes' is simply 'touch lib/codes.pm', no?
05:55 gaal (as a noop)
05:56 audreyt sure.
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05:57 * audreyt skipped conf+hackathon; ->airport in 1hr to fly back to .tw tonight
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07:26 fridim Hi there.
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07:27 moritz hi
07:28 fridim Is there an editor which supports perl6 syntax for color?
07:29 integral look in the pugs source tree at util/perl6.vim if you use vim
07:29 moritz fridim: vim
07:29 fridim thanks.
07:30 moritz if not, write a syntax file for $yourFavoriteEditor and commit it ;-)
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07:33 moritz pugs> ?"/etc/passwd" ~~ :e
07:33 moritz Bool::False
07:33 moritz that's... astonishing
07:33 moritz ;-)
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07:53 VanilleBert (list
08:05 lumi_ )
08:05 moritz *g*
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08:41 devbot6 dev: Ticket #14 (enhancement updated): More information in pugs -V output. <http://dev.pugscode.org/ticket/14#comment:1>
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09:34 moritz is the construct  'want ~~ Num' supported?
09:35 moritz ?eval sub f { return "foo" if want~~Str; return 42 if want~~Num; return "blubb";} say f; say ~f; say +f;
09:35 evalbot_r15829 OUTPUT[foo␤foo␤0␤] Bool::True
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09:42 lumi_ Is parrot a dependency for pugs?
09:43 lumi_ is now known as lumi
09:43 moritz lumi: only if you compile it to embed parrot
09:43 moritz s/lumi/lumi_/ # sorry ;-)
09:43 pasteling "evalbot_r15829" at 194.145.200.126 pasted "Pugs build failure" (10 lines, 418B) at http://sial.org/pbot/24012
09:43 lumi But otherwise not, right?
09:43 svnbot6 r15830 | moritz++ | t/builtins/want.t: want.Item -> want.item, want.List -> want.list
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09:44 moritz lumi: right
09:44 lumi moritz: I changed my nick, sorry for the confusion :)
09:44 moritz lumi: ok ;-)
09:44 * moritz ignores nick changes and other stuff
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10:49 svnbot6 r15831 | unobe++ | * Stab @ closing Trac ticket #14: Configuration variables
10:49 svnbot6 r15831 | unobe++ |   * removed variables: archname, bin, exe_ext, installarchlib, installprivlib, installsitearch, installsitelib, pager, prefix, scriptdir
10:49 svnbot6 r15831 | unobe++ |     * can easily be put back in: look at t/unspecced/config.t and util/PugsConfig.pm
10:49 svnbot6 r15831 | unobe++ |   * added variables: cc, embedded, ghc, regex_engine, uname (uses POSIX::uname), perl5_path (was perl5path)
10:49 svnbot6 r15831 | unobe++ |   * updated t/unspecced/config.t
10:49 svnbot6 r15831 | unobe++ |   * changed lib/Perl6/MakeMaker.pm, inc/Module/Install/Pugs.pm, and util/PugsConfig.pm to allow build arguments to Makefile.PL
10:49 svnbot6 r15831 | unobe++ | * Makefile.PL now generates current.build.yml to store build info for util/PugsConfig.pm to load on subsequent calls
10:50 riffraff hiù
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10:51 devbot6 dev: Ticket #14 (enhancement closed): More information in pugs -V output. <http://dev.pugscode.org/ticket/14#comment:2>
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11:51 lichtkind Leibsle: servs
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13:43 spinclad hi all
13:43 moritz hi spinclad, hi * ;-)
13:44 spinclad i'm trying to svn switch from svn.openfoundry.org to svn.pugscode.org:
13:44 spinclad Thu Apr 05 09:12:09 12$ svn switch --relocate http://svn.openfoundry.org/pugs http://svn.pugscode.org/pugs
13:44 lambdabot Title: Revision 15820: /
13:44 spinclad svn: The repository at 'http://svn.pugscode.org/pugs' has uuid '12242aa7-dc21-0410-817b-c41c31cd50c7', but the WC has 'c213334d-75ef-0310-aa23-eaa082d1ae64'
13:45 spinclad is that anything like how i should do this?
13:45 moritz spinclad: do you have significant changes in your local svn copy?
13:45 spinclad hi moritz
13:45 moritz spinclad: if not, just rm -rf it, and do a new checkout
13:46 moritz spinclad: or you could try --no-auth-cache (just a guess)
13:47 spinclad possibly a few in my third-party/judy stuff from last year; i'll just save that and check out fresh as you say.
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13:47 spinclad thanks
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14:58 Leibsle lichtkind, guguck :)
14:58 lichtkind ahh
14:58 Leibsle lichtkind, sorry for my delayed reaction. been a bit busy lately
14:58 lichtkind nop
14:58 Leibsle lichtkind, how is your perl fetish doing? :P
14:58 lichtkind du bist wo du bist :)
14:59 lichtkind what do you mean?
14:59 Leibsle well. you even write wiki articles about perl. so you must have a fetish :P
15:01 Leibsle maybe similar to buu and his bot fetish :)
15:01 * Leibsle covers
15:02 lichtkind its a kind of fetish true but i make it for fun fetish is always an action done instead of a true longing
15:03 Leibsle you are right. i might better speak of "fascination" instead of a "fetish"
15:14 lichtkind Leibsle: but you are partially right if i know there is something to do and i want to be busy i do write in wikipedia :)
15:14 lichtkind but i love the way of thinking behind perl yes
15:14 * Leibsle wants to hire lichtkind für einen 1 euro job :P
15:14 lichtkind why?
15:15 Leibsle cause i need lots of help with my poor perl skills
15:15 Leibsle i would like to port a project
15:16 moritz what kind of project?
15:16 Leibsle a community portal
15:17 lichtkind we have already perl monks
15:17 lichtkind and perl-community.de
15:17 Leibsle its licenced under BSD with the advertising clause. so i would have to spam for the community that made it. but the community stinks. its full of abusive, immature criminals
15:18 Leibsle not a perl community, a community for general topics also
15:18 lichtkind its human :)
15:18 lichtkind aah
15:18 moritz lumi: porting communitity portal = porting the software that drives the portal? *g*
15:18 moritz sorry, Leibsle, not lumi
15:19 Leibsle i wonder what could happen to me if i use a software licenced under the old BSD license and break the advertising clause
15:19 moritz there are far too many nicks here that start with l ;-)
15:19 Leibsle moritz, yep
15:19 Leibsle is now known as patfr
15:19 patfr ok! :P
15:19 patfr ewww. 3 nicks with "pa" and 2 with "pat"
15:19 moritz patfr: that's bad ;-)
15:20 moritz we should introduce prefix free nick dispatching or something ;-)
15:20 patfr yep
15:21 patfr how about OwlEye?
15:21 moritz 12 nicks starting with m, only one with "mo" - yes ;-)
15:22 moritz can nicks start with a  number?
15:22 weinig joined perl6
15:22 * moritz would like his name to /kick
15:22 moritz or /ban
15:22 moritz ;-)
15:23 patfr is now known as \kick\ban
15:23 \kick\ban :P
15:23 moritz \kick\ban: wrong slashes ;-)
15:23 \kick\ban pft :P
15:25 moritz today's build system changes (pugs) completely broke the building of debian packages
15:25 \kick\ban is now known as OwlEye
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15:30 OwlEye brb
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15:40 * OwlEye hugs lichtkind
15:40 lichtkind OwlEye: leibsle?
15:40 OwlEye yep!
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15:53 lichtkind OwlEye: weise wie ne eule?
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15:55 OwlEye lichtkind, will ich sein. ja :D
15:56 moritz .oO(um dann Eulen anch Athen tragen zu könne?)
15:57 lichtkind moritz: ich trage leibsle nirgends hin
15:59 moritz ;-)
16:01 OwlEye bin auch zu schwer!
16:01 * OwlEye is an Owl with a big belly
16:02 OwlEye counting 190 pounds
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16:19 lichtkind :)
16:24 OwlEye :)
16:25 OwlEye for some mysterious reason, the old TV card's BT878 chip messes with NIC chipsets like DEC41113 and RTL80129. after some time of watching TV the NICs go dead
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16:32 allbery_b interrupts?
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16:35 OwlEye nope, linux seems to handle them properly
16:36 lichtkind OwlEye: what exactly community sites you plan ?
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16:40 OwlEye something social, something positive, something with structure but still allowing freedom
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17:31 lichtkind OwlEye: even esoteric?
17:32 OwlEye lichtkind, not that free! :P
17:32 OwlEye just kidding
17:33 OwlEye i would not mind if people open esoteric channels as long as they manage them in a social and peaceful way
17:33 lichtkind i mean esoteric not in the sense od secracy
17:33 lichtkind most esos i know are very peacefull
17:34 lichtkind its more the that scientologist who start the fights
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17:44 lichtkind OwlEye: you have to come to wikipedia to see this, several people become really aggressive in irrational when you express yourself as alternative to  what they think is science in any way
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17:52 OwlEye lichtkind, i can only copy that for _every_ group of people that is bigger than 2 people
17:54 lichtkind OwlEye: its not that simple because people who refuse to think for themself or not have courage enough to stand for themself obviously flow in  mainstream
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17:55 lichtkind audreyt: are you back?
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17:57 OwlEye lichtkind, its not the "thinking" that is the problem. its an emotional thing. if something differs from the own opinion, their entire universe gets in unballance. and it makes them violent
17:58 lichtkind OwlEye: true but iy your concise enough about the true reasonse of your believe its easier to understand and accept other concepts and perceptions
17:58 lichtkind s/iy/if/
17:59 OwlEye lichtkind, i think it depends a lot on your self confidence, if you are able to allow different concepts in life than your own one
17:59 lichtkind OwlEye: yeah thats another aspekt of that
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18:02 moritz http://www.dilbert.com/comics/dilb​ert/archive/dilbert-20070313.html <-- that fits very well to your discussion ;-)
18:02 lambdabot Title: Dilbert Comic Strip Archive - Dilbert.com - The Official Dilbert Website by Scot ..., http://tinyurl.com/22kdns
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18:04 lichtkind its a bit hidden agression in ignoring people, i prefer to understand :)
18:05 moritz ;-)
18:05 lichtkind :)
18:06 * moritz has accepted that he can't understand most people (and quantum mechanics ;-)
18:06 lichtkind OwlEye: its also the way of contemplation, if your more an exclusivly rational  is for you we agains them, but thats is illusion since i never was anti science
18:07 lichtkind OwlEye: im pro science understood right
18:07 lichtkind moritz: you can understand anything you like just let it happen :)
18:07 moritz lichtkind: maybe you can, but I can't ;-)
18:08 lichtkind moritz: wheres the difference between us?
18:08 moritz lichtkind: I don't know... I don't understand you ;-)
18:08 lichtkind haha
18:09 moritz lichtkind: no, honestly.. if you mean "be able to reproduce it" by "understanding", I can understand most stuff
18:09 lichtkind moritz: no i mean understand in the way that you really grok it
18:09 moritz but I think I'll never know _why_ an electron is wave and particle at the same time - although I know that it must be that way
18:10 * OwlEye scratches head
18:12 lichtkind moritz: i can tell you :)
18:13 moritz lichtkind: really? go right ahead
18:13 lichtkind moritz: only scientist who dont fully understand use 2 models prallel :)
18:13 lichtkind all is energy
18:14 lichtkind but its organized in several steps
18:14 lichtkind its like when you ride into atoms
18:14 lichtkind quarks strings and so on
18:14 lichtkind thtas all models
18:14 lichtkind buts in facts its all geometra
18:14 lichtkind geometry
18:15 moritz is it all energy, or all geometry?
18:15 * moritz is confused
18:15 lichtkind simple rules but the whole is still to complex to be full understood by scientist,  gallileo understood a good portion
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18:16 lichtkind sorry i vant type so much
18:16 moritz ;-)
18:16 lichtkind maybe we meet at perl workshop or so
18:17 moritz personally I think that the universe can't be explained only by simple rules because it _is_ not simple
18:17 lichtkind but in the end its all about geometry and dimensions
18:17 lichtkind mathematicans call it algebraism
18:18 lichtkind modern M-Theory speaks about up to 27 dimensions
18:18 lichtkind thats is really heavvy
18:18 lichtkind sometimes i think i can understand 5 dimentions
18:18 [particle] she's not heavy, she's my universe.
18:18 moritz lichtkind: just think of it as "n dimensions", and then project it down to 3+1
18:19 lichtkind [particle]: what your talking about ?
18:19 [particle] nm
18:19 lichtkind moritz: no thats cheating :)
18:20 moritz lichtkind: but it helps ;-)
18:20 lichtkind [particle]: i thought your talking about a woman :)
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18:21 moritz lichtkind: you don't really think that the guys working on that theory can visualize >10 dimensions? dimensions are just another parameter to them - but an important one
18:21 autark http://www.tenthdimension.com/flash2.php
18:21 lambdabot Title: Imagining the Tenth Dimension - A Book by Rob Bryanton
18:22 lichtkind moritz: of course that all faces dont seems that smart :)
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18:23 lichtkind autark: thanks
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18:34 lichtkind autark: i know that ss theorie speaks from 10 dimension but gravity still makes trouble :)
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19:37 gnuvince Reddit people, show some love for audreyt: http://programming.reddit.com/info/1fkt3/comments
19:37 lambdabot Title: YAPC::Asia 2007 Jifty presentation by audreyt (delivered by Jesse Vincent) (470  ...
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19:42 svnbot6 r15832 | unobe++ | * added config vars back (probably what broke building debian packages for moritz, but didn't see any usage of them under debian/)
19:45 devbot6 dev: Ticket #14 (enhancement reopened): More information in pugs -V output. <http://dev.pugscode.org/ticket/14#comment:3>
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23:18 OwlEye lichtkind, you there?
23:18 lichtkind no
23:18 OwlEye haha
23:18 lichtkind ups
23:19 lichtkind whazzap?
23:22 OwlEye buubot, eval: 1+1
23:22 buubot 2
23:22 OwlEye lichtkind, see
23:23 OwlEye just cant make up smart perl code to test :P
23:23 lichtkind buubot: eval: [+] 3,4,5
23:23 buubot Number found where operator expected at eval line 1, near "] 3"  (Missing operator before  3?) Error: syntax error at eval line 1, near "+]"  
23:23 lichtkind its perl5
23:24 moritz buubot: eval while(fork()) { fork() }
23:24 moritz no answer...
23:25 lichtkind manno
23:25 moritz buubot: eval system "cat /etc/passwd"
23:25 moritz lichtkind: you won't say that it's an unsecured eval()?
23:26 lichtkind moritz: no i wanted say that OwlEye  wont be pleased when somebody chrashes his server again
23:26 OwlEye buubot is not on my server :) master buu owns it
23:27 snoop0x7b lichtkind: is that eval really... uh... that ... bad?
23:27 snoop0x7b that it will do anything anyone wants
23:27 moritz buubot: eval 1
23:27 buubot ?eval 1 = 7;
23:27 evalbot_r15829 is now known as evalbot_r15831
23:27 evalbot_r15831 Error: Can't modify constant item: VInt 1
23:27 lichtkind snoop0x7b: ask OwlEye , its his bot
23:28 snoop0x7b 19:24 < moritz> buubot: eval while(fork()) { fork() }
23:28 OwlEye lichtkind, no no. its not mine. i made a copy of it once. but buubot is buu's bot
23:28 snoop0x7b well since it's still alive
23:28 snoop0x7b it didn't do that
23:28 snoop0x7b :p
23:28 snoop0x7b probably anyhow
23:28 moritz snoop0x7b: I noticed that
23:28 snoop0x7b :P
23:28 lichtkind yes
23:29 moritz buubot: eval system("pwd")
23:29 snoop0x7b buubot: eval system("ls")
23:29 moritz it seems to have at least a bit security built in
23:30 moritz buubot: eval print join ",", @INC;
23:30 snoop0x7b buubot: eval print "I'm ugly"
23:30 moritz seems like buubot ignores me... for good reaseon
23:31 snoop0x7b ?eval print "moo"
23:31 evalbot_r15831 OUTPUT[moo] Bool::True
23:31 snoop0x7b apparently that eval bot likes me
23:31 snoop0x7b :p
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23:32 moritz snoop0x7b: that should be "moose", though ;-)
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23:49 unobe hi moritz
23:49 unobe is debian package building again?
23:51 moritz unobe: I haven't updated yet, but I manged to build 15831 - although I don't know what went wrong in the first place
23:52 moritz unobe: tomorrow I'll build HEAD and tell you again, now I'm off for sleep++ ;-)
23:52 moritz sorry for the fuzz
23:54 unobe alright, sleep well

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