Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2007-04-18

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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03:33 veritos hello, are there any people here other than Juerd who can create Feather accounts?
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03:36 agentzh great! feather's cron has submitted its first auto-smoking report to the smoke server:
03:36 agentzh http://m19s28.vlinux.de/iblech/stuff/pugs-s​mokes/pugs-smoke-6.2.13-r15983-linux-normal​--1176857459-5061--18662-18007-655-2017-716​-10--b9a5af879a5e05d0a678f6963a25f41a.html
03:36 lambdabot agentzh: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them.
03:36 lambdabot Title: TAP Matrix - Wed Apr 18 00:32:22 2007 GMT, http://tinyurl.com/28blt5
03:36 geoffb agentzh++
03:36 agentzh :)
03:38 agentzh it only took 84.35 min.
03:38 agentzh (shorter than i expected)
03:39 geoffb Well, that's good I suppose
03:39 agentzh gaal: gotcha
03:39 agentzh geoffb: *nod* :D
03:40 agentzh geoffb: are you familiar with sh?
03:40 geoffb Bourne Shell, you mean?
03:40 agentzh i'm having a problem with wrapping ./pugs with a sh script.
03:40 agentzh yup
03:40 veritos geoffb: what's the deal?
03:41 geoffb some ... ask away, I may know
03:41 agentzh is it correct to write "./pugs $*" to do that.
03:41 agentzh ?
03:41 geoffb veritos: huh?
03:41 veritos geoffb: i was asking what your question was.
03:41 geoffb veritos: er, I didn't have one
03:42 agentzh geoffb: see http://svn.pugscode.org/pugs/util/limited_pugs
03:42 * geoffb is looking
03:43 revdiablo agentzh: ./pugs "$@"
03:43 agentzh revdiablo: thanks :)
03:43 agentzh ./pugs $* is giving me troubles.
03:44 agentzh so is ./pugs "$*".
03:44 revdiablo $* will do word splitting after the fact
03:44 revdiablo "$*" will quote all the args as one big argument to pugs
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03:44 revdiablo "$@" is a special case that Does The Right Thing
03:44 agentzh revdiablo: fair enough :)
03:44 geoffb agentzh: what revdiablo said
03:44 geoffb sorry for the slow response
03:45 agentzh geoffb: np :)
03:45 * agentzh is happy.
03:47 agentzh thanks for the help!
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03:48 revdiablo agentzh: No problemo. FWIW you can usually get pretty good shell help in #bash
03:48 agentzh okay :)
03:49 geoffb agentzh: A silly little trick for seeing how sh is going to mangle your args ... replace the program you intend to call off to with: perl -e 'print map ">$_<\n", @ARGV'
03:49 geoffb So:
03:49 geoffb nice -n5 perl -e 'print map ">$_<\n", @ARGV' "$@"
03:49 geoffb ./test.sh "foo bar" bax
03:49 geoffb >foo bar<
03:49 geoffb >bax<
03:49 agentzh cool
03:50 geoffb With $* or $@ without quotes, the foo and bar end up on separate lines
03:50 agentzh right
03:50 geoffb (And "$*" gives just one line with everything together)
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03:51 revdiablo set -x can be mighty helpful too
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03:55 geoffb ... and don't forget 'set -' to turn off 'set -x' when it's in the way.  Not a very obvious off-switch
03:57 agentzh k
04:05 svnbot6 r15985 | agentz++ | use "$@" instead of $*, as per revdiablo++ and geoffb++
04:08 svnbot6 r15986 | agentz++ | util/limited_pugs - updated the comments a bit
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04:17 agentzh Juerd: smoking at 01:02:25 +0200 looks okay?
04:18 offby1 geoffb: wouldn't "set +x" turn off "set -x"?
04:18 offby1 and better: put the "set -x", and the stuff which you want it to affect, in parens, like so: (set -x; some_command; another command )
04:19 geoffb offby1: suppose so.  As I mentioned before, my sh fu is rusty, so I only remember bits and pieces
04:20 geoffb I find that within the first three lines of any sh script, I'm ripping at my eyeballs and reaching for Perl
04:20 offby1 I once had a shell script grow to a couple of screensful without morphing into perl.  I called in a naturalist from the American Museum of Natural History, and he wrote a paper about it.
04:21 offby1 Normally my threshold is about ten lines.
04:21 geoffb My main use of shell is pipes and simple loops at the command line
04:22 geoffb A friend of mind writes multi-thousand line apps in ksh.
04:22 offby1 to each they own.
04:22 pasteling "evalbot_r15985" at 194.145.200.126 pasted "Pugs build failure" (355 lines, 20.3K) at http://sial.org/pbot/24296
04:23 offby1 in theory I'd love to write in scsh, but it just doesn't come up that much ... plus I've been in Windows-land most of my working life, so...
04:23 geoffb We once raced to see who could implement a piece of functionality fastest -- him in ksh, or me in Perl.  We tied, even though his had twice as many lines.  And we both had exactly one bug -- the *same one*.
04:24 offby1 odd indeed.
04:24 offby1 I'd give you the award, since shorter code is worthwhile
04:24 offby1 unless it was really cryptic.
04:24 geoffb I almost lost my tenuous grip on sanity when he should me his date and time manipulation libraries
04:25 geoffb Nah, it was pretty clean.
04:25 geoffb I'm pretty rigid about clean code most of the time.
04:25 geoffb er, *when he showed me
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04:28 agentzh Oh, ext/Perl6-Perldoc/t/*.t all failed in the report. i think they are not Perl 6 at all.
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04:33 agentzh diakopter: Perl6-Perldoc is in the wrong directory? ext/ is supposed to contain Perl *6* modules only.
04:35 agentzh diakopter: the pugs smoking mechanism always tries to run these Perl 5 tests with ./pugs.
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04:53 svnbot6 r15987 | agentz++ | feather/syn_index.html - mentioned the daily auto-smoking on feather
05:05 svnbot6 r15988 | agentz++ | * explained the HARNESS_PUGS environment and util/limited_pugs when doing Pugs smoking
05:08 agentzh now it's recommended to run "HARNESS_PUGS=util/limited_pugs make smoke" for Pugs smoking on *NIX :)
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05:54 obra Happy Birthday Audrey!
05:57 * geoffb makes party noises (spinning clackers, blow-yoyos, etc.)
05:57 geoffb Hippo Birdie Two Ewes, audreyt!
05:57 jrockway <insert clever ascii art cake>
06:01 gaal }:)  }:)  }:) w00t (:{  (:{  (:{
06:03 agentzh >>> 生日快乐!<<<
06:04 * agentzh wonders if he has got the encoding right ;)
06:05 audreyt you did :) thanks :)
06:05 lambdabot audreyt: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them.
06:06 agentzh :D
06:06 agentzh audreyt: my auto-smoking facility on feather is my birthday present to you :)
06:06 audreyt oooh :D
06:06 audreyt thanks
06:07 agentzh my pleasure!
06:08 audreyt birthday started not-so-happy though :/ last night ingy got in a car crash and is still in ER -- not fatal but spine/lungs/wrist all damaged -- more info later tonight
06:09 audreyt (brb)
06:09 geoffb yikes, he was on here answering questions just a few hours ago!
06:09 * agentzh nods.
06:10 * geoffb wishes ingy a speedy recovery, or at least as speedy as possible
06:10 * agentzh too.
06:10 * spinclad three
06:11 * spinclad looks for a spell to undo such damage
06:11 geoffb if only ...
06:13 dduncan that time is it? ... yes, Happy Birthday then
06:13 dduncan I hope ingy recovers
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06:16 dduncan oh, and hey, it looks like someone else actually added a feature to one of my modules ... Locale-KeyedText in this case ... that's a first!
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06:19 dduncan a pleasant first ...
06:19 dduncan thank you Franck Cuny
06:24 nothingmuch audreyt: happy moose day
06:25 geoffb & # blessed sleep
06:25 nothingmuch if you're in touch with ingy by phone or something wish him an easy moose
06:25 audreyt ok
06:25 gaal @}-'-s to ingy
06:25 lambdabot Unknown command, try @list
06:25 nothingmuch gaal: ?
06:25 gaal mooseflowers
06:25 nothingmuch ah
06:25 nothingmuch ++
06:26 gaal lambdabot doesn't know about them because she hasn't been to the hospital
06:26 gaal I wonder where she went on her recent vacation though
06:27 gaal What do folks here use for merges in svk? vimdiff is kinda clunky with four windows
06:28 Alias__ moose day?
06:29 Alias__ omg, ingy hurt?
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06:30 Alias__ audreyt: Do we have much information, and is there anything we can do to help?
06:32 audreyt Alias__: will have more info tonight. currently nothing
06:32 Alias__ ok
06:33 Alias__ Lets hope that's our allocation of tragic evens for 2007 used up
06:33 Alias__ And that he recovers
06:33 audreyt indeed
06:33 Alias__ It does seem to be 1 per year, roughly
06:38 gaal I'd say the actual figure is higher.
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06:44 * agentzh goes back to school &
06:44 svnbot6 r15989 | agentz++ | limited_pugs - ulimit -t 600 now
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06:44 jrockway yeah, violence in the world is at a local maximum right now
06:44 jrockway i hope ingy is ok
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07:28 svnbot6 r15990 | Darren_Duncan++ | ext/QDRDBMS/ : made dbms_config param completely unregulated by Interface; any arg type it may be given is fully Engine-determined
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07:46 svnbot6 r15991 | agentz++ | added links to markstos++'s post on smartlinks to t/README and util/smartlinks.pl
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10:23 moritz is anybody planning a PHP backend for perl6?
10:24 nothingmuch unlikely
10:24 moritz then all lame "PHP only" web hoster would be usefull again ;-)
10:27 nothingmuch i suppose, but deployment of perl 6 code on xsuch hosts is probably many harvests away
10:27 nothingmuch i mean, it's plausible as a long term goal, but I doubt anybody is really investing time in it right now
10:29 moritz nothingmuch: I thought in terms of long term goals, yes ;-)
10:30 nothingmuch ah
10:30 nothingmuch i dunno then ;-)
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10:31 nothingmuch are you considering trying for that?
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10:31 moritz no
10:32 moritz I'm not a good coder, I don't think I'm qualified to write any backend
10:32 moritz and I'm constantly trying to improve, but it's still a long way
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10:35 nothingmuch you can try to write support code for the php side
10:35 nothingmuch if you're interested that could be a nice practice project as well
10:35 nothingmuch and who knows, it might be useful
10:36 nothingmuch by support code I mean things like an object representing junctions
10:36 nothingmuch or implementations of simple builtins
10:36 nothingmuch kind of like the Perl6:: namespace on the CPAN
10:36 moritz if I loved PHP that would be a nice idea ;-)
10:37 nothingmuch ah, i see ;-)
10:37 nothingmuch can't say i lbame you
10:38 moritz ;-)
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10:47 avar I wish conway's Perl6:: stuff would be more useful. Both the rules and perldoc modules work as a source filter on your program, which is fine if that's what you want but maybe you just want a rules API or a pod6 parser..
10:47 avar Should be split up IMHO:)
10:48 Alias__ he has that problem often
10:48 Alias__ Hook::LexWrap is both lexical wrapping code, plus an additional weird syntax that only works in 5.8+
10:48 Alias__ I'd love to be able to use the same lexwrap code without the syntaxy stuff
10:49 Alias__ I sometimes wonder if Damian has ever learned any magic
10:49 Alias__ Because a lot of his code seems designed to support his talks in such a way as to always give him a Prestige
10:50 Alias__ Whether or not it would have been more structurally sound to split it up
10:50 avar Ya, Perl6::Rules is a rules->p5 rx compiler which would be useful with a Parse::Yapp like interface, but then it's a source filter too for things like $1 => $0
10:51 Alias__ I've been temped to rewrite Hook::LexWrap a few times, since he refuses to make it back-compatible
10:53 svnbot6 r15992 | franck++ | changes suggested by Darren_Duncan++
10:54 avar But OTOH the Perl6:: namespace seems to pretty much only be source filters to boolt p6-ish stuff on p5
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10:56 Alias__ pretty muich
10:57 avar Well Perl6::Perldoc::Parser has a /normal/ interface though
11:05 Alias__ I needs to
11:05 Alias__ Since I think it's getting used for real at some point

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