Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2007-04-26

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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01:00 pasteling "evalbot_r16126" at 194.145.200.126 pasted "Pugs build failure" (315 lines, 17.2K) at http://sial.org/pbot/24510
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01:06 agentzh Perl6::Perldoc updated to v0.0.5 on feather.
01:07 agentzh added TOC to S26 produced by smartlinks.pl
01:07 agentzh auto-smoke on feather is working fine these days :)
01:07 agentzh school &
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05:16 gaal fglock: re names. "Generate" (as in Template::Generate")? "Inhabit" (as in type inhabitation)? uh, "Represent"? :)
05:27 spinclad "a local habitation and a name"
05:29 spinclad "Prosper" (as in Tempest::Mage)? "Leer" (as in King::Lir)?
05:30 spinclad "Puck" (as in Midsummer::Night::Hockey)?
05:34 spinclad "Unmatch"?
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05:57 gaal Matchmaker :)
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07:57 dduncan ?eval my $bar = 1 ?? Bool::True !! Bool::False;
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07:57 evalbot_r16129 Error: ␤Unexpected "$bar"␤expecting "=", "::", dot, ":", "(", term postfix, operator, ",", "!!" or context
07:57 dduncan pardon my naivety, but what is wrong with that expression?
08:01 dduncan Pugs doesn't seem to like ??!! and :: in the same statement
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10:43 agentzh Damian is definitely not committing updates for Perl6::Perldoc to the Pugs repos.
10:43 agentzh sync'ing the versions starts to be a pain :(
10:44 moritz agentzh: then remove it
10:44 moritz agentzh: or talk to damian
10:45 agentzh *nod*
10:46 agentzh will do
10:46 agentzh the latter
10:53 agentzh mail sent :)
10:53 masak @tell dduncan nothing wrong with the expression as far as I can see. maybe commit a test for it in t/operators/ternary.t?
10:53 lambdabot Consider it noted.
10:54 agentzh sigh. svnbot is off :(
10:54 moritz agentzh: for quite a while I might add
10:54 moritz agentzh: do you know who runs svnbot6?
10:54 agentzh moritz: audreyt
10:55 moritz damned
10:55 agentzh not sure how to start it.
10:56 agentzh my cron no longer uses audreyt's pugs tree since a few processes are messing things around there :(
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11:28 agentzh Oops!
11:28 agentzh Juerd: i'm sorry, i've something stupid to feather.
11:28 agentzh a process is eating all the CPU resource of feather.
11:30 gaal ghc 6.6.1 released
11:31 agentzh gaal: feater is down due to my mistake.
11:31 agentzh :(((
11:31 agentzh gaal: i can't even login.
11:31 gaal send Juerd mail?
11:32 agentzh k
11:32 agentzh juerd@convolution.nl ?
11:35 gaal afaik yes
11:35 agentzh sent
11:36 gaal lunch&
11:36 agentzh a friend of mine made a bad joke on me :(
11:37 agentzh Apologies to all other feather users.
11:37 moritz agentzh: that's live ;)
11:37 moritz agentzh: those who work make mistakes - now we know that you worked ;)
11:37 agentzh hopefully Juerd will not kill me :(
11:41 lumi moritz: For the logger, maybe email obfuscation (although that interacts badly with Perl code, sometimes)
11:42 moritz lumi: I don't know if that's worth the effort
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11:43 agentzh school again &
11:47 lumi moritz: Trivially off the top of my head, s/(?<=\w)\@(?=\w)/<img src="at.gif">/g
11:47 lumi Prolly could be done better
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11:56 moritz lumi: testing...
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12:05 moritz lumi: works locally, but commits must wait until feater is up again ;)
12:05 rindolf Hi all.
12:05 rindolf Hi moritz
12:05 moritz hi rindolf ;)
12:06 rindolf Once again I'm being sucked into the productivity black hole of IRC.
12:06 juerd_ moritz: That may take a while.
12:06 juerd_ Days if we're unlucky.
12:06 moritz what happend?
12:06 juerd_ Someone used up all memory
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12:23 masak juerd_: why days?
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12:28 juerd_ masak: It costs not only fuel, but also time to get there.
12:28 juerd_ And I won't have a few hours free time for a few days.
12:28 juerd_ There's still a chance that it'll come up by itself, by the way.
12:29 moritz it responds to ping
12:29 juerd_ Yes. It's probably slowly filling virtual memory and swapping in and out a lot
12:29 juerd_ When virtual memory is full too, it'll start killing processes.
12:29 moritz let's hope it kills the right processes ;)
12:29 juerd_ Right :)
12:29 juerd_ Not init, ssh, and things like that
12:30 moritz how much swap space is available?
12:30 juerd_ 1 GB
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12:31 fglock hmm - pugs can load the MiniPerl6::Grammar module already
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13:21 fglock I've got a problem with kp6-mop - I made a "P6opaque" object that stores the kp6 objects; but kp6 can't see P6opaque, it only sees the higher-level object
13:21 fglock much like VAR($x) and $x
13:22 fglock will need something like NATIVE($obj) to get to P6opaque
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13:22 fglock meeting &
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13:45 diakopter wb feather
13:46 Juerd Found a friendly security person at the datacentre who didn't mind rebooting it for me
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16:36 Limbic_Region any sendmail experts around?  Specifically, sendmail 8.13 on Solaris 9.  I am trying to figure out how to prevent sendmail from making AAAA (IPv6) queries of the FQDN passed in helo/ehlo
16:36 offby1 yikes
16:36 Limbic_Region explicitly setting the DaemonPortOptions and Resolver option doesn't have any affect
16:36 Limbic_Region and since this is extremely OT, I would be happy to take the conversation to /msg land
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16:40 moritz .oO(write a perl wrapper around a dns proxy, then you're more on topic ;-)
16:41 * offby1 writes a perl 6 wrapper to provide him hot stock tips
16:42 TimToady all you need to do is read your spam to get all kinds of hot stock tips.
16:44 moritz even knowing that stocks are advertised in spam is a bad sign - because it means sombody is reading his spam ;)
16:44 avar Limbic_Region: compile without ipv6 support?
16:49 rindolf Hi TimToady, offby1, avar, Limbic_Region
16:50 avar wrarr
16:50 * moritz feels left out ;)
16:51 Limbic_Region avar - yeah, that's something I would rather avoid
16:52 rindolf moritz: I already greeted you.
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17:02 moritz rindolf: I was just kidding ;)
17:02 rindolf moritz: OK. :-)
17:03 * rindolf is now Perl->BSD'ing the Test::Run code.
17:03 rindolf It's pretty mindless, but it gives me a chance to refactor the code.
17:03 rindolf Mindless but annoying.
17:04 * rindolf sighs
17:12 TimToady anyone have a clue why it takes 20 cpu minutes to do a fairly simple m:g// in list context on an 80K string?
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17:17 kolibrie TimToady: that's a long time.  Did it use up memory also?
17:17 TimToady >250M
17:18 kolibrie I've had memory issues with PCR, but usually the cpu usage is acceptable
17:19 TimToady m:g:P5/(?xms) ^ (?: rule | token | regex | method ) \s+ ( \w+
17:19 TimToady )/
17:19 TimToady P6 version doesn't seem significantly different in performance
17:20 TimToady (the string in question is, of course, STD.pm :)
17:21 kolibrie if P5 takes that long, I have no idea, PCR usually leaves those pretty much intact, I think
17:21 TimToady no, I'm pretty sure P5 would rip through it rather quickly
17:21 TimToady didn't test it though.
17:22 TimToady I think something generating the list is probably copying lists back and forth on every match, maybe.
17:22 * kolibrie suspects it has something to do with the 'g' (but is mostly just guessing)
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18:32 moritz @seen audreyt
18:32 lambdabot audreyt is in #haskell and #perl6. I don't know when audreyt last spoke.
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19:31 rindolf Hi all!
19:31 rindolf moritz (and all): do you have any additions for http://www.shlomifish.org/perl-oo​p-systems-n6eWb7==LK/summary.txt ?
19:31 rindolf audreyt: here?
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19:42 moritz rindolf: I don't have any idea, but I'm not a p5 wizard at all
19:42 rindolf moritz: OK, no problem.
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20:02 fglock I guess I'll take a week or so for planning on kp6 and the other compilers, rather than implementation
20:02 fglock due to combinatorial explosion of possible paths
20:04 kolibrie fglock: cool
20:04 [particle] any(*)
20:04 * kolibrie hopes to look at that again soon
20:05 fglock any(*) is only good if you have multiple processors :)
20:06 [particle] unless you're working with very small values of whatever :)
20:07 fglock it's like playing chess, you have to explore the design space (or something like that)
20:17 moritz fglock: how many compilers have you written so far?
20:17 moritz not only p6 ones, that is ;)
20:18 [particle] lrep, v6, mp6, kp6..*
20:18 [particle] i feel like i'm missing something, too
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20:20 fglock oh, and PCR
20:20 nwc10 When will we get Perl 6? I just found myself writing something that would not be an error in Perl 6
20:21 [particle] ah, right.
20:21 avar perl mp6-perl5-boot.pl lib/MiniPerl6/Perl5/Match.pm > lib5-new/MiniPerl6/Perl5/Match.pm
20:21 avar Can't call method "emit" without a package or object reference at mp6-perl5-boot.pl line 33, <> line 298.
20:21 dduncan in the short term, I'm looking forward to when audreyt will get that solid 2 days desired to integrate the new metamodel into pugs
20:21 lambdabot dduncan: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
20:21 avar perl mp6-perl5-boot.pl lib/MiniPerl6/Perl5/Runtime.pm > lib5-new/MiniPerl6/Perl5/Runtime.pm
20:21 avar Can't call method "emit" without a package or object reference at mp6-perl5-boot.pl line 33, <> line 172.
20:21 fglock moritz: a forth, a pascal, a macro-assembler, some DSLs
20:22 [particle] fglock: did you build the pascal compiler the way the original was built--self-hosting?
20:22 fglock avar: Perl5/Match.pm is part of the perl5 runtime (it's perl5 code)
20:22 fglock [particle]: in turbo pascal, yes
20:23 fglock but not really self-hosting
20:23 avar fglock: Yes, but what does it all mean basil?
20:23 avar fglock: is that normal?
20:23 [particle] fglock: iirc the original was built with a subset of the language, much like mp6/kp6
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20:23 moritz quite an impressive collection ;)
20:23 fglock avar: sorry?
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20:27 fglock avar: see util/build-perl5.sh - Match.pm and Runtime.pm are simply copied to lib5-new/
20:29 fglock [particle]: re pascal - I was working on an air-conditioner controller project, and the only language available was 8096 assembler
20:31 moritz so you wrote your own compiler in order not to have to write it in assembler?
20:31 moritz that kind of reminds me how larry came to writing perl ;)
20:31 fglock yes, it was more fun, and I had plenty of time until the hardware were ready, anyway
20:32 fglock brb (switching to other building) &
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20:41 fglock I tried to port the kp6-perl5 OO to perl6, but I got a problem with "P6opaque"
20:44 fglock because I can't tell P6opaque.meth from $Obj.meth
20:45 fglock the 'dispatch' slot in P6opaque is occupied by the Object's dispatch
20:45 fglock :P
20:47 spinclad so as a proxy it's completely transparent, you can't get a hold on it?
20:47 fglock re p6 compilers - forgot "pil-run"
20:47 fglock spinclad: yes
20:48 fglock just like $var.STORE calls .STORE in the $var's value
20:49 spinclad i suppose this includes .HOW and such, so meta introspection won't see it either
20:51 fglock no, same problem
20:53 fglock VAR() in kp6 works like this:
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20:54 fglock $var.dispatch( $meth, $var )  # calls method on $var.FETCH
20:54 spinclad (thinking) problem could be conflating levels: implementation level != meta level, maybe?
20:54 fglock $var.dispatch_VAR( $meth, $var )  # calls method on $var itself
20:55 spinclad $obj.dispatch_CONTAINER(...) maybe, in a parallel thought?
20:56 * araujo just received 'Types and Programmings Languages - B.C. Pierce'
20:57 fglock spinclad: yes, that was my first idea
20:57 fglock araujo: I'd like to read that some day
20:59 araujo fglock, it looks good definitely
21:05 fglock spinclad: but this would require a language extension, rather than being a 'plain perl6' solution (the VAR macro already exists in the language)
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21:08 fglock &
21:11 spinclad (thoughts:)
21:11 spinclad implement $var.dispatch(...) as $var.FETCH.dispatch
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21:11 spinclad implement $var.dispatch_VAR(...) as $var.dispatch
21:12 spinclad implement $obj.dispatch(...) as $obj.OPEN.dispatch(...)  # follows link from P6opaque
21:13 spinclad implement $obj.[WHAT?](...) as $obj.dispatch(...)  # like lstat, acts on the P6opaque itself
21:16 spinclad or is the problem that at source level you have no way to express the last form?
21:16 spinclad (/thoughts)
21:24 spinclad P6opaque is from perl5/Perl6-ObjectSpace, right?
21:28 spinclad [food and song] &
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22:06 nothingmuch ingy: benewed on your freedom
22:06 nothingmuch i hope you get well soon
22:06 nothingmuch and post your bone fixer hack on www.instructables.com
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23:17 fglock I've got the P6opaque problem fixed :)
23:18 fglock I made an implementation in pugs, but feather doesn't  let me upload
23:21 pasteling "fglock" at 200.203.83.212 pasted "P6opaque for pugs" (56 lines, 1.1K) at http://sial.org/pbot/24536
23:22 fglock it works like this:
23:22 fglock - create a p6opaque using $P6opaque.new
23:23 fglock - set the fields with $p.set( $data )
23:23 fglock oops - $p.set( 'field', $data )
23:24 fglock - set the dispatcher field with $p.set( '_dispatcher', $dispatcher )
23:25 fglock - done - $p now responds to whatever your MOP implements
23:26 fglock s/fields/slots/
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