Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2007-04-30

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

| Channels | #perl6 index | Today | | Search | Google Search | Plain-Text | summary

All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:07 jisom joined #perl6
00:24 lumi_ joined #perl6
00:31 perlbot joined #perl6
00:44 perlbot joined #perl6
01:09 nperez joined #perl6
01:10 dolmans joined #perl6
01:15 amnesiac joined #perl6
01:25 chylli joined #perl6
01:39 takesako___ joined #perl6
01:47 thoughtpolice joined #perl6
01:47 chylli left #perl6
02:03 mako132_ joined #perl6
02:03 TimToady @tell ruz .{@keys}:p is currently specced to do what you want, though it may end up as .:pairs{@keys} instead.
02:03 lambdabot Consider it noted.
02:04 TimToady @tell ruz however, it's not yet implemented either way
02:04 lambdabot Consider it noted.
02:04 TimToady @moosages
02:04 lambdabot cmarcelo said 9h 6m 58s ago: Just read chromatic meeting minutes. And I'm stuck at understanding Haskell->P5 bridge yet. Maybe I should play directly with PCR... Makes me wonder, Pugs used PGE/PCR
02:04 lambdabot instead of Parsec because convenience or because Parsec limitations?
02:04 lambdabot cmarcelo said 9h 5m 3s ago: Also in the minutes you hint about some clear goal/objective for people impl. S05. Could you explain this better?
02:07 thoughtp1lice joined #perl6
02:08 thoughtpolice changed the nick to thoughtp1lice
02:21 dolmans joined #perl6
02:25 REPLeffect joined #perl6
02:40 rho joined #perl6
02:41 CindyLinz joined #perl6
02:41 rho hi all. newbie question ahead:
02:42 rho is it possible to embed Haskell programs into Perl6?
03:05 DoctorMach joined #perl6
03:28 spinclad rho: no, neither in Perl6 spec-land nor in pugs (haskell additions to pugs would happen among its haskell internals, not the language it parses).
03:30 spinclad though the pugs team is getting ready to reimplement much of it in Perl6, this still won't mix haskell and Perl6 code directly, IIUC.
03:33 spinclad i think with some effort this could change, as with v6 you can now switch back and forth between Perls 5 and 6, but this is pure speculation on my part.
03:37 jisom joined #perl6
03:45 rho spinclad: thx, so this will have to be in a module.
03:59 scsibug joined #perl6
04:11 gaal spinclad: you can, in fact, do this in pugs if you have hs-plugin: say eval 'concat ["m", "oo", "se"]' :haskell
04:11 gaal but there's no "real" ffi
04:21 SubStack joined #perl6
04:26 DoctorMach left #perl6
04:34 spinclad gaal: thanks, now i know (or better, now i'll look and then i'll know)
04:40 SubStack joined #perl6
04:42 spinclad right, i've even seen that before.  maybe i won't forget so soon this time.
04:44 spinclad rho: see the brief note in INSTALL.
04:45 spinclad after that, ask around again.
05:09 rissy joined #perl6
05:20 rfordinal joined #perl6
05:21 dolmans Perl6's OO system has a large collection of MOP feature, but i want to ask: dose i still can manipulate the sysmbol table, scalar, hash, array, code?
05:23 dolmans i think yes.
05:23 Aankhen`` You can access any package's symbol table like you would a hash, IIRC.
05:24 dolmans good.
05:25 Aankhen`` Ah, here we go.  See S02, under "Names", starting from the second bullet point.
05:25 Aankhen`` Or you could search directly for this: To do direct lookup in a package's symbol table without scanning, treat the package name as a hash:
05:30 dolmans sound's good. so even not using the WHAT, HOW, etc., i can still do some reflection jobs, like in 5. In language design, if you provide some utility in kernel, then you must leak some flexibility. IMO
05:30 rho spinclad: ad loading Haskell modules: thx, I will try that.
05:34 Alias__ joined #perl6
05:35 Aankhen`` Sure.
05:35 Aankhen`` Although I don't know why anyone wouldn't want to twiddle with metaclasses. <G>
05:37 gaal dolmans: doing reflection via symhash manipulation may not work in classes that use a different metamodel.
05:37 Aankhen`` Different metamodel?  Okay, now I'm scared. :-(
05:38 gaal sure, some of the point of having a Real MOP<tm> was to make this stuff pluggable
05:38 Aankhen`` And hi!, BTW, gaal. ^_^
05:38 gaal there are at least two application targets for this
05:38 gaal hello! };)
05:38 dolmans gaal: don't understand that yet
05:38 gaal I'll explain:
05:39 Aankhen`` I'm still a novice to metaobjects, and my understanding is basically in terms of Moose, so... would that be like changing the metaclasses used in a Moose class, or at a higher meta-level?
05:39 gaal first, consider use java:some.java.thing
05:39 * Aankhen`` considers.
05:40 gaal that loads a java class; the bridging to the foreign methods and objects is via the MOP
05:40 Aankhen`` Right.
05:40 gaal naturally, you can't just munge a symhash there
05:40 Aankhen`` Uh huh.
05:40 dolmans ok, i got this, symtables cannot cope with alien object.
05:40 gaal the other application is desmonstrated by a database mapper
05:41 gaal *demonstrated
05:41 gaal suppose I want to implement something like Class::DBI
05:41 dduncan oh, pray tell
05:41 Aankhen`` Hehe.
05:41 gaal what I can do in Perl 6 is do put most of my logic in the metamodel.
05:41 * Aankhen`` watches dduncan's ears perk up.
05:42 dduncan I'm interested in anything related to databases, up to some point
05:42 gaal for example, the accessors for members trigger database updates
05:42 gaal but of course I want to make this efficient
05:42 Aankhen`` Aye.
05:42 gaal so I need freshness flags
05:42 dduncan what kind of efficient?
05:42 gaal dduncan: simplest kind, for the purpose of this explanation
05:42 gaal eg.
05:42 dduncan eg, efficient for a programmer to write?
05:43 gaal not do a db get on every member read if it's fresh
05:43 gaal I'm not focusing on database here really, bear with me a sec
05:43 gaal I want for starters this code:
05:43 dduncan well, in any event, I'm going back to other things ...
05:44 gaal $studentcount = $classroom.students; $studentcount = $classroom.students; to only hit the DB once
05:44 * Aankhen`` nods.
05:44 dduncan makes sense
05:45 gaal one way to do this is for Classroom to have a private %FRESH memeber
05:45 gaal but with flexible metamodel, I could make every memeber that maps to a db column have a freshness property of itself
05:46 gaal forgive the clumsiness of terminology here -- better talk with nothingmuch or stevan for the correct names, but suppose we have
05:46 gaal "has Int $students"
05:46 dduncan it could also help if there are smarts such that, eg, if we know the class size is small, then just fetch all the student data right away, then we don't have to query each time whether it is fresh
05:47 gaal instead of creating a simple %Classroom::<students> slot
05:47 gaal create an object with .value and .fresh attribs
05:47 scsibug joined #perl6
05:48 gaal dduncan: certainly that can be done there too
05:48 dduncan but a more general application of what I'm saying ...
05:48 gaal also foreign data loading, and perhaps the kind of join optimizations I actually know nothing about :-)
05:49 dolmans i want to ask is a normal private attribute still rides in symhash?
05:49 dduncan is that it can be useful to fetch more than was asked for if the smarts are in place to guess there is a good chance that some closely related data may soon be asked for too ... it is more efficient to fetch it all in one chunk rather than several smaller ones
05:49 gaal so if you're following: any class that has MyGrandORM for its metamodel does not just have a value in the slot field
05:49 dduncan sort of like a buffering issue
05:49 gaal it instead has an object that encapsulates the value and anything else my ORM wants to know about it
05:50 gaal so direct, naive symhash manipulation would be wrong!
05:50 gaal the thing is that although metamodels are pluggable, there is a common interface to them
05:51 dduncan actually, if this whole discussion is just to teach about the metamodel, I'll shut up as what I"m saying is irrelevant then
05:51 gaal so for regular programming, $obj.fld calls the appropriate accessors (get/set)
05:54 dolmans gaal: partially understood. i conclude that i cannot use naive symhash to really reveal the object's interface, but all the things is still in symhash?(alien object excl.)
05:54 gaal_ joined #perl6
05:55 dduncan speaking of the metamodel, I look forward to actually using it, so hopefully audreyt will soon get the time needed to integrate it into Pugs ... I think the statement was a solid 2 days required
05:55 gaal_ and $obj.methods is more robust than p5 grep { defined lassroom::{$_}{CODE} } keys lassroom::
05:56 gaal_ hehe, cgiirc++ but it's eating chars
05:57 gaal_ that should be $obj.meta.methods but .methods a shortcut.
05:58 gaal_ dolmans: not necessarily!
05:58 TimToady $obj.HOW.method or $obj.^methods
05:58 TimToady dolmans: packages are for public interface only
05:58 gaal_ if for some reason MyGrandORM decided not to use the symhash, it could
05:59 gaal_ oops, thanks for the correction, TimToady
05:59 dolmans TimToady: that mean that the private attribute `has $!attr' is not in symhash?
05:59 TimToady that is correct
06:00 TimToady (and it isn't in P5 either)
06:00 TimToady if by symhash you mean symbol table hash
06:00 dolmans in P5 i even don't know private
06:00 gaal_ hee, could be abbreviated even further to sysh
06:00 TimToady in P6 the standard layout is "P6opaque", and not even the class itself is supposed to worry about the layout
06:00 dolmans yes, i got the symhash word from gaal
06:01 gaal_ which has "sheesh" for a mnemonic
06:01 gaal_ I'd better grab some coffee and get [back] to work
06:01 gaal_ moose!
06:02 TimToady anyway, this is spelled out in S12 in gruesome detail
06:03 TimToady most of the time users of P6 won't even know there's a metamodel behind it.
06:06 gaal_ and to perhaps give a good answer to your original question, dolmans, reflection is now *easier*.
06:09 dolmans gaal_: i know that, but my view is: if the designed provide some easier but non-general mechanics, you lose some flexibility. see p5, it has no kernel level's mop, but through symtables, you can do many fantastic things.
06:21 rissy joined #perl6
06:22 gaal_ dolmans: you can do many fantastic things in Perl 6 as well :) if there's something specific you think is impossible, do tell
06:35 goban joined #perl6
06:35 dolmans gaal_: i don't know, i just guess, i think i should draw back the stupid guess.
06:37 iblechbot joined #perl6
06:48 devogon joined #perl6
07:05 franck__ joined #perl6
07:18 gaal joined #perl6
07:32 BooK joined #perl6
07:37 Aankhen`` Am I correct in deducting from S12 that $class.bless(...pairs...) creates a P6opaque object?
07:53 elmex joined #perl6
07:54 buetow joined #perl6
08:09 amnesiac left #perl6
08:22 the_dormant joined #perl6
08:24 pbuetow joined #perl6
08:40 goban left #perl6
08:40 dduncan left #perl6
08:54 the_dormant joined #perl6
08:57 andara joined #perl6
09:00 REPLeffect joined #perl6
09:22 ayrnieu joined #perl6
09:35 polettix joined #perl6
09:39 macroron joined #perl6
10:07 buetow joined #perl6
10:10 rindolf joined #perl6
10:26 ruoso joined #perl6
10:52 penk joined #perl6
10:55 Loro_ joined #perl6
11:05 penk joined #perl6
11:06 nothingmuch joined #perl6
11:07 ecl joined #perl6
11:09 ecl left #perl6
11:16 DarkWolf84 joined #perl6
11:52 larsen_ joined #perl6
11:53 mako132_ joined #perl6
12:14 andreum joined #perl6
12:19 iblechbot joined #perl6
12:19 Manaus joined #perl6
12:24 jerrylee joined #perl6
12:25 sstipic joined #perl6
12:27 sstipic left #perl6
12:30 the_dormant joined #perl6
12:31 VanilleBert joined #perl6
12:32 jferrero joined #perl6
12:32 Manaus left #perl6
12:35 cognominal joined #perl6
12:37 Grrrr joined #perl6
12:40 idiotmax joined #perl6
13:00 turrepurre joined #perl6
13:11 larsen_ joined #perl6
13:19 * offby1 has his employer do all his deducting
13:19 larsen__ joined #perl6
13:21 rindolf Hi all.
13:24 QtPlatypus Hi rindolf.
13:25 Juerd Who maintains trac on feather?
13:25 rindolf Hi QtPlatypus
13:25 Juerd It needs to be optimized.
13:29 Yaakov Juerd: Is the eval bot still MIA?
13:30 Juerd I have no idea
13:31 Juerd I admin the server, not the individual project related services
13:34 * Juerd has disabled trac (dev.pugscode.org) until he knows what it's used for, and how it's going to be fixed
13:35 Juerd CGI-scripts that use up to a minute of CPU time are broken.
13:35 kolibrie Juerd: audreyt set up trac for project management
13:36 Juerd audreyt: ping
13:38 kolibrie http://pugs.blogs.com/pugs/2007/02/pugscodeorg_ser.html
13:38 lambdabot Title: Pugs: Pugscode.org services.
13:39 Juerd Ah, useful.
13:40 Juerd I've been killing off the backup process because trac.cgi's collectively used up 80% of the CPU, and it slowed down the backups so much that they started overlapping.
13:41 Juerd That has to stop, because backups are way more important than any single service.
13:42 Juerd (Suggestions for lighter backups are welcome, as long as things are compressed on feather's end and stored compressed on a remote ssh server)
13:58 deq` joined #perl6
14:11 [particle] joined #perl6
14:20 VanilleBert left #perl6
14:26 svnbot6 joined #perl6
14:27 vel joined #perl6
14:31 diakopter wb svnbot6
14:32 * diakopter hugs devbot6
14:38 electrogeek joined #perl6
14:53 specbot6 joined #perl6
14:56 evalbot_r16148 joined #perl6
15:02 araujo joined #perl6
15:03 veritos joined #perl6
15:08 diakopter wb, specbot6
15:08 diakopter wb, evalbot
15:09 [particle] joined #perl6
15:21 REPLeffect joined #perl6
15:26 ruoso joined #perl6
15:28 jerje joined #perl6
15:29 iblechbot joined #perl6
15:43 bonesss joined #perl6
15:47 rlb3_work joined #perl6
16:04 kanru joined #perl6
16:22 veritos joined #perl6
16:26 veritos morning
16:27 bones_ joined #perl6
16:31 veritos Juerd: i think i accidentally infinite-looped my bashrc :(
16:31 veritos can you restore it since i can't log in?
16:33 veritos never mind that
16:33 veritos just logged in with dash instead
16:36 justatheory joined #perl6
16:39 franck__ joined #perl6
16:41 justatheory_ joined #perl6
16:43 buetow joined #perl6
16:47 andara left #perl6
16:51 jhorwitz joined #perl6
17:11 veritos joined #perl6
17:30 lisppaste3 joined #perl6
17:32 rindolf joined #perl6
17:32 riffraff joined #perl6
17:32 riffraff hi
17:33 veritos heya
17:33 riffraff sorry the ubernoob question: but how do I do a replace-not-in-place in perl6 ?
17:33 riffraff I mean,. a sytring substitution
17:34 jrockway ?eval my $foo = "world"; "Hello, $foo."
17:35 veritos do { local $str = $str; $str =~ s/yada/foo/; say $str }?
17:35 evalbot_r16148 "Hello, world."
17:35 jrockway evalbot_r16148: awake?
17:35 veritos ?eval do { local $str = $str; $str =~ s/yada/foo/; say $str }?
17:35 evalbot_r16148 Error: ␤Unexpected "?"␤expecting statement modifier, term postfix or operator
17:36 PerlJam riffraff: the same way as in perl5
17:36 riffraff PerlJam, this would be a useful info I actually knew perl5 :)
17:36 [particle] subst
17:37 PerlJam riffraff: or use the OOP interface.  $copy = $str.substr($pat,$replacement);
17:37 riffraff the only way I understand is making a copy and use that
17:37 riffraff but that changes $str in place
17:37 PerlJam riffraff: ($copy = $str) =~ s/foo/bar/;  # perl5
17:37 riffraff I mean. substr
17:37 Tene riffraff: maybe give an example of what you want to do?
17:37 lambdabot Tene: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them.
17:37 PerlJam riffraff: It shouldn't.
17:38 Tene lambdabot: thanks
17:38 riffraff mh maybe I misrecall, I'll check again
17:39 riffraff oh and I should update opugs so I'll check in tewnty minutes, it seem :)
17:40 allbery_b joined #perl6
17:40 PerlJam riffraff: $str.=subst($par,$rep);  # is the one that will do the in-place substitution.
17:41 rindolf Hi PerlJam
17:41 PerlJam Is it just me or is "subst" far too close to "substr"?
17:41 rindolf PerlJam: from my impression you seem very protective of Perl 6.
17:41 PerlJam rindolf: protective?
17:41 PerlJam I'll take that as a compliment ;-)
17:41 ruoso joined #perl6
17:41 rindolf PerlJam: yes, whenever someone says something bad about it.
17:42 rindolf PerlJam: you tell him that everything's alright.
17:42 PerlJam rindolf: oh.  I'm just trying to bring balance to the universe.  There are far too many people nay-saying perl6.
17:43 rindolf PerlJam: BTW, is Parrot now GPL+Artistic2?
17:43 riffraff perljam: I think one of the two was not implemented last time I checked, which is two weeks ago, but I'm compiliung and will whail later :)
17:43 PerlJam riffraff: entirely possible.  I haven't kept up with pugs.  (pshaw!  Who needs an actual implementation anyway? ;-)
17:45 PerlJam rindolf: I don't think it's Artistic2 just yet.
17:45 rindolf PerlJam: http://perl.net.au/wiki/Perl_6_-_Common_Criticisms
17:45 rindolf PerlJam: hmmm...
17:45 rindolf Lately I daresay I'm a bit unhappy from the edits people make to the articles I start on http://perl.net.au
17:45 lambdabot Title: Perl 6 - Common Criticisms - PerlNet
17:45 lambdabot Title: Main Page - PerlNet
17:46 crashmatrix joined #perl6
17:47 Psyche^ joined #perl6
17:48 PerlJam rindolf: do you know of any die-hard perl5 fans who are also die-hard perl6 naysayers?
17:48 rindolf PerlJam: I don't know.
17:50 jjore-w PerlJam: They exist. What of it?
17:51 PerlJam jjore-w: I'd like to interview them.
17:51 avar perl5-porters :)
17:51 PerlJam avar: heh
17:51 jjore-w Go look on perlmonks.org then.
17:52 jjore-w Post a "News" thing requesting that they contact you.
17:53 cognominal joined #perl6
17:53 PerlJam I've been loathe to do that for fear of the fanatics (too much noise)
17:53 PerlJam I'm looking for clear, strong voices with good arguments against perl6.
17:55 PerlJam (well, *I* don't have to think they're good, just that they need to and have reasonable evidence to support their position)
17:55 jjore-w So filter out the noise.
17:55 sapir joined #perl6
17:55 bonesss changed the nick to bones_
17:56 lichtkind joined #perl6
17:58 Patterner changed the nick to Psyche^
17:59 cognominal joined #perl6
18:04 cognominal joined #perl6
18:12 cognominal joined #perl6
18:16 bonesss joined #perl6
18:16 deq`_ joined #perl6
18:21 qmole are there pugs binaries for os x anywhere?
18:26 TimToady not officially. historically audreyt has made some available from time to time, but lately I think most of the osx folks have been rolling their own from the sources
18:27 TimToady I'm not an osx folk myself...
18:28 TimToady and it may be that most of the osx folks who hang out here are asleep right now.
18:28 qmole ah ok
18:28 qmole i've found something at http://www.unobe.com/packages/, giving that a shot
18:28 lambdabot Title: Index of /packages/
18:29 TimToady only about 270 revisions behind...  :)
18:31 qmole that's ok, i'm at least 5000 revisions behind :)
18:32 TimToady always something to be said for improvement...
18:32 rhandom joined #perl6
18:33 justatheory joined #perl6
18:35 deq` joined #perl6
18:48 geoffb Speaking of audreyt, anyone know if the current coding hiatus is likely to be a long one?
18:49 fglock joined #perl6
18:52 fglock recent hacks: I tried out the several regex engines around, and I found that working on PCR is the most productive way for me to get STD parsed;
18:52 fglock PCR is easily ported to mp6 after it works
18:53 TimToady and then backend to P6?
18:53 fglock yes, s/mp6/p6/
18:53 TimToady that is, to P6/pugs
18:54 fglock I think that if I were starting directly with p6, I would get lost in parsing algorithms
18:55 fglock there is a parser module in ext/, but I couldn't make it work
18:55 TimToady geoffb: I don't think anyone knows.  audreyt was making some hopeful noises last week, but my guess is that the family obligations are somewhat open-ended.
18:56 geoffb That sucks.  :-(
18:56 * geoffb wishes audreyt a speedy recovery from family.  ;-)
18:56 fglock we can get a usable parse tree with PCR
18:57 jisom joined #perl6
18:58 TimToady meanwhile the rest of us are peddling as hard as we can, but it seems that we all make better progress when audreyt is able to hang out
18:59 fglock so I'm kind of implementing 'cheat' into PCR/v6.pm
18:59 geoffb audreyt seems to be an active catalyst
18:59 kolibrie fglock: it's nice to know that all the parsers you wrote are coming in so handy
18:59 the_dormant joined #perl6
19:00 TimToady I think perhaps fglock does something like genetic programming.  :)
19:00 fglock "TimToady"
19:01 jrockway hey, btw... how come so few Perl6 talks at YAPC::NA?
19:01 fglock kp6 is much cleaner, but v6.pm is a year ahead
19:01 fglock jrockway: $$$ for me
19:02 jrockway no audreyt or timtoady talks though :(
19:02 TimToady I'll be there
19:02 geoffb Personally, I just want to have some $p6_impl able to do what pugs does + packed arrays.  It sounded like Pugs was closest to getting there, because fglock's genetic designs had a few more generations to go.  But it seems like no one wants to work on Pugs until audreyt's new AST stuff lands for real.  Which means we had the familial equivalent of a bus error on Pugs.  Sigh.
19:02 jrockway oh, ok
19:02 fglock later &
19:03 fglock we need more mutant implementors
19:03 fglock left #perl6
19:04 geoffb I probably qualify as a mutant implementor, except that -Ofun for me involves implementing a higher layer ...
19:07 * jrockway needs twice as much time (or caffeine)
19:08 geoffb I find that twice as much caffeine is pretty brutal on the guts
19:08 jrockway exactly
19:08 Daveman joined #perl6
19:24 REPLeffect_ joined #perl6
19:24 TimToady caffiene, schedule, guts--pick two
19:28 lumi ?eval <caffeine schedule guts>.pick(2) # ?
19:28 evalbot_r16148 ("guts", "caffeine")
19:28 lumi 1x caffeine, then
19:37 HiTech69 joined #perl6
19:37 * diakopter will request audreyt work on pugs Tue-Fri, but I can't guarantee it will occur. :)  quod licet Iovi non licet bovi.
19:38 the_dormant joined #perl6
19:41 avar ?eval <good fast cheap>.pick(2)
19:41 evalbot_r16148 ("good", "cheap")
19:43 TimToady that's us all right...
19:46 gaal ?eval <moose moose moose>.pick(1)
19:46 evalbot_r16148 ("moose",)
19:46 gaal ?eval <black black black>.pick(1) # henry ford
19:46 evalbot_r16148 ("black",)
19:49 diakopter ?eval <pugs self>.pick(3)
19:49 evalbot_r16148 ("self", "pugs")
19:49 pasteling "evalbot6_r16148" at 65.89.234.66 pasted "Pugs build failure" (326 lines, 19.6K) at http://sial.org/pbot/24622
19:49 Tene ?eval ("moose" xx 90).pick(1)
19:49 evalbot_r16148 ("moose",)
19:49 evalbot6_r16148 joined #perl6
19:50 gaal http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n141/wildernesscat/Balloon%20Festival/balloon_festival58.jpg
19:50 lambdabot http://tinyurl.com/29tbaf
19:50 geoffb very nice
19:52 benny_ joined #perl6
19:55 dduncan joined #perl6
19:56 devogon joined #perl6
19:58 TimToady I wonder if it can see the fjords from there...
20:00 gaal I don't know about fjords, but these may be pines: http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n141/wildernesscat/Balloon%20Festival/balloon_festival47.jpg
20:00 lambdabot http://tinyurl.com/2dxcgy
20:12 limp` joined #perl6
20:16 vel6608 joined #perl6
20:29 benny changed the nick to benny_
20:33 kolibrie jrockway: I was feeling a little lonely looking over the list of talks
20:33 kolibrie fglock: you can help me with my talk :)
20:33 jrockway heh, there are like 4 catalyst talks this year
20:34 jrockway which is good
20:37 veritos joined #perl6
20:39 explorer joined #perl6
20:48 REPLeffect_ left #perl6
21:12 metaperl joined #perl6
21:13 metaperl Juerd: ping?
21:14 Juerd metaperl: pong
21:15 metaperl Juerd: are you getting my private msgs?
21:17 Juerd Yes
21:17 Juerd I'm not identified to nickserv at the moment
21:17 Juerd So I cant send replies
21:18 metaperl oh
21:19 metaperl maybe we can join #juerd and talk
21:20 Tene But what if other people spy on you?!
21:21 metaperl :)
21:21 metaperl beppu: hey!
21:21 moritz Juerd: if somebody /msgs you, your replies will work
21:22 moritz Juerd: unless the other one /unqueries prior to reply, afaict
21:22 * moritz is not registered eitehr
21:24 Juerd Apparently not
21:24 geoffb Apparently someone beat me to registering my preferred nick here, but so far as I know we've never tried to be in the same channels, so my only worry is that the other geoffb might be some jerk and people think I'm him.
21:24 Juerd I get this when I reply to metaperl:
21:24 Juerd 23:15 [freenode] -!- Private messages from unregistered users are currently blocked due to spam problems, but you can always message a staffer. Please register! ( http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#privmsg )
21:24 lambdabot Title: freenode: frequently-asked questions
21:24 geoffb I've considered registering a new nick, but I haven't had enough push to overcome laziness
21:25 moritz Juerd: did you try /msg nickserv register ?
21:25 moritz geoffb: same for me ;)
21:25 Juerd moritz: I am registered, but it's not accepting my password.
21:25 moritz I got kicked twice because the "owner" of my nick joined, but he was gone after a few minutes
21:25 Juerd I don't care enough to do anything about it.
21:25 geoffb moritz: ditto.
21:26 Juerd I generally just hate freenode for things like this.
21:26 Juerd I used to hate it for the wallops flood too, but that stopped when lilo died.
21:27 geoffb lilo *died*?  Wow, I wondered why the wallops went down so much, but I just assumed lilo got a life or something
21:28 avar heh, I was just wondering how many users didn't know about lilo but just noticed a reduction in wallop spam:)
21:28 avar apperently at least one:)
21:29 geoffb Amazing the impact people have ...
21:29 moritz .oO(People are overrated ;)
21:29 ruoso joined #perl6
21:30 geoffb "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals and you know it."
21:35 moritz "the source of all unhappiness is other people. the sooner you learn to thonk of other people as noisy furniture, the you will be happy" - read somwhere on the dilbert cartoons ;)
21:36 [particle] sartre wrote, "hell is other people."
21:36 [particle] my views differ.
21:39 larsen_ joined #perl6
21:47 rissy joined #perl6
21:47 cmarcelo joined #perl6
21:48 mdiep_ joined #perl6
21:55 Limbic_Region joined #perl6
21:57 cmarcelo joined #perl6
21:59 cmarcelo joined #perl6
22:00 rhandom left #perl6
22:29 SubStack joined #perl6
22:33 cj is the fancy test report at http://smoke.pugscode.org/ created using Test::TAP::HTMLMatrix?
22:34 lambdabot Title: Pugs Smoke Reports
22:36 avar cj: yes
22:40 jrockway avar, long time no see
22:40 avar jrockway: wrarr
22:43 Aankhen`` joined #perl6
22:51 cj jrockway: good call
22:56 jrockway cj: no problem :)
22:57 jrockway i need to get this set up at work too... glad someone reminded me
23:06 gravity joined #perl6
23:11 cmarcelo is it possible that the trac abnormal resource usage was caused by bots scanning the irclog and getting to diff pages generated by trac via the magic r1234 links?
23:12 TimToady when the load average was 12, there were two bots using trac, googlebot and msnbot
23:12 TimToady that was several days ago that I looked
23:13 geoffb Why not just block those bots?
23:13 geoffb "We didn't know how to do that in Trac" is a valid answer ....
23:15 cmarcelo was that abnormal usage happening before moritz++ irclog?
23:16 jrockway we had similar problems with catalyst trac
23:16 jrockway we switched to fastcgi + postgres and that solved everything
23:16 jrockway trac does dumb locking on sqlite databases
23:17 cmarcelo jrockway: sqlite support something else than locking the entire DB? (sorry, I'm not very familiar with SQLite..)
23:17 jrockway i don't think so
23:17 jrockway but i'm pretty sure trac was spinning out of control while waiting for the lock
23:17 cmarcelo geoffb: I don't know how to do this with trac :(
23:18 jrockway while(locked){ acquire_lock } or something
23:18 jrockway i didn't look at the code, so don't yell at me if i'm off :)
23:18 jrockway python looks like line noise
23:18 geoffb *chuckle*
23:19 TimToady just run it through py2p6 and then it'll run slow all the time...
23:19 jrockway haha
23:20 * jrockway recruits interested parties to join #killtrac on irc.perl.org :)
23:20 cmarcelo jrockway: what's killtrac?
23:20 jrockway perl glue for RT / bugzilla + SVN + etc.
23:21 jrockway basically trac, but not as bad
23:21 jrockway also mojomojo for the wiki
23:21 cmarcelo oh.. seems nice
23:21 jrockway i haven't written much though
23:21 jrockway only KT::Timeline, which is like trac's timeline
23:21 cmarcelo is there a webpage somewhere?
23:21 jrockway but with CPAN Testers reports, and other nice stuff in addition to tickets, commits, etc.
23:21 jrockway killtrac.bsdro.org i think
23:21 jrockway it's totally a work in progress
23:22 jrockway we really need people that care enough to write some code
23:22 jrockway we all want it, but nobody wants to write it :(
23:22 jrockway not sure why
23:23 geoffb jrockway: perhaps because many of us have to do that kind of stuff for $day_job and want to spend our limited fun time on something completely different
23:23 jrockway yeah, that could be it
23:23 geoffb Then again, there are people who are lucky enough not to have a $day_job yet.  :-)
23:29 lichtkind joined #perl6
23:42 cmarcelo jrockway: just a thought: VCS independent is a little bit harder if you want to do fancy integration. some VCS have different ways to identify revisions or even doesn't have concept of revisions (darcs), for example.
23:44 awwaiid changed the nick to awwaiid_

| Channels | #perl6 index | Today | | Search | Google Search | Plain-Text | summary

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo