Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2007-05-06

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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00:36 cmarcelo moose!
00:36 lambdabot cmarcelo: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
00:36 cmarcelo @moosages
00:36 lambdabot fglock said 2d 4h 58m 16s ago: - pugs can use this data to emit either perl6 or haskell - http://sial.org/pbot/24669
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00:51 pasteling "rhr" at 65.94.38.10 pasted "pugs build failure" (17 lines, 857B) at http://sial.org/pbot/24715
00:52 rhr "Setup: cannot satisfy dependency network-any" what's that?
00:55 rhr nevermind, found it
00:55 svnbot6 r16191 | Darren_Duncan++ | ext/QDRDBMS/ : added methods to AST.pm and PhysType.pm
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01:20 cmarcelo Last Thursday I gave audreyt++ Perl 6 Today talk in my University (took 2.5x time to cover 90% :-P). There was a friend of mine there who worked with LLVM and I told about mp6 and the possibility of making mp6 work over LLVM. Is there another place where LLVM could be useful? Maybe making PIL -> 'llvm high level language' conversion? Ideas?
01:20 cmarcelo (or should I convince him to 'go parrot' :o)
01:23 avar It would probably be best to convince him to keep going away from parrot:)
01:24 avar cmarcelo: Have you looked at the emitter part of the kp6/mp6 source?
01:26 avar anyway, it looks pretty easy to write a backend
01:26 avar I've been thinking of how neat it would be to write an emitter for common lisp. You could run it on sbcl, perl6 in machine code:)
01:28 dduncan terminology opinion question: if you were to take an arbitrary expression and derive a simpler expression that produces the same result, eg, changing the expression 5+2 into the expression 7, is that better called refactoring, or folding, or something else?
01:29 avar constant folding
01:29 dduncan what about expressions that contain variables
01:30 avar constant folding is genarally used for things you can fold at compile time regardless of whether the values are actually constants
01:30 cmarcelo avar: I'm looking, seems doable, maybe it's time to spread a commitbit :)
01:30 dduncan eg, ($a / 7) + ($b / 7) --> ($a + $b) / 7 mayhaps
01:30 avar perl5 for instance folds sub a () { 1 } sub b () { 2 } a + b to 3
01:30 avar someone give the man commit!
01:31 * avar doesn't know how
01:31 dduncan I think I can do it ... have before ...
01:31 dduncan looking ...
01:32 avar dduncan: oh that's not constant folding, that's like turning div operations into multilication operations
01:32 avar I don't think there's a specific term for that. That would just be generally re-arranging the AST to get more speed out of it
01:32 dduncan I'll specifically tell you what I want to know about ... look at the pod for ext/QDRDBMS/lib/QDRDBMS/AST.pm
01:33 dduncan in a DESCRIPTION sub-section, I make references to rearranging an AST to something logically equivalent, but simpler
01:33 dduncan in those docs, I called it refactoring
01:33 cmarcelo invite.pugscode.org isn't up :(
01:33 dduncan but I'm looking at a slideshow now about Perl 5.10 features, and it calls something similar as folding
01:34 dduncan the refactoring in question is a compile-time action effectively
01:34 dduncan as in the general case it only uses info known from looking at the AST itself, and known language built-ins, but treats user-defined stuff as free variables
01:35 dduncan note that in the language the AST is for, system-defined and user-defined stuff have a separate namespace, and one can't override the other
01:35 avar cmarcelo: damn, you can still do a patch I guess..
01:35 avar patches--
01:37 dduncan so, eg, you don't have to worry about users redefining sys.add or sys.divide etc
01:37 dduncan anyway, about commit bits, looking ...
01:37 cmarcelo svn.pugscode.org:9999
01:37 dduncan who needs one anyway?  post your email address here, which is how they are handed out
01:37 cmarcelo avar: I do have one, but my friend still doesn't..
01:37 dduncan what's your friend's email?
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01:40 cmarcelo 9999 doesn't work either...
01:40 dduncan but anyway, as soon as I recall what site to go to, unless it is one of the above, I do have Pugs admin privs
01:40 dduncan for a long time
01:40 * dduncan off to dinner
01:42 cmarcelo dduncan: I'll try login invite via feather to see if it works..
01:43 dduncan okay
01:50 rhr dduncan: I think that's called strength reduction
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02:13 * dduncan is back
02:13 dduncan rhr, "strength reduction"? ... interesting, haven't heard that term before... will look it up
02:14 dduncan if you're referring to the fold/refactor question
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02:27 rhr dduncan: not sure that's exactly correct, it's probably closer to what you mean than constant folding
02:27 rhr e.g. replacing multiplies with shifts and adds is strength reduction
02:27 dduncan that's just an example ... what I want is more generic
02:28 rhr "optimization" :)
02:28 dduncan generically, its just the process of reforming an AST into another that means the same thing but is spelled differently
02:28 dduncan optimization is one primary reason to do it
02:29 dduncan another reason is canonicalization ... if an AST is canonicalized, then you can take 2 such ASTs and then structural equivalence can mean value equivalence
02:29 dduncan otherwise you can have different structures with the same values
02:30 dduncan mind you, having the same structure isn't essential for use of the AST in general, and so the core doesn't implement refactoring itself, but I wanted to have a name for if someone made a third party module to do so
02:30 dduncan optimize is good for a common case
02:32 rhr woohoo, the big machine at work does a make smoke in 6 mins.  Smokin!
02:32 dduncan example of different being the same is "a+b" vs "b+a", assuming + is commutative
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02:35 dduncan on a separate matter, I'm wondering about the feasability of, right after 5.10 comes out, making a new CPAN module have Perl 5.10 as a minimal dependency, rather than 5.8.1 ... eg, are people likely to be migrating to 5.10 quickly?
02:36 dduncan as I recall, people using some Windows packages can't use 5.8.1 anyway as they get 5.8.0, and would next get 5.10.0
02:36 dduncan so for them it would be no change
02:37 dduncan s/Windows packages/Perl binaries for Windows/
02:38 avar people will generally upgrade along with their distro
02:38 dduncan so then, when the OS bundles 5.10, that's when most people will get it?
02:39 avar yup
02:39 avar very few build their own perl
02:39 dduncan in that case, I hope that 5.10 comes out early enough that October's public Mac OS X 10.5 release bundles it
02:40 dduncan so far, only Mac OS X 10.x.0 versions update the system perl
02:40 dduncan though 10.3.0 used 5.8.1rc3, so I suppose they may not wait for the final 5.10.0
02:41 dduncan thanks for that note
02:42 avar bundling a maint rc is way different than bundling blead
02:42 dduncan what about 10.0.0rcN ?
02:42 avar in that case they probably manually went over the bugfixing patches (I wouldhope)
02:42 avar mmmmayybe
02:43 dduncan afaik, the 5.8.6 bundled with OS X 10.4 includes some extra patches
02:43 dduncan or I certainly recall that an OS X security update patched the system perl
02:43 avar why do you care about osx perl in particular?
02:43 dduncan but it didn't increment the number
02:43 dduncan that's the system I use, and so do a lot of other people
02:44 dduncan mind you, I build my own Perls anyway, so it doesn't affect me so much
02:44 dduncan personally
02:45 dduncan so in that case, all I really care about is that most of the people who would use my module, whatever situation they are in, they could easily have 5.10
02:45 dduncan whatever their OS
02:46 dduncan speaking a little more broadly, I have separate 5.x and 6.x versions of my module anyway ... so since the 6.x one is meant to be the future one, I wonder if I should make the 5.x one support as many 5.x Perl versions as possible, or also limit it to an extent by requiring 5.10
02:47 dduncan my current thought is to stick with 5.8.1 for now, and change to 5.10 for requirements in 1 year
02:47 dduncan anyway, this isn't very important
02:49 rhr debian stable will probably not get 5.10 until the next release, likely >1yr away
02:49 dduncan okay
02:50 dduncan mind you, I don't actually need 5.10 for anything, that I'm aware of, but I know that 5.8.1 is a minimum since good Unicode support is important
02:51 dduncan but some of 5.10's features look nice, and could considerably affect my module's API if employed
02:51 dduncan but my module will be pre-1.0.0 for a couple years probably, so I can change the API before then
02:52 dduncan eg, if Field Hashes let me use arbitrary objects as hash keys, I might use that as part of my API rather than analagous input being arrays of binary arrays
02:53 dduncan otoh, Field Hashes may not actually do what I'm thinking of
02:57 Khisanth pseudo hashes done right?
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03:14 svnbot6 r16192 | rhr++ | Fix to t/xx-uncategorized/io_finalize_part(1|2).t
03:14 svnbot6 r16192 | rhr++ | Part 2 can fail when tests are run concurrently.  This ensures part 2
03:14 svnbot6 r16192 | rhr++ | waits until part 1 is done before trying to read the file.
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04:26 svnbot6 r16193 | rhr++ | Cleaner fix for t/xx-uncategorized/io_finalize_part2.t
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07:17 agentzh fglock: some random thoughts on PCR:
07:17 lambdabot agentzh: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
07:17 agentzh @messages
07:17 lambdabot TimToady said 1d 14h 3m 10s ago: the other problem I noticed is that the build_info line is excessively long, with embedded \n sequences that could probably be turned into <br> at some point
07:18 agentzh TimToady: i've noticed that too. it seems to be a problem on the YAML::Syck side (0.85). not sure.
07:20 agentzh fglock: i see a lot of code duplication in PCR's test suite. and i've been pondering the idea of refactoring some of them using ingy++'s Test::Base.
07:21 agentzh because PCR is already using Module::Install, it will be straightforward to bundle T::B into inc/ without adding an extra module dependency.
07:22 agentzh furthermore, Test::Base offers ---TODO, ---SKIP, ---ONLY, and ---LAST, which are very handy while debugging.
07:23 ingy :)
07:23 agentzh hi, ingy!
07:23 ingy hola agentzh
07:23 agentzh :)
07:23 agentzh i hope you are able to hack now.
07:23 ingy is Test::Bast getting ported to p6
07:24 ingy I am
07:24 agentzh you're porting T::B to p6?
07:24 ingy no, are you?
07:24 agentzh not yet :)
07:24 * ingy is hacking on YAML2.pm
07:24 agentzh wow
07:25 agentzh i'm talking about using T::B in PCR which is p5 module for p6 regexes.
07:25 ingy with libyaml support as first thing
07:25 agentzh so it will be as fast as libsyck?
07:25 ingy ok cool
07:25 ingy i don't know
07:25 ingy maybe faster
07:25 ingy maybe slower
07:25 * agentzh thinks libyaml is in C.
07:26 ingy yes, it is the best yaml parser emitter currently
07:26 agentzh so i'd expect it to be faster. :)
07:26 ingy well it' more correct
07:27 ingy it was written from the spec
07:27 agentzh that's cool.
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07:27 ingy for python, then ruby got a port
07:27 * agentzh dislikes YAML incompatibility.
07:27 ingy nod
07:28 rindolf Hi ingy, agentzh
07:28 ingy the YAML trio just last night decided to start having regular voice meetings to fix the nits in the yaml world
07:28 agentzh hi, rindolf.
07:28 ingy hi rindolf
07:28 rindolf What's up?
07:28 ingy hackin
07:29 rindolf ingy: oh, that's good.
07:29 rindolf Ingy, I wrote a Flickr uploader, using YAML.
07:29 ingy :)
07:31 agentzh ingy: one complaint on Test::Base:
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07:31 agentzh positioning of failing tests is not trivial.
07:31 agentzh because there is no line number in the TAP output.
07:32 agentzh currently i'm using === TEST 1, === TEST 2, to identify the tests.
07:32 agentzh of course, i'm also using a perl script which can index the tests in *.t automatically for me
07:33 rindolf And the good thing about my Flickr uploader is that I can just delete the few lines of the files I've already uploaded in case I'm interrupting it.
07:34 ingy agentzh: commits welcome :)
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07:34 agentzh ingy: cool!
07:35 agentzh ingy: where's the commit bit?
07:35 agentzh ;)
07:35 ingy send me an htpasswd entry
07:36 agentzh k, a sec
07:37 ingy http://svn.kwiki.org/kwiki​/trunk/src/ingy/Test-Base/
07:37 lambdabot Title: Revision 246: /trunk/src/ingy/Test-Base
07:37 agentzh agentz:fDIUPjY7ncjrs
07:37 ingy I moved most of my modules to just ship with Kwiki ;)
07:38 agentzh Kwiki++
07:41 agentzh ingy: why put META.yml under version control? isn't it automatically generated by Makefile.PL?
07:41 ingy agentzh: I'm moving away from that
07:42 ingy is "agentz" a typo?
07:42 agentzh no
07:42 agentzh agentz == agent zhang
07:42 agentzh because agentz is not available here, i chose agentzh.
07:42 miyagawa ingy: tried ShipIt?
07:44 ingy miyagawa: no, what is it
07:44 ingy agentzh: please test the commit bit
07:44 miyagawa it's an app to ship the software, like CPAN module
07:44 agentzh ingy: okay!
07:44 miyagawa now I can't live without it
07:45 ingy huh
07:45 ingy i'll check it out
07:45 miyagawa ingy: it's on CPAN or http://code.sixapart.com/svn/shipit/trunk/ (the svn head supports M::I)
07:45 lambdabot Title: Revision 63: /trunk
07:45 agentzh ingy: 403
07:46 dmq joined #perl6
07:47 agentzh ingy: is the command correct? htpasswd -nb agentz password
07:48 ingy I use  htpasswd -bc /dev/tty agentz password
07:49 agentzh ingy: try this again? "agentz:a5pwh4S5zJ27w"
07:49 ingy agentzh: ok, but I made a config mistake
07:49 agentzh committed :)
07:50 ingy it worked?
07:50 ingy ok
07:50 ingy good
07:50 agentzh yup
07:50 ingy http://trac.kwiki.org/trac/timeline
07:50 lambdabot Title: Timeline - Kwiki 2.0 - Trac
07:50 ingy :D
07:51 ingy I gave you write access to src/ingy/
07:51 agentzh cool, thanks :)
07:53 ingy miyagawa: tell brad to use YAML :P
07:53 miyagawa he hates all kinds of serialization :)
07:54 ingy so he invents his own
07:54 ingy silly
08:00 rindolf Hi miyagawa
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08:01 miyagawa ingy: the default is good (re: shipit)
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08:33 svnbot6 r16194 | agentz++ | util/testgraph.pl - patched smoke.html to expand the \n\t stuff requested by TimToady++
08:33 agentzh TimToady: fixed.
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08:37 * agentzh runs a smoke to test it.
08:39 agentzh FYI, if you has got a smoke.yml, you can run the following command to generate smoke.html from it without wasting off your last smoke:
08:39 agentzh util/testgraph.pl smoke.yml smoke.html
08:39 agentzh *have
08:40 rindolf agentzh: are you Chinese?
08:40 agentzh rindolf: yes
08:40 agentzh rindolf: where are you from?
08:41 rindolf agentzh: I'm from Israel.
08:41 rindolf .il
08:41 rindolf agentzh: where do you live?
08:41 agentzh Jiangsu province, China.
08:42 rindolf agentzh: OK.
08:42 agentzh (in a small town)
08:42 agentzh hehe
08:42 rindolf Mainland China?
08:42 agentzh yup
08:42 rindolf agentzh: nice.
08:42 rindolf agentzh: OK.
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08:43 agentzh Hmm, it would be useful to convert Pod6 to Pod5.
08:45 agentzh and vice versa
08:50 agentzh fglock: also, it would be nice to add smartlinks to PCR's test suite.
08:50 agentzh linking to S05.
08:52 agentzh i'd like to compare the performance of PCR and P::RD :)
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08:57 rindolf agentzh: so do you have problems accessing the wikipedia?
08:57 agentzh rindolf: yes
08:57 rindolf agentzh: too bad. :-(
08:57 rindolf I can no longer imagine my life without the WP.
08:57 agentzh rindolf: well, i have very cool proxies :)
08:58 rindolf agentzh: yes, so I was told.
08:59 agentzh WP has some political entries which our government dislikes.
08:59 rindolf agentzh: http://sports.yahoo.com/olympics​/news?slug=ap-beijing-chinglish - Chinglish.
08:59 lambdabot Title: The word is out in China: Speak better English - Olympics - Yahoo! Sports
08:59 rindolf agentzh: maybe.
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09:23 agentzh "* The .yml and .html files don't seem to correspond.  Aborting."
09:23 agentzh sigh.
09:34 agentzh okay, finally fixed.
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09:40 svnbot6 r16195 | agentz++ | updated smokeserv-client.pl accordingly
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09:51 agentzh iblech++ seems to be very busy lately.
09:52 agentzh problems on the server-side of the smokeserver cannot be fixed while those on client-side can. :)
09:52 * agentzh goes to run another smoke.
09:55 agentzh yay for smoke cycle of 6.8 min! :D
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10:24 svnbot6 r16196 | agentz++ | made 01-smartlinks.t more portable
10:33 svnbot6 r16197 | agentz++ | smartlinks.pl - now we require Perl6::Perldoc 0.0.5
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10:34 ingy agentzh: ping
10:39 ingy agentzh: do you know of some sane xs modules that i can study?
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10:58 rindolf ingy: maybe Math::GMP?
11:00 agentzh ingy: ?
11:02 * agentzh believes ingy is the author of Inline::C which does a lot of XS magic.
11:15 svnbot6 r16198 | agentz++ | smartlinks.pl - made File::Slurp optional
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11:20 riffraff hi everyone
11:20 mithraic joined #perl6
11:21 agentzh hi, riffraff
11:21 riffraff dummy question: am I right in thinking that  substr($str,$n,1,'') should delete the n-th character from $str?
11:22 agentzh as long as you're using 1 as the base.
11:22 agentzh index base, i mean
11:23 riffraff wow
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11:23 riffraff why not 0?
11:23 agentzh riffraff: sorry, i may be wrong. why not try that out in your perl/pugs?
11:24 riffraff because I think it is broken in pugs, but I wanted to check :)
11:24 riffraff given $str='ciao' and $n=0
11:24 riffraff it returns 'c' as expected, but $str is unmodified
11:24 agentzh i think it shouldn't modify $str.
11:25 riffraff but it does in perl5, doesn't it?
11:26 agentzh indeed.
11:26 riffraff ok
11:26 agentzh $ perl -e '$a='abc';substr($a,3,1,"");print "$a\n"'
11:26 agentzh abc
11:27 agentzh p5 doesn't delete the nth character it seems.
11:27 riffraff then the question becomes: how do I remove char $n from $str? I'd use s/<at($n).// buit it won't work with current Rule implementation
11:28 riffraff this is strange, I was basing my expectation on http://www.perlmeme.org/ho​wtos/perlfunc/substr.html
11:28 lambdabot Title: Using the Perl substr() function
11:28 agentzh sorry, i was assuming your n is the length of the string.
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11:28 riffraff agentzh, wait, try 2 instead of 3
11:28 agentzh right.
11:28 riffraff eh exactly
11:28 agentzh and it removes the n+1th character.
11:29 riffraff well I think strings are 0-indexed so for me it removes exactly the nth char :)
11:29 polettix the whole point of the fourth parameter is the substitution of the substr in the original string, IIRC
11:30 riffraff yep, I'd prefer an interface where substr does'nt do side effect and returns two values $modifed, $replacement
11:30 agentzh riffraff: removing the nth char is easy with regexes.
11:30 riffraff agentzh, eh, try in pugs :)
11:30 agentzh (if not using substr)
11:30 polettix riffraff: I actually like the current interface. You can choose to use the three-args one, which has no side effect.
11:31 b_jonas I like the current interface as well
11:31 riffraff I think it depends in the fact tha yoiu're accustomed to that while I have an habit with different ones
11:31 agentzh s/(.**{n-1,n-1})./$1/
11:32 agentzh not sure if it's the correct syntax.
11:32 riffraff agentzh, I expect you mean $n in the first part.. won't work, can't interpolate in regex in current pugs
11:32 polettix I have to test, but I think that something like this  my $extracted = substr(my $residual = $orig, $n, $howmany, '');   should work as well
11:32 agentzh riffraff: oh, pity
11:33 riffraff polettix, (my $tmp = $orig).substr($n,1,$rep) works
11:33 polettix riffraff: indeed, it probably boils down to what one is used to :)
11:33 riffraff well, it would if pugs did side effect :)
11:33 b_jonas I think it's good because if you're used to side-effectless programming, you can use the three-arg form
11:34 b_jonas while if you want to modify the string in-place without copying, you can use the four-arg form
11:34 riffraff b_jonas, but it doesn't provide the same feature
11:34 b_jonas that's true
11:34 riffraff I mean, once I know what is the meaning of substr I'm fine with it, I don't complain
11:34 polettix riffraff:  (my $tmp = $orig).substr($n,1,$rep)  sounds very nice imho
11:34 agentzh riffraff: maybe hack that into pugs?
11:35 riffraff polettix, yep. $orig.substr($n,1,$rep) and $orig.=($n,1,$rep) seem better to me :)
11:35 riffraff but again, just habit
11:35 ingy agentzh: Inline::C was 7 years ago man
11:36 agentzh ingy: okay
11:36 ingy :)
11:36 polettix riffraff: I don't get the second
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11:37 riffraff if substr was side effect free, that would be the side-effect version
11:39 polettix $orig.=($n,1,$rep)  isn't meant to append something to $orig?
11:39 polettix ah no, the .
11:39 riffraff ah yea there is a substr missing
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11:39 riffraff $orig.=substr($n,1,$rep)
11:40 polettix riffraff: so what should $orig.substr($n,1,$rep) do?
11:40 riffraff I love the .= thingy :)
11:40 riffraff return a copy and not modify $orig
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11:41 polettix riffraff: so why the $rep?
11:41 b_jonas it's the replacement
11:41 riffraff well a _modified_ copy :)
11:41 polettix yes, but if the orig is not modified, why the rep?
11:41 riffraff because you modify the copy
11:42 riffraff i.e.: 'hello'.substr(0,1,'f') #-> returns "fello"
11:42 polettix riffraff: sorry, I don't fully get the semantic. The $rep in perl 5 is supposed to modify the part you're extracting, so in your non-modifing version it should simply return $rep
11:42 polettix uh, now I see
11:42 polettix so it's more a subst than a substr :)
11:43 riffraff yep
11:44 polettix I don't like it, it completely changes the semantic
11:44 polettix I mean,  'hello'.substr(0,1)  # returns 'h', right?
11:44 riffraff maybe
11:44 riffraff :)
11:47 riffraff ah
11:47 riffraff substr($s,$n,1)= 'foo' works as expected
11:47 riffraff nice
11:47 riffraff polettix, yep, returns the fragment
11:48 riffraff that I'd return as a second value
11:48 riffraff but nevermind I don't plan to change the perl6 spec ;)
11:48 polettix riffraff: as long as what comes out is consistent and easy to remember, without surprises I mean, it's good IMHO
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12:01 svnbot6 r16199 | agentz++ | [util/smartlinks.pl]
12:01 svnbot6 r16199 | agentz++ | * refactored the duplicated code into sub gen_preamble
12:01 svnbot6 r16199 | agentz++ | [util/t/01-smartlinks.t]
12:01 svnbot6 r16199 | agentz++ | * trimed trailing spaces before diff'ing
12:13 iblechbot joined #perl6
12:14 agentzh iblech: ping
12:15 agentzh iblechbot: tell iblech to update the stuff on smoke server.
12:17 agentzh weird. there's still no interface for specifying external css file in the latest Perl6::Perldoc::To::Xhtml :(
12:23 agentzh hmm, S26.pod6 is not in UTF-8, it seems.
12:25 svnbot6 r16200 | agentz++ | [smartlinks.pl]
12:25 svnbot6 r16200 | agentz++ | * used Perl6::Perldoc::To::Xhtml's full-doc feature
12:25 svnbot6 r16200 | agentz++ | * now we don't set UTF-8 for S26 since it's in Latin-1
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12:37 svnbot6 r16201 | agentz++ | smartlinks.pl - fixed various typos in the POD
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12:40 svnbot6 r16202 | agentz++ | smartlinks.pl - added note that it's still under active development
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13:37 xinming -rd syn
13:37 fglock agentzh: re PCR tests - I prefer to keep the tests in plain perl5, because I frequently need to insert debugging code
13:37 xinming sorry wrong channel.
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13:39 fglock re PCR performance - it depends on which backend you are testing; there is a plain-perl5regex backend that is very fast, and the original lrep backend which is very slow
13:40 fglock I've been replacing the slow parts one at a time
13:46 agentzh fglock: it's still very easy to insert debugging logic in the context of T::B.
13:46 agentzh (and i believe it can be *easier* :))
13:47 agentzh i'm not suggesting converting all the existing tests to T::B.
13:47 agentzh i just think it's good to organize some new tests of regular forms via T::B
13:50 agentzh fglock: is it okay to add some new tests in T::B format to serve as some examples?
13:51 agentzh fglock: i think you will like it :)
13:51 fglock agentzh: sure - please note that the actual specification-compliance tests are run with v6.pm
13:51 fglock from pugs/t/
13:52 agentzh fglock: yes, i know.
13:52 agentzh fglock: but i'm more interested in PCR at this moment :)
13:53 agentzh PCR is much more practical for real-world apps.
13:53 fglock I'm doing some refactorings right now, in order to run Perl6-STD as the v6.pm grammar
13:54 agentzh fglock: i'm willing to offer tests to PCR if you don't mind :)
13:55 agentzh i won't touch the old ones.
13:55 agentzh i'll only add new ones.
13:55 fglock agentzh: sure, please do :)
13:55 agentzh fglock: thanks :)
13:58 fglock I'm implementing non-greedy quantifiers in ratchet mode, using 'forward checking'
14:02 fglock re tests - there are some corner cases, in which I'm not sure what is the correct answer
14:02 agentzh *nod*
14:03 agentzh i'll look at  PGE's test suite to see if i can import them into PCR's format.
14:03 agentzh as well as pugs/t
14:04 fglock agentzh: it is already ported to pugs/t/, isn't it?
14:04 agentzh fglock: ah
14:04 agentzh cool
14:05 * agentzh has a lot of stuff to read.
14:06 agentzh now that i'm able to use pod6, i'd like to use p6 regexes *today* :)
14:16 fglock agentzh: take a look in http://www.perl.org.br/bin/viewfile/Artigos/​AdventuresInPerl6?filename=adventure.pl.txt
14:16 lambdabot http://tinyurl.com/ywhau2
14:16 agentzh looking
14:17 agentzh ah...a game using v6.pm?
14:17 agentzh hehe
14:18 fglock notice the '#!/usr/bin/perl' :)
14:18 agentzh yes, i've noticed that :)
14:21 agentzh it looks very nice :)
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14:31 moritz rhr: if you haven't fixed you build failure, install libghc6-network-dev
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15:18 riffraff hi
15:22 riffraff I notice that some tests marked as TODO pass
15:22 riffraff shall I remove the todo<feature> thing and make them real?
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16:30 masak riffraff: sounds like a good idea to me -- unless it's somehow evident from the tests that the feature isn't really implemented and that the tests pass anyway
16:30 masak in the latter case, I think I would actually advise removing the tests, or at least think hard about why they're there
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16:33 riffraff good point
16:33 riffraff point is evidence is not so evident
16:33 riffraff :)
16:33 riffraff maybe I should write another test for the same feature, check that it pass, then remove the todo one and commit
16:40 agentzh oh, my god...
16:40 agentzh pugs installs p6 modules into my p5's lib and destroys everything.
16:41 integral The install is untested and no one uses it...
16:41 agentzh i've just used it.
16:42 agentzh i think "make install" worked fine on Win32 in the last year.
16:42 agentzh after trying this command on my linux tonight...
16:42 agentzh heart-burn...
16:43 * agentzh looks for a way to cancel the damage.
16:44 riffraff ok, I really believe that t/builtins/want.t's first 5 test really work
16:44 riffraff probably because now caller is implemented correctly
16:45 riffraff or, well, better if not correctly
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16:49 agentzh okay, i've reproduced exactly the same error message got by jerrylee when he tried out mp6-perl5-boot.pl with his activeperl 5.8.8 b820 on my ubuntu system.
16:49 agentzh "Can't locate v6.pm in @INC (@INC contains: /etc/perl /usr/local/lib/perl/5.8.8 /..."
16:50 agentzh someone must have changed the 'make install' logic :(
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16:59 * riffraff miserably fails to understand where "ant" comes from
16:59 riffraff (want)
17:00 amnesiac_ joined #perl6
17:02 riffraff is there a smarter way of doing (0..$word.chars-1) .map { dostuff($word,$char_index)
17:02 riffraff ?
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17:03 riffraff basically I need something like "n times" but I don't know how to do that
17:03 b_jonas well, ^$word.chars or even ^$word might work instead of the range
17:06 riffraff what is the ^
17:06 riffraff ?
17:07 riffraff I can see it generates a useful list of elements :)
17:07 riffraff even if  they are floats, for some reason, I wonder what is the real meaning of ^ ?
17:08 rindolf Hi riffraff
17:08 rindolf Hi b_jonas
17:08 riffraff hi rindolf
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17:08 b_jonas hi
17:08 b_jonas well, ^ is the iota operator according to the Synopsis
17:09 topic for #perl6 is:
17:09 b_jonas that is, ^6 is supposed to generate the list 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 or something like that
17:09 riffraff doesn0t really look like a iota
17:09 riffraff but which synopse?
17:09 b_jonas does -> look like lambda
17:09 b_jonas the operators one
17:09 riffraff very true
17:09 b_jonas that's S03
17:10 b_jonas "prefix:<^>, upto operator"
17:11 b_jonas "Constructs a range or locates a metaclass. See "Range semantics"."
17:11 riffraff very nice thanks
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17:13 rindolf riffraff: how's life treating you?
17:13 agentzh how can i reinstall modules under  /usr/local/share/perl/5.8.8/ via debian please?
17:14 riffraff good wuestion
17:15 riffraff i'm actually torn. I feel fine but I have this stupid sneeze
17:15 riffraff and tomorrow I will start my last period in the university, which is bad bad not so bad, cause I think I have one nice class
17:16 * agentzh really wants to cry...
17:17 agentzh i'm removing things...
17:17 riffraff agentzh, I did: remove perl, reinstall perl,
17:17 riffraff probably --reinstall would work
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17:18 agentzh riffraff: good idea
17:19 agentzh removing perl will also remove hundreds of other debian packages...
17:19 riffraff yes that'0s why reinstall should work
17:19 agentzh --reinstall doesn't work for me.
17:19 riffraff mh
17:20 riffraff that's bad
17:20 agentzh *nod*
17:20 riffraff I'm quite sure I did that
17:20 agentzh pretty bad.
17:20 agentzh 636 packages will be removed if i remove perl. :)
17:25 riffraff tr gpind down to the dpkg level maybe
17:25 Patterner changed the nick to Psyche^
17:25 agentzh riffraff: will try
17:27 agentzh working now
17:27 agentzh after removing the problematic modules from /usr/local/share/perl/5.8.8/
17:27 agentzh interesting
17:27 riffraff mh
17:28 riffraff that would explain why I have a 5.8.8 dir in the pugs working directory
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17:34 unobe hi agentzh
17:34 unobe i changed the make install code a bit about a month ago
17:35 agentzh unobe: hello
17:35 agentzh unobe: really?
17:35 * agentzh is still in a big pain.
17:35 unobe it was supposed to add more config variables to pugs when running
17:35 unobe when moritz built w/debian, he said it still worked for him
17:35 unobe and so i thought i didn't royally screw up
17:36 agentzh but now my perl is totally broken.
17:36 agentzh and i believe jerrylee and laye sufferred from similar problems too.
17:37 unobe there should be a file called current.build.yml
17:37 unobe in the pugs build dir
17:37 unobe giving the build configuration for pugs
17:37 agentzh looking
17:38 agentzh unobe: which installation path is for p6 modules?
17:38 unobe i believe it's sitelib
17:39 unobe but i'm not on a debian system
17:39 agentzh sitelib: /usr/local/share/perl/5.8.8
17:39 agentzh my god...
17:39 unobe the subdir debian
17:39 unobe it has the debian config options no? or is that just for bundling?
17:40 agentzh ?
17:40 unobe nm, that's for building a dpkg
17:40 agentzh unobe: want to have a look at my .current.build.yml?
17:41 unobe sure
17:41 unobe paste?
17:41 pasteling "agentzh" at 221.131.66.145 pasted "my .current.build.yml" (42 lines, 1.2K) at http://sial.org/pbot/24724
17:43 riffraff uff, I want gather-less take for expressione with modifiers
17:44 riffraff is that already ruled out from decades?
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17:55 unobe agentzh: what's the sitelib for debian supposed to be?
17:56 agentzh i think that's for p5 modules, not p6.
17:56 unobe what did perl -MConfig -e 'print $Config{sitelib}, "\n"' say?
17:56 unobe yeah, but the Makefile for pugs uses the perl5 config vars
17:56 unobe util/PugsConfig.pm
17:56 agentzh /usr/local/share/perl/5.8.8
17:57 unobe on my machine, i always remember pugs installing into the sitelib of Perl5
17:58 agentzh but p6 versions of File::Find, Test::Simple, Getopt::Std will lead to a disaster for perl 5.
17:59 unobe right, but i believe they get installed in their own subdir, perl6 under the sitelib
17:59 agentzh sitelib is in perl 5's @INC, no?
18:01 unobe yes, it is
18:01 agentzh my perl 5 is no longer usable now.
18:01 unobe but i thought that pugs created subdir under the sitelib which perl5 was installed into during installation
18:01 agentzh it's keeping complaining v6.pm is not found or something like that
18:02 agentzh unobe: but it didn't.
18:03 unobe i'm untarring the pugs i bundled and seeing how it would be installed
18:04 agentzh i've just removed /usr/local/share/perl/5.8.8 with anger. now i'm reinstalling everything related to perl. alas.
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18:09 unobe i'm sorry for totally fucking up your system, agentzh
18:09 agentzh unobe: it may not be your fault ;)
18:10 avar so how about fixing `make install' ?:)
18:10 * agentzh won't try to do that.
18:10 agentzh it's dangerous :)
18:11 agentzh especially when testing it.
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18:19 unobe i found the problem
18:20 unobe it's in util/PugsConfig.pm
18:20 agentzh unobe++
18:20 unobe it was my fault :-/
18:20 agentzh :)
18:21 * agentzh needs to do regular backup for his own machine. :)
18:21 unobe I'm svk up'ing and then I'll submit
18:21 agentzh cool
18:22 topic for #perl6 is:
18:24 unobe should put "Think thrice before changing 'make install'"
18:24 agentzh lol
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18:27 agentzh end of day for me &
18:27 agentzh left #perl6
18:30 amnesiac changed the nick to amnesiac_
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18:43 svnbot6 r16203 | agentz++ | PCR - added a smartlink to 09-ratchet.t
18:46 svnbot6 r16205 | unobe++ | fixed 'make install' problems
18:47 unobe @tell agentzh the current.build.yml should now show good paths to install pugs into.
18:47 lambdabot Consider it noted.
18:53 * Tene notes that 'find /usr/lib/perl5 -cmin -30 -print0|xargs -0 sudo rm -f' is mostly effective at cleaning up after a broken 'make install'
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19:06 riffraff is it normal thgat doing make smoke-upload takes ages?
19:08 Khisanth does make smoke normally take a long time for you? (it does for me ...)
19:09 Khisanth or rather it did, I haven't tried it recently
19:09 Khisanth maybe one or two releases ago
19:09 svnbot6 r16206 | agentz++ | PCR - more smartlinks to 09-ratchet.t
19:15 riffraff no I mean the smoke.html is built
19:15 riffraff I just can't upload :)
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19:33 svnbot6 r16207 | agentz++ | PCR - trimmed trailing spaces in 09-ratchet.t and added several more smartlinks
19:39 nperez joined #perl6
19:41 diakopter agentz: working past 'end of day'? ;)
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19:53 svnbot6 r16208 | agentz++ | PCR - 09-ratchet.t - even more smartlinks
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20:08 svnbot6 r16209 | agentz++ | PCR - minor cleanup in 09-ratchet.t
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20:44 rhr anyone know why ext/DateTime/t/basic.t would start failing since yesterday?
20:45 rhr pugs> my Date $date = Date.new( :string<now> )
20:45 rhr *** No such subroutine: &Date
20:45 rhr that worked last night...
20:51 rhr whoops, forgot to use Date;... but, having fixed that, $date.year is undef and $date.month and $date.day are 1
20:52 ruoso joined #perl6
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21:21 rhr $date.year should be set to localtime(time).year, which correctly returns 2007, but it's undef
21:21 rhr and apparently it works on agentzh's machine
21:25 rhr it looks like the wrong BUILD multi is being used, but why would it do that?
21:27 ozo joined #perl6
21:29 rhr aha, I smell a ::Rat.  I still don't understand why it worked yesterday and not today...
21:36 pasteling "rhr" at 65.94.38.10 pasted "strange Date.pm behavior" (8 lines, 237B) at http://sial.org/pbot/24733
21:37 rhr how could $epoch be undecalred?  and why does it work the second time?
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21:54 pasteling "rhr" at 65.94.38.10 pasted "similar but different weirdness after a make clean" (13 lines, 222B) at http://sial.org/pbot/24734
21:55 rhr it's calling the wrong BUILD multi the first time, but the right one the second time
21:56 rhr I give up for now
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