Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2007-05-08

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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09:05 riffraff ciao
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10:08 dolmans test(1,2,3) may differ from test (1,2,3), is it a bad design or not?
10:09 riffraff I think
10:12 dolmans language designing is a very hard homework, tossing to those talents.
10:14 riffraff ops sorry
10:14 riffraff wrong chan
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10:23 dmq answer to fglock from yesterday: yes
10:24 riffraff is doesn't make sens that junctions work "sometimes" but not always, right?
10:24 riffraff ouch
10:24 riffraff how comes?
10:24 dmq $subrule=qr/.*/; /a (??{$subrule}) b/
10:25 dmq or: /(?(DEFINE)(?<subrule>.*)) a (?&subrule) b/
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10:34 riffraff dmq, sorry, what is that? answer to me, dolmans or what?
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10:37 dmq no thats in reply to fglock's question from last night/yesterday
10:38 riffraff oh sorry
10:43 dmq nothing to be sorry about. :-)
10:44 riffraff that is very ugly, if I put a junction in a variable and do is $j, $foo I get a result
10:44 riffraff but if I do is make_function(),$foo
10:44 riffraff I get another
10:44 riffraff is this expected behaviour?
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10:57 * riffraff notices that junctions sometime don't have a proper .values()
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11:19 svnbot6 r16224 | fglock++ | [PCR] - implemented <?{...}> and <!{...}> in backtracking mode
11:20 fglock dmq: thanks
11:20 avar fglock: that works?
11:23 fglock avar: yes - perl -e ' $subrule=qr/.*/; "axxxb" =~ /a ((??{$subrule})) b/x; print $1 '
11:25 fglock just to be sure it is not interpolating: perl -e ' my $subrule; my $rule=qr/a((??{$subrule}))b/; $subrule=qr/.*/; "axxxb" =~ /$rule/x; print $1 '
11:34 svnbot6 r16225 | fglock++ | Pugs-Compiler-Rule-0.23 in CPAN
11:45 nipotaway changed the nick to nipotan
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11:52 MarLaw Hello
11:53 zafoeta joined #perl6
11:54 zafoeta hi guys
11:54 moritz hi
11:54 MarLaw I'm with a friend, we've done some haskell at university and we like it, we're thinking of joining pugs if help is needed and i've did  (a little)  on Language Processors again at university
11:56 dmq no it doesnt interpolate.
11:56 dmq thats the infamous bizarre parsing code that avar bumped into a while back.
11:56 dmq and its worth noting that Perl5 and PCRE have different behaviour for named-recursion.
11:57 dmq specifically in PCRE named recursion is atomic. wheras in perl5 much work was done to make it backtrackable.
11:57 dmq of course we really need a superlinear cache for named recursion/(??{...})
11:58 dmq but nobody seems to have the both the inclination and tuits.
11:59 dmq you might find that translating subrules to named recursion brings a speedup...
11:59 moritz MarLaw: do you want a commit bit?
12:00 dmq iow: /(?(DEFINE)(?<subrule>$subrule)) a ((?&subrule)) b/x
12:00 MarLaw yeah that would be great moritz
12:00 zafoeta had one yesterday ...
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12:00 dmq that will interpolate, but to your benefit
12:01 obvio171 changed the nick to obvio171_
12:01 moritz MarLaw: just /msg me your email adress
12:01 * dmq pokes fglock
12:01 zafoeta hey, i was reading yesterday the syopsis
12:01 zafoeta there seems a lot to read
12:02 zafoeta do we have to knows it first very good before we can help with any implementation coding ... ?
12:02 moritz MarLaw: btw on freenode you need to be registered to /msg... if you are not (and not keen on it either), just write it in the channel
12:02 moritz MarLaw: unless you are afraid of spam, that is ;)
12:03 MarLaw moritz: i'm sending with /msg
12:03 MarLaw not getting any ?
12:03 MarLaw I think i'm registered
12:03 moritz MarLaw: no :(
12:03 MarLaw ok
12:05 MarLaw 'x'.$mynickname .'x@gmail.com' is enough antispam ?
12:05 moritz it is indeed ;)
12:06 zafoeta and what if @gmail is an array?
12:06 MarLaw what do you mean ?
12:06 moritz MarLaw: sadly you need a bit patience because commitbit.pugsocode.org times out :(
12:06 moritz MarLaw: ignore him...
12:06 moritz '..' is non-interpolating ;)
12:07 fglock dmq: i'm back
12:08 dmq did you see those comments i made?
12:08 fglock dmq: re subrules, I need them to be lexically redefinable, so I prefer not to inline
12:09 fglock that is, no named recursion
12:09 moritz can anybody else invite MarLaw? I just get timeouts
12:09 dmq i dont see why it wouldnt be lexically redefinable.
12:09 moritz what the hell is going on on feather?
12:09 dmq its just a different approach to how you embed it.
12:10 dmq the advantage of the named recursion approach being that it is optimizable by the compiler.
12:10 dmq essentially its a question of latebinding versus early binding.
12:10 fglock dmq: isn't $subrule interpolated there?
12:10 dmq yes.
12:11 dmq but thats ok. it shouldnt change for the duration of the match should it?
12:12 dmq the thing that is special about (??{..}) is that the regex engine has to deal witht he possibility that the returned pattern could be different every time.
12:12 dmq but if you are doing (??{ $some_qr }) then it doesnt change every time.
12:13 dmq also (??{ ... }) has the potential for tricky bugs pre 5.10
12:13 fglock consider $rule = qr((?(DEFINE)(?<subrule>$subrule))a((?&subrule))b);
12:13 fglock $rule will not be recompiled later
12:14 fglock reinterpolated
12:14 dmq right, yeah if you are storing the rule then its different.
12:18 fglock ok - but I'll still consider the optimization when possible
12:20 dmq actually, it makes me think maybe we could do something to deal with scenario.
12:20 dmq *maybe*
12:21 fglock hmm - I can't update v6.pm on CPAN; depends on Module::Compile and Sub::Multi fixes :(
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12:24 riffraff hello
12:24 riffraff is it possible to define my own subroutine traits in current pugs?
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12:24 riffraff I see I can do sub bar is foo {} and it always eval's correctly but I don't think it does anything
12:26 fglock riffraff: you can use it with a 'role'; this is being refactored, not sure how much works
12:27 riffraff so I just follow S12's trait description ?
12:28 moritz MarLaw: commit bit is finally sent, it will take a few minutes until you receive an email
12:29 MarLaw ok
12:29 MarLaw thanks moritz
12:29 moritz no problem ,)
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12:35 fglock I fixed the v6.pm Makefile.PL on CPAN, but I didn't update the code
12:37 fglock @tell audreyt: have you registered the 'Pugs' namespace in CPAN? I need comaint in order to have the v6.pm modules indexed
12:37 lambdabot Consider it noted.
12:39 avar MarLaw: welcome:)
12:41 fglock @tell audreyt: actually, the problem is specific to Pugs::Grammar::P6Rule - you are the owner; I need comaint
12:41 lambdabot Consider it noted.
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12:53 moritz MarLaw: did you receive an email?
12:57 MarLaw nope
13:02 moritz damned
13:02 fglock @tell clkao: would you upload Sub::Multi to CPAN? I've made a small fix
13:02 lambdabot Consider it noted.
13:02 moritz fglock: can you try to invite MarLaw? connection times out for me :(
13:03 fglock trying...
13:06 zafoeta moritz: if i want to start looking at code of pugs, where do i better start of? i am reading the synopsis and want to see some examples to learn perl6. i just know perl5
13:07 zafoeta also, i am quite new in Haskell
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13:08 moritz zafoeta: first, check out pugs repository...
13:08 moritz in docs/ there are a few interesting things...
13:08 zafoeta i have ti checked out already
13:08 moritz mainly  docs/Pugs/Doc/
13:08 fglock zafoeta: take a look at the tests, under t/
13:08 zafoeta just have to install the ghc 6.6
13:09 zafoeta ok ..
13:09 moritz then examples/ is a good place to start
13:09 zafoeta any mac user here?
13:10 riffraff zafoeta, yep
13:10 riffraff need help to install ghc6.6?
13:10 zafoeta i had installed ghc 6.4
13:10 riffraff remove it
13:10 zafoeta updated to 6.6 and get an error
13:10 fglock MarLaw: sorry, it looks like the invitation page is not working at the moment
13:11 MarLaw no problems, i'll get it from zafoeta
13:11 riffraff I had some problems too, my solution was to remove ghc 6.4 completely then install the binaries from audreyt
13:11 zafoeta how do i remove it? sorry for the stupid question
13:11 MarLaw his the man
13:11 MarLaw he's
13:12 zafoeta i am actually sitting with Lawrence in the room
13:12 zafoeta :)
13:12 riffraff how did you install it? I used the .dmg package IIRC
13:12 riffraff for 6.4
13:12 riffraff otherwise I'm afraid you have to hunt it around the file system
13:15 zafoeta i used the .dmg, but it seems it has a problem removing the libraries
13:15 zafoeta i think it has to do with the update i did
13:16 riffraff I see
13:16 riffraff don't nkow how to help then, I'm sorry
13:23 zafoeta anybody knows a good haskell editor for os x?
13:24 zafoeta and perl6 editor for os x?
13:24 gnuvince zafoeta: vim or Emacs?
13:24 lumi zafoeta: I use emacs with haskell-mode
13:25 moritz zafoeta: vim and emacs both have perl 6 modes, but I think the vim one is better supported atm
13:26 zafoeta i see, i prefer vim then. but does vim have haskell mode as well?
13:26 rindolf zafoeta: it does, sure.
13:26 zafoeta cool
13:28 moritz vim has a mode for anything you can think of - nearly ;-)
13:28 moritz ls -1 /usr/share/vim/vim70/syntax/|wc -l
13:28 moritz 482
13:31 Patterner Are there other editors than TextMate on OS X?
13:32 avar emacs
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13:37 moritz avar: Patterner was asking for editors, not for OSes ;)
13:38 moritz *SCNR*
13:38 Patterner "Emacs is a good OS, but it lacks a decent editor"
13:41 svnbot6 r16226 | fglock++ | [PCR] - fixed serialized form of '^^' '$$'
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13:46 riffraff moritz, I have something that vim doesn't have a mode for
13:46 riffraff NesC
13:46 [particle] joined #perl6
13:47 riffraff a C-dialect for embeded systems with concurrency & component-based development
13:47 riffraff (I had to write my small syntax.vim when doing my bachelor thesis :)
13:50 moritz riffraff: well, commit it to perl.org ;)
13:50 moritz riffraff: of course there are many things that vim doesn't hilight...
13:50 riffraff not many really
13:50 riffraff :)
13:50 moritz but when I work with it, most files are colorfull ;)
13:51 [particle] it even highlights the need for aid in uganda
13:51 [particle] ;)
13:51 moritz ;)
13:53 andara riffraff: there is a nesC mode ...
13:53 riffraff wow, it must have appeared in the last year
13:54 riffraff how lovely :)
13:54 andara riffraff: 2004, Joao Girao <joao.girao@netlab.nec.de>
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13:56 riffraff mh
13:56 riffraff I don't have it on my vim7
13:57 andara riffraff: http://www.vim.org/scripts/script.php?script_id=899
13:57 lambdabot Title: nesC - nesC syntax highlighting : vim online
13:57 riffraff oh I see, exists but not included
13:59 moritz and http://www.vim.org/scripts/script.php?script_id=1847
13:59 lambdabot Title: NesC Syntax Highlighting - The Syntax Highlighting for NesC Files : vim online
14:01 [particle] nesc: c for nintendo?
14:02 [particle] wouldn't that be something dangerous....
14:08 moritz are PIR and PASM syntax files uploaded to perl.org?
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14:21 svnbot6 r16227 | fglock++ | [PCR] - fixed closure call-as-method
14:28 [particle] uploaded to perl.org?
14:28 [particle] parrot has vim syntax files under editors/
14:28 [particle] so, i guess you can get them from svn.perl.org/parrot/trunk/editor/
14:29 moritz [particle]: s/perl\.org/vim\.org/
14:29 moritz [particle]: that's where I'd look first for syntax files
14:29 [particle] ah, no. not that i know of.
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14:35 zafoeta sorry for bothering again about this problem
14:35 zafoeta has any of you experienced this error when leaunching ghc Library not loaded: GMP.framework/Versions/A/GMP ?
14:36 zafoeta precisely
14:36 zafoeta $ ghc
14:36 zafoeta dyld: Library not loaded: GMP.framework/Versions/A/GMP
14:36 zafoeta  Referenced from: /usr/local/lib/ghc-6.6/ghc-6.6
14:36 zafoeta  Reason: image not found
14:36 zafoeta Trace/BPT trap
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14:42 [particle] is there some other package you need to download?
14:43 [particle] i haven't installed ghc in a year or two, but i seem to recall needing something more than just the ghc base
14:44 [particle] however, it looks funny, since you're just calling ghc
14:44 [particle] i'd assume it should Just Work
14:46 moritz is there no packaging software (like apt) for mac os that does the dependency handling?
14:46 veritos Fink?
14:46 veritos written in perl too.
14:47 riffraff macports is nice
14:47 riffraff and has ghc6.6 IIRC
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14:49 DrSlump hi
14:53 moritz hi DrSlump ;)
14:54 DrSlump hello Moritz :)
14:55 moritz DrSlump: I'm case sensitive ;)
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15:42 svnbot6 r16228 | andara++ | [runpugs] -Slight hitch: no Moose on feather. So installed it locally.
15:42 svnbot6 r16228 | andara++ |   -New release going live RSN.
15:43 offby1 ooh ooh
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15:43 offby1 moose don't have feathers!
15:47 TimToady oh, horsefeathers...
15:47 svnbot6 r16229 | fglock++ | [v6.pm] - minor fix in hash declaration
16:05 fglock the 'unspace' rule from STD now loads in perl5 without warnings; doesn't mean it works, yet
16:12 avar fglock: It looks pretty easy-ish to turn PCR into a Parse::Yapp sort of thingy, you'd define a grammar and it would emit p5/p5-rx/XS which you could then ship with your module without any Pugs:: deps
16:12 avar fglock: is that a fair assessment?
16:13 fglock avar: sure
16:13 avar kewl
16:13 fglock actually, just use v6.pm ?
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16:13 avar nah, it would be better if there were no deps aside something that implemented the match object maybe..
16:14 fglock avar: see Rule2.pm in the PCR source; it's PCR own grammar
16:14 fglock it is compiled into Rule.pmc (the Rule2.pm name avoids the circular dependency at installation)
16:17 fglock avar: there is an old script that does this; I think it's somewhere in the misc/pX directory
16:18 avar yeah, that's exactly what I mean
16:18 fglock ah, here: compile_p6grammar-token.pl and compile_p6grammar.pl in perl5/PCR/
16:19 fglock not sure if it still works
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16:19 avar I really like the src->ast->some_emitter architecture:)
16:23 fglock avar: I'll move the scripts to perl5/PCR/util/ ok?
16:26 svnbot6 r16230 | fglock++ | [PCR] move the grammar-compiler scripts into util/
16:32 svnbot6 r16231 | fglock++ | [PCR] - cleanup base directory
16:34 fglock avar: feel free to modify those grammar compiler scripts
16:36 fglock now taking a look at Ook :)
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16:40 avar fglock: it's incomplete:), very
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16:46 TimToady Juerd: I am amused that feather's /var/log has files that were last modified in 2012 and 2016...
16:47 TimToady I suspect a wormhole
16:48 gnuvince @seen audreyt
16:48 lambdabot audreyt is in #perl6 and #haskell. I don't know when audreyt last spoke.
16:48 TimToady maybe sabotage from future python programmers time travelers
16:49 TimToady that might explain why jifty/commitbit suddenly started taking 45 cpu seconds per transaction...
16:50 TimToady gnuvince: at the moment audreyt is preoccupied with Real Life™
16:50 moritz what's feathers load average?
16:51 TimToady about 9
16:51 gnuvince TimToady: thanks.
16:51 moritz TimToady: does comitbit work for you at least?
16:51 TimToady I did eventually get a commitbit sent to MarLaw
16:51 moritz great
16:51 TimToady (a correct one, with x on both ends)
16:52 TimToady but I had to wait till the loadavg dropped to 5
16:53 [particle] what are those numbers in, fahrenheit? i never understood that scale
16:53 TimToady currently backups are running
16:53 TimToady loadavg?
16:54 [particle] yeah.
16:54 gnuvince [particle]: if memory serves rights, it's the number of CPU secs a process has to wait before being processed
16:54 TimToady er, no...
16:54 gnuvince the three numbers show the average for the last 1, 5 and 15 minutes.
16:55 TimToady it's a time-decayed average of number of processes wishing to use the CPU right now
16:55 [particle] ah
16:55 moritz ... and other resources apart from CPU iirc
16:55 [particle] do processes typically get an equal timeslice?
16:56 moritz [particle]: that depends on their "nice" value
16:56 TimToady depends on the work profile
16:56 TimToady if several processes are completely CPU bound, and have the same nice, they should share equally
16:56 TimToady but IO always screws things up
16:56 moritz bad IO ;)
16:57 [particle] everybody hates io
16:57 * moritz too
16:58 TimToady when I run top on feather, the load avg seems artificially high compared to the number of processes in R state, so it seems that it's counting in IO waits somehow.  maybe processes that are done with IO are counted but don't show as R yet...
16:59 moritz TimToady: sometimes zombies contribute to the load avg as well
16:59 TimToady or maybe the algorithm has changed in the last 20 years or so.
17:00 TimToady zombies shouldn't be putting any load on the CPU
17:00 TimToady they just occupy table space
17:00 moritz TimToady: yes, but sometimes they do increase the load avarage parameter by one
17:01 TimToady I'd call it a bug if so
17:01 moritz can't be, linux is perfect[TM] ;)
17:02 TimToady
17:02 veritos joined #perl6
17:02 moritz whatever ;)
17:03 TimToady I wish I could get my compose key to use vim digraphs...
17:03 bernhard joined #perl6
17:03 veritos TimToady: i wish i could bind keystrokes to Perl keywords
17:04 moritz veritos: that should not be too hard
17:04 veritos moritz: i know, i'm trying to write something that does that
17:04 TimToady vim has macros, but irssi isn't vim...
17:05 veritos #i<stdio.h> \n imain(v){printf("Hello");r0;}
17:07 TimToady and last time I tried changing the compose key table, it had no effect at all.  apparently there's a mysterious compilation step known to the cognizenti
17:09 TimToady and my compose key doesn't, in fact, even do everything that the table I'm supposedly using specifies, but I think that's input method damage, probably
17:09 TimToady doesn't recognize any triple key sequences for instance
17:10 TimToady so it won't do em-dash, among other things
17:10 veritos TimToady: so you use all of those nifty << >> brackets and stuff?
17:10 TimToady « and » are the only latin-1 chars we use currently
17:11 TimToady and we don't use them as heavily as we used to
17:11 TimToady we got rid of ¥
17:11 moritz is that 'zip' now?
17:11 TimToady zip() or
17:11 TimToady Z
17:12 veritos can't we still use as a type of quote mark? q<<foo>> or whatever?
17:12 TimToady sure
17:12 TimToady ?eval say «a b c»
17:12 moritz can't you define that as a macro?
17:12 evalbot_r16231 changed the nick to evalbot_r16219
17:12 evalbot_r16231 OUTPUT[abc␤] Bool::True
17:13 TimToady ?eval say q«a b c»
17:13 evalbot_r16231 OUTPUT[a b c␤] Bool::True
17:13 veritos ah, i see.
17:13 moritz circumfix:<q«...»> or something?
17:14 TimToady the q language is productive and extensible.  a macro wouldn't be, at least not without complicating it
17:14 [particle] "q language"... can you make it turing complete?
17:15 TimToady ?eval say q:c «here is { 1+2 }»
17:15 evalbot_r16231 OUTPUT[here is 3␤] Bool::True
17:15 moritz [particle]: all perl DSLs have to be turing complete ;)
17:15 dmq whats wit the hl thingee on the output
17:15 TimToady I just added 1+2 inside single quotes
17:16 TimToady with the help of :c
17:16 Tene dmq: ␤ you mean?
17:16 moritz dmq: it's N/L and stands for new line
17:16 Tene that's "NL" for "newline"
17:16 dmq ah
17:16 dmq thats a unicode character is it?
17:17 TimToady indeed
17:17 dmq interestink
17:17 dmq :-)
17:17 TimToady ␤       2424            SYMBOL FOR NEWLINE
17:17 dmq so the question is does it match \n :-)
17:18 TimToady I surely hope not. :)
17:18 Tene ?eval '␤' ~~ m/\n/
17:19 evalbot_r16231 Match.new(␤  ok => Bool::True, ␤  from => 0, ␤  to => 0, ␤  str => "", ␤  sub_pos => (), ␤  sub_named => {}␤)
17:19 TimToady crap
17:19 TimToady it's emphatically *not* whitespace
17:19 dmq heh.
17:20 Tene TimToady: from 0 to 0
17:20 moritz and str => "", but ok => Bool::True
17:20 TimToady that's just evalbot character class braindamage
17:20 Tene also, it's Bool::False on my local pugs
17:20 TimToady mine too, whew!!!
17:21 TimToady I think something in PCR is deemed 'unsafe'
17:21 TimToady but fails "gracefully" instead of not matching
17:21 Tene We could just stop running evalbot in safe mode.  What's the worst that could happen? ;)
17:22 TimToady system "rm -rf /"
17:22 moritz Tene: feather doesn, pugs repository lost
17:22 moritz s/doesn/down/
17:22 TimToady how 'bout run in chroot dir?
17:22 moritz or even worse, somebody could implement a trojan horse in one of the per/haskell files...
17:23 moritz and compromise all developer's maschines ;)
17:23 TimToady well, if someone does that we're basically hosed anyway
17:23 TimToady fortunately most script kiddies don't know Haskell...
17:23 moritz TimToady: yes, but without a trojan horse we can read svn diffs...
17:24 TimToady "can", but don't generally
17:24 moritz yes
17:24 TimToady I read maybe 1 in 50
17:25 TimToady usually when something tickles my "that's odd" detector
17:25 TimToady which could well be tickled by a trojan
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17:26 TimToady 'course if fglock installed a trojan we'd never know...
17:26 moritz TimToady: same for you ;)
17:26 veritos at least code in perl 5 is somewhat readable. perl 5 core c code, now...
17:34 dmq its readable.
17:35 dmq just your eyes glaze very very quickly...
17:36 veritos tokenizer code = cancer in rats. so says Camel.
17:36 TimToady yeah, it's readable like I read Chinese.  I recognize most of the radicals, but haven't the foggiest idea what it means...
17:38 Juerd TimToady: Hmmm... :)
17:38 Juerd TimToady: Interesting. Probably wasn't ntp synched at some point
17:39 Juerd TimToady: During bootup, after its crash
17:39 Juerd TimToady: I knew its system clock was screwy, but not this screwy :)
17:41 TimToady I just wonder whether some locking scheme used by jifty/commitbit relies on a stable clock, is all...
17:41 TimToady but it's a long shot
17:41 TimToady and if it were that far off, you'd think the transactions would just fail
17:42 TimToady rather than taking 45 CPU seconds
17:42 TimToady unless it's a discretionary lock that is getting forced after some period of time
17:43 TimToady haven't got up the gumption yet to try to strace it...
17:45 TimToady heh, didn't know "gumption" came from Scots...
17:47 TimToady I guess a lot of them settled in Appalachia
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17:56 TimToady しゃあしゃあ &
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18:51 fglock mncharity: hey
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19:04 TimToady MarLaw: did you get your commit bit?
19:05 MarLaw i did!
19:05 TimToady previous try left out the second x...
19:05 moritz MarLaw: it is a custom that you add yourself to AUTHORS to test the commit bit ;)
19:06 MarLaw moritz: Wouldn't that be premature ?
19:07 TimToady sure, that's why it's enforced by custom  :)
19:07 moritz MarLaw: no, we encourage new committer to do it ;)
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19:07 MarLaw ok ;P
19:07 [particle1 once you've committed, you are an author :)
19:07 TimToady we're trying to encourage a culture of brazen committers, after all
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19:21 jisom other than the "FreeBSD/amd64 registerised running" thread on the ghc mailing list, has anyone heard anything since about ghc on FreeBSD/amd64?
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19:29 TimToady maybe you're the sucker...er, the pioneer...
19:30 jisom judging by what I read, I'm not going to try :)
19:31 jisom others have tried and failed to get that far......someone finally succeeded in getting that far, but nothing publicly usable
19:31 moritz there's a good reason that pugs will not be the only and final implementation of perl6 ;)
19:32 lumi jisom: They tried and failed?
19:32 jisom lumi: some did, poor abstraction
19:32 jisom was linked to the regex stuff
19:33 lumi I guess it's a bit obscure
19:33 jisom had a similar segfault in parrot recently, though, sizeof(int) != sizeof(void*)
19:33 obvio171 joined #perl6
19:34 TimToady maybe someone should write a good regex engine in Perl 6.  :)
19:36 jisom I use PGE for the complicated stuff, and hand crafted for the rest.......one time wrote a module that parsed http uploads using hand crafted regex, just without the expressions
19:36 moritz where can I find a good tutorial "how to write a good regex engine"? *g*
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19:36 TimToady I know lots of ways not to...
19:36 jisom perldoc -f index && perldoc -f substr
19:38 jisom a lot of regexes do nothing that couldn't be done with one index call
19:39 zafoeta_ joined #perl6
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19:39 riffraff hi
19:40 moritz hi riffraff ;)
19:40 moritz jisom: but regexes are just more convenient ;))
19:40 jisom but index/substr is so much faster and obscure :)
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19:42 moritz is it compariable in speed to strstr?
19:42 moritz index, i mean
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19:42 riffraff I have a spellchecker.p6 with both regex-based and substr-based impl, so much fun :)
19:44 SubStack joined #perl6
19:44 riffraff especially because I have to eval the regexen all the time so it takes ages to work
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19:46 fglock jisom: what are you working on?
19:52 Loro_ joined #perl6
20:02 jisom  nothing at the moment, too much work
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23:36 veritos TimToady: would you even consider having syntactically significant indentation in Perl 7? or dropped semicolons?
23:36 avar veritos: due to the design of perl6 you don't need a new language for those features
23:37 avar you just change the language grammar in your scope and call it Perl6::Pythonic or something
23:37 veritos avar: no, i mean Perl 7 as the dream perl.
23:37 riffraff dropped semicolons... yeeees
23:38 veritos or is Perl 7 like TeX pi, that will never come around until Larry kicks the bucket?
23:38 veritos and then Perl 6 becomes 7 automatically?
23:48 TimToady I think (or at least hope) that Perl 6 gives the community the tools to decide what language they like best over the long haul.
23:49 TimToady if we get the grammar and versioning stuff right, all the rest is negotiable
23:50 polettix TimToady: is this what you meant with "rewrite of the community"? (IIRC)
23:58 TimToady no, I originally thought the community would do the redesign.  the community tried, it was obviously not going to work.
23:58 TimToady too many things depended on too many other things, and all the proposed solutions had tunnel vision
23:58 dduncan when did the community try to do the rewrite?
23:59 TimToady in the several months after the announcement in 2000
23:59 TimToady a lot of mailing lists were set up...
23:59 dduncan afaik, there were meetings between people, and an RFC process for what people want in the next Perl, then TimToady took that and wrote Apocalypses from them

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