Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #perl6, 2007-05-28

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo | Niecza | Specs

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All times shown according to UTC.

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01:08 svnbot6 r16544 | Darren_Duncan++ | ext/QDRDBMS/ : reordered some parts of AST.pm (the file byte size is unchanged)
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02:23 agentzh could anyone paste the IP address of feather? I'm having problems with my DNS server. :(
02:23 lambdabot agentzh: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
02:23 agentzh @messages
02:23 lambdabot Aankhen`` said 8d 22h 25m 54s ago: BTW, you might want to look at http://validator.w3.org/check?verbose=1&ur​i=http%3A%2F%2Fperlcabal.org%2Fsyn%2FS02.html … I'd change the ID format to something
02:23 lambdabot valid, but I'm not sure what it might break, so I'll leave that to you.
02:25 agentzh Aankhen``: thanks! I'll remove the leading underscores from the ID value :) it will break moritz++'s irclog but it's trivial to fix :)
02:26 agentzh oh, feather is out of reach due to DNS problem...
02:27 agentzh Aankhen``: feel free to update smartlinks.pl since I can't commit these days :(
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03:23 Aankhen`` agentzh: Aye Cap'n.
03:26 svnbot6 r16545 | Aankhen++ | util/smartlinks.pl:
03:26 svnbot6 r16545 | Aankhen++ | * removed leading underscore from line anchors to ensure valid HTML.
03:28 agentzh Aankhen``: ++
03:28 Aankhen`` Heh, thanks.
03:28 agentzh :)
03:28 Aankhen`` agentzh++ though, since all I'm doing is tweaking your work. :-)
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06:16 svnbot6 r16546 | Darren_Duncan++ | ext/QDRDBMS/ : in AST.pm, added package TypeInvo and updated TypeDict to use it, made other small changes
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07:18 meppl good morning
07:21 Tene hi
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07:30 meppl good morning tene
07:31 xinming @tell stevan__ sorry t trouble again, Please give me the Moose repository url.
07:31 lambdabot Consider it noted.
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08:12 spinclad xinming: http://code2.0beta.co.uk/moose/svn (or ask purl 'moose svn?' in #moose)
08:12 lambdabot Title: Revision 2378: /
08:13 xinming spinclad: thanks.
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08:16 PDET hello!
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08:21 PDET who wants to learn mandarin?
08:22 xinming PDET: ni gan ma?
08:23 PDET i want to find a part time job on the internet!
08:23 xinming ...
08:23 xinming This is not the right place
08:24 PDET where should i go?
08:26 xinming PDET: bu zhi dao...
08:27 PDET thank you!
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08:42 lumi TimToady++ # patch is so cool
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09:18 moritz good morning ;)
09:20 svnbot6 r16547 | moritz++ | [irclog] fixed line anchors in synopsis links which were changed in r16545
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10:54 IllvilJa Hm... I did a recent "make install" in my pugs build directory... Should I then count my two feet to ensure that I didn't shoot one of them off in the process?
10:55 moritz yes, you should ;)
11:04 lumi IllvilJa: http://moritz.faui2k3.org/irclog/out.p​l?channel=perl6;date=2007-05-25#id_l16 -- Foot counter
11:05 lambdabot Title: IRC log for #perl6, http://tinyurl.com/2f47kz
11:05 lumi moritz: There's a bug in the log search (I think)
11:06 moritz lumi: tell me more
11:06 lumi moritz: I searched for that line, the link on the search page was to id_l15
11:06 moritz it has an offset of one, I know
11:06 lumi (Well, I searched for the line in *my* logs, and then searched for the nick in the search)
11:07 lumi Okay
11:07 moritz I wanted to honor offbyone ;-)
11:07 lumi Hehe
11:07 moritz s/offbyone/offby1/
11:07 moritz but if you think it should be fixed, I can do it
11:07 lumi How does that work for the last entry in a log?
11:08 moritz I don't see a problem with the last entry
11:08 lumi You're right, the first one
11:08 moritz the first one will get a non-existing anchor and stay at the top
11:08 lumi But it'll just get you to the top of the log, so I guess it works
11:08 lumi Right
11:09 lumi Well,, I'd fix it unless you want more people like me reporting it :)
11:09 moritz lumi: ok, on my TODO list
11:09 moritz erm, @TODO ;-)
11:10 moritz but I won't fix it until some time later, I've got a master exam today ;)
11:14 lumi But it's URGENT! :P
11:14 lumi Good luck
11:15 lumi Or good non-luck, as the case may be
11:15 IllvilJa moritz and lumi: if I got it right, the pugs install will do some... intresting stuff in the perl5 directories?
11:15 IllvilJa BTW, I did a "find /usr/lib/per5 -cmen 10080" but no files showed up.  So maybe I'm lucky.
11:15 lumi IllvilJa: That's what I understand, also, it misinstalls over your perl5
11:16 lumi I mean: That's what I understand too
11:16 IllvilJa Ok.  Then I were lucky not having any misinstallations in perl5.  Or perhaps I gave my find command the wrong time limit for the -cmin flag ;-).
11:17 lumi Did you spell -cmin right?
11:17 IllvilJa Hm.  Maybe I should run "make install" in pugs, just to ensure that /usr/lib/perl5 get's "upgraded" :-D?  (just my sick humor)
11:17 IllvilJa Yes.  "-cmin 10080".  Probably I can replace the -cmin flag with something else as 10080 is the number of minutes on a week.
11:18 lumi IllvilJa: I only asked because you mentioned it wrong a second ago, but it would've thrown an error prolly
11:19 IllvilJa Hm... when I ran that "find" command on /usr/lib/perl6 instead I also get zero files.  So my use of the find command on /usr/lib/perl5 probably was a red herring...
11:20 IllvilJa (But when on earth does not I see any new files in /usr/lib/perl6??)
11:20 IllvilJa Nevermind.  I'll address this (potential) problem on my machine the professional way: I'll take two aspirin and pretend it isn't there.
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11:56 Tene IllvilJa: -cmin -10800
11:57 Tene you need the '-'
12:00 svnbot6 r16548 | moritz++ | [irclog] fixed line anchors in search, lumi++
12:05 IllvilJa Tene... thx, I'll test.
12:07 IllvilJa Hm... when I ran the command I just got 2 files in /usr/lib/perl5 which where touched last week.
12:08 IllvilJa One of them is a .pod file and the other is a .packlist file related to Perl6/Pugs, so my gut feeling is that my Perl5 install then is in pretty good shape.
12:10 * Tene nods.
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12:12 IllvilJa Of course, I won't let this prevent me from issuing yet another "make install" in my pugs build directory the next time there is a new release of Pugs (or parrot) ;-)
12:13 moritz presumably somebody will fix "make install" before a release
12:13 moritz IllvilJa: in the case of parrot you don't need to be afraid, they manage their build system quite well
12:14 IllvilJa Cool!
12:14 IllvilJa Actually, regarding Pugs and Parrot, I'm never afraid (not even when I actually should be)...
12:14 moritz ;-)
12:15 IllvilJa The brave (or stupid?) early adopters I assume assist in getting Perl6 moving forward.
12:15 moritz the only problem with parrot's build system is that you can't "make -j 2"
12:15 IllvilJa I can live with that.  And eventually, I suppose they will address that too.
12:15 moritz speaking of moving perl6 forward... do you have a commit bit?
12:16 fglock demq: ping
12:16 IllvilJa Um... no. I do unfortunately not have any time hacking ON Perl6,  I'm barely looking into hacking WITH perl 6 so I suspect that a commit bit would be a bit wasted on me.
12:17 IllvilJa But if I get the possibility in the future to contribute with code to the Perl6 language or modules etc I'll ask if I can get that bit.
12:17 moritz IllvilJa: ok
12:17 IllvilJa But thanks for asking!
12:17 moritz IllvilJa: for example working examples/ are always welcome ;)
12:18 IllvilJa Aha!
12:18 IllvilJa I'll remember that.
12:18 lumi A bit wasted, haha
12:18 nipotan changed their nick to nipotaway
12:18 * moritz sells commit bits on ebay ;-)
12:19 lumi I've seen them go on auction
12:20 IllvilJa Hm... commit bits and pieces... sorry, I won't go down that path.  (Beware, I'm born and raised in Gothenburg, Sweden, a town whose inhabitants are notorious for their love for really bad jokes based on wording and twisting the Swedish language.  So I rather stay away from "bit"-jokes...  Like trying to get a "commit byte" for a workgroup of 8 ppl etc...)
12:21 IllvilJa Ok, got to focus on my work (which right now is coding in Perl 5, ironically). Thanks for the chat!
12:22 moritz ;-)
12:24 demq ironically coding must be hard.
12:25 demq youve got to steel yourself to do it.
12:25 fglock demq: you asked why Data::Bind instead of Data::Alias in v6.pm?
12:25 demq and if you arent careful you might come'a'copper.
12:26 demq yes
12:26 demq especially if you find yourself lead down the garden path.
12:27 fglock mostly because clkao wrote Data::Bind, and he was working on v6.pm at that time
12:27 demq ah
12:27 demq no other technical reason?
12:27 fglock I don't think so
12:28 fglock Data::Alias looks pretty good
12:28 demq cool.
12:28 demq do you mind if i quote you here?
12:28 fglock sure
12:28 demq thnx
12:28 fglock but you talk to clkao too
12:29 fglock s/you/you could/
12:29 fglock I'm trying to find this out in the irc logs
12:30 demq hopefully he reads p5p, and will pipe up if has something to add.
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12:32 fglock I think we just ignored that Data::Alias existed - http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/pe​rl/porters/208440?do=post_view_threaded
12:32 lambdabot Title: Mailing List Archive: Re: Data::Bind sematics in Perl core, http://tinyurl.com/yvfkt2
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12:34 demq ok.
12:37 demq thanks. at the very least it clarifies the situation.
12:38 fglock thank you
12:38 fglock brb &
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13:16 fglock I've been thinking about how to "lexically modify the grammar" - for example, how is 'use Python' going to work?
13:17 demq die "Naughty boy"
13:17 demq :-)
13:18 demq er, die "Say no more"
13:18 fglock :)
13:19 demq the logic in the perl5 regex optimiser is twisted beyond all comprehension
13:20 fglock I see how categories are multi subs, that can be lexically redefined; but the Perl 6 grammar methods are not lexical (or are they?)
13:21 fglock re twisted: even if you add some structure to a complex system, it is still complex
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13:24 demq trust me, this is twisted. just plain old twisted.
13:24 demq i almost wonder if ilya was on acid when he wrote it
13:24 fglock aha, I forgot about $?PARSER
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13:25 demq hmm, maybe if i took acid i could understand it.. hmmm
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13:45 gaal possible janitorial Hs job, try out the new Data.Derive at http://www-users.cs.york.ac.uk/~ndm/derive/ as a replacement for DrIFT
13:45 lambdabot Title: Neil Mitchell - Derive
13:46 gaal though if someone has tuits and is looking for Hs stuff then moving more stuff from Pugs.Prim.* to MO methods is better!
13:47 gaal "Hs tuitted individual"
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14:10 xinming TimToady: Can we add a special variable into perl 6, which will be an alias of value returned by last executed sub?
14:11 rgs and blow up memory ?
14:11 xinming TimToady: eg, currently, in perl 5, we have, if (my $a = blabla()) { return $a }; If we have such veriable, we can use
14:11 xinming if (blabla()) { return $last_return_variable }
14:11 xinming rgs: No, It won't, just an alias. It won't take too much space.
14:12 lumi xinming: if blabla -> $a { return $a } # Wasn't there something like this?
14:12 rgs but you have to keep the original value around.
14:12 xinming lumi: What i want is, write something like...
14:13 xinming blabla && return $last_excutes_variable;
14:13 rgs I'm only a perl-5'er, but in that context that doesn't sound like a good idea. Perl 6 might be different.
14:13 xinming lumi: It is still the same like 'if (my $a = blabla) { return $a }' in perl 5
14:14 demq a new keyword like returnif would do it.
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14:14 demq returnif blahlah();
14:15 xinming demq: But I don't think TimToady will add this keyword. ;-)
14:15 demq use feature returnif
14:15 demq :-)
14:15 gaal iirc there a similar proposal, that named this thing "it".
14:15 demq ive wanted stuff like that beofre.
14:16 xinming Because perl is different. ;-)
14:16 lumi macro returnif($a) { {{{my $t = $a; return $t if $t; }}} }
14:16 lumi Or so...
14:16 xinming People use perl wishes to write code as less as possile.
14:16 xinming possible*
14:17 demq its *kindof* like ||= or //=
14:17 gaal shouldn't there be an extra scope in that macro, to prevent $t from leaking?
14:17 xinming lumi: Such kind of thing is easy to add, But I think many people will like there will be built-in
14:17 xinming lumi: It's a bit like the function 'say' in perl 5
14:17 lumi gaal: I think it's scoped to be a fresh name? Could be wrong
14:18 lumi s/scoped/specced/
14:18 xinming sub say { print @_, "\n"; }
14:18 gaal macros get their own scope be default? doesn't sound, uh, sound.
14:18 lumi xinming: iswym, and I've been using that construct quite a bit
14:18 lumi gaal: That's hygiene
14:19 xinming lumi: What does iswym mean?
14:19 lumi I see what you mean
14:19 gaal xinming: i see what you moose
14:19 lumi That too :)
14:20 gaal well, so long as there's a way to supress the extra scope..
14:20 lumi if (blahblah()) { return $^it }
14:20 gaal $^ only works in ->s
14:20 lumi Oh?
14:21 lumi I thought $^ and -> were bitter enemies
14:21 gaal let me refresh my moose..
14:21 lumi aol
14:22 xinming Perl will be a language for the next century... :-)
14:22 gaal oh, you're right; "it is illegal to use placeholder variables in a block that already has a signature"
14:22 xinming use GLOBAL '$*blabla*
14:22 xinming use GLOBAL '$*blabla'
14:24 lumi gaal: As for the macro, :COMPILING makes it meanthe outside scope
14:24 lumi Without it, variables default to freshness
14:25 lumi http://perlcabal.org/syn/S06.html#Quasiquoting
14:25 gaal ACK, thanks
14:25 lambdabot Title: S06
14:26 lumi I guess I was using {{{}}} wrong though
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14:30 gaal bbl&
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14:47 lumi What's the win in Data.Derive over DrIFT?
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14:51 gaal worth evaluating, but possibly: 1. faster 2. easier to use, because we can just bundle Derive instead of having anyone who wants to hack on modules that have instances need to install DrIFT themselves (which is kinda tricky with our symlink chicanery)
14:51 gaal re-bbl&
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14:57 lumi gaal: Ah, Data.Derive with its TH, I see
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15:24 nothingmuch eautiful: http://galileo.phys.virginia.edu/classes/109​N/more_stuff/Applets/brownian/brownian.html
15:24 lambdabot Title: Einstein's Explanation of Brownian Motion, http://tinyurl.com/4undx
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15:44 fglock nothingmuch: will you be at YAPC::EU?
15:46 nothingmuch fglock: yep
15:46 fglock great :)
15:47 nothingmuch i hope my talks get accepted
15:47 nothingmuch well, talk, really
15:47 nothingmuch the other is more of a "if you like I'm willing to give that too" kind of fller, that slightly applies to the social perl theme
15:48 moritz nothingmuch: which topic?
15:48 moritz I mean the "real"
15:48 nothingmuch moritz: object meta programming
15:49 pasteling "nothingmuch" at 84.110.247.29 pasted "abstract" (12 lines, 1K) at http://sial.org/pbot/25188
15:51 moritz sounds nice ;)
15:59 nothingmuch climbing &
16:00 moritz have fun ;)
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16:38 Limbic_Region salutations all
16:39 moritz hi L_R ;)
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17:18 TimToady yes, "if blahblah() { return $^it }" should work
17:19 TimToady in fact, arguably "if blahblah() { .return }" should work if we take the use of $_ to be a requirement for a parameter to the block.
17:19 TimToady since "if" should respond to any block that has arity == 1
17:20 TimToady but I can also argue that the other way
17:22 TimToady since people will also expect "if .foo { .bar }" to use the same $_ for both.
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18:33 renormalist When I (try to) port a P5 module to P6, what version number do you typically choose. 0.01, ie. from the beginning, or the version, that's ported?
18:42 demq when did the perl6 design phase start?
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18:44 demq specifically would the perl.bootstrap be considered to be a perl6 or perl5 list?
18:44 demq or should it just be considered to be a perl list?
18:46 demq wikipedia seems to consider this important in describing "Warnocks Dilemma"
18:50 renormalist demq: just the wrong time. Probably in every timezone an important tv programm has started or such. try again in 1h. :-)
18:51 demq heh. thanks. i was starting to feel warnocked there
18:51 demq :-)
18:51 renormalist demq: btw, I don't understand the question. Do you ask, when the first apocalypse was written?
18:52 demq no, its silly trivia.
18:53 demq somebody was quibbling over the post that brought us "Warnocks Dilemma" and whether it was to a perl-5 or perl-6 list. in hindsight its a stupid debate.
18:53 demq as Larry has officially stated that he considers both to be just Perl. Therefore it doesnt matter
18:54 Limbic_Region actually, I thought it was on the perl6.internals list which really is parrot
18:54 Limbic_Region but I am likely mistaken
19:00 svnbot6 r16549 | renormalist++ | - is extended|deep|also traits
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19:04 demq apparently it was called perl.bootstrap
19:18 svnbot6 r16550 | lwall++ | Added note about parsing of pblocks in conditional statements.
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19:25 riffraff hi
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20:16 svnbot6 r16551 | renormalist++ | * cperl-mode: long time bug fixed:
20:16 svnbot6 r16551 | renormalist++ |   distinguish between blocks and hashes now works.
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20:40 renormalist Are there still the    tr///   and y ///   in Perl6?
20:41 TimToady tr/// only
20:41 renormalist ok. (simplifies a cperl-mode problem ...)
20:42 Aankhen`` joined #perl6
20:42 TimToady see S05:3260
20:43 renormalist ah, found it, thx
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20:47 qmole what does the y stand for anyway? anything?
20:47 Khisanth lazY coder? :P
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20:48 svnbot6 r16552 | renormalist++ | - cperl-mode: $.y no longer misinterpreted as start of y///  
20:48 moritz translyteration ;)
20:48 qmole hmm. :)
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20:53 renormalist qmole: maybe they searched for a letter and someone said: Y not. And his partner answered: Why not Y? And then a third one in the room collected the most probable char statistically, which was Y in that dialogue.
20:54 * renormalist should start an urban legend series about unanswerde mysteries in unix history.
21:05 gaal is this correct?  ($obj but SomeRole).role_meth
21:05 gaal or must you do something to make the invocant a clearer term?
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21:07 gaal .oO(hast is of the devil, eh?)
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21:16 TimToady gaal: I don't know how you could make it look any more like a term than the parens already do.
21:18 amnesiac <TimToady> see S05:3260 ---> that sounds like the bible!
21:19 moritz amnesiac: it kinda is - we just need a citebot ;)
21:19 amnesiac indeed, that would be pretty helpful.
21:19 moritz in the irc logs they alread link to the corresponding "verse" ;)
21:21 TimToady bbl &
21:21 moritz bbl = bible ;-)
21:21 TimToady ;)
21:21 TimToady really bbl &
21:24 gaal (($obj but SomeRole) but term).role_meth ?
21:28 gaal I figured out why haskell drives people to distraction. In it, otherwise = True.
21:28 moritz monads drive me mad
21:29 Aankhen`` moritz: Hi, just in case you missed it, the line anchors on the synopses no longer start with an underscore.
21:29 moritz even quantum physics is easier ;)
21:29 Aankhen`` So it's just, f.e. "line_499".
21:29 moritz Aankhen``: thanks, fixed in  r16547
21:29 Aankhen`` Kewl. ^_^
21:29 Aankhen`` moritz++ for the logs BTW.
21:30 gaal moritz: in my experience, years of suffering help somewhat.
21:30 moritz thanks ;)
21:30 gaal seriouslier, pick more than one tutorial and see what they ahve to say.
21:30 moritz gaal: how very encouraging ;)
21:30 moritz gaal: I do that already
21:31 gaal this is in opposition to most of the rest of the language, which you can learn from just say YAHT
21:31 moritz and it helped me with other topics, so I hope it will help me with monads as well
21:32 gaal oh, the YAHT presentation of monads isn't bad! it's just that (ymmv but) in my experience no single tutorial made me "get it".
21:32 gaal we probably need a cubist tutorial writer, I mean painter, to get it all on cavas.
21:33 moritz I think the diversity is very helpfull
21:33 gaal moritz: oh, and one very specific tip: make sure you understand typeclasses.
21:33 * Aankhen`` wonders whether control statements could take subs.
21:33 moritz Aankhen``: in haskell? sure ;-)
21:34 Aankhen`` Heh.
21:34 Aankhen`` I meant in P6, of course. ;-)
21:34 moritz gaal: I decided to skimm over most of the tutorials, and then start a smal "real" project, and at the same time I read through it more carefully
21:36 moritz the \ notation for lambda is something I can't get used to unless I'll write a whole lot of them myself ;)
21:36 gaal moritz: oh that's easy. just rewrite it in Perl 6 with ->  :-)
21:36 gaal another thing to do is to look at Parsec code
21:37 gaal there's a lot of it in Pugs, and not all of it is crazy
21:37 moritz for me, a parsec is a unit for length/distance
21:37 gaal most of it uses do notation, but there's occasionally an explicit >>= bind
21:38 gaal Parsec is a monadic parser combinator library
21:38 gaal that is, it gives you tiny parsers for basic things, and you combine those to write parsers for bigger and bigger things
21:38 gaal @google parsec daan
21:38 lambdabot http://www.cs.uu.nl/~daan/parsec.html
21:38 lambdabot Title: Parsec
21:39 moritz so it's basically bottom up?
21:39 gaal YAHT introduces it nicely
21:39 moritz ok, I'll read that ;)
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21:42 gaal it's rec descent, if i'm not mistaken, but when you write ll(1) in it it's fastest.
21:42 renormalist I have problems working in the pugs/ext/  subdir. I don't know how to use everything there autonomically outside the global Pugs makefile. I want do things like "perl Makefile.PL". "make test". Is this somewhere described?
21:43 renormalist currently I'm interested in how the tests are called.
21:43 renormalist make test doesn't do it right
21:44 gaal renormalist: in a pinch, just run make smoke instead
21:44 gaal this is worth fixing though
21:45 gaal you mean 'make test' doesn't descend into ext/ at all?
21:45 moritz renormalist: which module?
21:45 renormalist I want to only test my own little module. Is there an example somewhere
21:45 renormalist no in pugs yet. i struggle with basic class problems
21:45 renormalist maybe make test is ok, but another thing is worng with whateever,
21:46 gaal i think this may have been intentional, actually; once upon a time we were preflighting and the tests took too long so we didn't do ext/. (or am i imagining things?)
21:46 gaal renormalist: to test your own stuff, sidestep the makefile and harness issues, use prove or util/prove6
21:47 gaal could be that something isn't setting search paths correctly so it doesn't look at pugs/blib6/lib
21:47 renormalist ah, ok, porve6 works better
21:48 renormalist gaal: indeed, some path issues, but solved
21:48 gaal that would cause great slowdowns since the prelude will have to be parsed every hit, and possibly break things if someone's depending on someone else.
21:48 gaal okay, great
21:48 renormalist btw, how can I create makefile from makefile.PL
21:49 gaal I'm glad; it's the first time I see how prove6 is actually useful for someone
21:49 gaal "perl Makefile.PL"
21:49 renormalist hm, no. Without everything it creates a makefile that make complains about
21:50 renormalist from Pugs' make it generates other makefiles, that work
21:50 renormalist that was strange to find out, although now I know
21:50 renormalist you can test this with every module that has a :: in namespace.
21:50 renormalist in ext/
21:50 gaal then do the following: in ext/Whatever/Makefile.PL, near the top,
21:51 gaal { open my $e, ">", "/tmp/env.out" ; print "$_\t$ENV{$_}\n" for keys %ENV }
21:51 gaal and run top level make
21:52 gaal i bet it's PERL6LIB or something
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21:52 renormalist mkay, I understand ,will try
21:53 gaal I suddenly noticed it's late here, moose y'all tomorrow then...
21:53 gaal zZ&
21:53 Aankhen`` Nite.
21:55 moritz g'night
21:55 Aankhen`` gunihgt moritz
21:58 * moritz is not gooing to sleep right now, just wishing gaal one ;)
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22:01 Aankhen`` gunihgt moritz
22:02 Aankhen`` Sorry, stuck in infinite loop. :-(
22:05 moritz Aankhen``: infinte loops are not too bad, unless they take up too many resources ;)
22:06 Aankhen`` Hehe.
22:07 * moritz is in many semi-inifinte loops: eating, sleeping, hacking, learning...
22:07 moritz and I don't wish them to terminate too soon ;)
22:07 Aankhen`` Haha.
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23:17 bsb I've been thinking about anaphoric constructs recently too.  That's ones that maintain an implicit topic like $_
23:18 bsb I got the name fom Paul Graham's book, he implements and "aand" that remembers the LHS for the RHS, as "it" I think
23:18 offby1 (and (odd? x) (+ 1 it))
23:18 bsb For a moment I though .{ } could mean "call this closure with the think on the left"
23:18 offby1 something like that
23:19 bsb think so, i'll check
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23:21 bsb There's aand, aif, awhen, acond, eg. (aand (owner x) (address it) (town it))
23:21 bsb http://lib.store.yahoo.net/​lib/paulgraham/onlisp.lisp
23:22 bsb but .{} is a has deref for $_ right?
23:22 bsb maybe "-> { }", without a sig?
23:24 bsb anyway, I was thinking about it in the context of rules applied to trees, like writing an xml schema in p6rules
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