Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2007-06-06

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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03:36 Coke what's the name of the thing that's pointed at in for @joe -> $bag_o_donuts {stuff} ?
03:37 Aankhen`` Whatcha mean?
03:37 Aankhen`` Oh, $bag_o_donuts?
03:37 Aankhen`` I'm not sure.  Isn't it just a loop variable?
03:38 Tene a block parameter
03:38 Tene ?
03:40 * Aankhen`` shrugs.
03:44 Coke "loop variable" it is. lame, but servicable.
03:46 Jmax "Enterprise temporary reliable iterator variable container"
03:46 Jmax ... "With aliasing*"  "* only in Pugs Enterprise Edition"
03:48 Coke I'm trying to the 07-for.t sanity test passing on parrot.
03:48 Coke er, to *get*
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04:26 gaal it's indeed a block parameter, and more generally, -> SIG BLOCK
04:28 TimToady a functional programmer should probably be calling it a lambda parameter...
04:29 * Aankhen`` wonders if you could pass other types of Routine objects.
04:30 Aankhen`` (Routine is what all of them inherit from, right?)
04:31 TimToady sure, as long as you call it via statement_control:<for>(@list, &routine)
04:31 Aankhen`` Awww.
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05:07 Tene Okay, I've completely rebuilt pugs from scratch, and I'm still getting a segfault immediately on startup.
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05:09 pasteling "tene" at 24.2.71.129 pasted "pugs segfault" (27 lines, 2.5K) at http://sial.org/pbot/25385
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05:20 TimToady hmm, a SEGV at 0 often means that something tried to jump through a null pointer
05:21 TimToady but I'd guess the problem is likelier to be in libperl.so than in pugs
05:23 TimToady I wonder if it's possibly related to the problems I've been having with looping and slow tests on both FC6 and F7.  When was your last update?
05:25 Tene A couple of days ago.
05:25 Tene On FC
05:26 Tene Well, now on F, I suppose
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05:31 Coke http://nopaste.snit.ch:8001/10315
05:34 TimToady it's claiming that all 6 versions of Perl suck, I guess... :)
05:41 TimToady Tene: I wonder if it's finding the wrong libperl.so.  I have a sneaking suspicion they may have rearrange the library search order to put site_perl and vendor_perl before the top-level lib, and maybe there's an old libperl.so out there?
05:42 TimToady when I built my own perl and put it into /usr/local/bin and /usr/local/lib it ran fine
05:43 Caelum strace it and see where it dies
05:43 Tene Caelum: I posted an strace
05:43 Caelum oh duh
05:43 Tene Heh. :)
05:44 TimToady on my machine all the previous versions of libperl.so are symlinks to the 5.8.8 version
05:45 Caelum I noticed that there's an inconsistency in the pugs build process, if you do /usr/bin/perl Makefile.PL it uses that perl to link with, but in other parts it does just "perl Makefile.PL" using the perl in your path instead of the one it built with
05:45 TimToady but that hasn't changed since Jan
05:45 Tene also, I only have one perl
05:46 Caelum maybe I should fix this...
05:48 TimToady I don't think that can be this problem, since I'm having trouble on an F7 machine with only one perl
05:48 TimToady and I had no trouble when I did /usr/local/bin/perl Makefile.PL on my other machine
05:49 Caelum no, different problem...was just making an observation
05:49 Caelum it builds fine, but some of the extensions are built with "perl Makefile.PL"
05:50 TimToady as long as they don't try to link in a different perl...
05:50 TimToady could introduce some other subtle differences, I suppose
05:51 Caelum they do
05:59 * Caelum figured out how to build pugs without totally freezing his computer... turns out if I have folding@home running at the same time, the pugs build can't coexist with it
06:04 Aankhen`` Oh, I'd forgotten all about Folding@Home.
06:04 Aankhen`` I could probably speed up my builds if I'd just remember to turn it off.
06:05 TimToady it's just really weird that my FC6 machine slowed down at exactly the same time as my F7 machine...makes me think it isn't really fedora.  my yum update log doesn't show any thing perly...
06:05 TimToady though of course the F7 upgrade touched all kinds of stuff
06:05 amnesiac TimToady, FC is evil :(
06:05 amnesiac FC is the root of all evil :)
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06:33 TimToady of all the files pugs has open while running the slow test (propcharset takes 40 minutes), none of them has been updated recently except pugs.
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06:37 TimToady so I think it's either pugs or the linux kernel itself, which did get an update a few days ago
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07:02 Jmax should i test on openbsd?
07:03 TimToady nobody can stop you. :)
07:04 Jmax ok :)
07:10 Aankhen`` Jmax: Come on, no one sane tries to do anything on OpenBSD except route packets. ;-)
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07:22 thoughtpolice i use openbsd :(
07:22 thoughtpolice OpenBSD stormwind.youareinferior.net 4.1 GENERIC#104 i386
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07:26 unobe just did a 'make install' for r16634 and everything installed correctly into /Library/Perl/5.8.6/Perl6 and /Library/Perl6
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07:31 Tene audreyt++
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07:40 Jmax warning: implicit declaration of function `perl5_newSViv'
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07:41 Jmax from compiling Pugs.Parser.Charnames and Pugs.AST.Internals
07:41 Jmax there's a few of those for different functions
07:41 TimToady ignore
07:41 torz ello
07:42 Tene Hi, torz!
07:42 torz hey Tene :D
07:44 torz whats up?
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08:25 Jmax failed a few, seems to be stuck on t/examples/99problems/problem90
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08:25 Jmax oh, there it goes
08:30 Caelum yay, I made my first commit :)
08:31 Tene :D
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09:47 thoughtpolice Caelum: congrats :)
09:52 Aankhen`` Caelum: Welcome aboard. :-) Now please complete Perl 6.0.0, kthx.
09:55 moritz Caelum: did you add your name to the AUTHORS file? if not, please do it!
10:03 thoughtpolice where's svnbot6?
10:04 moritz thoughtpolice: gone with the wind :(
10:04 thoughtpolice :(
10:04 moritz thoughtpolice: same with specbot and evalbot
10:05 thoughtpolice a sad day
10:05 thoughtpolice i guess I must have missed the requiem
10:06 thoughtpolice at least lambdabot is still with us
10:06 Aankhen`` What good is it without a P6 eval?
10:07 moritz thoughtpolice: you missed it indeed: http://moritz.faui2k3.org/irclog/out.pl?channel=perl6;date=2007-06-05#id_l204
10:07 lambdabot Title: IRC log for #perl6, 2007-06-05, http://tinyurl.com/yo9vc5
10:07 Aankhen`` LOL.
10:07 * Aankhen`` takes a bow.
10:08 * Aankhen`` collapses and falls asleep.
10:11 thoughtpolice @remember Aankhen`` What good is it without a P6 eval?
10:11 lambdabot Done.
10:12 thoughtpolice :)
10:12 Aankhen`` o_O
10:12 Aankhen`` What does that do?
10:13 moritz wow, I want to be able to type english text while I'm sleeping too ;)
10:13 thoughtpolice @quote Aankhen``
10:13 lambdabot Aankhen`` says: What good is it without a P6 eval?
10:13 thoughtpolice that's what it does
10:13 Aankhen`` Heh.
10:13 Aankhen`` Neat.
10:13 thoughtpolice lambdabot is pretty fun :)
10:14 thoughtpolice http://www.cse.unsw.edu.au/~dons/code/lambdabot/COMMANDS
10:14 thoughtpolice there're some pretty useful commands in there
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10:17 moritz @slap thoughtpolice "Just a test"
10:17 * lambdabot beats up thoughtpolice "Just a test"
10:18 moritz nice one ;)
10:19 thoughtpolice :'[
10:19 thoughtpolice @tell moritz leave me alone
10:19 lambdabot Consider it noted.
10:19 thoughtpolice the useful thing about that is people can leave you memo's pretty easily :)
10:21 moritz thoughtpolice: that's what we use most of the time
10:21 lambdabot moritz: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
10:21 moritz @massages
10:21 lambdabot thoughtpolice said 1m 59s ago: leave me alone
10:22 thoughtpolice eval is one of the funnest though
10:23 * Aankhen`` heads to bed.
10:24 thoughtpolice there're some that're weird though
10:24 thoughtpolice @unlambda
10:24 lambdabot Done.
10:24 thoughtpolice :/
10:24 thoughtpolice @elite
10:24 lambdabot Say again?
10:24 thoughtpolice @elite test
10:24 lambdabot tes+
10:25 thoughtpolice hah.
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10:47 moritz I'm look at examples/mandel.pl
10:47 moritz loop ($L = 0;; $L++) { last() if $L > 0;
10:47 moritz $L is not modified in the body of the loop
10:47 moritz wtf is that?
10:53 masak moritz: looks like a fairly silly way of doing a one-pass loop
10:53 masak maybe it grew to look that way
10:54 moritz masak: seems like
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14:20 gaal fun project: since Pugs is cabalized, write a lambdabot plugin to it
14:20 gaal shouldn't be vry difficult even, just make sure to have the plug set PUGS_SAFEMODE.
14:28 lumi What does cabalization have to do with \b plugindom?
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15:49 gaal lumi: easy to link against pugs
15:49 gaal just -package pugs, import Pugs, call its -e or whatever
15:50 gaal iirc plugs, \bot's run dynamically moosed thing thing, handles limits
16:08 TimToady attempting to restart evalbot on feather
16:08 moritz TimToady++
16:09 TimToady but it's gonna have to recompile the world
16:10 avar 1
16:10 moritz "the world is not enough"
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16:30 spinclad ?eval say "I'm baaack"
16:30 evalbot_r16637 OUTPUT[I'm baaack␤] Bool::True
16:30 moritz YaY
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16:45 TimToady someone who is an operator needs to invite svnbot6
16:47 TimToady I don't know how to be an operator...
16:52 spinclad rather short on operators here...
16:54 spinclad sub prefix:<@> { .can('invite') }
16:54 [particle] i know audrey can op herself
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16:58 fglock I'm trying to understand  method &.(Match $m) {...}  in Perl-6.0.0-STD:132
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17:06 TimToady well, svnbot6 isn't gonna work in an svk directory in any case...
17:07 * wolverian wants a gitbot
17:07 fglock I can't tell what &.() is doing - is it declaring a method named from the match contents? (doesn't look so)
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17:08 wolverian I'd assume it's declaring a method named ".", the & being there to make the . a code name. but TimToady probably knows better...
17:08 TimToady see S13:144
17:09 fglock looking
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17:10 fglock aha
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17:19 gaal AFAIK only audreyt can op herself; I think we need her help if we want to, uh, viopdoers
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19:57 b_jonas hi,
19:57 moritz hi
19:58 b_jonas I'm asking a question about junctions that integral asked on #perl and we're disputing:
19:58 b_jonas in this code, how many times is the function called: sub f ($x) { $x == 3 ?? "hello" :: "goodbye" } f(2 | 3);
19:58 b_jonas the relevant passage from S09 is this:
19:59 b_jonas "In particular, if a junction is used as an argument to any routine (operator, closure, method, etc.), and the scalar parameter you are attempting to bind the argument to is inconsistent with the Junction type, that routine is "autothreaded", ..."
19:59 b_jonas but I don't know what "inconsistent" means there, that is, whether that simple declaration of the argument is inconsistent with junctions or not
19:59 [particle] seems to me that $x is untyped, so it can accept a Junction
20:00 b_jonas right, so it's called only once
20:00 b_jonas thanks
20:00 integral curiously I str the answer being the other way around originally: you have to explictly declare the type to include a junction to get a junction; so it'd be called twice.  I guess it's changed.
20:00 moritz I agree
20:01 PerlJam moritz: with whom?
20:01 [particle] i think my $x is like saying my Any $x
20:01 moritz PerlJam: with [particle]
20:01 [particle] where Any is the base type
20:01 moritz PerlJam: nobody else answered the question ;)
20:02 PerlJam sorry, I was threading #perl and #perl6  :)
20:03 moritz no problem ;)
20:03 PerlJam aha!
20:03 PerlJam S02: Any         Perl 6 object (default parameter type, excludes Junction)
20:04 [particle] hrmm
20:04 b_jonas ooh
20:04 PerlJam b_jonas: so, again.  My answer is f() gets called twice  :)
20:04 [particle] perljam: you sank my battleship!
20:04 b_jonas wow
20:05 integral so I remembered right.  I guess my brain's not that tired yet
20:05 b_jonas so what about sub f () { $_[0] == 3 ?? "hello" :: "goodbye" } f(2 | 3);
20:05 b_jonas um
20:05 b_jonas so what about sub f () { @_[0] == 3 ?? "hello" :: "goodbye" } f(2 | 3);
20:05 b_jonas I mean
20:05 [particle] huh?
20:05 PerlJam b_jonas: that's an error.  You've declared that your subroutine takes no parameters, but you've given it one
20:05 moritz what about sub f { $^val == 3 ?? "foo" :: "bar" } ?
20:05 b_jonas oh
20:06 b_jonas yeah, I'm stupid
20:06 PerlJam moritz: that's another Any type.
20:06 moritz PerlJam: are $^ variables always Any?
20:08 PerlJam moritz: AFAIK
20:08 bpalmer` so how would you declare that a variable could be a junction or not, you don't care? Or do you just declare it a Junction and accept a junction of one ?
20:09 PerlJam bpalmer`: eh?
20:09 PerlJam sub foo (Junction|Any) { ... }  # there's some irony there :)
20:09 integral sub foo (Any|Junction $foo) { ... }
20:09 bpalmer` ah
20:10 [particle] Whatever
20:10 [particle] actually, it's my Object $foo
20:10 PerlJam [particle]: if you mean that it's typed as Whatever, I don't think so.
20:11 PerlJam right.
20:11 [particle] but Whatever sounds cleverer
20:11 [particle] ererer
20:11 b_jonas PerlJam: thanks for cleating it up then
20:12 PerlJam b_jonas: thanks for making me look at the docs :-)  I need to do that every once in a while
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20:52 dduncan svnbot appears to be down
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21:05 moritz dduncan++ # adding ext/Muldis-DB/
21:05 dduncan better name, no?
21:05 moritz better than QDIDONTKNOWHOWTOSPELLIT
21:13 dduncan indeed
21:13 dduncan the previous name was bad on purpose and meant to be temporary, the new name is meant to be quasi-permanent
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23:53 Coke I have a p6-like rule (PGE) for a pointy_block:
23:53 Coke token pblock { <?ws> [<'->'> <?ws> <signature> <?ws>]? <block>
23:53 Coke }
23:53 Coke ... is there a way in PGE/rules to make the signature read as if it were a literal $_ if that optional []? doesn't match at all?
23:54 Coke (got the explicit -> version parsing and passing in parrot now. Trying to sneak the default as $_ in.)
23:58 TimToady usually such annotation would be done in semantic analysis rather than faking it up syntactically.  That's what STD.pm assumes with '->'
23:59 TimToady so first chance is in the closure attached to the rule as its "action"

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