Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2007-06-13

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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00:16 bsb gweilo too
00:25 TimToady well, specbot6 and svnbot6 are sitting there waiting to be invited, if anyone can figger out how...
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00:25 Tene /msg specbot6 ?join #perl6
00:25 Tene /msg svnbot6 ?join #perl6
00:25 TimToady ah
00:26 TimToady so...intuitively obvious...
00:27 Tene It is if you read the code. >.>
00:28 TimToady but I don't know perl6 yet...
00:34 [particle] TimToady: write once, read many.
00:35 moritz TimToady: why didn't you design perl 6 to be a read only language? ie a self-writing one ;)
00:36 SamB moritz: how would you get it to write the programs that you want to read?
00:36 [particle] good idea... optimize the write op away
00:36 moritz SamB: I don't know, I'm not a language designer ;)
00:36 TimToady Tene: thanks, btw
00:36 Tene np
00:43 drowned ?eval class Chozzle1 {has $a;method set_a { $b = 1 }} my $c1 = Chozzle1.new; $c1.set_a;
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00:44 evalbot_r16655 \1
00:44 drowned class Chozzle {has $a;method set_a { $::a = 1 }} my $c = Chozzle.new; $c.set_a;
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00:45 drowned ?eval class Chozzle {has $a;method set_a { $::a = 1 }} my $c = Chozzle.new; $c.set_a;
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04:00 dduncan I got some curious output on the last Pugs command line ...
04:00 dduncan ?eval sub subish (:$fuzz) { say "got $fuzz"; }
04:00 evalbot_r16655 undef
04:00 dduncan it printed out a ream of stuff, originally
04:03 pasteling "dduncan" at 24.69.53.198 pasted "that ream of stuff" (67 lines, 2.4K) at http://sial.org/pbot/25524
04:06 dduncan that ream looks sort of like the AST for the sub I declared, plus a bunch of environmental stuff
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04:32 svnbot6 r16656 | Darren_Duncan++ | ext/Muldis-DB/ : in Operators.pm, updated the way subs take args ; in mainly Validator.pm, updated named arg syntax
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05:06 meppl good morning
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05:36 gaal in the block-comment Syn update, "The entire final line counts as part of the comment". Does this imply that something after the closing delimiter but on the same line as it is taken as part of the comment?
05:37 TimToady yes
05:37 gaal also, must block comments start in the first column, or is leading whitespace allowed? the text suggests it must be flush to the margin.
05:37 TimToady must be flush, or it's an embedded comment instead
05:38 gaal what's the motivation for counting code outside the closing delimiter as if it were in it?
05:39 gaal (sorry if this has been discussed here, I haven't backlogged yet)
05:39 TimToady the line is the delimiter, not the "#}"
05:40 TimToady the reasoning is that that's what line-ending comments would do too.
05:40 TimToady so it still works identically with # in front of all the lines
05:41 gaal but then if I nudge the comment opening marker a bit and it becomes an embedded comment, suddenly that trailing code becomes not-a-comment, right?
05:41 TimToady you win a few, you lose a few...
05:41 TimToady just don't put code after an initial }   :)
05:42 gaal let's add a layout rule to Perl :-p
05:42 gaal (since we have whitespace sensitivity anyway
05:42 gaal )
05:42 TimToady sure, as long as you predeclare it with "use Python;"  :P
05:43 gaal hey, haskell has a totally nice layout rule
05:43 gaal because it's easy to turn it off when you want
05:43 TimToady definitely turns me off :)
05:44 gaal well, I have to say this comment-opener surprises me, then!
05:44 gaal but I probably have to think on it some more<tm>.
05:48 svnbot6 r16657 | lwall++ | [STD.pm] cheated version parses again
05:58 unobe_away changed the nick to unobe
05:58 Alias_ sigh... one of these days I'm going to have CPAN 1.5 in good enough shape to start on CPAN 2
05:59 Alias_ I do, however, increasingly think the "layer" approach will work the best for the Perl 6 "core" definition
06:00 Alias_ (if nobody else has been dealing with that yet)
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11:01 * Tene needs to come up with a decent project idea to use to start implementing Web and HTTP to support
11:01 * Tene needs sleep before that, though.
11:01 akreal good night Tene!
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11:27 thoughtpolice morning everybody. :)
11:31 akreal thoughtpolice: good morning!
11:31 moritz foo everybody! ;)
11:39 gaal Tene: port svk to p6? :)
11:40 moritz gaal: I don't think you need Web and HTTP for that (these two modules, I mean)
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11:51 gaal Not Web, perhaps, but why not HTTP?
11:52 gaal (And there are course plenty of support apps you could write that might employ Web.pm)
11:53 moritz ah right, sv(n|k) uses HTTP 1.1
11:56 lumi What would Web be?
11:57 moritz lumi: a kind of advanced CGI module I guess
11:57 lumi Something like the HTML parts of CGI.pm? Or ...?
11:57 gaal lumi: ext/Web, a less ad-hoc CGI.pm
11:58 gaal there's just a sketch there
11:59 lumi Yeah, I'm looking
12:01 lumi Do we have no way of making enums/tagged-unions other than '$x where { $_ eq any <a b c> }
12:01 lumi '
12:01 lumi ?
12:02 lumi g
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12:02 lumi Sorry, wrong window, that last single character
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12:05 svnbot6 r16658 | agentz++ | Makefile.PL - worked around GHC version numbers like 6.6.1 (reported by laye++)
12:08 thoughtpolice svnbot lives again?!
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12:15 gaal there's an interesting enum spec in one of the latter Syns, but it's not implemented
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12:23 gaal lumi: I think it was waiting on MO, actually. If you want to implement it, now may be a good time.
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12:48 lumi It's a bit creepy that it looks at your identifier case to decide whether the representation should be boxed
12:49 gaal location?
12:50 gaal but that's how types are arranged in Perl 6; int vs. Int etc.
12:51 lumi True, and yet
12:51 gaal ah, "If the declared type name begins with an uppercase letter, the default type is Int or Str, depending on the type of the first value. If the declared type is lowercase, the default return type is int or buf."
12:51 gaal I didn't remember that
12:51 lumi See, creepy
12:51 gaal # http://perlcabal.org/syn/S12.html#Enums
12:51 lambdabot Title: S12
12:52 lumi Also, why are they not an actual type, but only aliases to Str/Int?
12:52 lumi (or str/int, as the case may be)
12:53 gaal "A given enum value can function as a subtype"
12:55 lumi Ah so
12:59 gaal gotta moose&
13:07 nipotan changed the nick to nipotaway
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13:10 rindolf Hi all.
13:10 rindolf eval: my $h = "Hello"; @a= map { "$_\n" } sort { lc($a) cmp lc($b) } ("Hi","Lo","$h\n"); [@a]
13:10 buubot rindolf:  ['hello  ','Hi ','Lo ']
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13:51 ayrnieu eval: given my $h = "Hello" { [map { "$_\n" } sort { lc $a cmp lc $b } <<Hi Lo $h\n>>] }
13:51 buubot ayrnieu: Error: syntax error at eval line 1, near "#line 1 eval       given my "  
13:51 ayrnieu oh well.
13:54 ayrnieu er.
13:54 ayrnieu @evalgiven my $h = "Hello" { [map { "$_\n" } sort { lc $a cmp lc $b } <<Hi Lo $h\n>>] }
13:54 lambdabot Unknown command, try @list
13:55 ayrnieu ?eval given my $h = "Hello" { [map { "$_\n" } sort { lc $a cmp lc $b } <<Hi Lo $h\n>>] }
13:55 evalbot_r16655 changed the nick to evalbot_r16658
13:55 evalbot_r16658 Error: ␤Unexpected "["␤expecting "use", statements or "}"
13:56 Juerd rindolf: Interesting bug
13:56 ayrnieu ?eval [<a b>]
13:56 evalbot_r16658 ["a", "b"]
13:56 ayrnieu well, that's just odd then.
13:56 lumi ?eval given "Hello" -> $h { map { "$_\n" } sort { <<Hi Lo $h>>.sort({ lc $^a cmp lc $^b }).map: { "$_\n" } }
13:57 evalbot_r16658 Error: ␤Unexpected "sort"␤expecting ",", ":", operator or "}"
13:57 lumi Ehm
13:57 lumi ?eval given "Hello" -> $h { <<Hi Lo $h>>.sort({ lc $^a cmp lc $^b }).map: { "$_\n" } }
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13:57 evalbot_r16658 ("Hello\n", "Hi\n", "Lo\n")
13:58 ayrnieu ?eval given "Hello" -> $h { [<<Hi Lo $h>>.sort({ lc $^a cmp lc $^b }).map: { "$_\n" }] }
13:59 evalbot_r16658 ["Hello\n", "Hi\n", "Lo\n"]
14:00 ayrnieu (Bad syntax results in fictitious declaration of bad syntax.)
14:01 Juerd Doesn't : work correctly yet?
14:02 Juerd ?eval given "Hello" -> $h { [ <<Hi Lo $h>>.sort:{ lc $^a cmp lc $^b }.map:{ "$_\n" } ] }
14:02 lumi That should work?
14:02 evalbot_r16658 ["Hello\n", "Hi\n", "Lo\n"]
14:02 Juerd IIRC
14:03 lumi Pugs agrees
14:03 Juerd ?eval given "Hello" -> $h { [ <<Hi Lo $h>>.sort:{ .lc }.map:{ "$_\n" } ] }
14:03 evalbot_r16658 ["Hi\n", "Lo\n", "Hello\n"]
14:03 Juerd argless .sort doesn't work yet, apparently :)
14:04 Juerd ?eval given "Hello" -> $h { <<Hi Lo $h>>.sort:{ $^a.lc cmp $^b.lc }.map:{ "$_\n" } }
14:04 evalbot_r16658 ("Hello\n", "Hi\n", "Lo\n")
14:04 Juerd ?eval [ given "Hello" -> $h { <<Hi Lo $h>>.sort:{ $^a.lc cmp $^b.lc }.map:{ "$_\n" } } ]
14:04 lumi Almost argless, anyway
14:04 evalbot_r16658 Error: ␤Unexpected "["␤expecting program␤postfix op
14:05 lumi Is this because 'given' is a statement?
14:06 ayrnieu 'given' has a return value; otherwise it may as well be perl5's for.
14:07 ayrnieu That error message, given the recent history of my evaluations, only says that 'some kind of syntax error occurred anywhere in your code after this point'
14:07 lumi Maybe this is like what Gaal was saying, that there's not enough <?> in the parser
14:08 lumi I mean, not enough named constructions, I guess?
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14:15 fglock Alias_: what you mean 'the "layer" approach will work the best for the Perl 6 "core" definition' - it's about CPAN?
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14:36 moritz lumi: soory, I can't /msg on freenode...
14:37 moritz lumi: and I don't know anything about Convert::Binary::C anyway :(
14:38 lumi moritz: k, thanks anyway :)
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15:52 riffraff hi
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16:06 gaal lumi: most rules in Parser begin with rule "moose" $ do ...real rule...
16:06 gaal that's just \r -> do { (<?> "moose") r ; whiteSpace }
16:07 gaal (the convention is "verbatim" doesn't eat trailing whitespace, "rule" does)
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16:26 riffraff how is the plan to support per-object roles?
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16:27 riffraff ruby-like hidden class in the lookup hierarchy?
16:27 svnbot6 r16659 | agentz++ | checked in docs/zh-cn/S01.pod which is a Chinese transcript for S01
16:28 moritz agentz++
16:28 gaal anonymous classes, yes
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16:34 riffraff I see
16:35 nothingmuch audreyt: ping
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16:35 nothingmuch locale::maketext::lexicon's s/\\\*(?=[^*]+$)/\([-\\w]+\)/g or next; makes no sense to me
16:36 nothingmuch why aren't subsequent wilds allowed? i would replace just the first with the lang capture, and then leave the rest of em
16:36 nothingmuch which are handled by the next s///;
16:36 nothingmuch tell me if i can remove the $ assertion and rerelease
16:37 gaal nothingmuch: moose
16:37 nothingmuch moose
16:37 nothingmuch coming to steffi's on fri?
16:37 gaal no, can't make it :(
16:37 nothingmuch dueu to transportation or other?
16:38 nothingmuch i might be able to arrange a solution if the first
16:38 gaal other
16:38 gaal but thanks
16:38 nothingmuch ah well
16:38 nothingmuch i will relay a cold, heartless goodbye on your behalf
16:38 gaal please do
16:38 nothingmuch if i remember ;-)
16:39 gaal you mean you might forget and relay a warm, effluently kind farewell instead? that also works
16:40 nothingmuch i forget
16:40 nothingmuch maybe i meant that I might not remember to show up
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16:40 svnbot6 r16660 | agentz++ | oops...added the Makefile for real this time
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16:46 svnbot6 r16661 | agentz++ | updated docs/feather/script/update-syn to auto-html-ify docs/zh-cn/syn/*.pod
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17:01 svnbot6 r16662 | agentz++ | docs/zh-cn/syn/Makefile - specified --index when invoking podhtm
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18:44 svnbot6 r16663 | lwall++ | [STD.pm] nested block comments now handled
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20:00 svnbot6 r16664 | moritz++ | minor corrections in debian/pugs.docs and debian/pugs-modules.install
20:08 riffraff joined #perl6
20:09 riffraff hi everyone
20:09 fglock hi
20:09 moritz hi
20:16 avarab_ changed the nick to avar
20:17 gaal aiieeeee r14420 appeals to a _brace_ style? that really looks wrong to me -- and that particular brace style happens the one I use, myself
20:19 gaal I forget who it was that proposed languages should mandate a particular style and make all others compile errors. The idea being not to advocate that author's preffered stlye, but to eliminate the holy wars.
20:20 gaal s/fer/err/
20:21 gaal also, what happens when there's an if/else in this style?
20:24 riffraff gaal, I think there is something like that in object oriented software construction
20:24 riffraff but it's more like "no language should have feature such that you have to tell 'this should not be done usually' "
20:25 riffraff WRT public member variables, and blaming C++ IIRC
20:25 gaal heh
20:25 Tene "system('rm -rf /'); # This should not be done usually"
20:27 gaal actually, it should _never_ be done. the correct thing is to turn off swap and dd if=/dev/urandom of=/dev/hda :-p
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20:33 riffraff Tene, yay for languages withouth access to esystem
20:33 riffraff I always said that
20:33 thoughtpolice while you're at it you might as well cat /dev/urandom > /dev/dsp
20:33 Tene cat /dev/dsp > /dev/hda
20:33 riffraff exec* is a bad family of functions
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20:35 gaal "real programmers dd if=/dev/dsp of=a.out and whistle"
20:39 gaal or, if we're getting nostalgic: "Real Programmers dd if=/dev/urandom of=a.out and influence the Universal Randomosity Field"
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20:41 Aankh|Clone changed the nick to Aankhen``
20:43 b_jonas that doesn't really work in programming but the physicist students do use a very similar method for when they have to hand in experiment log homeworks
20:44 meppl good night
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21:03 svnbot6 r16665 | lwall++ | [STD] unhide pod inside block comments
21:03 TimToady gaal: r14420 is merely making allowances for that style, not mandating it.
21:12 TimToady as far as I can see, the only style that the new rules make life difficult for would be people who puts single-line blocks flush against the left margin, since commenting such a line would introduce #{ with no corresponding #} line.
21:13 TimToady but that seems like a rarity, and you can always comment with '# ' or ## in that case
21:25 DrSlump joined #perl6
21:25 DrSlump hello
21:27 Tene Or we could get even more awkward and make block comments not work if the preceding and trailing lines also begin with #
21:27 Tene ;)
21:27 Tene DrSlump: Hi!
21:34 DrSlump hi tene
21:35 Tene DrSlump: you new here?
21:35 DrSlump anybody in europe here?
21:35 DrSlump tene: not really, and yet the best answer would be no... ;)
21:35 Tene Heh.
21:36 DrSlump i'm following the p6* mailling lists for several years
21:37 DrSlump yet i'm far from sure i can help
21:37 b_jonas europe?
21:37 DrSlump yeah
21:37 DrSlump i'm trying a new free-phone-calls
21:37 DrSlump http://freecallcentral.com/
21:38 DrSlump my phone number is:
21:38 DrSlump 003263226355
21:41 DrSlump b_jonas: could you try to call me?
21:41 b_jonas no, sorry
21:41 DrSlump k
21:41 b_jonas perhaps ask on a bigger channel
21:42 DrSlump I'm doing that already ;)
21:42 DrSlump it's funny
21:42 DrSlump it works in fact
21:43 DrSlump Tene: what are you trying to do?
21:43 Tene DrSlump: I don't understand the question.
21:44 DrSlump <Tene> Or we could get even more awkward and make block comments not work if the preceding and trailing lines also begin with #
21:44 DrSlump ?
21:46 Tene DrSlump: it was a non-serious response to a statement a little while before you joined.
21:46 Tene http://irc.pugscode.org/ has logs
21:48 DrSlump oh,  hehe "system('rm -rf /'); # This should not be done usually"...
21:48 DrSlump sorry
21:48 thoughtpolice yeah, i mean, it's okay to run every time you need some additional space and all
21:48 thoughtpolice :)
21:50 DrSlump no at all it's a special command when "/" is cluttered with "bin", "sbin", "usr", and such that dont serves anything
21:53 DrSlump rm -Rf is the way to leave purgatory clean, well if someone can leave the purgatory cleanly... i heard of a cat that left it really damaged, greebo he was called...,
21:55 DrSlump he is against all the evidence, a sweet, harmless kitten: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greebo
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22:39 Aankh|Clone changed the nick to Aankhen``
22:51 moritz YaY, revision 16666
22:51 svnbot6 r16666 | moritz++ | [irclog] template and documentation update
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