Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2007-06-16

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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04:21 svnbot6 r16674 | Darren_Duncan++ | ext/Muldis-DB/ : added new file TODO to summarize needs of the MDB core distro post version zero
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04:30 japhb dduncan: last time I did an apples-to-apples comparison of P5 and P6 code, I found Pugs to be about 1000x slower than perl.
04:32 japhb That was after the pad refactor merge, but before any further merging that audreyt may have done (since svnbot6 has been so spotty, I have no idea if she ever got around to the O(1) pad and MO merges, both of which had a pretty good chance of affecting my performance)
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04:47 dduncan japhb, thanks for your observations
04:48 dduncan how big was the code base you tested?
04:49 dduncan speaking conservatively, I would say the one I tested was about 100KB, not including docs/comments
04:50 dduncan that is, each version was about its own 100KB
04:51 dduncan this all said, regardless of numbers, there certainly feels like a world of difference in speed right now
05:03 meppl good morning
05:04 dduncan uhu
05:06 meppl uhu uhu
05:06 meppl ^0,0^
05:06 meppl ()_()              
05:06 meppl  ~ ~
05:06 meppl :D
05:06 meppl good morning dduncan
05:08 offby1 an owl!
05:09 meppl yea!
05:09 meppl good morning offby
05:09 meppl 1
05:13 dduncan actually, the "uhu" I said was meant to be pronounced "uh-huh"
05:14 dduncan an ack, if you will
05:15 dduncan anyway, it is actually evening here, after 10pm, and I'm about to bed ... should be back here in 10-12h
05:15 dduncan but will be online for maybe an hour first
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05:25 meppl ;)
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06:53 japhb dduncan: around 16 K, pretty much all code.
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08:10 agentzh howdy, everyone :)
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08:11 agentzh i'm working on the slides for my talk on YAPC::Beijing 2007.
08:11 agentzh it's named "Contribute to Pugs" :)
08:15 buu agentzh: Does it involve a pointy stick?
08:16 agentzh pointy stick?
08:16 buu Yes.
08:17 agentzh is there any special meaning for "pointy stick"?
08:18 agentzh i'm not a native speaker :P
08:18 jql it's a primitive weapon
08:18 jql slightly more advanced than picking up a rock
08:18 agentzh heh
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08:23 spinclad to use for poking, to get people to contribute
08:23 agentzh this morning i visited Yahoo China and i'm happy to see the team leader there is also a perl monger.
08:24 spinclad nice
08:24 agentzh he asked me when perl 6 will be out and he had got a bit impatient ;)
08:24 agentzh s/will/would/
08:24 spinclad 'can't wait for christmas! want my presents NOW!'
08:24 agentzh LOL
08:25 agentzh almost like that. heh
08:26 spinclad this is the False Impatience
08:26 agentzh he told me that he learned OCaml because the "camel" thing made him believe that it must have something to do with Perl.
08:27 spinclad an accidental benefit to him then
08:27 agentzh indeed.
08:27 agentzh now they're running a perl + ocaml + js platform for their backend system.
08:28 agentzh back to JIT slide-making &
08:38 daxim ocaml, hah.  given yahoo's history, they will be rewriting it in less than five years
08:38 moritz re
08:38 moritz good morning
08:39 daxim that's the story of p.g., he sold his webshop (in lisp) and became rich
08:39 daxim problem was, no one knew how to maintain that, so the buyers rewrote it in php
08:40 moritz d'oh
08:45 daxim jeez, was that really nine years ago?   the time, it flies... http://www.internetnews.com​/bus-news/article.php/21001
08:45 lambdabot Title: Yahoo! to Acquire Viaweb
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09:09 * Aankhen`` pokes agentzh.
09:09 Aankhen`` agentzh: You still seeing that strange onload behaviour in the smartlinked pages?
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09:18 sunnavy I'll go to the YAPC::Beijing 2007 tomorrow, :-)
09:19 sunnavy to check out what chinese perl mongers like, aha.
09:20 moritz have fun ;)
09:20 moritz and spread the perl 6 message ;)
09:21 moritz which is "perl 6 is cool, so please contribute" ;)
09:21 sunnavy :-) I'll try that, aha.
09:22 moritz the "perl 6 is cool" part is the more important, actually
09:22 sunnavy In fact I wrote some things about this called Perl 6 glimpse.
09:23 sunnavy last year
09:23 uno_be changed the nick to unobe
09:23 sunnavy In china, BBS is more popular than IRC, my posts were all there.
09:24 daxim link please
09:24 moritz ?eval for 1..4 { say $^a, $^b }
09:25 sunnavy Oh, I haven't finished yet.
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09:25 evalbot_r16674 OUTPUT[12␤34␤] undef
09:25 sunnavy you can find something here: http://www.newsmth.net/bbs0an.php?p=226-5-3
09:25 lambdabot Title: ����������
09:25 unobe changed the nick to unobe_away
09:25 moritz that title doesn't seem to be in UTF-8 ;)
09:25 sunnavy gb2312 encoded
09:25 daxim ouch, lambdabot can't handle 国标
09:26 Aankhen`` daxim: As pointed out, it's gb2312.  lambdabot appears to assume UTF-8.
09:26 sunnavy I can't help, the BBS server handled this, :-)
09:26 moritz ?eval map { $^a => $^b }, 1..4
09:26 evalbot_r16674 Error: Cannot cast from VList [VInt 1,VInt 2,VInt 3,VInt 4] to Pugs.AST.Internals.VCode (VCode)
09:26 Aankhen`` Or maybe lambdabot is sending gb2312 and the client assumes it's UTF-8.
09:27 moritz Aankhen``: that's more likeliy
09:27 Aankhen`` :-)
09:27 sunnavy I use utf8 on my own box, you can check it out here:
09:27 sunnavy http://svn.sunnavy.org/record​s/browse/note/perl/p6_glimpse
09:27 daxim nah, it's the server's fault
09:27 daxim HEAD -USe http://www.newsmth.net/bbs0an.php?p=226-5-3|grep Type
09:27 daxim Content-Type: text/html
09:28 Aankhen`` <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=gb2312"/>
09:28 moritz my irc logs garbeled the title as well :(
09:29 Aankhen`` Heh.
09:29 daxim irc = teh suck anyway, no encoding mechanism at all
09:29 Aankhen`` I bet most applications would garble mixed encodings.
09:29 sunnavy I need update them, since synopses have been updated, while my glimpses were done last year.
09:30 Aankhen`` Oooh, might need a fair bit of updating.
09:30 sunnavy I think so, ;-)
09:30 * moritz tries if Encode::Guess can handle gp2312
09:30 daxim cool.  I always wanted to be able to say impressive words like "multiparadigmatic"
09:30 Aankhen`` daxim: LOL.
09:30 daxim nope, moritz
09:31 daxim half of the time it thinks it's hebrew
09:31 moritz daxim: have you tried?
09:31 daxim yes
09:31 moritz well, if hebrew is not on my list, the chances are better, aren't they?
09:31 daxim there's another guessing module specialised on CJK only.  it has never failed me so far
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09:32 moritz ok, you're right
09:32 moritz I'll leave it at that, one weird looking line is acceptable
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09:34 sunnavy If somebody ask me when Perl 6 will be out, how should I reply?
09:34 Aankhen`` When it's done, mais oui. ;-)
09:35 moritz sunnavy: by christmas, of course ;)
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09:36 daxim most of the time, I use Encode::Detect, but CharsetDetector for my media file tags.  then there's also Encode::HanDetect, rather limited usefulness
09:36 sunnavy oh, that will disappoint them.
09:36 daxim mozilla++, because they figured out the difficult stuff already
09:37 sunnavy they were disappointed at last Christmas, I have to say, :-(
09:38 daxim I wish taglib wouldn't be so 'orrible broken.  if I make it to vienna this year, I ought to lightning-rant about it
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10:06 daxim sunnavy, do you have any idea why 马东旭 won't come?
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10:21 sunnavy daxim: I don't know him. Who's that?
10:22 daxim DONGXU on cpan
10:23 sunnavy daxim: sorry, I've no idea.
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12:38 aharoni oh my
12:38 svnbot6 r16675 | aharoni++ | tabs to spaces and added my own entry
12:38 aharoni my first commit
12:42 rindolf Hi aharoni
12:43 aharoni hi
12:44 aharoni BRB - i'm playing with my little niece :)
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13:10 ddwagnz howdy
13:11 moritz hi
13:12 ddwagnz does TimToady ever speak?
13:13 moritz yes
13:13 ddwagnz real
13:13 ddwagnz whoah
13:13 moritz see the irc logs at irc.pugscode.org
13:13 moritz check yesterday's logs
13:14 ddwagnz ok
13:14 ddwagnz my goodness he does!
13:15 ddwagnz lets see for any off topic chatter!
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13:18 ddwagnz nup, none, oh well
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13:34 spinclad oh, occassionally
13:35 spinclad s/ss/s/
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13:59 pipping Hi. quick question, is it possible to compile pugs with a haskell that's a little bit more lightweight than ghc? ;)
14:00 pipping ( e.g. http://www.haskell.org/nhc98/ ) ?
14:00 lambdabot Title: nhc98
14:01 moritz pipping: I doubt it :(
14:01 moritz pipping: but you could try, and tell us about your experience ;)
14:02 pipping moritz: heh. i guess i might do that ;)
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14:02 pipping bbl
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14:06 aharoni is there a version of GHC especially for cygwin, or should i just use the regular Win32 GHC installer from the cygwin shell?
14:08 aharoni i mean install GHC from the regular installer and _then_ use it from the cygwin shell
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14:09 gaal aharoni: wow, I haven't tried building in GHC in a while. Basically: use the regular win32 GHC, and use it from the cygwin shell, yes
14:09 * moritz doesn't know
14:09 gaal this may need some love though.
14:09 gaal *in cygwin
14:10 gaal you may have better success with a native win32 perl5, for example any of activeperl, strawberry perl, or a perl you had built yourself
14:11 aharoni it's a terrible pain to install CPAN modules with ActivePerl.
14:11 gaal i can confirm the last choice works with a perl5 built with the free microsoft tools
14:11 aharoni cygwin perl has its issues with CPAN, but not as bad as ActivePerl
14:11 gaal aharoni: then give strawberry perl a whirl
14:12 gaal that also worked for me
14:12 gaal i mean, there's no innate reason why it *shouldn't* work for you with cygwin, so perhaps yes, try that first :)
14:12 aharoni i haven't tried building all of pugs, but simple stuff GHCi stuff works
14:13 gaal but be prepared to tweak the makefile and util/ to probably add cygpath directives here and there in forgotten places
14:13 aharoni am i the first one to try it??
14:14 gaal certainly not! but i don't know if anyone did it in a while.
14:14 aharoni well, i'll tell you how it went ...
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14:15 gaal that doesn't look as if it went well :/
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16:45 TimToady @tell ddwagnz I never chatter off topic...
16:45 lambdabot Consider it noted.
16:46 TimToady Argh!  I woke up with Tristram and Isolde in my head this morning, and now my brain is better than it sounds!
16:46 moritz Tristram?
16:46 TimToady Wagner
16:47 * moritz always thought he'd be spelled "Tristan"
16:47 TimToady could be
16:47 moritz ok ;)
16:47 moritz it's easier for me, wagner wrote in German ;)
16:48 TimToady google agrees with you.
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16:50 TimToady ah, it also occurs as Tristram
16:50 TimToady http://www.bartleby.com/65/tr/Tristram.html
16:50 lambdabot Title: Tristram and Isolde. The Columbia Encyclopedia, Sixth Edition. 2001-05
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16:51 TimToady so when I played it the title was probably anglicized
16:52 TimToady "The names of the two chief characters appear in various forms, such as Tristran, Tristrem, or Tristan and Isolt, Yseult, or Iseult."
16:53 moritz ok, in German only "Tristan und Isolde" is commonly used ;)
16:54 moritz tomorrow I'll have google referers in the logs searching for Operas ;)
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17:33 gaal were you conflating with Tristram Shandy?
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17:34 * moritz ?
17:34 moritz I just confused /quit with /leave in irssi :(
17:34 TimToady no, see my linked article
17:36 TimToady I really did learn it as Tristram and Isolde.
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17:36 gaal A Sterne influence would have been amusing, though...
17:39 TimToady considering T&I is a medieval story, any influence probably went the other direction
17:40 TimToady but it's also possible the old name mutated in the direction of a more familiar name over time
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17:41 TimToady or was just confused
17:41 TimToady It's really amazing how many chinese characters arose by confusion with other characters...
17:41 gaal I was referring to an influence on your choice of spelling, but never mind :)
17:41 TimToady I know, which is why I said "the other direction"
17:42 gaal is it? I mean, much change in language is caused by what contemporaries might call mistakes, no?
17:43 TimToady but I really don't know enough about the history of the names to know if they're one name that diverged or two names that converged
17:43 TimToady I think most change is caused by kids hearing what their parents say but reanalyzing it differently in their heads.
17:44 TimToady not sure I'd call that a "mistake"
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19:19 prism bbs
19:34 * masak first read amnesiac's nick as "insomniac", which made the above message a lot funnier
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19:44 Entonian ai
19:44 Entonian oops, sorry
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22:28 bamar hola
22:28 Tene Hi!
22:28 moritz moin
22:29 offby1 mrgn stnly
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22:38 jisom anyone here had luck with pugs on freebsd/amd64?
22:45 bamar I just built pugs on ubuntu Feisty x86_64
22:46 Tene bamar: fun!  what are you planning to do with it?
22:47 bamar Just starting to play around with it .. would like to code some perl5 programs in pugs
22:48 Tene pugs is for Perl 6, why do you want to use it for Perl 5?
22:49 bamar sorry that didn't come out right , port perl5 programs into perl6 !
22:49 Tene Ahh.
22:49 Tene That sounds like fun! :D
22:49 moritz yes ;)
22:50 * avar wants M::I for p6
22:51 Limbic_Region M::I?
22:51 avar Module::Install
22:51 Limbic_Region oh
22:51 Patterner Mission::Impossible
22:51 Limbic_Region Patterner++
22:55 jisom does pugs require ghci?
22:55 moritz I'm not sure, but ghc should be enough
22:55 jisom well the Setup.lhs gives me a "Failed to load interface for `Prelude':" error
22:57 bamar I believe it does
22:57 * jisom sighs, no pugs or lambdabot
22:57 bamar on ubuntu i got the same error when i installed "just pugs" i got a similar error
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23:17 moritz Maybe pugs = Nothing | Just pugs
23:17 moritz ;-)
23:24 moritz I'm looking for a haskell tutorial with many _usefull_ examples
23:24 moritz for example with parsing log files or other stuff that you'd normally do in perl
23:50 moritz TimToady++ # salomonic solution to the m/^=/ problem
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