Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2007-06-19

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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Time Nick Message
00:07 Jmax joined #perl6
00:09 obra I have a question for folks interested in hacking on docs
00:09 obra anyone around?
00:10 * moritz
00:10 moritz I like to form heavy objects out of printed docs and hack on my screen with them ;)
00:11 obra moritz: ORA's book on perl6 and parrot has just been opensourced. (perl6 and parrot essentials)
00:11 obra we now have the source under Artistic 2
00:11 obra if it got checked into the pugs rep, would folks be interested in modernizing, updating and extending it?
00:11 moritz obra: I read that mail, and I replied, but it didn't get through to the list
00:12 obra moritz: allison and I have been having an olff-list tchat
00:12 obra what was the summary of your mail?
00:12 moritz 1) sounds good
00:12 moritz 2) does the TPF already has a license for it?
00:12 obra Artistic 2
00:12 moritz 3) I'd suggest the pugs repo instead the "official" perl one, because it's open to more hackers
00:13 moritz just sent it again, with a different SMTP this time
00:13 obra What I talked allison into is initial commit to tpf repo then branching to the pugs repo
00:14 nothingmuch wiki!
00:14 moritz nothingmuch: no!
00:14 Tene wiki--
00:14 moritz nothingmuch: I can't use vim in a wiki
00:14 nothingmuch don't you wnat pictures of pretty girls in the next edition of the book?
00:15 moritz nothingmuch: and it has a much longer dev cycle
00:15 nothingmuch and a 404 link chapter?
00:15 Tene moritz: you can with proper browser plugins
00:15 Tene or with a fuse app for that wiki
00:15 moritz Tene: but that's an evil hack
00:15 nothingmuch well, there is a possibility for middle ground
00:15 moritz if you want something wiki-like, use a distributed SCM
00:15 nothingmuch e.g. ingy's doolitle
00:16 nothingmuch which is essentially a wiki frontend to a bunch of perldocs in svn
00:16 nothingmuch but i was kidding
00:16 Tene moritz: nah, the pugs crowd seems to love SVN
00:16 moritz Tene: I wouldn't mind switching to git ;)
00:16 * Tene likes git.
00:16 nothingmuch darcs
00:16 nothingmuch yay!
00:16 * nothingmuch stops trolling
00:17 moritz I haven't really tried it, but I heard great things about git... and seen examples, and all
00:17 moritz today I was in git talk at debconf7
00:17 nothingmuch http://nothingmuch.woobling.org/darcs_osdc/slides/start.html
00:17 lambdabot Title: Darcs
00:17 nothingmuch wait for the images to load, so s5 kicks in
00:20 moritz obra: obviously I'll read parrot+perl6 internals prior to chaniging it ;)
00:21 moritz nothingmuch: what's an advantage of darcs compared to git?
00:22 nothingmuch IMHO darcs is the most user friendly VCS i've seen
00:22 nothingmuch and also very powerful
00:22 nothingmuch the non linearity of changes is what sold me
00:22 obra yeah, when trying to write a book, that's not so hot ;)
00:22 nothingmuch tangetntial
00:23 nothingmuch if you change chapter a and then chapter b, and then change your mind about changing chapter a, darcs makes that trivial
00:23 moritz "n Darcs every working directory is a full repository" - that's an advantage over git
00:23 obra svk has that mode too, moritz. and works with svn ;)
00:23 obra anyway
00:23 obra I don't see pugs switching version control systems this week
00:23 nothingmuch you're just pimping your buddies code ;-)
00:23 obra hence it makes sense to check it into svn and go from there
00:23 obra nothingmuch: mine, actually
00:24 nothingmuch for the record i'm not trying to get pugs on svn, just saying why i like darcs since someone mentioned git =)
00:24 nothingmuch and don't worry, i'm a happy svk user, too
00:24 moritz obra: I know, but git performs a bit better than svk for large repos ;)
00:24 nothingmuch that's where darcs loses
00:24 moritz I don't try either ;)
00:24 obra let's not have this discussion here
00:24 obra it's not perl6 ;)
00:25 moritz obra: that never stopped us from any discussion here ;)
00:26 obra :P
00:27 moritz nothingmuch: nice slides ;)
00:28 * nothingmuch wonders why his comp is so slow
00:28 nothingmuch everthing is happenning at a 1 sec delay
00:28 thoughtpolice nothingmuch: I agree on the note that darcs is really 'easy'
00:29 thoughtpolice pretty much all of the concepts in darcs are about as straightforward as I've seen, and a lot of them are really useful (cherry picking is one of the best)
00:31 thoughtpolice git is pretty much as good as you'll get for a fast system though; mercurial is pretty quick as well. i haven't tried it, but in pushes and pulls from repo's with very large amounts of patches, some actions can take inordinate amounts of time.
00:31 thoughtpolice which is kind of a downer for darcs
00:32 moritz which is an advantage for us
00:32 moritz because it means hacking GHC is less fun for audreyt as it could be
00:32 moritz => more time for pugs ;)
00:33 thoughtpolice haha
00:33 thoughtpolice well the ghc guys apparently don't like some of the issues. :/ but the new ideas taking place in darcs for the SoC should help out a *lot*
00:34 thoughtpolice i assume that'll be something like darcs 1.1
00:34 thoughtpolice since we have 1.0.9 now. :)
00:34 nothingmuch that's a little problematic
00:34 nothingmuch because it's been in the queue too long
00:34 nothingmuch personally i've never seen the issues with my own two eyes
00:34 nothingmuch but occasionally people bring them up
00:35 amadeus changed the nick to laye
00:35 * nothingmuch is very happy with darcs for all of his non work, non catalyst modules
00:35 thoughtpolice i'm pretty happy with it too
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00:36 thoughtpolice but then again the ghc guys are probably playing in a pretty different ballpark than you or I are. i can imagine problems like that cropping up in a 100kloc app with thousands upon thousands [upon thousands] of patches
00:36 thoughtpolice for most people though a lot of the actual pointed out issues with darcs aren't really that much of a problem. a lot of them seem to manifest more in much larger projects.
00:36 nothingmuch yep
00:37 * moritz has an active project that's on revision 7, and at least half a year old
00:37 thoughtpolice nice. :)
00:37 nothingmuch http://nothingmuch.woobling.org/darcs_dep.pdf
00:37 nothingmuch that's probably as big as i've gotten
00:37 moritz since I'm the only developer, there's no need for early commits ;)
00:38 thoughtpolice i'll openly admit that probably none of my projects have had that many. :)
00:39 thoughtpolice most of my code is mainly just little stuff I write in my spare time; repo's that use maybe ~20 or so patches.
00:39 thoughtpolice i love darcs though. mercurial is looking really nice however, so I'm going to have to try it out more extensively sometime in the future.
00:40 thoughtpolice and I've normally found the best way to learn something is to use it; I'll have to find some kind of project to hack on. :)
00:41 moritz thoughtpolice: pugs ;)
00:41 moritz thoughtpolice: did you apply for a microgrant?
00:42 thoughtpolice no. right now I'm trying to clear up some other loose ended projects I have
00:42 thoughtpolice namely ones that have taken inordinate amount of time which I'm not very happy about. a few I can lay off since they're a bit more personal, but there're a couple that've been really nagging on my brain recently that I need to take care of
00:43 thoughtpolice but the recommendation for a microgrant has been on my mind over the past few days. :)
00:44 thoughtpolice mainly there're about 2 projects I need to work more on. once those are done a microgrant is high up there as something to shoot for. :)
00:44 thoughtpolice the funny thing is both of these things are websites. what're they both waiting on? designs. *sigh*
00:45 moritz thoughtpolice: for designs I just go to oswd.org most of the time ;)
00:45 moritz thoughtpolice: take a good looking design, and modify it to my needs
00:45 thoughtpolice although I think I found a nice web framework that I could use
00:45 thoughtpolice web.py
00:45 thoughtpolice moritz: thanks. :)
00:46 thoughtpolice moritz: one of those is probably good for my blog. the other one is a more domain-specific site, so I have a designer working on it specifically right now (at least, I think...)
00:47 moritz ok
00:47 moritz and I wrote my own little offline CMS in perl ;)
00:47 thoughtpolice ah, fun stuff. :)
00:48 moritz it basically handles inclues, variable substitutions and a special menu system for nested menus
00:48 moritz and it can syntax hilight through Text::VimColor
00:48 moritz which means it can even hilight perl 6 code decently! ;-)
00:48 thoughtpolice awesome
00:49 thoughtpolice :)
00:49 moritz that wasn't really hard to implement, but a killer feature for http://perl-6.de/
00:49 lambdabot Title: Perl 6 - Schmerzloses Programmieren
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00:58 nothingmuch night folks
00:58 thoughtpolice later
00:58 nothingmuch obra: so there ;-)
00:58 nothingmuch and happy birthday, btw
00:59 obra thanks :)
01:17 moritz happy birthday!
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01:44 svnbot6 r16683 | obra++ |  * placeholder for perl6 essentials
01:44 obra moritz: thanks
01:44 obra as a birthday present to/from me, I've checked the book in to pugs svn
01:47 svnbot6 r16684 | obra++ | * Perl 6 [and Parrot] Essentials source opensourced by O'Reilly Media
01:47 svnbot6 r16684 | obra++ |   allison++ # Got ORM to donate the code to TPF and got TPF to Artistic License it
01:47 svnbot6 r16684 | obra++ |   - Cloned from the TPF http://svn.perl.org/perl6/doc repository
01:47 lambdabot Title: Revision 14424: /doc
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03:53 gaal happy birthday, obra # and yay for just checking it in, and yay for having the book!
03:54 gaal also, yay for nothingmuch for producing the quintessential nothingmuch quote to date
03:54 gaal 03:22 < nothingmuch> IMHO darcs is the most user friendly VCS i've seen
03:54 gaal 03:22 < nothingmuch> IMHO darcs is the most user friendly VCS i've seen
03:54 gaal < nothingmuch> IMHO darcs is the most user friendly VCS i've seen
03:55 gaal < nothingmuch> the non linearity of changes is what sold me
03:55 gaal Ooops, sorry for repetition
03:57 nothingmuch making fun of me is not nice
03:57 nothingmuch my english eh not so good
03:58 offby1 nothingmuch: your English is better than my 1) Spanish 2) French 3) Mandarin 4) German ...
03:59 nothingmuch that doesn't matter, all that matters is that gaal is a mean poo poo head
04:00 nothingmuch sleepy time
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04:00 gaal it was more about the "oh look how simple my commutation with inverse property is!"
04:01 gaal sleep tight, no'.
04:02 * Aankhen`` mooses in a friendly manner towards gaal.
04:02 gaal hey!
04:02 Aankhen`` What's new?
04:04 offby1 moosing in public.  Kids these days
04:04 Aankhen`` Go back to yer cave, grandpa.
04:04 gaal I'm yearning for some magic audreyt touch to animate a patch that can speed up Pugs several times
04:04 * offby1 mumbles incoherently about insurance
04:04 Aankhen`` gaal: Oooh.
04:04 * Aankhen`` laughs at offby1.
04:05 gaal also, I'm up early, which means I had better take advantage to the pleasant temperatures out and go rowing
04:05 gaal lambdabot! don't go!
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04:06 gaal wp
04:06 gaal *wb
04:06 gaal ok, i'd better vamoose, myself :)
04:07 Aankhen`` Aww.
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05:27 weirdo heya
05:27 weirdo are strings, arrays et al subclasses of a common type
05:27 weirdo ?
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05:48 svnbot6 r16685 | Darren_Duncan++ | ext/Muldis-DB/ : further license clarification
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05:58 dduncan weirdo, yes
05:58 gaal weirdo: look for "buffer" in L<S09/"Compact arrays">
05:58 gaal you can coerce a string into a buf
05:58 gaal shower &
05:58 dduncan all types are subtypes of Object
05:58 weirdo thanks
05:59 weirdo but can't i map{} over a string?
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05:59 dduncan more specifically, they all subtype Any
06:00 dduncan in what way do you want to map over a string?
06:00 dduncan what is a string element in this case?
06:00 weirdo besides, can i print the type graph in pugs?
06:00 dduncan I don't know about the latter
06:00 gaal weirdo: $obj.perl or $obj.yaml give you textual representations
06:00 dduncan if not now, you probably should be able to soon
06:01 weirdo i was thinking in terms of, all array types (buf, @ary, string etc) working with iterators
06:01 gaal oh, you meant the type graph, not an instance of the type Graph :)
06:01 dduncan a Str is abstract as per what its components are
06:02 dduncan so to do a map{}, you need to specify what level of abstraction you want to work in terms of
06:02 dduncan eg, graphs vs codes vs bytes
06:02 dduncan or vs words et al
06:02 dduncan such as <...> does
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06:04 weirdo i'm thinking of a string as of an array with each element having the same predefined type
06:04 dduncan which is what?
06:04 weirdo depends whether it's multibyte
06:05 dduncan so you're thinking of a string as being a compact array of something or other?
06:05 weirdo yes
06:05 dduncan what is the context
06:06 dduncan in Perl, a Str is specifically characters, which is an abstract notion
06:06 dduncan whereas a Blob is a string of bits
06:06 dduncan and a buffer is a mutable version of either
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06:07 dduncan in Perl 6, you may simply want to use an array of int or something
06:07 dduncan lower-case int means compact storage
06:07 dduncan as it is machine native int
06:07 dduncan or substitute int for some other lower-case named types
06:08 dduncan or the best answer for you depends on what you actually want to achieve
06:08 dduncan Perl 6 isn't exactly the same as any other language, though has close analogies
06:08 dduncan eg, the C way of doing things may not be directly applicable here
06:08 weirdo i was thinking in terms of common lisp's type system
06:08 dduncan some fundamental concepts differ
06:09 dduncan a Str in perl is fundamentally a scalar, not a collection
06:09 weirdo there are sequences, vectors (compact or not), lists and arrays (multidimensional or vectors)
06:09 dduncan map{} only makes sense over collections
06:10 weirdo thanks. that makes sense
06:10 dduncan you can derive a collection from a scalar, but a scalar is not a collection itself
06:10 dduncan eg, using split() on a Str can give you a collection
06:10 dduncan or various other functions
06:10 dduncan depending on how you want it broken up
06:10 weirdo are there any specifications on macros so far?
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06:11 dduncan see Synopsis 6 I think
06:11 dduncan do you know a url for that?
06:11 dduncan if not, see http://dev.perl.org/perl6/doc/synopsis.html
06:11 lambdabot Title: Synopses - perl6
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06:11 weirdo thanks :)
06:11 Aankhen`` (spec.pugscode.org)++
06:12 dduncan in Synopsis 6, scroll about 80% of the way down for most Macros stuff
06:13 dduncan note: it would probably be useful for the htmlized Synopsis docs to have generated tables of contents like search.cpan.org does for most pod
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06:13 dduncan so we don't have to scroll to each section
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06:14 wolverian dduncan, spec.pugscode.org does that.
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06:17 weirdo wow. 'leave' works like RETURN-FROM
06:17 weirdo it can return a value, too
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06:19 weirdo there's something unclear about macros. 'is parsed' implies that macro params are a string. can i get macro params as a syntax tree?
06:20 gaal look for 'quoting' and 'quasiquoting
06:20 gaal '
06:24 weirdo can i use quasiquoting for getting an AST or only for returning it?
06:25 weirdo i was thinking of getting a block passed as a param to macro and seeing its expressions as an array
06:26 gaal should be possible
06:30 weirdo please, show me. most i could do is pugs> macro foo ($foo is CODE) { warn $foo; undef }
06:30 weirdo pugs> foo { 1 + 2; 3 + 4 }
06:30 weirdo *** <SubBlock(<anon>)> at <interactive> line 1, column 28-37
06:30 weirdo undef
06:30 weirdo oops. sorry for the flooding
06:31 weirdo i can't delve into the sub and mess with its expressions
06:32 bsb weirdo: I don't think pugs has all the quasiquoting and macro stuff implemented yet
06:34 gaal yay, my telepathic summoning of someone who actually knows this stuff worked! bsb, how are you? :-)
06:44 dduncan wolverian, thanks for that link ... I was using the other one since I bookmarked it a couple years ago ... replaced it with bookmark for new
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06:57 bsb hey gaal, I'm good, but you'd know that with your telepathy
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07:07 Aankhen`` dduncan: Pfft, who uses bookmarks any more? ;-)
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07:13 Aankhen`` Hmm.  Anyone who has a high-level understanding of Pugs feel able to tell me how Pugs parses Perl 6? :-)
07:13 Aankhen`` changed the nick to Aankhen
07:13 Aankhen changed the nick to Aankhen``
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07:14 dduncan Aankhen, better than anything else
07:14 dduncan so far
07:14 Aankhen`` Well, yes, I knew that already. :-P
07:14 Aankhen`` I was wondering how.
07:14 dduncan 'how' looked like 'how well'
07:15 Aankhen`` (I'm trying to read the source, but I barely understand Haskell, so…)
07:15 Aankhen`` Ah, no sweat.
07:15 dduncan well, good luck with that
07:15 Aankhen`` Thanks, I need it.
07:15 dduncan and I'm off
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07:17 jql magic
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07:22 Aankhen`` Heh.
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07:25 Aankhen`` It suddenly struck me as amusing that a language like Perl 6 should be implemented on top of a purely functional language like Haskell.
07:26 Tene Aankhen``: howso, exactly?
07:26 jql well, Parsec is a damn impressive library
07:27 Aankhen`` Well, Perl always seems to embrace side-effects, whereas Haskell eschews them entirely (leaving aside monads, needless to say).
07:27 Aankhen`` Just funny to see the Perl approach built on top of the Haskell approach, I guess.
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07:29 Aankhen`` Now what would be really interesting would be to see a Haskell interpreter in Perl 6, running in Pugs, for circularity fun. <G>
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10:03 gaal Aankhen``: not new, but maybe this can help: http://perlcabal.org/~gaal/peek/
10:03 lambdabot Title:
10:03 gaal append start.html to that url
10:15 moritz obra: did you check in the parts of the book into the parrot repository?
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11:59 svnbot6 r16686 | fglock++ | [kp6] added /v6/docs/kp6-overview.jpg
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12:25 spinclad fglock: RFReview text looks good here
12:25 fglock spinclad: cool - I just sent it to the list
12:25 lambdabot fglock: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
12:33 moritz fglock: you should export images from vector graphics as .png, not .jpg - the text will be more readable, and the edges don't fuzzy out
12:33 moritz fglock: although the current images are very readable ;)
12:33 fglock moritz: I'll do that next time
12:33 moritz good
12:45 obra moritz: allison is doing the parrot parts of the book
12:45 moritz obra: ok
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14:33 fglock oops - my macbook screen is flickering and there seems to be no solution for that http://www.appledefects.com/?p=179
14:33 lambdabot Title: AppleDefects.com » Inexplicable MacBook Screen Flicker - Customer Complaints & I ...
14:34 offby1 is that worse than the $5,000 Leica camera that distorted colors so badly that people just desaturated their images to black and white?
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14:35 moritz no, I guess your macbook was cheaper ;)
14:36 fglock people are saying that apple can't fix that :(
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15:08 rindolf Happy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragon_Boat_Festival all.
15:08 lambdabot Title: Duanwu Festival - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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15:21 Aankhen`` gaal: Gracias, I'll give it a peek. ;-)
15:22 * thoughtpolice yawns
15:22 Aankhen`` Morning.
15:22 thoughtpolice mornin'
15:22 Aankhen`` Shouldn't you be asleep?
15:22 thoughtpolice it's like 10:30am here
15:22 Aankhen`` Hmm, your clock seems to be off
15:22 Aankhen`` .
15:22 Aankhen`` [thoughtpolice TIME reply]: Thu Jul 19 04:39:54 2007
15:22 thoughtpolice most likely is
15:23 Aankhen`` Bleh, it's 8:21 AM here.  I ought to have been in bed for another six hours.
15:23 Aankhen`` (Woke up at 7:15.)
15:23 thoughtpolice hm yeah my clock's are off. i should probably really get around to syncing with an ntp server one of these days
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15:28 thoughtpolice better. :)
15:32 Aankhen`` Yey, I feel better now.
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15:35 leo_ audreyt: ping
15:38 leo_ audreyt: please contact me ASAP re flight
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15:47 gaal Aankhen``: moose if you have any questions
15:49 rindolf Thanks to Allison for opening the parts of "Perl 6 Essentials"
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16:06 thoughtpolice also, the last part of the topic could be "(reverse . show . last) $ zipWith (*) [1..6] [-1..]"
16:06 thoughtpolice :)
16:06 thoughtpolice although admittingly it could go much farther but hey, you only have one line
16:09 thoughtpolice of course in most imperative languages you could just write that as "42" I guess since you can't play with infinte lists, but, uh... yeah.
16:11 TimToady 42 is an infinite list, it's just most of the digits are off to the left and invisible...
16:12 thoughtpolice indubitably
16:14 offby1 Aankhen``: whiner.  My cat got me up at 5:00 am :-|
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17:54 rindolf TimToady: heh.
17:54 TimToady heh?
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17:58 rindolf <TimToady> 42 is an infinite list, it's just most of the digits are off to the left and invisible...
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18:26 Aankhen`` offby1: I'm glad.  GLAD, I SAY.
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20:45 ibrown interesting. so from what i read, pug is just a new interpreter to parse the v6 syntax?  and that interpreter can interpret v5 syntax as well or am i incorrect?
20:46 isaacd__ joined #perl6
20:47 fglock ibrown: that's correct, from the user point of view
20:48 TimToady_ however, the p5 code is just handed off to an embedded p5 interpreter
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20:56 * fglock looks for dewarnocking tips
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21:00 ibrown this is gaining more and more interest.  So what's kinda the crux of the workload like right now?  
21:04 fglock ibrown: currently, pugs object system is under refactoring; and other Perl 6 implementations are also under way
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21:08 ibrown fglock: well i def. subscribed to the list, and got parrot/pugs working.  i'm all about trying to start doing non-production dev on p6 heh.
21:09 [particle] fglock: all 01-sanity tests are now passing for parrot/perl6
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21:19 fglock_ [particle]: nice :)
21:22 dduncan yay-eth
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21:29 offby1 yay-us
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22:33 svnbot6 r16687 | lwall++ | [ch04] begin to extirpate references to references
22:33 Limbic_Region TimToady - when is your Iceland conference?
22:35 moritz TimToady_: ch04 has a lot of parentheses around arrays... should I remove some of them?
22:35 TimToady_ Limbic_Region: July 16-20
22:35 TimToady_ I've removed some of them already
22:36 moritz TimToady_: ok
22:36 TimToady_ but if you want to whack on it some more, feel free
22:36 TimToady_ I'm about done with ch04 for the day
22:37 TimToady_ not sure what to do about the earlier history-in-progress chapters
22:37 moritz I won't do more today either
22:37 moritz perhaps tomorrow
22:37 TimToady_ when it says "so-and-so is currently doing this" and they aren't anymore, it seems odd...
22:38 TimToady_ so I think the history parts have to be put into past tense
22:39 TimToady_ but I don't think I'm the right person to do that
22:39 moritz and ?? :: is ?? !! now, right?
22:39 TimToady_ yes
22:41 TimToady_ changed the nick to TimToady
22:41 svnbot6 r16688 | moritz++ | [ch04] updated ternary operator
22:44 avarab changed the nick to avar
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22:47 svnbot6 r16689 | moritz++ | [ch04] updated the zip operator
22:48 moritz ok, that was a lie later ;)
22:48 TimToady I just updated svn props, so you may get a conflict
22:48 svnbot6 r16690 | lwall++ | Add svn props to tutorial
22:49 TimToady suggest you svn up
22:49 moritz no conflict
22:49 moritz ;)
22:49 TimToady before any additional lying :)
22:52 svnbot6 r16691 | moritz++ | [ch04] print on $_ now requires a leading dot
22:52 moritz and named parameters are :$foo, not +$foo any more, right?
22:53 thoughtpolice yes, named parameters are : rather than +
22:53 thoughtpolice i see we have o'reilly's book in the repo now? :) i use it for a reference when I need to when I write stuff on diveintoperl6.
22:53 moritz thoughtpolice: yes, read p6l ;-)
22:54 moritz thoughtpolice: http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.perl6.language/2007/06/msg27767.html
22:54 lambdabot Title: Perl 6 & Parrot Essentials as project documentation - nntp.perl.org, http://tinyurl.com/ynvlty
22:54 thoughtpolice nice stuff. :)
22:54 thoughtpolice the book is a good reference.
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22:59 pasteling "MaxDeMon" at 210.2.158.63 pasted "Haii" (1 line, 21B) at http://sial.org/pbot/25668
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23:01 svnbot6 r16692 | moritz++ | [ch05] ':' instead of '?' for named parameters, (PARAMS --> RETURN_TYPE)
23:03 * moritz doesn't like the examples in ch06 - "Arthur" is soemthing that I'd use as an object, not as a class
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23:09 moritz is there a shorter word than 'exclamation mark' for '!'?
23:10 riffraff "bang"
23:10 moritz is that suitable for a book? *g*
23:10 TimToady nothing else sufficiently formal
23:10 riffraff I think I read some where the explained #! as shebang so, maybe yes :)
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23:12 bsb there's a band called "!!!", pronounced "chk chk chk"...
23:12 bsb "shchk line", hmm, maybe not
23:13 japhb [particle]: congratulations!  # parrot/perl6 passing all of 01-sanity
23:13 moritz I'll stick to "exclamation mark" for now ;)
23:13 svnbot6 r16693 | moritz++ | [ch06] private methods and attributes now use '!' instead of ':'
23:13 japhb And thanks to ORM for releasing the book.  Good on them ....
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23:17 thoughtpolice i wonder what this says about the rails guys: http://dev.rubyonrails.org/ticket/8681
23:17 lambdabot Title: #8681 (Removed &#34;cocksucker&#34; from unit tests) - Rails Trac - Trac
23:17 Aankhen`` O_O
23:17 riffraff lol
23:17 thoughtpolice well, lambdabot summed it up pretty nicely I guess
23:17 japhb Don't like Deadwood?
23:17 thoughtpolice deadwood's a good show.
23:18 moritz ch07 will need some good portions of rewriting I guess
23:18 japhb Agreed! One of my favorites.  I meant, that's what it says about the Ruby guy who made the change.  :-)
23:18 thoughtpolice :)
23:18 japhb You'd be hard pressed to enjoy Deadwood and have sensitive ears.  :-)
23:19 thoughtpolice i dunno. either that or for some -- crazy -- reason 'cocksucker' was not a critical part of the unit tests.
23:21 japhb That show is the only time I've ever heard "San Francisco cocksucker!" and *knew* it had absolutely nothing to do with sex.
23:22 moritz time for some serious sleeping for me ;-)
23:22 japhb Have a good rest
23:22 moritz have fun discussing cocksuckers in the mean time ;)
23:22 japhb heh
23:22 moritz japhb: thanks ;)
23:22 thoughtpolice moritz: peace out. :)
23:22 * japhb chuckles
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23:36 ibrown i'm pretty mad impressed.  but i guess, there's one question the webpages haven't really answered as of yet.  what are contribs being asked to do to contrib?
23:44 TimToady just find a spot to grab onto the breadcrumb and push it toward the nest.
23:44 Aankhen`` gaal: That presentation was great. ^_^
23:44 ibrown I guess the reason I ask is, i use perl every day for system administration tasks.  i'll gladly switch to perl6 and start making comments via: irc: mailing lists instead of using perl5.8 heh.  or if that's unadvisable, i guess i just don't really get a good concept of where you're at from the documentation on the websites.
23:45 ibrown been reading up on it for about 3-5hrs now
23:45 ibrown i use perl5.8 on both win32 and unix platforms
23:45 ibrown i <3 perl on win32 systems for tasks.
23:46 TimToady a lot of the documentation is about where we want to be at, and we don't go out of our way to mark which things are implemented yet, alas.
23:46 TimToady so it's mostly still trial-and-terror at this point
23:46 [particle] we do mark things that have been tested
23:47 TimToady well, yes, that helps
23:47 [particle] spec.pugscode.org
23:47 TimToady but only if they've been smartlinked
23:47 [particle] i expect that much more of the test suite will be smartlinked after conference season
23:48 TimToady hope so
23:48 diakopter_afk changed the nick to diakopter
23:48 TimToady it's definitely a place people can help out
23:48 [particle] indeed
23:49 ibrown smartlinked?
23:49 ibrown you mean within the pod? <a> kinda
23:50 japhb ibrown: Tests can mark what part of the spec they apply to
23:51 japhb So you can look at the spec and know what it tested
23:51 japhb er s/it/is/
23:51 [particle] http://rakudo.org/perl6/index.cgi?smart_linking
23:51 lambdabot Title: Smart Linking / Perl 6
23:51 ibrown 2secs reading
23:56 japhb ibrown: see for example http://feather.perl6.nl/syn/S03.html#Autoincrement_precedence
23:56 lambdabot Title: S03
23:56 japhb (picked at random, but you'll see what we mean)
23:58 japhb ibrown: Cool and new since the last time I looked at it is that the tests actually have pass/fail info for pugs included!
23:58 japhb (check or x mark)

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