Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2007-07-02

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

| Channels | #perl6 index | Today | | Search | Google Search | Plain-Text | summary

All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:06 jisom joined #perl6
00:08 cventers joined #perl6
00:11 diakopter_afk changed the nick to diakopter
00:14 weinig joined #perl6
00:28 jedai joined #perl6
00:37 justatheory joined #perl6
00:39 tcliou changed the nick to tcliou_Away
00:54 nipotaway changed the nick to nipotan
01:00 hkb_zz changed the nick to hkb_aw
01:19 araujo joined #perl6
01:22 justatheory joined #perl6
01:23 dalekbot joined #perl6
01:23 buu Now it might actually work!
01:23 * offby1 half-opens one eye
01:23 offby1 eh?
01:24 offby1 ha!  Thought I was in ##cinema
01:24 offby1 not used to seeing buu anywhere else
01:24 buu I am everywhere.
01:24 * offby1 shivers
01:24 buu I know.
01:24 buu Ok.
01:24 alindeman left #perl6
01:25 buu_ joined #perl6
01:25 beppu joined #perl6
01:25 offby1 buu: actually, you don't even appear on my "IRC stalkers" list
01:26 buu Yeah
01:26 buu We share little in common.
01:26 buu_ dahlekbottest
01:26 buu_ dahlekbottest
01:26 buu_ dahlekbottest
01:26 buu_ dahlekbottest
01:26 daxim nice
01:26 buu Yeah =[
01:26 buu It might actually work this time.
01:27 daxim that should give some respite from the tards
01:27 * offby1 wonders what other kinds of flooding there might be
01:27 buu I keep failing to have the bot running when they visit =[
01:27 buu I think they're running out of drones though.
01:27 daxim does it trigger on crapflooding the same lines or just flooding in general?
01:27 buu Same line.
01:27 buu Multiple hosts.
01:28 [particle] buu: they hit #parrot on irc.perl recently
01:28 diakopter changed the nick to diakopter_afk
01:28 [particle] i assume they hit #perl there, too, but i don't frequent that channel.
01:29 buu [particle]: magnet is adding network level protections.
01:29 buu I hope.
01:29 [particle] fab.
01:29 diakopter_afk changed the nick to diakopter
01:29 [particle] back to life, back to reality &
01:33 nipotan changed the nick to nipotaway
01:34 TimToady now the logger could retroactively delete anything that was deemed to be crapflooding
01:35 TimToady or replace with a stub indicating the deletion, to keep the logs from being entirely mysterious
01:37 * diakopter nags moritz for a shell acct and mysql user on his box to help cleanup till then
01:43 bonesss joined #perl6
01:47 TimToady the danger of the crapflooding is not that it scares off the core people, but that it scares off the marginal people who could someday be core people if we keep this a "comfy" place.
01:56 r0bby__ joined #perl6
01:57 blblack joined #perl6
02:01 r0bby__ joined #perl6
02:03 r0bby joined #perl6
02:10 dolmans joined #perl6
02:32 dduncan joined #perl6
02:33 cmarcelo joined #perl6
02:34 diakopter changed the nick to diakopter_afk
02:34 diakopter_afk changed the nick to diakopter
02:38 vel joined #perl6
02:41 r0bby joined #perl6
03:01 [particle1 joined #perl6
03:19 beppu is ext/lib/Web.pm going to be like Perl 6's version of _why's Camping framework?  http://code.whytheluckystiff.net/camping/
03:21 Tene beppu: look in ext/HTTP/docs/
03:22 nipotaway changed the nick to nipotan
03:22 beppu k
03:29 Alias_ joined #perl6
03:40 nipotan joined #perl6
03:41 nipotan joined #perl6
03:41 justatheory joined #perl6
03:48 amnesiac joined #perl6
04:02 weinig joined #perl6
04:13 sunnavy joined #perl6
04:17 stevan__ joined #perl6
04:27 weinig_ joined #perl6
04:38 weinig_ changed the nick to weinig|bbl
04:49 hkb_aw changed the nick to hkb_lab
04:56 r0bby joined #perl6
05:23 r0bby joined #perl6
05:27 justatheory joined #perl6
06:05 monomorph joined #perl6
06:05 pugs_svnbot r16789 | moritz++ | trunk:
06:05 pugs_svnbot : [irclog] added possibilty to mark lines as spam. more details soon to follow.
06:05 pugs_svnbot diff: http://perlcabal.org/svn/pugs/revision?rev=16789
06:06 diakopter moritz++
06:09 pasteling "evalbot_r16788" at 193.200.132.135 pasted "Pugs build failure" (6 lines, 278B) at http://sial.org/pbot/25937
06:10 mjk joined #perl6
06:12 jrockway joined #perl6
06:15 rfordinal joined #perl6
06:20 moritz diakopter: you have mail
06:21 moritz I'm back, but I lost my power supply, so I'll not have very much time :(
06:21 diakopter ok
06:21 * diakopter checks feather for mail first
06:21 moritz diakopter: it't the veradox.com mail
06:22 moritz I looked it up in commitbit
06:22 diakopter cool
06:23 moritz diakopter: please test it with a join/leave entry
06:23 diakopter okay
06:24 diakopter worked
06:25 moritz cool
06:25 moritz perl++
06:25 moritz I'm off, saving battery power :(
06:25 moritz bye
06:25 iblechbot joined #perl6
06:26 diakopter moritz++: bye
06:26 devogon joined #perl6
06:27 meppl good morning
06:29 rho joined #perl6
06:45 franck__ joined #perl6
06:51 rfordinal joined #perl6
07:16 wj2552 joined #perl6
07:19 wj2552 left #perl6
07:19 elmex joined #perl6
07:44 alexe joined #perl6
07:47 dduncan left #perl6
07:52 alexe joined #perl6
08:07 dalekbot joined #perl6
08:09 Claudia_Walther joined #perl6
08:10 Claudia_Walther changed the nick to lichtkind
08:10 lichtkind moritz: moin
08:15 jedai joined #perl6
08:19 gene9 joined #perl6
08:20 Aankhen`` moritz++
08:21 lichtkind indeed
08:26 ruoso joined #perl6
08:30 polettix joined #perl6
08:37 riffraff joined #perl6
08:41 rfordinal joined #perl6
08:43 Aankhen`` TimToady: You've said that Perl 6 will have Erlang-ish semantics in its underbelly. Could you elaborate on it, when next you're around? Merci beaucoup. :-)
08:43 Aankhen`` s:2nd/it/that/
08:53 moritz re
08:53 Aankhen`` How's it going, moritz?
08:54 moritz Aankhen``: I'm mostly fine, thanks ;)
08:54 Aankhen`` Glad to hear it.
08:54 Aankhen`` Weekend went off well, I take it?
08:54 moritz yes, indeed
08:54 Aankhen`` ^_^
08:54 Aankhen`` We've been having a spamalicious time.
08:55 moritz I saw it, and deleted some of them
08:55 Aankhen`` "ALL HAIL GOUDATR0N, NERD AND MASTER OF DORKS EVERYWHERE" or something like that.
08:55 moritz Aankhen``: if you want, you can get a spam-delete account as well
08:55 Aankhen`` How do I do that?
08:56 moritz Aankhen``: you let me know your email address ;)
08:56 Aankhen`` Heh.
08:56 moritz I don't know my commitbit password by heart, so I can't look it up
08:57 Aankhen`` No sweat.
08:57 Aankhen`` I've been reading about the actor model and process calculi. :-D
09:02 Aankhen`` …okay, I take it back.  Just don't hate me. :-(
09:03 * moritz doesn't hakte anybody for reading something
09:03 Aankhen`` Hehe.
09:03 moritz and actress sound more interesting than actor if you ask me ;)
09:03 lichtkind moritz: can i send you a halready version of part 2?
09:03 Aankhen`` LOL.
09:04 moritz lichtkind: of course you can ;)
09:05 lichtkind moritz: will you read it ?
09:05 moritz lichtkind: yes
09:05 lichtkind moritz: great im travveling right now what was your adress again?
09:06 Aankhen`` Mmm, actress models.
09:06 lichtkind thanks
09:08 lichtkind moritz: im really interested in your opinion but most interesting part are not yet written
09:08 thoughtpolice joined #perl6
09:11 chris2 joined #perl6
09:14 falco64 joined #perl6
09:14 The-Counter joined #perl6
09:14 uposfp joined #perl6
09:14 tom2006 joined #perl6
09:14 lunatic joined #perl6
09:14 Renega joined #perl6
09:19 moritz lichtkind: *reading*
09:20 lichtkind ahh
09:21 moritz logs cleared
09:21 moritz that's much more fun with the web interface ;)
09:22 thoughtpolice what's up with the spam bots recently
09:27 lichtkind moritz ok read you later
09:36 Aankhen`` Hah.
09:36 Aankhen`` dalekbot++
09:36 Aankhen`` buu++
09:36 Patterner drwhobot++
09:36 Aankhen`` Patterner+-
09:37 Aankhen`` No, wait.
09:37 Aankhen`` Patterner±
09:37 args dalekbot?
09:37 wolverian sigh, it's not working so well on magnet :/
09:37 args ooh. dalekbot. nice.
09:38 * Patterner sends the weeping angels after Aankhen
09:38 Aankhen`` wolverian: Maybe being +h instead of +o breaks it.
09:40 wolverian the automatic +v on join doesn't help either :)
09:40 Aankhen`` Well, if they were banned, it wouldn't matter, would it?
09:41 Aankhen`` Ah, it suddenly woke up.
09:41 Aankhen`` dalekbot away!
09:41 wolverian it would, since they can always just get more bots on other hosts
09:41 wolverian (if they are smart, anyway)
09:41 Aankhen`` True.
09:42 Patterner Smart and PHP..?
09:42 Maddingue spammers? smart?
09:42 Aankhen`` A valid question.
09:42 Aankhen`` Maddingue: They're not mutually exclusive.
09:43 Aankhen`` They're orthogonal.
09:43 moritz any odds what will happen to my windows box if disconnect the PS2 keyboard?
09:45 wolverian depends on how old it is
09:45 wolverian if it's from the 90s, don't
09:45 wolverian if it's newer, it probably won't mind
09:46 moritz it's from the 00s I think
09:47 wolverian then you're probably safe. :)
09:47 b_jonas joined #perl6
09:48 moritz I'll try it later, and tell you if it worked ;)
09:56 Schwern joined #perl6
10:03 isaacd joined #perl6
10:07 losh joined #perl6
10:11 Southen joined #perl6
10:14 gene9 joined #perl6
10:24 Schwern joined #perl6
10:25 boris__ joined #perl6
10:25 boris__ hi
10:33 moritz hi
10:33 moritz wolverian: it lived, thanks ;)
10:33 sunnavy_ joined #perl6
10:36 hkb_lab changed the nick to hkb_aw
10:47 boris___ joined #perl6
10:59 sunnavy_ changed the nick to sunnavy
11:00 mjk joined #perl6
11:05 polettix joined #perl6
11:31 nipotan changed the nick to nipotaway
11:52 franck___ joined #perl6
11:58 fglock joined #perl6
12:03 losh left #perl6
12:07 buetow joined #perl6
12:13 unobe joined #perl6
12:14 unobe changed the nick to unobe_away
12:29 buu Oh man, that's so hot.
12:37 hkb_aw changed the nick to hakobe
12:40 |Jedai| joined #perl6
12:42 ruoso joined #perl6
12:45 dalekbot joined #perl6
12:47 chris2 joined #perl6
12:49 unobe_away changed the nick to unobe
12:53 dalekbot joined #perl6
13:42 mj41 joined #perl6
13:50 jisom_ joined #perl6
13:51 dwave joined #perl6
13:59 pugs_svnbot r16790 | fglock++ | trunk:
13:59 pugs_svnbot : svk-commitifmgh.tmp
13:59 pugs_svnbot diff: http://perlcabal.org/svn/pugs/revision?rev=16790
13:59 fglock oops - wrong commit message
13:59 amnesiac joined #perl6
14:02 pugs_svnbot r16791 | fglock++ | trunk:
14:02 pugs_svnbot : [kp6] added temp/backtracking-recursive-subrule.pl
14:02 pugs_svnbot : - compatible with Perl5.8.8; builds an intermediate data structure that backtracks cleanly
14:02 pugs_svnbot diff: http://perlcabal.org/svn/pugs/revision?rev=16791
14:05 fglock afk
14:07 pasteling "evalbot_r16790" at 193.200.132.135 pasted "Pugs build failure" (6 lines, 278B) at http://sial.org/pbot/25946
14:16 lumi What's this svnbot? Looks different
14:16 [particle1 now includes a diff link
14:16 [particle1 changed the nick to [particle]
14:17 diakopter and it's called pugs_svnbot instead of svnbot6
14:18 diakopter cuz I'm gonna add p6-parrot_svnbot sometime as well
14:19 diakopter as well as p6-parrot_evalbot once I get that environment worked up (probably a pugs pass-through!)
14:19 [particle] diakopter++
14:20 diakopter but p6-parrot_svnbot remains vaporware of course :)
14:25 * [particle] opens a fresh box of tuits for diakopter
14:34 TJCRI joined #perl6
14:34 * diakopter tries to discern whether the fresh tuits are round
14:39 avar odd that C<my $res = if ($test) { $a } else { $b }> didn't come up in the "Generalizing ?? !!" thread
14:47 isaacd_ joined #perl6
14:49 ft joined #perl6
14:49 TimToady it would require parens around the "statement" these days
14:50 TimToady or a do prefix
14:50 TimToady course you can steal the parens from around the conditional, so it's not any longer...
14:51 ashleyb joined #perl6
14:51 TimToady ?eval my $res = (if 1 { 2 } else { 3 })
14:51 evalbot_r16787 changed the nick to evalbot_r16791
14:51 evalbot_r16791 Error: ␤Unexpected "$res"␤expecting "=", expression, ")", context, ":" or "("␤postfix op
14:51 TimToady but not implemented yet...
14:52 avar TimToady: How about making statements into expressions?:)
14:52 TimToady course, the backtracking in parsec is completely screwing up the error message
14:52 iblechbot joined #perl6
14:53 TimToady no, I think I'll at least require parens or brackets
14:53 TimToady otherwise it gets too dicey to figure out what went wrong
14:53 TimToady especially since modifiers like "if" don't care if they're where a term or operator is expected
14:54 TimToady the statement_control category is too useful to lose, I think
15:01 amnesiac hola gente!
15:03 diakopter hola amnesiac
15:04 TimToady Aankhen``: http://www.seas.upenn.edu/~lipeng/homepage/unify.html for more thoughts on that.  Perl 6 probably has most of the primitives to emulate Erlang itslef by now; lemme know if you see any missing
15:05 REPLeffect joined #perl6
15:06 cmarcelo_ joined #perl6
15:15 rlb3_work joined #perl6
15:26 diakopter TimToady: how well does that hybrid model mesh with pdd24,25?
15:27 diakopter I mean, for languages/perl6 implementation purposes?
15:27 diakopter (or does it)
15:34 r0bby_ joined #perl6
15:38 r0bby_ joined #perl6
15:42 TimToady haven't read those lately, but from my recollection the underbelly of parrot was also all async, so it should probably mesh okay eventually
15:42 [particle] for parrot 1.0, the async and sync implementations will be separate (to get it out the door)
15:43 TimToady s/was/was eventually intended to be/
15:43 [particle] eventually we expect to converge implementations
15:43 TimToady a sync impl can really gum up the works for an async usage, though
15:44 cmarcelo_ changed the nick to cmarcelo
15:44 moritz diakopter: re diff link, why don't you use /changeset/$revision as link target? I like that one more
15:44 [particle] perhaps perl6 will only use the parrot async model then
15:44 moritz colored diffs and all ;)
15:45 TimToady could be, though calling into another language could then also gum up the works...
15:45 [particle] yep, that's what i was thinking.
15:45 diakopter moritz: i agree, yeah... the SVN::Web one, while faster, is a few years behind trac for the intra-line distinctions.
15:46 TimToady basically, parrot needs a similar layered approach eventually
15:46 [particle] async design hasn't been fleshed out, i think we're waiting to see what the perl 6 design looks like. i hope you're not waiting on us :)
15:46 TimToady that paper pretty much is what I'm aiming at
15:46 [particle] great. that's what we figured, and we're aiming there too
15:46 TimToady though of course we won't call the transaction controller a "monad"
15:46 TimToady that would be scary
15:47 * diakopter is terrorized
15:47 moritz monads--
15:47 TimToady monads are wonderful in isolation.  it's when they start ganging up on you...
15:47 * [particle] smokes out the monad extremists and hunts them down
15:48 TimToady sort of a distributed denial of stupidity attack
15:48 * moritz only waits for the day where haskell programmers write 'use pure; use monads;' at the top of ever p6 program ;)
15:49 moritz s/ever/every/
15:49 TimToady well, we're not so far from being able to allow self-enforced single-assignment style, at least
15:49 TimToady though it won't be the default
15:51 daxim joined #perl6
15:52 REPLeffect joined #perl6
15:53 thoughtpolice hm. that reminds me, I still want to try and get an implementation of a monad in perl6 working sometime.
15:56 pugs_svnbot joined #perl6
15:57 diakopter plus, trac has decent syntax highlighting
16:00 diakopter moritz: I guess your logger can disregard the pugs_svnbot*diff: lines?
16:01 weinig joined #perl6
16:04 diakopter moritz: (since it urlizes the revision number already in the first line)
16:11 bonesss joined #perl6
16:25 r0bby joined #perl6
16:34 r0bby_ joined #perl6
16:38 iblechbot joined #perl6
16:47 Jmax er
16:48 fglock diakopter: pong
17:05 justatheory joined #perl6
17:06 justatheory joined #perl6
17:08 barney joined #perl6
17:12 Psyche^ joined #perl6
17:15 franck__ joined #perl6
17:28 Psyche^ changed the nick to Patterner
17:36 weinig joined #perl6
17:38 dduncan joined #perl6
17:49 b_jonas joined #perl6
17:52 hakobe changed the nick to hkb_zz
17:56 kinections left #perl6
18:10 cmarcelo_ joined #perl6
18:13 afed joined #perl6
18:13 godslayer joined #perl6
18:14 VASY26 joined #perl6
18:14 obra^` joined #perl6
18:16 nprice joined #perl6
18:18 afed thank god for wtc
18:18 TopGym joined #perl6
18:18 rad_ed joined #perl6
18:23 thoughtpolice much better.
18:23 cernd well that was fun
18:23 cernd is it me, or is this happening more and more often?
18:24 silug some script kiddie must be out of school for the summer and bored
18:24 [particle] school's out.
18:24 afed you forgot alindeman
18:24 afed he's the one controlling the bots
18:24 afed kline him too
18:24 alindeman Haha, right
18:24 alindeman :-)
18:25 afed XD
18:25 thoughtpolice it's most likely someone who becacme angry at life once they realised how awful php is.
18:26 REPLeffect he showed up here also: http://planet.perl.org/atom.xml
18:26 [particle] somebody here probably refused to do his perl homework
18:27 TimToady over the long haul, hatred primarily destroys the hater
18:28 thoughtpolice someone tell that to him
18:28 TimToady I just did
18:29 thoughtpolice :)
18:29 pugs_svnbot r16792 | fglock++ | trunk:
18:29 pugs_svnbot : [kp6] temp/backtracking-recursive-subrule.pl - all tests pass
18:29 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/16792
18:29 yum_ joined #perl6
18:31 fglock I'd like to request a code review of my p5 script; it is a new prototype for p6regex-in-perl5
18:31 fglock I mean, p6regex-in-perl5regex
18:33 fglock it generates a script while backtracking; the script is run to build the actual Match object
18:34 dalekbot joined #perl6
18:34 buu =]
18:46 Juerd Any dvorak typers here?
18:47 [particle] iyam
18:48 thoughtpolice i should probably switch to dvorak
18:49 [particle] joined #perl6
18:49 kolibrie Juerd: I'm here
18:49 [particle] 10+ years and still happy
18:50 kolibrie fglock: the file you just checked in?
18:50 kolibrie [particle]: I'm only two years or so, but loving it
18:51 Juerd I want to rebuild dvorak.nl
18:51 Juerd And am looking for testimonials. Would you please write some for me?
18:51 kolibrie that's the site I used!
18:51 kolibrie took me a week
18:51 Juerd It'd be great if it included when and how you learned it, and what the benefits are for you
18:51 Juerd A paragraph, perhaps two, suffices
18:52 kolibrie Juerd: I'll write something up in the next day or two
18:52 Juerd Perfect; thanks
18:52 Juerd [particle]: You too? :)
18:52 [particle] why not?
18:52 Juerd I wouldn't know :)
18:53 Juerd IRC or email are fine (juerd@juerd.nl)
18:53 Juerd I already have... 1.
18:53 rindolf joined #perl6
18:55 [particle] i guess you don't want to just have a 'testimonial' page :)
18:56 xerox joined #perl6
18:56 daxim I could write a testimonial of why I think dvorak just isn't worth it, which you could rebutt point by point  :p
18:57 [particle] i'm hoping for the waalboer keyboard soon, i hear it'll make perl 6 programming second nature.
18:59 TJCRI joined #perl6
18:59 lidden Why would I want dvorak? and where is ÅÄÖ :-)
18:59 daxim if it doesn't have the ¥ operator I don't wanna have it!!11  :(
19:01 Juerd [particle]: I just want a few paragraphs from a few real people
19:01 fglock_ joined #perl6
19:01 Juerd [particle]: From all over the world :)
19:01 [particle] daxim: just zip it :P
19:02 fglock_ kolibrie: sorry, my connection dropped - http://svn.pugscode.org/pugs/v6/v6-KindaPerl6/temp/backtracking-recursive-subrule.pl
19:02 kolibrie fglock_: looking
19:04 |Jedai| changed the nick to jedai
19:10 fglock_ kolibrie: the lines like "local $GLOBAL::_M = [ $GLOBAL::_M, 'to', pos() ];" create a operations tree, which is executed by the interpreter near line #74
19:14 lotek joined #perl6
19:15 fglock_ left #perl6
19:15 fglock_ joined #perl6
19:21 rlb3_work_ joined #perl6
19:22 kolibrie fglock_: I'm having lots of interruptions, but will try to get back to you soon
19:23 fglock_ kolibrie: np
19:31 REPLeffect joined #perl6
19:33 jkr joined #perl6
19:33 jkr Ahoy
19:33 kolibrie fglock_: looks okay to me.  pretty much the same as last week, except you added the Grammar4 and changed the variable names
19:34 flummox joined #perl6
19:34 jkr I bet you hear that very often, but how complete is pugs? :)
19:34 fglock_ kolibrie: last week's version had trouble with recursive regexes
19:35 qmole jkr: perfectly usable for playing with, why not try it out? :)
19:36 kolibrie fglock_: I see you have a bit for 5.10 - you plan to generate the code based on what version of Perl is being run?
19:36 jkr qmole: I'm already compiling, I just wondered if it makes sense to learn P6 now or if there'll be more significiant changes
19:36 fglock_ kolibrie: the previous Grammar4 didn't work; this one should be faster too
19:36 fglock_ re 5.10 - yes
19:38 * kolibrie likes when it works, and faster
19:40 qmole jkr: pugs and the spec are still evolving, but i'm not expecting it to look *much* different when it's done
19:40 qmole and pugs adds a load of crazy extras too
19:41 qmole like loading haskell and java modules
19:41 qmole heh
19:41 jkr Eeek
19:41 jkr :D
19:41 qmole but it's fun
19:42 jkr I don't know Haskell and I don't want to know Java :)
19:42 qmole ah, perl5 then?
19:43 jkr Yay :)
19:43 jkr But actually I already have a Perl 5 interpreter :)
19:44 jkr I just want to learn P6
19:44 qmole cool. you should find it easy to pick up
19:44 qmole most things do what you expect
19:45 jkr Hmm, I read some of those P5->P6 papers and I found a lot of things that just look completely weird to me
19:46 qmole my favourite part of trying pugs after p5 was threading
19:46 qmole it was like, "aaahhhhhhhh"
19:46 jkr Is threading already implemented in pugs?
19:47 jkr And why have all the operators been changed? :(
19:47 qmole hm, looked like it. certainly did everything i wanted t=it to
19:47 qmole the new operators are cool
19:47 jkr How is $cond ?? $foo !! $bar any better than $cond ? $foo : $bar?
19:48 jkr And ~ -> ~~, . -> ~, ...
19:48 jkr It just makes it harder to switch from P5 to P6, but not the language clearer
19:48 qmole that's worth it for . instead of ->
19:48 jkr Ah
19:48 jkr Now I got it :)
19:49 jkr But what about the rest?
19:49 qmole as for ?:, i cant remember, i think that meant something else
19:50 jkr $x = $cond ?? $true !! $false;  $x = $cond ? $true : $false;
19:50 flummox left #perl6
19:50 jkr 'http://www.perl.com/pub/a/2007/05/10/everyday-perl-6.html?page=2'
19:51 jkr I think I'll miss the old operators for a long long time :(
19:52 qmole it's because ? and : are used for other things i think
19:52 qmole they've all been changed for a reason
19:52 jkr Hehe, I hoped so :)
19:52 thoughtpolice jkr: read the apocalypses for rationale
19:52 qmole have faith :)
19:52 thoughtpolice they're your best bet as to figure what's changed and why (in detail)
19:53 thoughtpolice or you could just ask TimToady I suppose
19:53 jkr But I believe there could be better symbols for operators be chosen
19:53 * qmole wonders how you write ~~ in perl6 now
19:53 jkr See, changing -> to ., then changing . to ~ because of the new ., and then changing ~ to ~~ because of the old ~ ...
19:53 qmole not that it was particularly good practise to do so in p5
19:54 [particle] qmole: ~~ is spelled ~~
19:55 jkr Why not change . to _ and leave the rest as it is?
19:55 [particle] jkr: the operators are now more easily understood by knowing the rules of forming them, instead of memorizing which does what.
19:56 jkr There are rules for operator symbols?
19:56 [particle] let me find you the correct synopsis describing it...
19:56 jkr That'd be great :)
19:56 [particle] it's either S02 or S03. checking now
19:57 jkr Hmm, seems like pugs will compile forever
19:57 [particle] S03?
19:57 jkr 11 of 109
19:57 [particle] feh. wish the bots understood that.
19:58 qmole i meant prefix ~~ as in ~~localtime
19:59 * qmole assumes pugs doesnt let you do that
20:00 jkr Is there a good book or tutorial for P6?
20:01 [particle] jkr: sorry, my internet was broken. look here http://perlcabal.org/syn/ at S03
20:01 dalekbot joined #perl6
20:02 qmole jkr: there's no one place, but the specs/examples/tests in the pugs tree should get you started
20:03 jkr Uhm
20:03 jkr .«» <-- What's that?
20:03 [particle] qmole: '~~localtime' is forcing scalar context. it's the same as 'scalar localtime' but more obfuscated
20:04 BooK or golfed
20:04 [particle] jkr: it calls the method if it exists
20:05 [particle] @object.?meth(@args) # see S12
20:05 [particle] er... @object>>.?meth(@args)
20:05 jkr I don't even know how to produce those characters on my keyboard
20:05 [particle] you mean the pointy french quote?
20:06 qmole [particle]: yeah :) how do you bitwise negate in p6?
20:06 jkr Yup
20:06 * qmole will miss the worm operator
20:06 [particle] there's an ascii version nicknamed 'texas quotes' << >>
20:06 jkr Ah
20:06 [particle] prefix:~^ is bitwise negation
20:06 [particle] ~^localtime
20:06 Schwern joined #perl6
20:07 [particle] er, make that ~^~^localtime
20:07 qmole haha
20:07 [particle] but it's better to force string context
20:07 lidden «» if you have an AltGr key AltGr-z and AltGr-x works
20:07 [particle] ~localtime
20:07 qmole no way, that's even cooler than ~~localtime
20:08 * qmole tells his coworkers
20:09 jkr lidden: Not for me
20:09 [particle] but, hrm, you'll probably have to force string context anyway after you've negated it twice
20:09 isaacd__ joined #perl6
20:10 qmole .. with ~~ perhaps
20:12 silug so i know this isn't the right place, but you all seem to be a reasonable bunch...  i have an opinion question.
20:12 mr_ank joined #perl6
20:13 offby1 opinions are like iPods -- everyone has one, and they all stink
20:13 silug do any of you see a problem with fedora splitting up thier perl package?  in other words, core perl would mostly be in the "perl" package, but there would also be some sub-packages for ExtUtils::MakeMaker, Test::More, stuff like that
20:13 offby1 for some value of "iPod"
20:13 thoughtpolice :( i love my ipod
20:13 REPLeffect For the record.  Not everyone has an ipod :-)
20:13 offby1 thoughtpolice: well, I said 'iPod' because it was a substitute for another word, and it has the right number of syllables and the correct stress
20:13 silug so normal scripts would usually Just Work, but "development" stuff would require installing some extra packages
20:13 fglock_ I don't have an iPod, but I have problems with my MacBook
20:14 REPLeffect my dad always uses "opinions are like noses"
20:14 REPLeffect when in mixed company :-)
20:14 thoughtpolice i would take a macbook. my sister got one for free. :(
20:14 offby1 REPLeffect: that does work.
20:15 REPLeffect and it's another body part.  Hehe.
20:15 offby1 REPLeffect: but then he must say "and they all smell", rather than "and they all stink"
20:15 fglock_ silug: more or less the same problem with debian; I find it annoying
20:15 offby1 "My dog has no nose!"   "Really?  How does she smell?"   "Just awful!"
20:15 offby1 haw hwa
20:15 REPLeffect his version is "opinions are like noses, everyone's got one".
20:15 unobe changed the nick to unobe_away
20:16 REPLeffect never used the "stinks" part
20:16 silug fglock_: but does debian have cool module auto-dependency stuff happening in the background?
20:16 REPLeffect offby1: there are no new jokes, just new audiences :-)
20:16 silug rpm "knows" what modules a package provides/requires without any manual intervention
20:17 wolverian silug, perl modules? no. dpkg doesn't parse perl.
20:17 wolverian (unfortunately, I suppose.. :)
20:17 silug rpm has a script that badly parses perl to determine dependencies, but it does work most of the time
20:18 thoughtpolice silug: isn't that available in just about every major linux package management system? (apt, portage, pacman, etc.)
20:18 wolverian thoughtpolice, no. they generally are concerned only with native packages, not perl's.
20:18 wolverian thoughtpolice, of course, perl modules provided in e.g. apt packages have manually determined dependencies.
20:19 silug thoughtpolice: rpm seems to rely less on the packager specifying dependencies and more on automagically figuring them out
20:19 silug (as a packager, i only have to worry about the ones rpm misses)
20:21 daxim changed the nick to daxim_
20:21 silug anyway, there's some precedence for splitting big packages up so that development tools aren't required for the base package
20:22 silug obviously there's some reluctance to do this to perl, since that's not the way we've done it for years
20:22 pugs_svnbot r16793 | fglock++ | trunk:
20:22 pugs_svnbot : [kp6] added KP6::Visitor::EmitPerl5Regex.pm placeholder
20:22 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/16793
20:22 silug but it is probably the right thing to do, in my opinion.
20:23 silug then again, i've also resisted some changes that break previous behavior with the justification that we can fix it in our perl 6 packages.  :)
20:23 fglock_ I wonder how hard it would be to make a package for v6.pm
20:23 silug i'm working on it
20:23 silug (for fedora, obviously)
20:25 silug sort of, at least.  i've mostly been concentrating on pugs.  the hard part is getting all the paths right.  we really want /usr/share/perl6 for arch-independent stuff, /usr/lib{,64}/perl6 for arch-dependent stuff, plus the vendor_perl/site_perl split in /usr and /usr/local respectively.
20:25 silug that doesn't appear to currently be supported in pugs
20:26 silug but it is on my list of things to do...
20:26 pasteling "evalbot_r16792" at 193.200.132.135 pasted "Pugs build failure" (6 lines, 278B) at http://sial.org/pbot/25969
20:26 bonesss joined #perl6
20:26 fglock_ silug: I'm also looking for opinions - on how we should implement 'use' (perl6 supports specifying package versions)
20:27 silug that's going to make packaging even more fun.
20:27 fglock_ silug: the files in /debian might give you some start point
20:27 silug do you just look for everything that can satisfy the dependency in @INC, then pick the one that matches the version?
20:28 silug or do you actually have to handle multiple versions installed to the same area in the filesystem?
20:28 fglock_ silug: you have to handle multiple versions
20:29 silug so how's that going to work?  is the version appended to the filename or something?
20:29 fglock_ otoh, 'use' is compile-time, so you have the option to link statically for distribution
20:29 fglock_ silug: not specified yet
20:29 silug ick
20:30 spinclad 9~zx
20:30 fglock_ linux distros would probably provide examples of what works or not
20:31 fglock_ silug: are you going to YAPC::EU?
20:31 wolverian I wonder how sane cabal's design is in that respect
20:31 silug fglock_: no, i'm in the middle of .us
20:32 silug and i'm starting to regret not making it to YAPC::NA
20:33 fglock_ silug: how about (re)starting a discussion in the p6 mailing list
20:33 Schwern joined #perl6
20:36 silug fglock_: i'm just starting to work on this stuff again after some number of months.  i need to get back up to speed on everything before i post about random stuff.
20:37 silug it's one thing looking like an idiot on irc...  ;)
20:38 fglock_ you can start with "what's the plan so far?"
20:38 spinclad (oop s/9~zx//)
20:40 lichtkind joined #perl6
20:41 lichtkind moritz: and your comments?
20:42 weinig joined #perl6
20:43 buu Are there any ops in here?
20:43 [particle] it seems you're one
20:43 offby1 well, _you've_ got a strudel on.
20:43 buu ircops
20:43 [particle] probably not
20:43 [particle] check #freenode
20:51 rhr joined #perl6
20:54 pugs_svnbot r16794 | fglock++ | trunk:
20:54 pugs_svnbot : [kp6] KP6::Visitor::EmitPerl5Regex.pm compiles; several more fixes needed
20:54 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/16794
20:58 TristinD joined #perl6
21:08 diakopter drupek12: you around?
21:12 rlb3_work joined #perl6
21:21 pugs_svnbot r16795 | fglock++ | trunk:
21:21 pugs_svnbot : [kp6] working EmitPerl5Regex.pm; start migrating from temp/backtracking-recursive-subrule.pl
21:21 pugs_svnbot :   $ perl kp6-perl5.pl --do EmitPerl5Regex  < examples/token2.pl | perltidy
21:21 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/16795
21:21 prism joined #perl6
21:32 fglock_ &
21:32 weinig_ joined #perl6
21:40 rashakil joined #perl6
21:45 kane_ joined #perl6
21:56 weinig joined #perl6
22:15 buu Jmax:
22:16 weinig changed the nick to weinig|coffee
22:17 alindeman joined #perl6
22:17 Jmax buu
22:18 buu Jmax: Tell us about gnaa.
22:18 Jmax cocks and balls
22:39 weinig|coffee changed the nick to weinig
22:40 rlb3 joined #perl6
22:48 polettix joined #perl6
22:49 cmarcelo_ left #perl6
22:54 nperez joined #perl6
22:55 nperez I do thoroughly enjoy living 4.5 miles away from work
22:56 TimToady I can walk to work in 35 minutes, past the Computer History museum and the Googleplex.  Now *that's* a nice commute.  :)
22:57 nperez When the weather is nicer (ie. not raining or 100+ degrees) I like to cycle into work
23:01 TimToady Computer History representing the people that are too old, and Google representing the people that are too young.  :)
23:13 weinig_ joined #perl6
23:14 SamB what is this "too old" thing?
23:15 weinig joined #perl6
23:15 Schwern In my day, we called nickels "Bumblebees"!  Give me five bees for a quarter we'd say!
23:16 Schwern And I had an onion tied to my belt, which was the style at the time
23:18 Schwern http://www.oldmansimpson.com/sounds/season04/lets/sound01.mp3
23:18 daxim joined #perl6
23:21 TimToady SamB: I'm trying my best to stay out of the Computer History Museum, and probably not succeeding...  :)
23:22 SamB TimToady: I'd totally go
23:22 SamB on one of the PDP-1 demonstration days
23:22 TimToady Oh, I've been as a viewer; I mean as an exhibit.
23:22 SamB ah
23:22 SamB I didn't know you were a computer
23:23 TimToady It was funny to see an Amiga 1000 up on the shelf, and realize I have one current *running* at home...
23:23 TimToady *currently
23:24 TimToady well, maybe not since the last powerfail...
23:25 SamB it isn't so strange
23:25 SamB most of the exhibits could still be running at people's homes, if the people hadn't thrown them out
23:25 SamB if they ever were home computers, I mean ;-)
23:25 * SamB is guessing
23:26 TimToady well, I've known people who run PDP-11 in their garage...
23:26 SamB by that, I mean I don't actually know any of their exhibits besides the PDP-1...
23:31 Juerd I wonder what percentage of the exhibits in that museum supports ASCII :)
23:32 TimToady by count or by weight?
23:35 Juerd TimToady: Heh. Count :)
23:35 Juerd By weight probably no more than 4% :)
23:36 Juerd Every time I see a sort { }, or use one myself, I want Perl 6.  sort has this effect more than any other operator.
23:36 Juerd .=sort is cool too.
23:42 weinig joined #perl6
23:56 Schwern joined #perl6

| Channels | #perl6 index | Today | | Search | Google Search | Plain-Text | summary

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo