Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2007-07-06

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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00:16 dduncan fyi, I'm now getting a "Subroutine use_test_base redefined at ../../inc/Module/Install/TestBase.pm line 13." message for every Makefile.PL that is run
00:17 dduncan but those seem to be warnings and everything still works
00:17 dduncan that I'm aware of
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01:17 pugs_svnbot r16855 | Darren_Duncan++ | trunk:
01:17 pugs_svnbot : ext/Muldis-DB/ : updated all module versions to 0.1.0, and added version numbers to all pod-only files
01:17 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/16855
01:17 lambdabot Title: Changeset 16855 - Pugs - Trac
01:20 pasteling "evalbot_r16854" at 193.200.132.135 pasted "Pugs build failure" (6 lines, 278B) at http://sial.org/pbot/26052
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02:07 thoughtpolice they don't give up, do they
02:08 diakopter <sigh>
02:26 yum_ what losers
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02:26 Patterner Where can we vote for removing php bindings? :)
02:27 diakopter :P
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03:11 agentzh lambdabot is back?
03:11 agentzh @karma agentz
03:11 lambdabot agentz has a karma of 97
03:11 agentzh sweet
03:12 diakopter agentz++
03:12 agentzh wow, i'll hit 100 if you continue ;)
03:13 agentzh what's the best way for testing ASTs?
03:14 agentzh YAML? YAML::Syck? Data::Dumper? or a customized dumper?
03:14 agentzh .oO( Test::More::is_deeply is not so good )
03:15 diakopter If someone says they're "fighting the war on terror", does that mean they're fighting [against] the war [against] terror[ists]?  or they're [singlehandedly?] fighting *the war* [against] terror[ists]?
03:16 thoughtpolice good question
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03:20 agentzh svn up takes years on my side. anyone is having the same problem?
03:21 * diakopter tries it
03:23 agentzh "64 bytes from feather.perl6.nl (193.200.132.135): icmp_seq=3 ttl=38 time=745 ms"
03:24 TimToady load avg on feather is pretty low
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03:25 diakopter mine updated in a coupla seconds from about 20 revs ago
03:25 TimToady yeah, pretty fast here too
03:28 agentzh seems to be my local network problems :(
03:30 TimToady in that case we will hope it is very local
03:30 TimToady since those tend to be easier to fix
03:31 agentzh *nod*
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03:59 agentzh_ restarting the pppoe conection 3 times helps and svn up works again :)
03:59 agentzh_ but my new ip is banned by CBL :(
04:01 diakopter so that's what was disrupting your network... :)
04:02 diakopter drones on your segment
04:02 diakopter or something
04:02 agentzh_ heh
04:02 agentzh_ anyway i'm able to hack :)
04:03 agentzh_ lunch &
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04:13 thoughtpolice is the circumfix category in defining your own operators currently broken or somesuch? I would assume not, but in no case where I've specified any of them have they worked
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04:36 Shangrila hello
04:36 diakopter hello
04:36 Shangrila hi diakopter :)
04:36 diakopter welcome to #perl6
04:37 Shangrila thanks
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05:51 lidden ?eval "$(my $x = <1 2>.pick) $x"
05:51 evalbot_r16845 changed the nick to evalbot_r16855
05:51 evalbot_r16855 "\$(my  = <1 2>.pick) "
05:52 lidden TimToady: You said three days ago that that should work. I was about to add a test for it but cant find anything about it in the synopses, so now I am a little confused.
05:53 lidden would C< is("$(my $x = 2) $x", '2 2'); > be a correct test?
05:54 TimToady I believe so
05:55 TimToady likewise is("$(my $x = 2)" ~ $x, '22')
05:57 TimToady in either case it should be adding to the current outer lexical scope
05:57 diakopter ?eval "$(my $x = <1 2>.pick)" eq $x
05:57 evalbot_r16855 Bool::False
05:57 TimToady unlike "{ my $x = 2 }" which would be limited by the {...} scope
05:58 diakopter ?eval "$(our $x = <1 2>.pick)" eq $x
05:58 evalbot_r16855 Bool::False
05:58 diakopter ?eval "$(your $x = <1 2>.pick)" eq $x
05:58 TimToady I don't believe it's currently parsed right
05:58 evalbot_r16855 Bool::False
05:58 diakopter :)
05:59 TimToady ?eval "$(your $x = <1 2>.pick)"
05:59 evalbot_r16855 "\$(your  = <1 2>.pick)"
05:59 diakopter oh
06:00 diakopter "$(expr)" doesn't work at all?
06:00 TimToady ENOTIMPL
06:00 diakopter or is that "$(stmt)"
06:00 TimToady ?eval "$(42)"
06:00 pugs_svnbot r16856 | lidden++ | trunk:
06:00 evalbot_r16855 "\$(42)"
06:00 pugs_svnbot : Test for interpolation into double quoted strings.
06:00 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/16856
06:00 lambdabot Title: Changeset 16856 - Pugs - Trac
06:01 TimToady in theory could be a statement
06:02 TimToady ?eval "@($_ * 2 if $_ % 1 for @foo)"
06:02 evalbot_r16855 "\@( * 2 if  \% 1 for \@foo)"
06:08 pasteling "evalbot_r16856" at 193.200.132.135 pasted "Pugs build failure" (6 lines, 278B) at http://sial.org/pbot/26055
06:08 pugs_svnbot r16857 | lwall++ | trunk:
06:08 pugs_svnbot : parens weren't setting up statement context
06:08 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/16857
06:08 lambdabot Title: Changeset 16857 - Pugs - Trac
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08:39 meppl good morning
08:40 andara good morning meppl
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08:45 meppl good morning andara
09:01 wolverian ah, capuccino and sanity
09:01 wolverian surely they are related.
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10:47 agentzh dduncan: thanks for the info. i'll try fixing the use_test_base thing tomorrow :)
10:48 agentzh avar: are you working on compile_p6grammar?
10:49 agentzh avar: i've got a lot of PCR-related stuff done in the classroom this afternoon and i'm now quite close to getting compile_p6grammar working again :)
10:51 agentzh fglock: i'm thinking about making PCR more p5-ish. i'm going to introduce a "pure p5 mode" for PCR, in which PCR will not try to treat regex actions as Perl 6.
10:52 agentzh fglock: i'm afraid it's a shame for PCR to rely on v6.pm to compile itself.
10:53 agentzh fglock: i believe it's quite simple to get PCR compile a modified version of Rule2.pm merely using itself (without v6.pm, of course)
10:54 agentzh fglock: i'm going to implement Pugs::Compiler::Grammar tomorrow for compiling an updated version of Rule2.pm (which will be Rule2.pm :))
10:54 agentzh s/will be Rule2.pm/will be Rule3.pm/
10:58 agentzh ...as well as Pugs::Emitter::Grammar::Perl5 :)
11:00 agentzh see you guys tomorrow ;) &
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11:27 fglock__ agentzh: ping
11:28 fglock__ re 'treat regex actions as Perl 6' - PCR doesn't do that by itself; this is only under v6.pm
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11:31 fglock__ agentzh: hmm - maybe you mean the source filter in the emitter
11:32 fglock__ which was used for bootstrapping
11:33 fglock__ I think v6.pm still relies on it
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12:28 diakopter dalek: seen diakopter
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12:29 diakopter dalek: seen diakopter
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12:31 diakopter dalek: !seen diakopter
12:32 args seen the_doctor
12:32 diakopter !seen diakopter
12:32 devbot6 diakopter: Error: "seen" is not a valid command.
12:33 BinGOs Wee. Finally smoking pugs on NetBSD-3.1
12:34 BinGOs compiled quite quick as well. Hurray.
12:35 riffraff I see pugs/inc which I never noticed before.. what is in it?
12:36 riffraff I mean not "ls inc", but what is the intent :)
12:37 avar @tell agentzh no, I'm not working on the p6 grammar compiler
12:37 lambdabot Consider it noted.
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13:11 diakopter ProperNoun: would you like commit access to the pugs repo?
13:12 diakopter er, that's an open invitation to everyone here, I mean
13:13 diakopter nice
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13:58 diakopter PARROT
14:01 DarkWolf84 ???
14:01 diakopter sorry :)
14:01 * BinGOs squawks.
14:02 BinGOs o.O
14:02 diakopter hrm
14:02 BinGOs =[
14:02 diakopter accursed dalek
14:03 BinGOs is this buu's dalekbot code ?
14:03 diakopter no
14:03 diakopter :)
14:03 BinGOs oh good >:)
14:03 BinGOs but it is a bot ?
14:03 diakopter yeah
14:03 diakopter /msg it
14:04 BinGOs please tell me it ain't Net::IRC
14:04 * diakopter thinks
14:04 [particle1 changed the nick to [particle]
14:04 BinGOs It is not very talkative
14:05 DarkWolf84 who?
14:05 BinGOs dalek
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14:06 DarkWolf84 why the channel limit is changed so many times
14:07 BinGOs heh
14:07 diakopter it's a poor implementation of join rate restriction in that bot... I'll fix it since hyperion does it for us
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14:30 diakopter BinGOs: no, it's not Net::IRC-based
14:32 BinGOs \o/
14:36 diakopter but it is perl
14:38 diakopter ugh; I suppose freenode *really* wants bots to reply to ^AVERSION^A
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14:42 diakopter ugh
14:48 fglock___ pmichaud: rehi
14:48 BinGOs ENODALEK
14:49 avar /nick CYBERMEN; VICTORY IS OURS
14:49 diakopter EPHPRULESPERL
14:49 fglock___ pmichaud: I'll be back in about 5h
14:49 pmichaud okay, that's good for me
14:50 * diakopter stares quizzically at avar
14:54 fglock___ afk
14:56 diakopter avar: aha! another drwho ref
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15:26 avar w 4
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15:59 thoughtpolice mornin' everybody
16:01 [particle] heya
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16:55 pugs_svnbot r16858 | lwall++ | trunk:
16:55 pugs_svnbot : [STD] lotsa places where multiple "statements" should be allowed in brackets
16:55 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/16858
16:55 lambdabot Title: Changeset 16858 - Pugs - Trac
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17:01 aharoni hi
17:01 aharoni is there anything like perldiag for pugs?
17:01 Tene Hi. :)
17:03 gogonkt1 joined #perl6
17:05 daxim not yet, wanna write one?
17:06 TimToady 'course, if the diags have to be explained, a good case could be made that the diags are inadequate...
17:09 TimToady and there should probably be an option to add explanatory URLs to diagnostics (language sensitive too)
17:10 [particle1 then write a perldoc:// protocol, and a docserv....
17:10 [particle1 changed the nick to [particle]
17:10 Juerd perldoc:// protocol specification:
17:11 Juerd 1. gopher
17:11 Juerd 2. serving POD
17:11 aharoni i'll gladly start writing something.
17:11 Juerd 3. profit?
17:11 aharoni is there some central file in which there's a list of all diag messages?
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17:12 TimToady no, it's currently scattered about in the various sources
17:12 TimToady we haven't really I18n'ed it yet
17:13 TimToady and I haven't really specced what the diags should be, if we want consistency across various implementations
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17:15 aharoni ?eval "25 + foo()"
17:15 evalbot_r16855 changed the nick to evalbot_r16858
17:15 evalbot_r16858 "25 + foo()"
17:15 aharoni eh...
17:15 TimToady leave off the quotes
17:15 aharoni yeah
17:15 aharoni ?eval 25 + foo()
17:15 evalbot_r16858 Error: No such subroutine: &foo
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17:16 aharoni OK - where does this come from in the source?
17:16 aharoni (i'm a very green pugs hacker, please be gentle :) )
17:16 TimToady I'd use some kind of a recursive grep to find it
17:16 TimToady it's very likely in src/Pugs though
17:17 TimToady ./src/Pugs/Eval.hs:
17:17 diakopter_afk changed the nick to diakopter
17:18 TimToady aharoni: are you familiar with Haskell?
17:19 aharoni yeah, i started studying it. Audrey's presentation got me very excited about it
17:19 TimToady I expect there's some degree of regularity to how audreyt did the error messages in pugs
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17:21 aharoni i'm sure there's something - the code impressed me with its cleanliness, even though i know little Haskell
17:21 diakopter Juerd: apache2 was using *tons* of ram/cpu (too much even to start some of the svnbots) on feather, so I changed the apache2 logs to rotate daily (they were huge) instead of weekly, and it seems to have helped apache's responsiveness.  now to see if it has helped the ram situation.
17:22 TimToady strange
17:23 dduncan how would a log size affect ram usage?
17:23 dduncan isn't a log just appending to a disk file?
17:24 diakopter I've seen apache get very bogged down when appending to very big (500MBish) log files
17:24 diakopter and that causes apache2 children to be waiting often, which means more children are required to be forked
17:26 diakopter hrm. we need a http log file analyzer.
17:28 diakopter oh.  here's [one/another reason] why it's slow at the moment - googlebot is grabbing html diffs of every revision of both pugs and parrot.
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17:28 [particle1 egad.
17:29 lumi Um
17:29 [particle1 should definitely disallow that.
17:29 [particle1 changed the nick to [particle]
17:30 Tene robots.txt++
17:30 diakopter yeah
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17:38 dduncan that would seem odd, since its not re-reading those log files or keeping them in ram, is it?
17:46 diakopter shutting down apache for a minute or two...
17:46 diakopter after lwall finishes committing...
17:46 TimToady done
17:46 pugs_svnbot r16859 | lwall++ | trunk:
17:46 pugs_svnbot : [STD] distinguish statement list from context-sensitive semi list syntactically
17:46 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/16859
17:46 lambdabot Title: Changeset 16859 - Pugs - Trac
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17:52 pasteling "evalbot_r16858" at 193.200.132.135 pasted "Pugs build failure" (6 lines, 278B) at http://sial.org/pbot/26064
17:53 Psyche^ changed the nick to Patterner
17:59 diakopter better.
18:01 Limbic_Region joined #perl6
18:02 Yaakov Better is relative.
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19:09 obra TimToady: ping
19:09 TimToady pong
19:09 bloonix does 'say' in perl 6 appends a newline auto?
19:10 [particle] yes.
19:10 TimToady use print if you don't want that
19:10 obra TimToady: what time does your flight hit boston on the 13th?
19:11 obra "hopefully for very gentle values of hit"
19:11 TimToady checking...
19:11 obra thanks
19:11 [particle] or very ethereal values of boston.
19:11 bloonix okay, I though it's a feature in Perl6::Say :)
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19:12 diakopter8 hey, this actually isn't too bad.
19:12 diakopter8 joined #perl6
19:13 diakopter8 'cept for all the images having the wrong paths
19:13 pugs_svnbot r16860 | Darren_Duncan++ | trunk:
19:13 pugs_svnbot : ext/Muldis-DB/ : shortened Copying.pod, other small docs updates
19:13 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/16860
19:13 lambdabot Title: Changeset 16860 - Pugs - Trac
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19:19 TimToady obra: 10:45 pm AA (via SFO)
19:19 obra Ah. ok.
19:20 obra On the 13th, yes?
19:20 obra I'll be coming from LAX. Hm. I wonder if...
19:20 diakopter8 joined #perl6
19:20 obra Connections from LAX on friday are hurting. it may be easiest for me to get home by...flying through SFO
19:21 TimToady forwarded you the emails (finally)
19:21 TimToady had to dig around on my old disk drive...
19:21 obra thanks
19:21 diakopter8 test
19:26 fglock___ rehi
19:29 fglock___ pmichaud: ping?
19:29 diakopter8 joined #perl6
19:30 diakopter8 test
19:31 obra TimToady: got the mail.
19:32 fglock___ obra: hi :)
19:32 obra hey fglock___
19:34 TimToady Howdy, fglock___, you fantastic person you.
19:34 fglock___ I love you too :)
19:35 Juerd diakopter8: Okay. Weird; huge files shouldn't slow things down in append mode.
19:36 TimToady maybe there's something weird about journaled raids going on that surpasses the inefficiency of triple indirect blocks...
19:38 obra oh. is this still the issue we were seeing with commitbit?
19:39 TimToady doubt it--that was, I believe, a continuously interrupting device
19:40 TimToady or was it bad memory?
19:40 TimToady the two not being mutually exclusive...
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19:53 fglock___ TimToady: would you sanity check my p6rx-on-p5rx idea? http://svn.pugscode.org/pugs/v6/v6-KindaPe​rl6/temp/backtracking-recursive-subrule.pl
19:53 lambdabot http://tinyurl.com/29lv29
19:53 pmichaud fglock___: pong
19:54 fglock___ pmichaud: I'd like to show you kp6...
19:55 pmichaud fglock___: you mean walk through the code?  will it take long?
19:56 fglock___ not really - I'd like to discuss the high level structure
19:57 fglock___ hmm - 15 minutes?
19:57 pmichaud okay, sounds great
19:57 fglock___ cool
19:58 fglock___ this shows kp6 as implemented today: http://svn.pugscode.org/pugs/v6/docs/kp6.jpg
19:58 fglock___ kp6 is p6 compiler written in miniperl6
19:58 avar fglock___: backtracking-recursive-subrule looks nice
19:58 fglock___ kp6-on-perl5 contains a runtime written in perl5
19:59 fglock___ avar: thanks
19:59 avar fglock___: do you have anything that compiles down to that p5 structure yet?
19:59 fglock___ pmichaud: the AST processors are pluggable; you can select what processing is best for each backend
20:00 avar fglock___: talk to pmichaud first:)
20:00 fglock___ avar: under kp6, yes - but I'm having problems with the mop right now
20:01 fglock___ pmichaud: about the regex engine, the default option is to compile regexes into plain code, using 'substr' and 'eq'
20:02 pmichaud what is "plain code"?
20:02 fglock___ but you can choose to use a native lib
20:02 fglock___ Perl6 code, which is then recompiled into native code
20:02 fglock___ this is how miniperl6 works, too
20:02 fglock___ so the regex engine is very portable
20:02 pmichaud so, basically you have a regex engine written in perl 6?
20:02 fglock___ but kinda slow
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20:03 fglock___ yes
20:03 pmichaud nice
20:03 fglock___ in miniperl6
20:03 fglock___ it feeds back into the compiler
20:03 pmichaud the regex engine feeds back into which compiler?
20:03 fglock___ into kp6
20:04 fglock___ it's recursive
20:04 pmichaud I don't quite follow that
20:04 fglock___ parser -> regex-parser -> perl6-code -> parser -> ast
20:05 fglock___ parser -> regex-parser -> regex-ast -> regex-emitter -> perl6-code -> parser -> ast
20:05 pmichaud the regex parser is kinda like a front end to kp6, then
20:07 fglock___ there is an AST processor that takes care of that: it emits the 'regex' nodes to kp6, and reparse into AST again
20:07 fglock___ s/to kp6/to miniperl6/
20:08 pmichaud okay, got it
20:08 fglock___ this is the code, just in case: http://svn.pugscode.org/pugs/v6/v6-Kind​aPerl6/lib/KindaPerl6/Visitor/Token.pm
20:08 lambdabot http://tinyurl.com/24p335
20:09 avar fglock___: what files implement the rx parse/rx ast/rx emitter?
20:11 fglock___ avar: Kp6::Grammar::Regex does the parse & AST; Visitor::Token is the miniperl6-AST emitter; Visitor::EmitPerl5Regex is the p6rx-on-p5rx emitter
20:12 fglock___ we can have a PGE emitter too
20:12 pmichaud ...PGE emitter?
20:12 fglock___ pmichaud: the other part of the compiler is the BEGIN processor
20:13 fglock___ re PGE - we can call into PGE, from kp6-in-parrot (when it gets ready)
20:13 pmichaud ...but PGE is a regex compiler
20:13 pmichaud so I'm not sure what a 'PGE emitter' would look like
20:14 avar presumably it would stop at the regex-parser step basically and emit PIR needed to call PGE
20:14 fglock___ the idea is to replace the kp6 modules with native modules, as much as possible; the "emulation" modules should be optional
20:14 fglock___ PGE would replace the kp6 grammar engine, or complement it
20:15 pmichaud okay
20:16 fglock___ about the BEGIN processor, it executes some code, and then looks for side-effects
20:16 fglock___ the side-effects part is tricky
20:16 pmichaud but I think that would really need to take place at the "Perl 6 AST" stage, rather than as an "emitter"
20:17 fglock___ kp6 doesn't make much distinction between an AST-processor and an emitter; they are just part of a "workflow"
20:17 pmichaud or is that the "DSL" section in the middle?
20:17 fglock___ there is a single API
20:17 pmichaud "DSL" is "domain specific language"?
20:18 fglock___ yes - but I've changed my mind a little, I'm integrating this into the main grammar
20:18 fglock___ the DSL-grammar part, that is
20:19 fglock___ the DSL-ast processors are plain plugins
20:21 pmichaud okay, got it so far
20:21 fglock___ that's it :)
20:21 pmichaud it seems odd that the BEGIN processor is separate from the main compiler
20:21 fglock___ it is a module
20:22 fglock___ I think the parrot version would likely be implemented in parrot, for efficiency
20:23 fglock___ the Perl version uses a complicated Pad scheme
20:23 pmichaud well, my thinking of BEGIN for parrot has been that it would be just a normal part of the compilation process
20:23 pmichaud except at the conclusion of a BEGIN block we go ahead and execute it
20:24 pmichaud (i.e., after parsing a BEGIN block, we go ahead and complete compilation on the block and initiate execution of the code generated by it)
20:24 TimToady at CHECK time you have to have a way of saving a snapshot to start up again for separate compilation
20:25 TimToady fglock___: btw, p6rx-on-p5rx looks okay to me on first glance
20:25 fglock___ parrot gives you a lot of control on the pads, but perl needs to do a lot of work to get to the side-effects (the snapshot)
20:25 fglock___ TimToady: cool - thanks a lot!
20:25 pmichaud I was thinking the side-effects would be stored in the code generated by the BEGIN block
20:26 fglock___ yes, but how do you generate that code?
20:26 pmichaud same way I generate any other sub :-)
20:26 pmichaud or block
20:26 TimToady you mean, capture the side effects of a BEGIN into an INIT?
20:27 TimToady can't just rerun the BEGIN...
20:27 fglock___ like:  $a ::= 9; BEGIN { $a := $a + 1 }  -->  runtime:  { $a := 10 }
20:27 pmichaud I hadn't thought about it in terms of BEGIN/CHECK/INIT sequence, so I can't say for sure how that would go
20:28 weinig joined #perl6
20:28 TimToady this may be one area where parrot as stayed a bit in the p5ish mode...
20:28 TimToady s/as/has/
20:29 pmichaud indeed, that's one of the challenges at the moment
20:29 pmichaud it's not entirely clear how one can "snapshot" things in Parrot
20:30 pmichaud but, in some ways something like  $a ::= 9;   is already acting as a self-contained "BEGIN" block, in that it's defining something to be done during parsing/compilation
20:30 pmichaud so, that semantic has to be captured in the compiled code as well :-|
20:30 fglock___ yes, it does
20:30 fglock___ 'use' is also a begin-ish thing
20:30 pmichaud yes, exactly
20:31 TimToady indeed, you have to pretend the compilation is real until CHECK time, where it becomes some kind of freeze/thaw problem for existing data, not just code.
20:31 fglock___ kp6 has a 'Pad' module, that can create lexical scopes and inspect them for changes
20:31 fglock___ and reemit the changes as code
20:33 avar fglock___: what syntax for regexes does kp6 understand?
20:33 avar it's giving a syntax error for class Main { "foo" ~~ /bar/ }
20:34 fglock___ avar: regexes are currently plain methods:  something like - Main.bar( "foo" )
20:35 avar I just want something I can use to test/improve the p5 rx emitter
20:36 fglock___ avar: I've got a test here, I'll commit it
20:36 avar thanks
20:37 diakopter fglock__: hang on a bit
20:37 diakopter please
20:37 dduncan ooo, lots of underscores
20:38 fglock___ diakopter: you mean, not commit yet?
20:38 diakopter yeah; apache is off still
20:40 aharoni left #perl6
20:40 pasteling "fglock" at 201.54.129.80 pasted "kp6 p6rx-on-p5rx test" (13 lines, 213B) at http://sial.org/pbot/26074
20:41 fglock___ avar: that code doesn't work yet; there is some problem with the MOP
20:42 barney joined #perl6
20:42 fglock___ it would be run with:  perl -I lib5regex -I lib
20:42 diakopter k it's back
20:45 obra TimToady: Ok. looks like I'm hitting BOS about 45 minutes before you.
20:45 pugs_svnbot r16861 | fglock++ | trunk:
20:45 pugs_svnbot : [kp6] added examples/token-test.pl - a simple test for p6rx-on-p5rx devel
20:45 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/16861
20:45 lambdabot Title: Changeset 16861 - Pugs - Trac
20:45 diakopter Limbic_Region: if you're reading the logs, try CGI::IRC again... should work for  you now.  got the correct auth method and everything.
20:47 pasteling "evalbot_r16860" at 193.200.132.135 pasted "Pugs build failure" (6 lines, 278B) at http://sial.org/pbot/26075
20:47 diakopter9 joined #perl6
20:48 fglock___ avar: can you run the compiler on it?
20:48 diakopter9 left #perl6
20:48 fglock___ you should see something like:  qr/(?{ local $GLOBAL::_M = [ $GLOBAL::_M, 'create', pos(), \$_ ]; $GLOBAL::_M2 = $GLOBAL::_M; })(?:(?:42))(?{ local $GLOBAL::_M = [ $GLOBAL::_M, 'to', pos() ]; $GLOBAL::_M2 = $GLOBAL::_M; })/x
20:48 fglock___ which is the code for 'token { 42 }' :)
20:49 avar sh-3.1$ perl kp6-perl5.pl examples/token-test.pl | perl -Ilib -Ilib5regex
20:49 avar Can't use bareword ("X") as a HASH ref while "strict refs" in use at - line 3.
20:49 elmex joined #perl6
20:50 fglock___ yes, that's the MOP error
20:51 fglock___ but you should use this options:  -do MetaClass EmitPerl5Regex
20:51 fglock___ in order to use the p5rx processor
20:51 avar sh-3.1$ perl kp6-perl5.pl -do MetaClass EmitPerl5Regex examples/token-test.pl
20:51 avar Warning: Use of "require" without parentheses is ambiguous at (eval 5) line 1.
20:51 avar Can't load examples/token-test.pl plugin: Search pattern not terminated at (eval 5) line 1.
20:52 fglock___ use '<' before examples/token-test.pl - it thinks it's a plugin name :)
20:54 fglock___ I mean: $ perl kp6-perl5.pl -do MetaClass EmitPerl5Regex < examples/token-test.pl
20:55 weirdo joined #perl6
20:55 weirdo pugs> "0" or die
20:55 weirdo *** Died
20:55 weirdo why, oh why is this continuing in p6?
20:56 weirdo wait.
20:56 weirdo oh well
20:56 weirdo guess some things don't change :/
20:57 weirdo it's what makes the '||=' operator nearly useless
20:57 avar eval: "0" but False
20:57 avar ?eval "0" but False
20:57 evalbot_r16858 changed the nick to evalbot_r16861
20:57 evalbot_r16861 Error: Cannot cast from VBool False to Pugs.AST.Internals.VCode (VCode)
20:57 avar urr
20:57 fglock___ avar: did it work?
20:58 avar $ perl kp6-perl5.pl -do MetaClass EmitPerl5Regex < examples/token-test.pl|perl -Ilib -Ilib5regex
20:58 avar Can't use bareword ("X") as a HASH ref while "strict refs" in use at - line 3.
20:59 fglock___ yes, I'll fix that - but the p5regex should look ok in the source code (if you use perltidy)
21:02 fglock___ I'll try to debug MetaClass+EmitPerl5Regex over the weekend
21:02 weirdo left #perl6
21:15 fglock___ avar: you said 'I just want something I can use to test/improve the p5 rx emitter' - I hope you are not too disappointed
21:18 fglock___ home &
21:19 Limbic_Region joined #perl6
21:19 rashakil joined #perl6
21:19 Qiang left #perl6
21:52 diakopter changed the nick to diakopter_afk
22:01 weinig joined #perl6
22:10 bloonix for <foo bar baz> { say } prints 3 newlines, but not more :/
22:10 bloonix for <foo bar baz> { say $_ } works well
22:11 avar how about { .say }?
22:11 PerlJam bloonix: you want .say
22:11 Tene bloonix: .say
22:11 * Tene too late
22:11 bloonix I'm reading a little perl 6 tutorial and it seems that some things are not correct :/
22:12 PerlJam bloonix: things change.  When was the tutorial written and by whom?
22:12 bloonix HerbertBreunung - 03 Apr 2006
22:13 bloonix ah
22:13 bloonix moritz corrects it
22:13 bloonix MoritzLenz - 26 Feb 2007 - for @foo {say} durch {.say} ersetzt
22:13 bloonix :)
22:14 bloonix . implies to use $_ ?
22:14 TimToady when there's whitespace in front of it, yes.
22:14 bloonix .say for <foo bar baz>;
22:14 bloonix fine
22:14 Tene bare .foo is short for $_.foo
22:14 TimToady well, more techinically, when it's not expecting a postfix
22:15 TimToady ?eval for <foo bar baz> {.say}
22:15 evalbot_r16861 OUTPUT[foo␤bar␤baz␤] undef
22:18 bloonix for expect a list and loop a condition? mixes are not possible?
22:19 Tene bloonix: ?
22:19 bloonix for ($i=0; $i<5; $i++){ say $i }
22:19 bloonix s/for/loop/ now
22:19 Tene Right, that's named 'loop' in perl
22:20 Tene erm
22:20 Tene in perl 6
22:21 bloonix ;)
22:21 PerlJam Tene: around here, perl is perl 6  :)
22:21 thoughtpolice vroom.
22:21 thoughtpolice how goes the hacking?
22:24 * TimToady .oO(obviously, too busy hacking to answer)
22:24 bloonix sorry, I'm a bit confused...
22:24 bloonix for $+.keys { .say }
22:25 PerlJam bloonix: me too.
22:25 bloonix $+ = environment
22:25 PerlJam not any more (if it ever was)
22:25 bloonix say $+HOME = /home/bloonix
22:26 TimToady we call them contextual variables now
22:26 PerlJam maybe I should re-read a synopsis or two  :)
22:26 PerlJam TimToady: is $+.keys meaningful?
22:26 TimToady $+ is not a hash
22:26 bloonix in perl 5 is write "print for keys %ENV"
22:26 bloonix s/is/I/
22:26 TimToady $+ is not just for getting to ENV
22:27 TimToady it gets any contextual variable, and has to run up the call stack to find it
22:27 TimToady so it doesn't really know the keys
22:27 bloonix okay
22:27 TimToady the %*ENV array is just the final place to look.
22:28 bloonix for %ENV.keys { .say }
22:28 bloonix ^^
22:28 TimToady have to say %*ENV
22:28 TimToady or import it into your current package
22:29 TimToady both the %*ENV and the .say change are since we started a search-and-destroy mission for wherever the user had to memorize arbitrary lists
22:29 Tene Which arbitrary list was %*ENV?
22:30 TimToady well, originally, in p5, the list of symbols that magically appear in every package.
22:30 TimToady in p6, just the list of auto-imported syms from *
22:30 TimToady we decided the * was worth not autoimporting
22:30 Tene *nod*
22:30 TimToady with .say, the list of functions that happen to default to $_
22:31 TimToady we've also gotten rid of the list regex metachars
22:31 TimToady s/list/list of/
22:32 bloonix I dont understand that:
22:32 bloonix %hash<<foo>>
22:33 TimToady usually just just <foo> there
22:33 TimToady the double angle forms are for interpolating now
22:33 Jmax joined #perl6
22:33 TimToady %hash<foo> is the new $hash{foo}
22:34 TimToady the p5 form was always a source of confusion
22:34 bloonix but %hash{foo} is also possible?
22:34 TimToady only if foo is a function of 0 args
22:35 TimToady there is no special autoquoting inside {...} anymore
22:35 TimToady and the <foo> forms can be applied more consistently across the language
22:37 bloonix say %hash{foo}; -> *** No such subroutine: "&foo"
22:37 bloonix okay
22:37 bloonix http://faq.perl-community.de/bin/vie​w/Wissensbasis/Perl6TutorialKapitel3
22:37 lambdabot Title: PerlCommunityWiki » Wissensbasis » Perl6TutorialKapitel3, http://tinyurl.com/2aseb9
22:37 bloonix there seems a lot of things older
22:39 bloonix hmmm
22:40 bloonix my %perl6leute = ('audrey'=>'pugs', 'leo'=>'parrot', 'damian'=>"larry's evil henchman");
22:40 bloonix say %hash<audrey>;
22:40 bloonix ***Unexpected "<audrey" ...
22:42 TimToady ?eval my %perl6leute = ('audrey'=>'pugs', 'leo'=>'parrot', 'damian'=>"larry's evil henchman"); say %hash<audrey>;
22:42 evalbot_r16861 OUTPUT[␤] Bool::True
22:42 TimToady ?eval my %perl6leute = ('audrey'=>'pugs', 'leo'=>'parrot', 'damian'=>"larry's evil henchman"); say %perl6leute<audrey>;
22:42 evalbot_r16861 OUTPUT[pugs␤] Bool::True
22:42 bloonix arg
22:43 TimToady should have given you a better error message
22:43 bloonix s/%hash/%perl6leute/ :)
22:44 bloonix hmmm %hash{foo} and foo must be a func, but what is %perl6leute{'audrey'} ?
22:44 bloonix ''
22:44 thoughtpolice same thing
22:44 TimToady ?eval my %perl6leute = ('audrey'=>'pugs', 'leo'=>'parrot', 'damian'=>"larry's evil henchman"); say %perl6leute{'audrey'};
22:44 evalbot_r16861 OUTPUT[pugs␤] Bool::True
22:44 bloonix seems its the same like %perl6leute<>
22:45 TimToady what version are you running?
22:45 bloonix but why? "" tries to eval it and '' not ?
22:46 bloonix Version: 6.2.13 (r16712)
22:46 TimToady ?eval my %perl6leute = ('audrey'=>'pugs', 'leo'=>'parrot', 'damian'=>"larry's evil henchman"); say %perl6leute{"audrey"};
22:46 evalbot_r16861 OUTPUT[pugs␤] Bool::True
22:46 TimToady ?eval my %perl6leute = ('audrey'=>'pugs', 'leo'=>'parrot', 'damian'=>"larry's evil henchman"); say %perl6leute<>;
22:46 evalbot_r16861 OUTPUT[audreypugsdamianlarry's evil henchmanleoparrot␤] Bool::True
22:46 TimToady that's taking it as equivalent to:
22:46 TimToady ?eval my %perl6leute = ('audrey'=>'pugs', 'leo'=>'parrot', 'damian'=>"larry's evil henchman"); say %perl6leute{};
22:47 evalbot_r16861 OUTPUT[audreypugsdamianlarry's evil henchmanleoparrot␤] Bool::True
22:47 TimToady the <> is not an empty string, but an empty list
22:47 TimToady just as <foo bar> is a list of two elements
22:47 TimToady ?eval my %perl6leute = ('audrey'=>'pugs', 'leo'=>'parrot', 'damian'=>"larry's evil henchman"); say %perl6leute<audrey leo>;
22:47 evalbot_r16861 OUTPUT[pugsparrot␤] Bool::True
22:47 thoughtpolice <> is analogous to p5's qw() form; it creates a list where the token delimiter is whitespace
22:47 bloonix ah
22:48 TimToady but it works both standalone and as a hash subscript
22:48 thoughtpolice yeah.
22:48 TimToady and as an arg to adverbs
22:48 TimToady ?eval say :foo<bar baz>
22:48 evalbot_r16861 Error: Named argument found where no matched parameter expected: ("foo",Syn "," [Val (VStr "bar"),Val (VStr "baz")])
22:49 weinig_ joined #perl6
22:49 bloonix but I dont understand the difference between %h{'foo'} and %h{foo}
22:49 TimToady ?eval :foo<bar baz>.say
22:49 evalbot_r16861 OUTPUT[foobar baz␤] Bool::True
22:49 thoughtpolice %h{foo} is treated as though foo is an actual subroutine; it's returning value is what's used as the key to find your element
22:49 TimToady one has a string arg, and the other has something that cannot be a string
22:49 bloonix okay
22:49 TimToady there is not longer any special quoting rule about barewords inside {}
22:50 TimToady yet another simplification
22:50 Creolamn joined #perl6
22:50 angel_4you joined #perl6
22:50 breadman joined #perl6
22:50 strangedo joined #perl6
22:50 bloonix like the p5 $p{'foo'} and $p{&foo}
22:50 thoughtpolice again?
22:50 thoughtpolice losers.
22:51 thoughtpolice irc.perl.org's been being hit by the same botnet hasn't it?
22:52 TimToady bloonix: sorry if you couldn't post there for a bit
22:52 bloonix no problem, not your false
22:53 avar oh goddamnit
22:53 avar TimToady++
22:53 avar lamers--
22:53 bloonix what I said was that %h{foo} is equivalent to $h{&foo} and %h{'foo'} to $h{foo}
22:53 theorb joined #perl6
22:53 bloonix p6 <-> p5
22:54 avar and %h<foo> to %h{'foo'}
22:54 TimToady well, equiv to foo(), since &foo means something weird in p5
22:54 TimToady &foo in p6 is always just the sub object and doesn't call it
22:55 TimToady you'd have to say &foo() to call it in p6
22:58 bloonix what is the equivalent to ref() in p6 ?
22:58 TimToady $x.WHAT
22:58 TimToady ?eval 42.WHAT
22:58 evalbot_r16861 ::Int
22:59 TimToady ?eval WHAT(42)
22:59 evalbot_r16861 ::Int
22:59 TimToady if you like the function look
22:59 TimToady ?eval 42.WHICH
22:59 evalbot_r16861 42
22:59 TimToady (values are their own identity...)
23:00 TimToady ?eval my %array; say %array.WHICH
23:00 evalbot_r16861 OUTPUT[␤] Bool::True
23:00 TimToady hmm, unimplemented, seems
23:00 bloonix ?eval say {}.WHAT
23:00 evalbot_r16861 OUTPUT[␤] ::Bool
23:01 TimToady is apparently returning the value for non-values too :(
23:01 bloonix say {foo=>'bar'}.WHAT;
23:01 TimToady ?eval { 42 }.WHAT
23:01 evalbot_r16861 ::Block
23:01 bloonix ?eval say {foo=>'bar'}.WHAT;
23:01 TimToady ?eval { 42 }.WHICH
23:01 evalbot_r16861 OUTPUT[foobar␤␤] ::Bool
23:01 evalbot_r16861 {Syn "block" {42}}
23:01 bloonix hmmm
23:01 TimToady ?eval { 42 }.HOW
23:01 evalbot_r16861 \Class.new(("is" => ("Code",)), ("name" => "Block"))
23:02 TimToady not all the metadata is hooked in yet in its final form
23:03 bloonix $z is a hash ref if I do "my %x = (foo=>'bar'); my $y := %x;" ?
23:04 TimToady well, no, but $y is.  :)
23:04 thoughtpolice TimToady: you wouldn't happen to know if the circumfix category for defining your own operators is working fully, would you? in all the instances I've tried to use it, the multi-sub declaration has gone fine, however, actually attempting to use it has failed in every instance I've tried
23:04 bloonix ?eval my %x = (foo=>'bar'); my $y := %x; say $y.WHAT
23:04 evalbot_r16861 OUTPUT[Hash␤] Bool::True
23:04 bloonix oops, of course TimToady :)
23:04 bloonix to many x y z today :)
23:04 TimToady probably not; it'll start working as soon as we can swap in STD.pm for the parser
23:05 bloonix is there a equivalent to strict and warnings in p6 that I can use?
23:05 TimToady it's the default for anything longer than a one-liner
23:05 dduncan yay
23:06 TimToady I think evalbot has strict turned off these days.
23:06 TimToady ?eval $foo
23:06 evalbot_r16861 \undef
23:06 TimToady that used to complain about undefined
23:06 TimToady ?eval use strict; $foo
23:06 evalbot_r16861 Error: *** Unsafe function 'use' called under safe mode␤    at -e line 16, column 7-63
23:06 TimToady heh
23:07 dduncan unfortunately, that presents problems ...
23:07 dduncan when trying to reproduce an error in pugs, because evalbot behaves differently
23:07 TimToady anyway, put a bare $foo into a file and run it, and you should get an error
23:07 thoughtpolice TimToady: ah. at least fun can be had with infix/postfix/prefix. I assume the same can be said about postcircumfix?
23:07 TimToady or just from the command-line interface
23:07 dduncan how do you turn strict on for evalbot oneliners, so we can get consistent behaviour
23:07 TimToady it appears to be strict by default
23:08 dduncan with the command line
23:08 bloonix TimToady: right. it occurs an error. fine
23:09 TimToady ?eval module Foo; $foo
23:09 evalbot_r16861 \undef
23:09 TimToady ?eval use v6; $foo
23:09 evalbot_r16861 \undef
23:10 TimToady that *should* turn strict on, I think...
23:11 bloonix $pair = :key('value'); <--- only one pair?
23:11 bloonix $x = :foo('bar'), :baz('foobar'); dont works :)
23:12 TimToady yes, that's a scalar assignment, so doesn't get past the comma
23:12 TimToady ?eval @x = :foo('bar'), :baz('foobar');
23:12 evalbot_r16861 [("foo" => "bar"), ("baz" => "foobar")]
23:12 TimToady works better with list assignment
23:13 Limbic_Region TimToady - have you seen the dive into Perl 6 series of blogs?
23:13 TimToady some
23:13 bloonix how can I access bar?
23:13 bloonix say $x.foo dont run
23:13 bloonix arg
23:13 Limbic_Region what is the term given to the end of epoch when 32 bit systems blow up?
23:13 TimToady ?eval @x = :foo('bar'), :baz('foobar'); @x[0].value
23:13 evalbot_r16861 \"bar"
23:14 bloonix ah okay
23:14 TimToady It's the End of the World as We Know It, and I Feel Fine...
23:14 bloonix I need a hand full sleep. it was a long day and my first p6 code
23:14 Limbic_Region hrm, I am looking for a shortcut
23:15 TimToady congrats for making it this far
23:15 TimToady 2038?
23:15 Limbic_Region while I enjoy your singing, I would like a 1 word term ;-)
23:16 bloonix good night people and thanks for your suggestions
23:16 Limbic_Region 2038 works for me
23:16 Limbic_Region thanks
23:21 TimToady Limbic_Region: actually 2038 is when it overflows 31 bits
23:21 weinig_ changed the nick to weinig
23:24 TimToady you get another 68 years before it overflows 32 bits
23:25 TimToady well, okay, 68 years and 18 days and 03 hours and 14 minutes and 8 seconds
23:26 rashakil joined #perl6
23:27 TimToady so 2106
23:28 polettix joined #perl6
23:30 TimToady but it's signed on most Unix/Linux, so most people recognize 2038
23:35 thorat joined #perl6
23:40 diakopter_afk changed the nick to diakopter
23:57 * thoughtpolice yawns
23:57 thoughtpolice this dependecy database creation is probably going to take a while

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