Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2007-07-11

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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01:07 pugs_svnbot r16967 | lwall++ | trunk:
01:07 pugs_svnbot : [Std] use spiffy new infix matchers for regex parsing.
01:07 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/16967
01:07 lambdabot Title: Changeset 16967 - Pugs - Trac
01:09 miyagawa joined #perl6
01:09 pasteling "evalbot_r16966" at 193.200.132.135 pasted "Pugs build failure" (6 lines, 278B) at http://sial.org/pbot/26194
01:15 weinig joined #perl6
01:15 pugs_svnbot r16968 | lwall++ | trunk:
01:15 pugs_svnbot : [STD] and also parse the new forms, duh...
01:15 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/16968
01:15 lambdabot Title: Changeset 16968 - Pugs - Trac
01:18 diakopter TimToady: I dunno if you got my @message[0] from a few days after yapc (b/c lambdabot was being attacked) - but I thought I'd remind you about the .keys method on an enum array
01:18 diakopter which someone asked about during your/damian's talk
01:22 TimToady ah, right
01:26 Alias_ joined #perl6
01:42 devbot6 planet6: Dive Into Perl 6: Operating with operators <http://diveintoperl6.blogspot.com/20​07/07/operating-with-operators.html>
01:42 lambdabot http://diveintoperl6.blogspot.com/20​07/07/operating-with-operators.html>
01:44 diakopter lambdabot: nice.
01:45 thoughtpolice lambdabot failing? impossible
01:45 Aankhen`` LOL.
01:45 Aankhen`` thoughtpolice++
01:46 thoughtpolice :>
01:48 willy_nelson changed the nick to snafu
01:48 thoughtpolice i had no idea this channel had a bot for planet6
01:49 thoughtpolice you learn something new all the time
01:49 snafu changed the nick to willy_nelson
01:49 willy_nelson changed the nick to snafu
01:49 Aankhen`` thoughtpolice: Only if you keep an open mind. ;-)
01:50 Aankhen`` thoughtpolice: Do you read XKCD?
01:50 snafu changed the nick to willy_nelson
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01:50 Aankhen`` thoughtpolice: By the way, your HTML encoding seems to have gone wild on the first code snippet. I see this: (1 &amp;amp;amp;amp;amp; 2 & 3 & 4 & 5)
01:51 thoughtpolice Aankhen``: sometimes. i don't browse web comics as much as I'd like to these days (8-bit theatre was my favorite)
01:52 thoughtpolice Aankhen``: thanks. so far my experiances with blogger have proven to be notorious in terms of putting things like code in your posts. :/
01:52 Aankhen`` :-\
01:52 thoughtpolice namely, the compose mode seems to be the issue
01:52 Aankhen`` See http://www.xkcd.com/c242.html if you haven't already.
01:52 lambdabot Title: xkcd - A webcomic of romance, sarcasm, math, and language - By Randall Munroe
01:52 thoughtpolice it randomly likes to do things like take away line breaks
01:52 Aankhen`` Ouch.
01:53 thoughtpolice yeah. not too much fun.
01:53 thoughtpolice so far the problems have proven to be fairly minor though
01:53 Aankhen`` That's why I don't have a journal or anything where I post regularly.  I don't want to use anything that's out there already, and I don't feel like writing my own. :-)
01:53 nipotaway changed the nick to nipotan
01:53 diakopter I dunno if anyone noticed, but I added a new .xslt for pugs' Subversion repo.. http://svn.pugscode.org/pugs/ and so on
01:54 Aankhen`` .xslt?
01:54 diakopter stands for...
01:54 Aankhen`` Oh, whoa, I didn't realize it was an XML file.
01:54 Aankhen`` That looks really nice!
01:54 diakopter purl: xslt?
01:54 diakopter buubot: xslt?
01:54 Aankhen`` Yes, I know what XSLT is.  I just wasn't sure how it applied to the SVN repository. :-)
01:54 diakopter buu: xslt?
01:54 diakopter :)
01:54 diakopter I figured...
01:54 Aankhen`` I like it.
01:55 diakopter now to modify it to link back to trac and/or SVN::Web's versions of the same
01:55 Aankhen`` I'm not sure the border-bottom on hover is a good idea, though.
01:56 Aankhen`` IMO, it would look nicer with alternating background colours and/or a separate background colour on hover.
01:56 thoughtpolice Aankhen``++ # fixed html-dumbness
01:56 Aankhen`` ^_^
01:57 thoughtpolice diakopter: looks nice.
01:58 Aankhen`` diakopter: Another thing that might be nice is to put `display: block` on the directories/folders.
01:58 Aankhen`` That is, put `display: block;` on the `a` elements surrounding them.
01:58 Aankhen`` (And anything else surrounding the `a` element that might need to be a block element too in order to accommodate it.)
01:59 * Aankhen`` sighs.
01:59 Aankhen`` Checking out Pugs takes a while. :-)
01:59 Aankhen`` I think it's been about ten minutes so far.
01:59 [particle2 changed the nick to [particle]
02:00 Aankhen`` I'm about to check the Synopses, but in case anyone knows the answer: are `if` and `else` expressions or statements?
02:02 Aankhen`` I think this was mentioned recently in here, but I can't remember what the answer was.
02:02 Aankhen`` Though I have a sneaking suspicion that it was along the lines of "they're still statements because otherwise it would cause confusion with the statement modifiers".
02:04 Aankhen`` Hum.  I guess they're statements.
02:04 Aankhen`` Yay, Pugs still being checked out.
02:08 agentzh joined #perl6
02:09 daxim I just released my first module.  high 5!  (or 6)
02:09 Aankhen`` Congrats!
02:10 Alias_ Welcome to CPAN daxim
02:11 daxim I used the pause id already longer, for bug reports on RT
02:11 Alias_ Doesn't count :)
02:11 daxim ah well :)
02:12 Alias_ Submitting to RT just makes you a rabble rouser :)
02:13 Aankhen`` Rouse the rabble!
02:15 Aankhen`` Jeez.  `svn co` still in progress.
02:15 fglock joined #perl6
02:15 Aankhen`` Further updates as we receive information.
02:17 diakopter Aankhen``: hrm
02:20 Aankhen`` Ot
02:20 Aankhen`` It's probably something to do with my laptop.
02:20 Aankhen`` Vista appears to be a major resource hog.
02:22 diakopter Aankhen``: are you checking out via svk or svn?  and using https or not?
02:22 Aankhen`` SVN, http.
02:23 diakopter I just started a fresh checkout; we'll see who wins :D
02:23 Aankhen`` CURSE YOU
02:23 [particle] vista ain't half bad with four cpus :)
02:24 Aankhen`` [particle]: Laptop with single dual-core CPU and Vista = not so hot.
02:24 Aankhen`` Wait, that's incorrect.
02:24 Aankhen`` It's actually = a little too hot.
02:25 diakopter Aankhen``: finished
02:25 Aankhen`` It's interesting to note that probably my favourite part of Vista is the set of new fonts.
02:25 Aankhen`` diakopter: Still going. :-(
02:26 Aankhen`` Consolas is a fantastic fixed-width font (being used in the logs, for reference), and Cambria is a beautiful serif font.
02:26 Aankhen`` Firefox + Stylish = Wikipedia using Cambria = lovely.
02:26 thoughtpolice oi
02:26 diakopter Aankhen``: disable indexing for pugs/../ and below... then add an exception for your antivirus for pugs/../ and below... then add an exception for Windows Defender for svn
02:27 thoughtpolice looks like I'm going to have to compile erlang from a tarball. :( darn you pkgsrc!
02:27 Aankhen`` diakopter: Aha, it's probably the indexing.
02:27 Aankhen`` Thanks for reminding me.
02:28 diakopter Consolas in iTerm looks great on the mac.  if only iTerm's 'use option/alt as "Meta"' actually worked when using UTF-8.
02:29 Aankhen`` diakopter: Would you happen to know how to disable indexing for a particular folder?
02:29 Aankhen`` I can't seem to find anything in either the Indexing Options or the folder options.
02:29 diakopter folder properties...
02:30 diakopter check apply to all children
02:30 Aankhen`` Oooh, right, it's in the "Advanced" file attributes.
02:31 diakopter I didn't pass 12 MS cert tests for nothing... <orly?>
02:31 Aankhen`` Twelve MS cert tests?!
02:31 Aankhen`` ...why?
02:32 [particle] technologies expire.
02:32 diakopter why not!? they're only $125/pop!
02:32 Aankhen`` Yes, but why start?
02:32 diakopter heh
02:32 diakopter this was eons ago
02:32 diakopter er, epochs ago
02:36 diakopter TimToady: any ideas for the enumArray.keys?
02:37 Aankhen`` Uh, weird.
02:37 Aankhen`` pugs_svnbot: REPORT request failed on '/pugs/!svn/vcc/default'
02:37 Aankhen`` pugs_svnbot: REPORT of '/pugs/!svn/vcc/default': 200 OK (http://svn.pugscode.org)
02:37 Aankhen`` ,69A    pugs\misc\old_pugs_perl5_backen​d\Perl6-MetaModel\t\19_CLASS.t
02:37 Aankhen`` ,69svn: REPORT request failed on '/pugs/!svn/vcc/default'
02:37 Aankhen`` ,69svn: REPORT of '/pugs/!svn/vcc/default': 200 OK (http://svn.pugscode.org)
02:37 Aankhen`` What the heck?
02:37 Aankhen`` CRAZY IRC CLIENT
02:37 Aankhen`` Sorry for the spam.
02:39 * diakopter cleanses the logs... (j/k)
02:39 Aankhen`` Hehe.
02:40 diakopter hrm
02:40 diakopter I had a similar error to that a few days ago.
02:42 diakopter re: *..0     # -infinity to 0
02:42 diakopter how does one represent -infinity to 10?  *..0..10 ?
02:44 SubStack joined #perl6
02:49 [particle] -Inf..10 i suspect
02:49 diakopter oh
02:49 Aankhen`` I totally knew that.
02:50 Aankhen`` Like, totally.
02:50 Aankhen`` (Still running `svn co`, BTW.)
02:50 Aankhen`` I think it's been an hour.
02:50 Limbic_Region salutations all
02:50 Aankhen`` Greetings, o ye of the region limbic.
02:52 diakopter I guess x..y..z isn't implemented in pugs. but is it specified?
02:53 [particle] i don't think so. a Range is *..*
02:54 [particle] x..y..z is ERETARDO # twisting a phrase from MJD
02:55 Aankhen`` *..* :by(1/Inf)
02:55 diakopter someone's supposed to tell me that x..y..z simplifies to x..z ;)
02:55 [particle] only timtoady can tell you that, and that he hasn't put it in the spec yet :)
02:55 Aankhen`` No.  We're not your nannies!
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03:01 * Limbic_Region calls it a night
03:07 * diakopter calls it a spade
03:08 * Aankhen`` calls it a wuss.
03:09 * Alias_ calls Aankhen`` a wuss.
03:09 * Aankhen`` cries.
03:14 avar hush now baby baby don't you cry
03:20 spinclad momma gonna sing you a lullaby
03:20 spinclad ... and if that rocking horse get broke
03:20 spinclad momma gonna call it a night
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03:45 diakopter Perl for Proles
03:45 * Aankhen`` stabbity stabs avar.
03:46 avar urgh?
03:46 Aankhen`` I was hoping for something more along the lines of "[sound of dying]".
03:47 * diakopter sounds like 'urgh' when dying
03:47 Aankhen`` If that holds true for avar too, then I retract my previous statement.
03:47 * avar stabs diakopter to verify
03:48 * diakopter urghs
03:48 * diakopter dies
03:48 * avar makes a note
03:51 diakopter question for anyone who's awake: what CMS, web app platform, wiki (ugh), blogroll, or everything-ish[, or no] software should run on perlsix.com,org,net?  and what content should go in it (if any)?
03:53 * spinclad doesn't know except let it run in Perl 6 someday
03:53 spinclad (helpful, i know)
03:55 Patterner TWiki, what else? :)
03:59 * diakopter points them to feather for now
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04:29 thoughtpolice diakopter: what'll the site's purpose serve? analogous to perl.org, or is a perl6 'official site' just kind of a rough sketch right now?
04:30 diakopter thoughtpolice: that's my question
04:32 thoughtpolice diakopter: hm. i dunno, a wiki would be a viable solution (dokuwiki?)
04:32 thoughtpolice there's also things like plone if you're into that kind of stuff
04:33 diakopter I think the question of "official implementation" is open to debate.  I think the question of "official distribution" [incl libraries] of any successful-testsuite-smoking implementation is open to debate.  
04:34 diakopter therefore, "official site" will by definition be a misnomer
04:35 thoughtpolice fair enough. how's about "center of the universe"? :>
04:39 REPLeffect joined #perl6
04:44 diakopter It seems to me that [one of ]TimToady's goal[s] for Perl_6_The_Language has been for it to be descriptive over decretive.  Not only is there more than one way to do it, there's now *every* [known ]way to do it.
04:46 TimToady There's Not Many Ways Not To Do It!
04:47 diakopter Once a single implementation definitively smokes the test suite, Perl_6_The_Implementation will only exist until someone adds their own libs to the distribution and redistributes it.  Then, there will be many Perl_6_An_Implementation/Distribution.
04:47 bingoxXx joined #perl6
04:48 TimToady works for linux...
04:48 bingoxXx Hi can anybody help me with this? Can't locate Parse/RecDescent.pm in @INC
04:48 bingoxXx I have already installed the required rpms
04:48 diakopter Look harder in @INC?
04:48 bingoxXx how to do that?
04:48 bingoxXx I'm a newbie..
04:49 diakopter what program is erroring that?
04:49 TimToady .oO(why would perl 6 need Parse::RecDescent?)
04:50 bingoxXx thats a demo program for parsing
04:51 amnesiac but why on Perl6?
04:51 bingoxXx Its actually perl 5.8.8
04:51 monomorph joined #perl6
04:51 amnesiac and why are you looking for that in a perl6 channel?
04:51 amnesiac try out #perl
04:52 diakopter that's T-Christmas too early of a version
04:52 TimToady ah, this is #perl6, so we were naturally a bit confused...
04:52 bingoxXx ok.. but berfore leaving can somebosy tell me how perl6 is different?
04:52 amnesiac TimToady, TheDamian should port that to p6!
04:52 agentzh bingoxXx: Parse::RecDescent is cool, but I think you may want to take a look at Pugs::Compiler::Rule :)
04:53 TimToady bingoxXx: Perl 6 regexes are rather more powerful than P::R
04:53 agentzh bingoxXx: which is a Perl 6 regex engine written for Perl 5 developers.
04:53 * diakopter leaves as a conifer after someone else explains
04:53 id_sonic joined #perl6
04:53 bingoxXx agentzh: does Pugs comes built in?
04:53 agentzh bingoxXx: hmm?
04:53 diakopter but wait, there's more! Pugses in the trunk!
04:54 bingoxXx or I have to look for the required rpms?
04:54 * agentzh has no idea what the built-in means in this context.
04:54 TimToady perl 6 is still in development
04:54 TimToady you're unlikely to find an rpm for it
04:54 TimToady w
04:54 agentzh bingoxXx: See http://search.cpan.org/perl​doc?Pugs::Compiler::Grammar
04:54 id_sonic hi, I want to subscribe perl6-compiler-subscribe@perl.org, but I can not.
04:54 bingoxXx ok, thanks a lot guys
04:54 lambdabot Title: Pugs::Compiler::Grammar - Compiler for Perl 6 Grammars - search.cpan.org
04:54 buetow joined #perl6
04:54 TimToady we're not very practical here...
04:54 id_sonic I have sent two mails..
04:55 diakopter id_sonic: what makes you think you cannot?
04:55 TimToady the last message to that mailing list was June 22
04:55 id_sonic diakopter: I don't know.
04:55 agentzh bingoxXx: p6 regex may look a bit more verbose than P::RD, but the match object is really handy.
04:56 TimToady perl6-language has more traffic, as does perl6-internals
04:56 TimToady most of the pugs development happens here though
04:56 diakopter id_sonic: did those two emails bounce back to you?
04:57 agentzh .oO( Pugs::Compiler::Grammar is very P::RD-ish ;) )
05:00 * diakopter guesses that the subscribe confirmation emails got caught in id_sonic's spam filter, or vice versa
05:00 id_sonic TimToady: all of them not bounce back me.
05:02 agentzh heh, bingoxXx may think 5.8.8 is very "close" to 6.0.0 :)
05:02 id_sonic I'll try again, dinner time, see you, bye.
05:06 diakopter it would be, except in our diradic numeropathy, the inner base is uncountable.
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05:25 diakopter anyone here attending oscon this year?
05:25 diakopter oh, and, is there a SotO talk?
05:30 diakopter me: "what does Perl stand for?"   my wife the med student: "pupils equal, round, reactive to light"
05:37 Aankhen`` joined #perl6
05:40 dduncan diakopter, I'd luv to, but can't afford it this year
05:44 cernd joined #perl6
05:51 Alias_ heh
05:51 Alias_ diakopter, it's also a singaporean/malaysian instance coffee targetted at women
05:51 Alias_ instant
05:52 diakopter pBracketing characters are defined as any Unicode characters with either bidirectional mirrorings...q
05:53 diakopter oh, bidirectional.
05:53 diakopter got it.
05:54 diakopter mmm instance coffee
05:59 Aankhen`` joined #perl6
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06:19 hakobe changed the nick to hkb_lab
06:20 moritz re
06:22 diakopter reyo
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06:48 diakopter TimToady: what's the argument against making subs implicitly multi?
06:48 moritz diakopter: I think it makes it harder to detect accidential redefinition of a sub
06:51 diakopter well hopefully it couldn't be *too* accidental, I mean, if the signatures are identical, the compiler can squawk...?
06:53 diakopter are you imagining accidental redefinition via accidental reuse of a sub's name for another purpose, or accidental reimplementation of the same sub?
06:53 moritz yes ;)
06:53 moritz both, actually
06:54 Aankhen`` moritz: Hi.
06:55 moritz hi Aankhen`` ;)
06:55 Aankhen`` moritz: Would it be a problem to use HTML::CalendarMonth instead of HTML::Calendar::Simple in index.pl?
06:55 diakopter ok, the latter is detectable as I said above (and seems to me, the compiler must die b/c it doesn't know which to run), but the former is just plain not detectable, but seems to me that is extremely rare.
06:55 moritz Aankhen``: I think I tried it, and it doesn't produce valid xhtml :(
06:55 Alias_ joined #perl6
06:55 thoughtpolice hey moritz
06:55 Aankhen`` moritz: Hmm, I didn't realize.
06:56 moritz hey thoughtpolice ;)
06:56 * Aankhen`` apathetically shakes a fist at people who don't validate.
06:56 moritz Aankhen``: wait, I tried HTML::CalendarMonthSimple
06:56 Aankhen`` moritz: I checked ::CalendarMonth, it doesn't seem to produce valid HTML either.
06:58 moritz Aankhen``: why do you want to get away from the current solution? not enough class="..." tags? *g*
06:58 Aankhen`` Hehe.
06:58 REPLeffect joined #perl6
06:59 Aankhen`` ::CalendarMonth seemed to have a few useful tricks at first glance, but on closer inspection it isn't all that great.
06:59 moritz thoughtpolice++ # yet another cool diveintoperl6 post
07:01 thoughtpolice moritz: ty. :)
07:02 diakopter @tell TimToady in fact, all built-in methods and operators need to be multi, since they are all extensible...  so why not make everything implicitly multi?  How about a negator for that flag, instead: 'lone' or 'solo' or 'only' or 'single'.  Backlog to here for further context/discussion.
07:02 lambdabot Consider it noted.
07:03 Aankhen`` HTML-- # it just sucks, okay?
07:03 thoughtpolice agreed
07:03 thoughtpolice @karma html
07:03 lambdabot html has a karma of 0
07:03 thoughtpolice appropriate. :)
07:03 Aankhen`` HTML-- # needs more negative karma
07:03 Aankhen`` @karma html
07:03 lambdabot html has a karma of 0
07:04 Aankhen`` @karma HTML
07:04 lambdabot HTML has a karma of -2
07:04 diakopter markup--  escaping--
07:04 thoughtpolice internets--
07:04 Aankhen`` diakopter: Those aren't what I have a problem with.
07:04 Aankhen`` I hate the futility of "semantic HTML".
07:04 * Aankhen`` checks himself in mid-rant and goes off to watch some cartoons.
07:05 Aankhen`` s/ in//
07:05 moritz Aankhen``: at least xhtml2 will have semantic navigation lists
07:05 moritz Aankhen``: and a href= attribute for every tag
07:05 diakopter Aankhen``: okay, but if you look for futility, you will endlessly find it to be endless.
07:09 diakopter Aankhen``: however, I get eye-roll-y at semantic html insisters.
07:10 moritz I use semantic HTML as long as it's pragmatic as well
07:10 moritz but I don't mind using a few <div>s solely for layout purposes
07:11 diakopter er, I once did, back when I was making browser apps
07:11 diakopter I once [got eye-roll-], I mean
07:12 franck__ joined #perl6
07:17 thoughtpolice @karma thoughtpolice
07:17 lambdabot You have a karma of 4
07:17 thoughtpolice nice
07:17 thoughtpolice in any case, sleep. night all.
07:17 diakopter l8r thoughtpolice
07:17 * thoughtpolice --status=sleepings
07:17 thoughtpolice later diakopter
07:17 moritz sleep well ;)
07:18 diakopter thoughtpolice++
07:18 moritz it's 9am here ;)
07:18 thoughtpolice moritz: 2am here
07:18 thoughtpolice :)
07:18 diakopter it's 2:17am here
07:18 thoughtpolice me and diakopter live in the same time zone as each other. we should hang out, we have so much in common.
07:18 thoughtpolice okay, really though. sleeeep.
07:25 diakopter heh
07:26 diakopter I grew up in TX.  assuming I'm actually "grown up".
07:26 moritz can somebody tell me what '黄望秋' means?
07:27 * diakopter sees three question marks
07:27 moritz diakopter: then you have broken utf-8 support or missing fonts ;)
07:28 zamolxes joined #perl6
07:28 diakopter yeah...
07:28 moritz probably the latter
07:28 diakopter no
07:29 moritz you can look into the web irc logs, there it's correct utf-8 in any case
07:29 diakopter i know; thanks :)
07:32 moritz anyway, I have no idea what these three graphs mean, I just came across them in my apache log files, somebody searched for this string and found my site ;)
07:32 moritz so now I'm curious
07:33 theorb joined #perl6
07:34 agentzh moritz: 黄望秋 seems to a person's name :)
07:34 pugs_svnbot r16969 | moritz++ | trunk:
07:34 pugs_svnbot : [perlhint]
07:34 pugs_svnbot :  * renamed P6Explain to perlhint
07:34 pugs_svnbot :  * added more data
07:34 pugs_svnbot :  * added a small p5 parser
07:34 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/16969
07:34 lambdabot Title: Changeset 16969 - Pugs - Trac
07:34 moritz agentzh: ok, thanks
07:34 agentzh moritz: a Chinese person, it seems.
07:35 agentzh moritz: you're welcome :)
07:35 moritz then it was probably mentioned somewhere in the logs, or google just went beserk for no reason ;)
07:35 agentzh interesting
07:37 agentzh heh, google returns a lot of results while searching 黄望秋 ;)
07:37 agentzh @google 黄望秋
07:37 lambdabot http://news.sina.com.cn/c/216698.html
07:37 lambdabot Title: �ڱ���������ͯ���ﷸ������һ�����д�����
07:37 agentzh Oh, this page is in GB2312
07:38 moritz and it will totally break the logs again ;)
07:38 agentzh *nod*
07:39 pasteling "evalbot_r16968" at 193.200.132.135 pasted "Pugs build failure" (6 lines, 278B) at http://sial.org/pbot/26198
07:39 agentzh moritz: btw, occasionally audreyt may paste some Big5 chars here ;)
07:39 agentzh which is the encoding used in .tw
07:40 weinig joined #perl6
07:41 moritz agentzh: what I could do is to dump some of the database and build testcases with that data...
07:41 agentzh moritz: that's a great idea!
07:41 agentzh what i need is just the raw data :)
07:42 agentzh but anyway, have to go back to $work now ;) later &
07:42 weinig joined #perl6
07:42 moritz @tell agentzh http://moritz.faui2k3.org/tmp/irclog.sql.bz2 should contain all you need
07:42 lambdabot Consider it noted.
07:43 weinig joined #perl6
07:54 diakopter Alias_: ping
07:55 c9s joined #perl6
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07:58 Alias_ pong
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08:05 diakopter Alias_: what happened to freepan.org? seems to be spammed
08:05 alexe hi,all. How can i use eval to run some code in a constant?
08:07 moritz ?eval my $s = "say 'foo'"; eval $s;
08:07 evalbot_r16959 changed the nick to evalbot_r16969
08:07 evalbot_r16969 OUTPUT[foo␤] Bool::True
08:09 Alias_ freepan? what's that?
08:09 diakopter dunno, someplace there used to be an /repos/adamk dir
08:10 Alias_ there did? :)
08:10 Alias_ My repository is currently at http://svn.ali.as/cpan
08:10 lambdabot Title: Revision 1925: /
08:10 diakopter http://svn.pugscode.org/pugs/ext​/Config-Tiny/lib/Config/Tiny.pm
08:11 Alias_ P6 Config::Tiny still gives me a chuckle
08:12 Alias_ From like the third day after pugs got module support
08:12 Alias_ Audrey wanted some example modules that were small and self-contained, cause you could to "use" yet
08:12 Alias_ So I just pasted them into the repository and forgot all about it
08:14 diakopter har
08:29 pugs_svnbot r16970 | Darren_Duncan++ | trunk:
08:29 pugs_svnbot : ext/Muldis-DB/ : updated mainly Core.pod to flesh out nonscalar type descs and add an initial complement of global, boolean, integer, and type-convert operators
08:29 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/16970
08:29 lambdabot Title: Changeset 16970 - Pugs - Trac
08:36 beppu Does pugs support coroutines like the Coro module?  http://search.cpan.org/dist/Coro/
08:36 lambdabot Title: Marc Lehmann / Coro - search.cpan.org
08:37 beppu If so, does it have an asynchronous socket implementation like Coro::Socket?
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09:07 masak moritz: I just want to say I like your idea with the p6 syntax explainer
09:08 masak marking up Perl-6.0.0-STD.pm sounds like a double win to me
09:24 Aankhen`` ?eval sub foo { yield 1; yield 2; }; [ foo, foo, foo ]
09:24 evalbot_r16969 changed the nick to evalbot_r16970
09:24 evalbot_r16970 Error: cannot yield() from a routine
09:24 Aankhen`` Hmm.
09:24 masak ?eval coro foo { yield 1; yield 2; }; [ foo, foo, foo ]
09:25 evalbot_r16970 [1, 2, 1]
09:25 Aankhen`` Oh.
09:25 Aankhen`` Let's pretend I said that in the first place. :-P
09:25 masak :)
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09:25 masak glad to help
09:26 moritz masak: good to know
09:27 masak moritz: further, I doubt showing docs for user-added ops will be very easy to implement
09:27 masak it would be way cool, but consider it a 'version 2.0' item
09:29 moritz masak: aye. I think I'll assemble a bit of test data manually, and take care of of displaying it nicely...
09:30 moritz masak: and then I can start thinking of different data source
09:30 masak moritz++ # sounds good
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10:01 Juerd I think the ** change is great.
10:03 Juerd Does, outside regexes, @foo ** '|' now do a @foo.join:'|'? :)
10:07 masak Juerd: maybe it should
10:07 masak question is what @foo ** '0' does -- both inside and outside of regexes
10:08 Juerd I was just joking. It would be very cryptic to have ** be join, with no advantage at all (that I can think of)
10:09 masak Juerd: you're probably right
10:09 Juerd Besides that, ** is typically a numeric operator, so @foo ** 5 ought to do +@foo ** 5
10:09 masak yup
10:09 masak Juerd: still, how does @foo ** '1' work in a regex?
10:09 Juerd In a regex, @foo ** anything is interesting, actually.
10:11 Juerd I think that the LHS is not special, so an array would match any of its elements
10:11 Juerd @foo ** '3' is probably @foo 3 @foo 3 @foo 3 @foo 3 @foo 3 ...
10:11 lambdabot Maybe you meant: faq ft todo yow
10:12 wolverian Juerd, btw, did you get my privmsg from a few weeks ago?
10:12 Juerd wolverian: If I did, I forgot.
10:12 masak Juerd: um. my question really was, how does 'word' ** '0' work in a regex?
10:12 Juerd masak: word [ 0 word ]*
10:12 wolverian hm. you're identified, too.
10:12 wolverian both of us are.. extra weird
10:12 Juerd wolverian: Since yesterday
10:12 wolverian oh
10:12 wolverian well, that explains it
10:13 Juerd afk  # toilet
10:16 masak Juerd: IOW, it recognizes '0' as a string, not a number
10:22 Juerd masak: I think so
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11:27 meppl good morning
11:31 masak meppl: good day to you
11:33 sci3ntist Hey guys
11:33 sci3ntist can any1 help me
11:33 sci3ntist ?
11:34 Alias_ purl, ask to ask?
11:34 sci3ntist how to share an array in perl, using threads::shared
11:34 Alias_ oh wait, wrong channel
11:34 sci3ntist isn't this channel for perl ?
11:34 sci3ntist am i wrong ?
11:35 sci3ntist Alias_ can u help me ?
11:35 Alias_ Not really, I generally don't use threads
11:36 Alias_ one issue, how big is the array?
11:36 sci3ntist not that much
11:36 sci3ntist maybe 200 elements
11:36 Alias_ http://search.cpan.org/~jdhedde​n/threads-shared-1.12/shared.pm
11:36 lambdabot Title: threads::shared - Perl extension for sharing data structures between threads - s ...
11:36 Alias_ That reads pretty straight forward to me
11:36 Alias_ Share the array by reference
11:37 moritz sci3ntist: threads are NYI in perl 6 :(
11:37 sci3ntist Hey Guys i've read that , i just got a compilation error when try to use the array
11:37 sci3ntist thats wont work with me
11:38 meppl hello masak
11:39 Juerd sci3ntist: This is a Perl 6 channel. Are you using Perl 6 or 5?
11:39 Juerd sci3ntist: Perl 6 is not ready for production use yet.
11:39 sci3ntist i'm using perl 5.8
11:39 Juerd sci3ntist: Then visit #perl instead
11:40 Juerd We're building the new Perl here :)
11:40 sci3ntist i'm in there
11:40 sci3ntist but they didnt answer me
11:40 masak ask again
11:40 Juerd Then wait and ask again :)
11:40 sci3ntist they didnt know how to solveit
11:40 Juerd sci3ntist: There'll be different "they"s another time. Try again in a few hours.
11:41 Juerd sci3ntist: Or try Perl channels on other IRC networks. Or www.perlmonks.org
11:41 sci3ntist i'll try ,anyway thanks
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13:01 kolibrie Juerd: sorry it took me so long to get my Dvorak testimonial to you - sent now
13:03 Juerd kolibrie: Thanks. You're the second to send it :(
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13:56 pasteling "evalbot_r16970" at 193.200.132.135 pasted "Pugs build failure" (6 lines, 278B) at http://sial.org/pbot/26212
13:57 pugs_svnbot r16971 | moritz++ | trunk:
13:57 pugs_svnbot : [perlhint]
13:57 pugs_svnbot :  * added Lookup.pm
13:57 pugs_svnbot :  * added tests, run with prove -Ilib5 t/*.t
13:57 pugs_svnbot :  * added more data
13:57 pugs_svnbot :  * perlhint5.pl now has very basic functionality
13:57 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/16971
13:57 lambdabot Title: Changeset 16971 - Pugs - Trac
13:59 [particle] Juerd: sent testimonial. kolibrie: thanks for the reminder!
14:04 kolibrie [particle]: :)
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15:02 beppu masak: thanks for the coro example.
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15:20 masak beppu: no problem. could I also recomment the t/ directory? it's a good read
15:22 masak moritz's logs only go back to earlier this year
15:22 masak are there older logs somewhere else?
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15:24 fglock masak: http://colabti.de/irclogger//irclogger_logs/perl6
15:24 lambdabot fglock: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
15:24 lambdabot Title: #perl6 irc log
15:24 masak fglock: thx -- those were the ones I was looking for
15:24 masak Google does not do an excellent job at turning them up
15:24 fglock np
15:25 fglock lunch &
15:27 topic for #perl6 is: http://pugscode.org/ | nopaste: http://sial.org/pbot/perl6 | ?eval [~] <m oo se> | We do Haskell, too | > reverse . show $ foldl1 (*) [1..4] | irclog: http://irc.pugscode.org/
15:27 diakopter moritz: How about a link from your logs to the colabti logs?
15:28 masak what is the relation, really, between the colabti logs and moritz's logs?
15:29 masak why are there two sets of logs?
15:29 masak (not that I mind)
15:31 mncharity
15:32 diakopter well, moritz's logs were set up (I think) because the colabti logger was down for a time
15:33 diakopter and it's become a fun project in and of itself (to tweak the output)
15:33 beppu masak: I'll take a look in t/ for more coro examples.  thank you.
15:33 mncharity @tell fglock I made some notes after you left yesterday.  Just let me know if/when you would like them.
15:33 lambdabot Consider it noted.
15:33 diakopter moritz: even better: ;) a tool to scrape/import the prior logs from colabti to yours ;)
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15:43 beppu ?eval async { 5 }
15:43 evalbot_r16970 changed the nick to evalbot_r16971
15:43 evalbot_r16971 undef
15:43 beppu ?eval async { say 5 }
15:43 evalbot_r16971 OUTPUT[5␤] undef
15:46 masak beppu: I meant syntax examples in general in t/, not just for coro
15:46 masak that's the way I learn new perl6 syntax nowadays :)
15:46 masak that, and the synopses
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16:10 pmurias hi
16:10 pmurias fglock: ping
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16:12 diakopter moritz: yet another wishlist item for your logger: a way to get/set a cookie of browser's TZ? or even javascript conversion of all the hours based on what TZ the browser reports? :)
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16:30 christel [Global Notice] Hi all, we're experiencing some routing issues at present causing some minor splittage, affected users approx. 4500. We're working to magic them back as we speak! Thank you for using freenode and have a great day!
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16:31 pmurias fglock: i'm toying around with using SDL from kp6
16:31 dactyli oO
16:31 moritz diakopter: number 1 and two are noted on my virtual TODO list, the TZ thing sounds like much work (and not very much use)
16:31 pmurias dactyli: Oo
16:32 pmurias should i implement the use Foo:from<perl5> syntax?
16:32 fglock pmurias: hi
16:32 lambdabot fglock: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them.
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16:33 fglock hmm
16:33 fglock I think this belongs to kp6
16:33 fglock mp6 is not required to support perl 5
16:33 pmurias fglock: hi
16:34 fglock mncharity: pong - I'd sure like to read your notes
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16:35 pmurias i want to add it to kp6; i'm using sdl from a script written in kp6
16:35 fglock pmurias: cool
16:35 fglock there is some special compilation magic related to 'use'
16:36 fglock since it's executed (linked) at compile-time
16:37 fglock but use-perl5 can probably do without that
16:37 fglock and it would probably execute at both compile- and run-time
16:39 pmurias what i need the from bit is emit special code to wrap the module into a kp6 object
16:39 fglock pmurias: I think the most likely way to implement it right now is to write a bridge module by hand
16:40 fglock that is, a perl5 module with a MOP-compatible api
16:40 fglock one possible way to do this,
16:40 pmurias i'll checkin what i already have
16:41 fglock is to write a kp6 module and compile it to perl5; then add your custom code to the compile code by hand
16:41 fglock s/compile/compiled code
16:41 fglock ok
16:41 pugs_svnbot r16972 | pmurias++ | trunk:
16:41 pugs_svnbot : kp6: a wrapper for perl5 modules
16:41 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/16972
16:41 lambdabot Title: Changeset 16972 - Pugs - Trac
16:42 pmurias fglock: doing it now, but having kp6 emit it is more usefull & fun
16:42 fglock looks good
16:43 fglock how about implementing eval( '...', lang:<perl5> )
16:44 fglock I think this is the specced way to mix code; another option is { use v5; ... } but I'm not sure if this is specced
16:46 fglock 6-in-6 will end up requiring a perl5 parser anyway - but it's not a priority right now
16:47 pmurias a p5 parse would be a bit difficult IMHO :)
16:47 fglock it would be fun
16:48 pmurias it would be great to have perl5 quasiquoting
16:48 pmurias added the :from<perl5> to the grammar
16:49 pmurias can i extend the ast?
16:50 pmurias and is using adding a native native method to Value classes okay or should it be _native?
16:50 fglock the places to modify are Traverse.pm and Visitor::EmitPerl5, I think
16:50 fglock not sure about 'native'
16:50 fglock hmm
16:51 fglock there should be no 'native' class, because it's not OO
16:51 fglock I think
16:52 pmurias p5landish would be more accurate
16:53 fglock yes, let's look if there is something about that in the synopsis
16:55 pmurias the low speed of mp6 allows one to think/look around a lot ;)
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16:56 fglock I think the way to go is to box the data to p6land: p5str-to-Str, p5num-toNum, ... - but this takes a lot of effort
16:57 fglock re low speed: the kp6 regex engine might be somewhat faster, but the runtime will be even slower
17:00 mncharity fglock: not really notes to read.  more "I haven't forgotten everything since yesterday".  ;)  so whenever you want comments...
17:00 fglock pmurias: I'm about to start writing the plan for kp6 phase 4 (improve the runtime) - would you like to discuss that?
17:00 fglock mncharity: sure, is now ok?
17:01 mncharity sure, one sec
17:01 pmurias fglock: sure
17:02 fglock pmurias: I think the most important target right now is to add support for multis
17:02 fglock this requires a working type system; finishing the Code, Signature, Capture classes
17:03 fglock and also Array and Hash, which are barely started
17:03 mncharity ok, I guess three main thoughts,
17:04 mncharity I like the log file system idea.  to get access to match objects during matching, you'll need something like
17:06 mncharity a match object, and a log delta, both local()ized, and when you access the match object it does a self deepcopy, and update from log, and zeroing of log.
17:06 fglock pmurias: it would be great if it would be possible to write these classes in mp6
17:06 mncharity which I think is what you said earlier?
17:06 mncharity that was first thought
17:06 fglock mncharity: one sec, I'll point you to the code
17:07 mncharity second is re blocks, third re 5.12 and rentrancy
17:08 fglock Visitor::EmitPerl5Regex line 154 - implements getting the $/ value in the current regex scope
17:08 mncharity blocks is basically "blocks are hell".  I don't see any way to do them without doing PPI (is that right?) code analysis.
17:08 mncharity looking...
17:09 fglock hm? blocks are compiled from p6 code - why PPI?
17:10 pasteling "evalbot_r16972" at 193.200.132.135 pasted "Pugs build failure" (6 lines, 278B) at http://sial.org/pbot/26219
17:10 pugs_svnbot r16973 | pmurias++ | trunk:
17:10 pugs_svnbot : kp6:
17:10 pugs_svnbot : native => p5landish
17:10 pugs_svnbot : TODO - prefix:<++> implemented
17:10 pugs_svnbot : :from<perl5> parsed & recorded in ast
17:10 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/16973
17:11 lambdabot Title: Changeset 16973 - Pugs - Trac
17:11 fglock re scope - Match::from_global_data automatically detects unmatched 'create' ops, and then return the current scope in the top of the result stack
17:12 mncharity re 154, so how do you handle writing to the Match object?
17:14 mncharity re 'blocks are compiled from p6 code', ah, that makes it simpler.  I was thinking p5 code.  but if you already have the code ast, then doing things like "return" are straightforward.
17:14 fglock it's currently a copy - the plan is to implement this either with overloading, or pointers, or ...
17:14 fglock 'return' is working :)
17:14 mncharity :)
17:15 [particle] can someone point me to where string increment is implemented?
17:16 fglock [particle]: in which Perl 6? :)
17:16 mncharity re 'implement this', right, the scheme I mentioned was an "or...".  Though it has the downside that if anyone stashes a pointer into the Match struct, it may dark-magically no longer be part of the match struct shortly thereafter. :(
17:16 [particle] any one where it's working :)
17:17 [particle] preferably an implementation where the underlying vm does not have a builtin string increment
17:17 fglock [particle]: there was a working impl in the old pugs-p5 backend; not sure where is it stored now - looking
17:19 fglock mncharity: ideally, the match changes should be recorded as ops, which is more or less what you said, I guess
17:20 fglock because this make it backtrackable
17:22 mncharity well, you could either make the match changes recorded as ops, or modify the concept so match state is a composite...  no, that won't work.
17:23 mncharity it's going to take a rather magical Match proxy to deal with code, during matching, being able to stash parts of the Match tree and modify them later.  or maybe not.  I guess it might just be a generic tree proxying problem.
17:24 fglock [particle]: in http://svn.openfoundry.org/pugs/misc/old_pugs​_perl5_backend/Perl6-Value/lib/Perl6/Value.pm there is a Perl6::Value::Str implementation of 'decrement' - you can have an idea on how to do increment
17:24 lambdabot http://tinyurl.com/2custl
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17:24 pmurias fglock: you want to implement those (Array,Hash..) classes in non-oo kp6?
17:26 fglock mncharity: the way I'm taking care of this during compilation is that all STOREs are recorded; I could use the same thing for runtime, even if it is a bit costly
17:26 [particle] fglock++
17:26 mncharity ok, third thought was re rentrancy.  is this intended to be 5.12+ only?  ie, dependent on the underlying p5 engine being reentrant?
17:26 avar you mean 5.10?
17:26 fglock pmurias: yes, if possible - because it's good for portability
17:26 mncharity re 5.10, um, whatever was in blead a month or few ago.
17:27 fglock mncharity: it seems to work right now; the prototype implements a recursive call;
17:27 fglock I wonder if it works because I'm using regex-eval, which is not really eval'ing the same code, but compiling new code
17:28 fglock works in 5.8
17:28 mncharity prior to 5.mumble, if an regexp has a code block which tries to use a regexp, that second regexp doesn't work.
17:29 mncharity it doesn't matter what the regexp's were, simply that call stack hits two of them.
17:31 mncharity rephrased, for clarity, prior to the p5 regexp being modified to be rentrant, if your call stack has two regexp calls, the second one isn't working.  Hmm, I don't recall at the moment whether the first one gets smashed too.  I think not, but I'm fuzzy.
17:31 pugs_svnbot r16974 | pmurias++ | trunk:
17:31 pugs_svnbot : kp6:
17:31 pugs_svnbot : emiter recognises "use" of perl5 modules
17:31 pugs_svnbot : a basic sdl example works!
17:31 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/16974
17:31 lambdabot Title: Changeset 16974 - Pugs - Trac
17:31 fglock see http://svn.pugscode.org/pugs/v6/v6-KindaPe​rl6/temp/backtracking-recursive-subrule.pl line 272; works under 5.8
17:31 lambdabot http://tinyurl.com/29lv29
17:31 fglock well, it seems to work :)
17:32 mncharity very doesn't.  :)  looking...
17:32 fglock it's tested at line #348
17:33 [particle] pmurias: that's the use syntax now... trailing :from<foo> without whitespace?
17:35 mncharity re 272, that's just inlining a regexp into a regexp.  that works, though obviously if the regex is self recursive, that has problems.  but if instead of eval(), that said  eval() if "a" =~ /a/   (to use a trivial example of the code block _itself trying to use a regex_), then it wouldnt work.
17:36 fglock pmurias++
17:36 pmurias [particle]:S11
17:37 [particle] pmurias: just found it, thanks. and nice work! pmurias++
17:37 [particle] ah, there's a syntax bug in the spec
17:37 pmurias fglock: how/where should Wrap.pm be named/placed?
17:38 mncharity let's see, what's the underlying issue...
17:38 fglock mncharity: yes, that may be a problem - I need to test it
17:38 fglock pmurias: probably under Runtime/Perl5/ ?
17:42 [particle] @tell TimToady S11:379 s/ver/:ver/
17:42 fglock pmurias: that's worth a blog :)
17:42 lambdabot Consider it noted.
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17:42 mncharity the objective is to create a regex from other regexen.  for some cases, you can simply inline the regexen.  and for efficiency, when you can, you seem likely to want to.  for other cases, you can't, but you could get away with python/ruby/5.mumble-like named regex fragments.  I'm not sure this is worth bothering with until later.  Because in the general case,
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17:42 [particle] why is lambdabot so slow?
17:44 fglock mncharity: re when you can't - see line #240 - using a method as a matcher
17:44 mncharity you actually have to handle recursion.  if you are supporting p5, the only way to get p5 local() in embedded code blocks to work properly, is to actually recurse, since there is no other way to fiddle with local().  if you are just doing p6, then you have control, so you can use a stack machine, or whatever.  then the question is whether you're targeting
17:44 fglock is supposed to cover the corner cases, if it doesn't kill perl
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17:46 pmurias fglock: got to get it to support a bit more p5 land interaction first ;)
17:46 mncharity a version of p5 which has recursive regexp support or not.  if yes, life is simple, and you should be able to just inline code blocks, and have the right thing happen.  But if not, if you want it to work on 5.8, then when you encounter a subrule or code block, you can't use a real regular expression anywhere above it in the regexp ast tree.  Ie, given (b*<foo>)+
17:47 mncharity the b* can be a native re, but the () and + have to be implemented by you.
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17:49 mncharity actually, b* can only be an native re with some hoop jumping (ie, to backtrack, you have to hand the native b* re a shortened version of the target string).  which may well not be worth it for simple b*, but might be for more complex expressions.
17:49 fglock mncharity: hmm - it seems to work; I wonder if you'd try it out (use http://svn.pugscode.org/pugs/v6/v6​-KindaPerl6/examples/token-test.pl as a start point)
17:49 lambdabot http://tinyurl.com/2hf4xk
17:50 fglock I'll try it here
17:50 mncharity oh, I guess there was also a fourth set of thoughts, re inheritance and methods access.  but looking...
17:51 fglock inheritance is tested in the prototype, but it is not tested in kp6 yet
17:51 charsbar joined #perl6
17:52 mncharity re token-test, there don't seem to be any instances of non-top-level subrules.
17:52 mncharity err, non-(top-level and non-recursive) subrules
17:54 mncharity token-test is an example of something which can be inlined.
17:55 mncharity let's see, if  $<rep> := (.)   is changed to  $<rep> := (<word>)  ...
17:56 pasteling "fglock" at 201.54.129.80 pasted "backtracking p5rx+ subrule" (25 lines, 360B) at http://sial.org/pbot/26224
17:56 fglock mncharity: it worked
17:57 mncharity and $/<word> got set?
17:57 fglock sure
17:57 * mncharity ponders...
17:58 fglock do you have a kp6 checkout?
18:01 mncharity ok, so what's happening is that the log approach is letting you flatten that into a single inline re.  so, a case where this won't be possible is...
18:01 mncharity re kp6, yes, but I haven't run it, so rather than fighting/learning, I was waiting for there to be a pressing need...
18:05 mncharity ...won't be possible is...  well, either recursion   token word { q <word>* }   or a code block anywhere which tries to itself do a re match.
18:05 Psyche^ joined #perl6
18:05 Psyche^ changed the nick to Patterner
18:06 fglock__ joined #perl6
18:06 mncharity the first can't be inlined (I don't think), but does work with a named named sub-expressions extension  (like  (?P<word>)q(?<word>)*)   or somesuch, I forget the syntax).
18:08 pmurias fglock: where is Scalar _dispatch defined?
18:09 mncharity but the second can't be done unless you either have a regexp engine capable of reentrancy, or you can inline not just the pattern, but the surrounding code as well.   (ie, p5 op codes, which then looks a lot like having a regexp engine capable of reentrancy;)
18:09 mncharity or you handle the recursion yourself
18:09 mncharity rather than trying to embed it in an re
18:13 mncharity avar: yes, it looks like I meant 5.10 :)  thanks
18:14 mncharity my suggestion would be to keep it simple, and target 5.9/5.10.
18:15 rintaro joined #perl6
18:15 mncharity then implementing a subrule call is as simple as  (?{ high_Im_a_subrule_call() })   (assuming the match context is passed in locals)
18:16 mncharity s/high/hi/
18:16 edenc joined #perl6
18:17 mncharity questions, comments, thoughts?
18:19 b_jonas joined #perl6
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18:20 fglock__ rehi
18:20 pmurias rehello
18:21 fglock__ pmurias: one sec
18:21 thoughtpolice joined #perl6
18:22 * mncharity is unsure what flgock_* did/didn't see...
18:23 fglock__ MOP.pm line 394; it points to the implementation in line 78
18:23 fglock__ mncharity: backlogging
18:25 devogon joined #perl6
18:26 fglock__ about recursion - this is easy to test; about a re inside a block, I'll try that too
18:27 pmurias fglock: i want to create an kp6 wrapper object around a p5 one
18:27 fglock__ re using kp6 - there are no crazy dependencies, it should be straightforward
18:28 fglock__ pmurias: adding a dispatch key should do it, I think
18:31 pmurias i get a no such method in Class error
18:31 pugs_svnbot r16975 | pmurias++ | trunk:
18:31 pugs_svnbot : kp6: Wrap renamed
18:31 pugs_svnbot : a problem with wraping objects
18:31 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/16975
18:31 lambdabot Title: Changeset 16975 - Pugs - Trac
18:31 iblechbot joined #perl6
18:32 pmurias works fine if i FETCH the value, so i think Scalar does some filtering of it's own
18:32 mncharity fglock__: ok.  inheritance now, or inheritance later?
18:33 * pmurias will take a break and listen to bbc a bit...
18:33 fglock__ mncharity: I added the recursive example to the repo - it just works
18:33 fglock__ pmurias: hmm
18:34 fglock__ mncharity: sorry?
18:35 fglock__ the way inheritance works right now is by eval'ing the regex variable in the grammar's namespace; this is supposed to be refined later
18:36 b_jonas joined #perl6
18:37 fglock__ hmm - fixing my commit
18:37 jisom joined #perl6
18:39 fglock__ mncharity: http://svn.pugscode.org/pugs/v6/v6-Kin​daPerl6/examples/token-test-recurse.pl
18:39 pugs_svnbot r16976 | fglock++ | trunk:
18:39 pugs_svnbot : [kp6] added examples/token-test-recurse.pl
18:39 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/16976
18:39 lambdabot Title: Changeset 16976 - Pugs - Trac
18:39 lambdabot http://tinyurl.com/2xfp2e
18:40 rho joined #perl6
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18:41 mncharity re recursive works,  that's rather unexpected.  how about  word { a<word>*b }  ?
18:42 fglock__ trying
18:42 mncharity re inheritance, refined later, ok :)
18:42 pugs_svnbot r16977 | fglock++ | trunk:
18:42 pugs_svnbot : [kp6] v6/docs/p6regex-on-p5regex.txt TODO updated with mncharity++ questions
18:42 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/16977
18:42 lambdabot Title: Changeset 16977 - Pugs - Trac
18:43 weinig joined #perl6
18:44 fglock__ mncharity: no problem !!!
18:47 mncharity perl -we 'sub f{ print "hi$1" if "b" =~ /(b)/ } "=~ /(a)(?{f()})/; print $1'   => Out of memory!
18:48 mncharity err, that's not right,
18:48 jhorwitz joined #perl6
18:48 mncharity perl -we 'sub f{ print "hi$1" if "b" =~ /(b)/ } "a" =~ /(a)(?{f()})/; print $1'  => Out of memory!
18:48 mncharity v5.8.8
18:48 audreyt "hiba"
18:48 audreyt v5.9.5
18:48 fglock__ kp6's version: qr/(?{ local $GLOBAL::_M = [ $GLOBAL::_M, 'create', pos(), \$_ ]; $GLOBAL::_M2 = $GLOBAL::_M; })(?:(?:a(?:(??{ eval '$_rule_word' })(?{ local $GLOBAL::_M = [ $GLOBAL::_M, "named_capture_to_array", "word" ]; }))*b))(?{ local $GLOBAL::_M = [ $GLOBAL::_M, 'to', pos() ]; $GLOBAL::_M2 = $GLOBAL::_M; })/x
18:49 fglock__ :)
18:49 fglock__ audreyt !!!
18:49 audreyt greetings
18:49 mncharity yes.  :)  thus my suggestion to target 5.9/5.10.  It has a reentrant regex engine.  or at least claims to.
18:49 fglock__ missed you so much :)
18:49 audreyt (no, my liver is not yet fully allowing me to hack. but finally some irc'ing.)
18:49 audreyt mncharity: yeah, 5.10 has built-in grammar support and recdescent et al
18:50 audreyt would make performance competitive, or at least comparable
18:50 mncharity grammar support ?!?   oh my
18:50 weinig joined #perl6
18:51 mncharity audreyt: you realize this is the second time I haven't been around for months, stop by, and you're here.  as far as I can tell, you're here all the time :)
18:51 audreyt                   /(?<NAME>(?&NAME_PAT))(?<ADDR>(?&ADDRESS_PAT))
18:51 audreyt                    (?(DEFINE)
18:51 audreyt                      (?<NAME_PAT>....)
18:51 audreyt                      (?<ADRESS_PAT>....)
18:51 audreyt                    )/x
18:51 audreyt supported natively, apparently fast enough, all thanks to dmq++
18:51 audreyt (the ?<> is named capture.)
18:52 mncharity ah, right.  I like the DEFINE concept.  must nicer than "it must preceed".  named capture too??  nifty.
18:53 audreyt possesive quantifiers, regex verbs like , (*PRUNE), (*MARK), (*SKIP), (*COMMIT)(*FAIL) and (*ACCEPT)
18:53 audreyt and more :)
18:53 avar yeah, a lot of that stuff could make emitting p5rx a lot faster:)
18:54 avar plus maybe a re::engine that uses perl's engine with another interface that would be easier for an emitter to use
18:55 mncharity has anyone gone through and looked to see what p6 regexp concepts -don't- easily map to the new stuff?  to create a verb shopping list? :)
18:55 fglock__ mncharity: I couldn't find out a way to create a Match object from that, yet
18:56 avar named captures are bound to numbered ones in p5
18:56 avar (for one)
18:57 mncharity bound how?  ie, since the p6 is being emitted, could one do a simple renaming/numbering to keep them clear of each other?
18:58 avar $ perl5.9.5 -E '"abc" =~ /(?<bee>b)/; say $1'
18:58 avar b
18:58 pugs_svnbot r16978 | audreyt++ | trunk:
18:58 pugs_svnbot : * Makefile.PL: Do not remove the trailing .1 from 6.6.1
18:58 pugs_svnbot :   for $ghc_version, so we can distinguish 6.6.1 from 6.6.0.
18:58 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/16978
18:58 lambdabot Title: Changeset 16978 - Pugs - Trac
18:58 fglock__ mncharity: how about (.)* - capture to array
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18:58 mncharity but big picture, it looks like it would be much easier to target 5.9/5.10 than 5.8.  then the question becomes, could 5.9 be tweaked to make it even easier.
18:59 fglock__ hmm
18:59 audreyt renaming seems feasible if you emit (?<#0>) for $0
19:00 avar <#0> is invalid syntax, it woulh have to be ?<__0> or something
19:01 audreyt sure...
19:01 fglock__ there are several things that are useful for 6rx-on-5rx, but I think we still need to keep the Match building code
19:02 mncharity re capture to array, yeah, something like that might be the gotcha.  some subtle difference in how repetition or somesuch was handled, which forced one to bail out entirely.  or at least for some class of regexp's, which still means paying the cost of doing a fullish implementation. :/
19:02 audreyt ...but at least such an enging can be swapped in lexically...
19:02 pugs_svnbot r16979 | audreyt++ | trunk:
19:02 pugs_svnbot : * inc/Module/Install/Pugs.pm: Since src/ now contains
19:02 pugs_svnbot :   no .h and .c files anymore, remove the -I and -i lines.
19:02 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/16979
19:02 lambdabot Title: Changeset 16979 - Pugs - Trac
19:02 fglock__ it may make sense to have 2 implementations; PCR does that
19:03 mncharity re Match, I wonder if the p5 5.9 folks could be talked into having a Match object... :)
19:03 avar you can make one yoursel
19:03 [particle] mncharity: 5.10RC1 is out, so don't expect any 5.9 changes now
19:04 avar http://search.cpan.org/~avar/​re-engine-PCR-0.02_01/PCR.pm
19:04 lambdabot Title: re::engine::PCR - Pugs::Compiler::Rule regex engine - search.cpan.org
19:04 [particle] ...they'd have to be 5.11.
19:04 mncharity re rc1, ah, ok, ah well, but nifty it's coming out
19:04 avar all this stuff can be changed post 5.10 since you can plug in another rx engine
19:04 avar including a modified 5.10 engine
19:04 [particle] mncharity: in case you didn't know, perl devel versions are 5.<odd> and release versions are 5.<even>
19:05 mncharity yup, tnx :)
19:06 mncharity so yes, we would still need to do the Match object.
19:06 avar why do you need a match object?
19:06 avar $+[] and $-[] are ->to and ->from at least
19:06 fglock__ avar: for p6-in-p5
19:06 avar Yes, but whan specific features
19:06 mncharity p6 has one :)
19:07 fglock__ avar: for representing submatch trees, for example
19:07 mncharity separate named and numbered captures, which are themselves ... what fglock__ said
19:08 mncharity $2 is a Match object in p6, which may itself contain other Match objects.  rather than being a string.  (which I assume in 5.10 it still is, but I wouldn't bet on anything at this point:)
19:10 fglock__ audreyt: I wonder if you'd have some time to discuss p6-in-p6 - maybe at Vienna, or before?
19:11 audreyt at Vienna perhaps
19:11 audreyt I'm still constrained by incessant sleep
19:12 audreyt e.g., now
19:12 * audreyt fades back to background
19:13 * fglock__ sings a lullaby
19:13 mncharity fglock__: so I guess my one-liner is suggesting you target 5.10, and use explicit (?{ subrule() }) recursion rather than trying to inline everything.
19:13 mncharity audreyt: fare and be well...
19:13 fglock__ mncharity: yes, it's a possible optimization
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19:15 fglock__ mncharity: however, I'm more likely to follow on to the next project phase, and optimize later
19:16 fglock__ gotta finish this project :)
19:16 mncharity err, I think of inlining as the special case optimization for speed.  which won't work in general.  so correctness is at issue, rather optimization
19:17 mncharity but I gather I haven't persuaded you.  I do suggest checking at least   token word { a<word>*b }
19:17 fglock__ hmm - I tried that, it worked
19:17 mncharity hmm.
19:18 fglock__ the code I pasted above
19:18 mncharity looking...
19:19 fglock__ should I commit the code?
19:20 mncharity i don't see the paste...
19:20 pugs_svnbot r16980 | fglock++ | trunk:
19:20 pugs_svnbot : [kp6] examples/token-test-recurse2.pl - a recursive regex example
19:20 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/16980
19:20 lambdabot Title: Changeset 16980 - Pugs - Trac
19:20 fglock__ please do: $ perl kp6-perl5.pl --perl5rx < examples/token-test-recurse2.pl | perl -I lib5regex -I lib
19:21 fglock__ from directory: v6/v6-KindaPerl6/
19:21 mncharity doing...
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19:24 mncharity It also seems to match aaababb
19:24 mncharity which is a no no
19:25 fglock__ testing
19:26 fglock__ heh - look again
19:26 fglock__ a(a(ab)(ab)b)
19:27 mncharity lol
19:29 fglock__ I should say mncharity++  # looking very hard for bugs
19:30 mncharity :)
19:31 * mncharity tries to read compiler output...
19:31 fglock__ use perltidy - though it doesn't do regexes
19:33 fglock__ you'll see several (?: ... ) that could be optimized out
19:33 diakopter sweet....
19:33 mncharity so the key idea is that it is not in fact inlining, or at least not statically, but instead doing just-in-time inclusion via the eval()...
19:33 pugs_svnbot r16981 | diakopter++ | trunk:
19:33 pugs_svnbot : please disregard this test.
19:33 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/16981
19:33 lambdabot Title: Changeset 16981 - Pugs - Trac
19:34 fglock__ mncharity: yes; perl5.9.x would be able to do real inlining
19:34 pugs_svnbot r16982 | diakopter++ | trunk:
19:34 pugs_svnbot : deleting my test file. :)
19:34 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/16982
19:34 lambdabot Title: Changeset 16982 - Pugs - Trac
19:35 fglock__ and true recursive calls
19:37 diakopter announcement to #perl6: we have been donated a license to use Repos.se, a browser-interface to subversion.  It is installed transparently at http://svn.pugscode.org/pugs/   You can edit, rename, copy, move, delete, replace(upload), and view the changelogs of any file or a directory (and all its contents, deeply), all through a web browser.  Permissions should work as they do via DAV.
19:39 * mncharity returns from pacing in thought
19:39 mncharity very nifty.
19:40 mncharity fglock__++
19:40 fglock__ mncharity: :)
19:40 fglock__ diakopter: it looks very nice
19:42 pugs_svnbot r16983 | avar++ | trunk:
19:42 pugs_svnbot : woohoo
19:42 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/16983
19:42 lambdabot Title: Changeset 16983 - Pugs - Trac
19:42 avar so, uh, it works
19:43 avar diakopter: what is it written in?
19:43 pugs_svnbot r16984 | avar++ | trunk:
19:43 pugs_svnbot : deleting test directory
19:43 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/16984
19:43 lambdabot Title: Changeset 16984 - Pugs - Trac
19:43 diakopter obfuscated/encrypted php
19:44 mncharity and even if it turns out one can't for some reason throw exceptions between blocks of a regexp, one could fake it.  and you can "succeed" even if the actual regexp doesn't, so you can assign to the 'string being matched', even if p5 doesn't let you.  and, at least on 5.10, you can do continuations down through subrule if you need to.
19:44 pasteling "evalbot_r16982" at 193.200.132.135 pasted "Pugs build failure" (6 lines, 278B) at http://sial.org/pbot/26229
19:44 bonesss changed the nick to bones`OFF
19:45 mncharity that's sweet
19:45 fglock__ mncharity: that's too much info in one sentence - I'm still reading :)
19:45 mncharity lol
19:47 fglock__ re succeed - yes, you just need to close the lexical scope in the global operation stack
19:49 fglock__ re throw exceptions, I think it's possible, but I need to write down an example to test
19:50 fglock__ re continuations, not sure what you mean?
19:50 ashleyb audreyt: are you at TimToady's this month? (I recall that you were planning to do that)
19:52 diakopter ashleyb: audreyt didn't make that trip, nor to oscon this year, it seems. :(  still, !health hinders.
19:52 barney joined #perl6
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19:53 diakopter Aankhen``: backlog!
19:53 Aankhen`` Sir yes sir!
19:54 Shangrila joined #perl6
19:55 Shangrila hi
19:55 mncharity re continuations, just wondering how one might deal with pure code, non-re subrules, if it turned out one needed to for some reason.
19:55 mncharity s/how/whether one coud
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19:56 diakopter I'll add the various plugins later... gtg4now
19:57 mncharity so a lot hinges on the regexp engine actually behaving correctly, in the face of this unusual exercise it's being given.  historically that's been problematic.  eh, but that's what 5.10.1 is for.
19:57 pmurias Shangila: hi
19:59 mncharity oh, silly me, you are emitting the code blocks which would hypothetically write to the Match, which makes the Match side of things much simpler.
19:59 fglock__ mncharity: there is a non-re subrule test in the prototype
20:00 fglock__ yes
20:00 mncharity fglock__: ok, new one-liner: looks good ;)
20:01 spinclad .oO{ o-tori tan westu hál! }Oo.
20:02 Aankhen`` diakopter: …was there a reason why you wanted me to backlog?
20:06 mncharity so the leverage comes from having control of the code that's embedded (by virtue of emitting from p6, rather than accepting arbitrary p5), and doing infrastructure with (?{}) blocks, rather than external code, which lets you use (??{}) for inclusion.  and 5.10 is available for when a code block needs to itself use a regexp.
20:07 fglock__ "emitting the code blocks which would hypothetically write to the Match" - I wonder how to explain that to an audience
20:08 mncharity it's just a variant on "having control of the code that's embedded (by virtue of emitting from p6, rather than accepting arbitrary p5)".
20:08 mncharity so you don't have to... oh, wait.
20:10 mncharity well, it's not as good as I first thought.  you can when the code block _isn't_ writing to $/, and can tell when the top-level of the block itself _is_, but if the block calls a sub(), handing it the Match, you may have to be pessimistic, perhaps do a diff after the call, since you can't be sure whether the Match has been written to or not.
20:11 mncharity s/you can when/you can tell when
20:12 fglock__ the plan (so far) is to log the STORE operations in the MOP
20:13 mncharity in the arbitrary p5 case, unless you do code analysis, if there's a user specified code block, you have to assume they are reading and writing the match tree, and have everything set up for that.
20:13 fglock__ I need this anyway for BEGIN block post-processing
20:13 mncharity ah, ok
20:15 mncharity ok, back to hacking.  that was fun.  thanks! :D
20:15 fglock__ re the sub() case, $/ is lexical - only OUTER::<$/> can change the match result (not properly implemented, yet)
20:15 fglock__ mncharity: thank you :)
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20:21 pugs_svnbot r16985 | Aankhen++ | trunk:
20:21 pugs_svnbot : * [irclog] more abbrs.
20:21 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/16985
20:26 pmurias fglock__: any clues why the Scalar inteferes with dispatch to my wrapper and how to fix it?
20:26 fglock__ pmurias: (probably) Scalar is a container; you need to dispatch to the value
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20:32 fglock__ pmurias: if that's the problem, the way I found to fix it is to always call FETCH, since FETCH on a value is a no-op
20:33 pmurias it works that way
20:34 pmurias but what interest me what exactly is Scalars->{_dispatch}
20:34 pmurias you pointed me to Scalars->{_dispatch_VAR} before
20:36 fglock__ Scalar->{_dispatch} implements the Scalar own methods, like STORE
20:36 pmurias and _dispatch_VAR?
20:37 fglock__ Scalar->{_dispatch_VAR} implements dispatching on the value's methods
20:37 fglock__ hmm - oops
20:38 fglock__ or is it the other way
20:38 pmurias the emitted code does it the other way around
20:39 fglock__ _dispatch_VAR should implement VAR($x)
20:40 fglock__ sorry - too many implementation details :P
20:42 fglock__ $x = 42 should compile to VAR($x).STORE( 42 )
20:47 pmurias in terms of emitted code into $x->{_dispatch_Var}($x,...)?
20:48 pmurias with ... being "STORE",42
20:48 Schwern joined #perl6
20:50 pmurias what i'm thinking of shouldn't VAR($x).STORE compile to $x->{_dispatch}
20:51 pmurias ($x,"STORE")
20:52 fglock joined #perl6
20:53 pmurias and $x.method to ($x->{_dispatch}($x,"FETCH"))->{_dispatc​h}($x->{_dispatch}($x,"FETCH"),"method")
20:53 fglock yes, unless $x->{_roles}{auto_deref}
20:54 fglock which calls FETCH automatically
20:55 pmurias i see
20:57 fglock hmm - no, $x.method is: $x->{_dispatch}( $x, 'method', )
20:58 pmurias fglock: squashed the bug :) :) :)
21:00 pugs_svnbot r16986 | pmurias++ | trunk:
21:00 pugs_svnbot : kp6: squashed the containers dispatcher used on value bug
21:00 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/16986
21:00 lambdabot Title: Changeset 16986 - Pugs - Trac
21:00 fglock cool - sorry for the confusion, I wrote this code long ago ( > 1 month ) :)
21:01 fglock oh, it was modifying self
21:01 fglock nice catch
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21:16 rindolf Hi all!
21:16 rindolf Can anyone help me with a Prolog problem? http://erxz.com/pb/3527
21:16 lambdabot Title: freenode_web paste from "rindolf" at 71.6.194.243...
21:21 fglock___ left #perl6
21:22 pmurias good night
21:22 Aankhen`` rindolf: I'm pretty sure this was #perl6 last time I checked.
21:22 rindolf pmurias: night.
21:23 pmurias rindolf: got a prolog book at home
21:24 pmurias what do you want to achive?
21:24 rindolf pmurias: I'm trying to solve exercise 6.4 from here - http://www.coli.uni-saarland.de/~kris/​learn-prolog-now/html/node52.html#sec.l6.exercises
21:24 lambdabot Title: 6.3 Exercises, http://tinyurl.com/ysouw7
21:26 pmurias i'll look into it tommorow as it's too late here for thinking&
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23:49 Limbic_Region what's the svn incantation to see the diff of a file from the current version to the previous revision?
23:50 diakopter svn diff filename
23:51 Limbic_Region that's not working
23:51 Limbic_Region by not working, I mean it returns immediately - no output
23:52 diakopter do you mean diff the previous revision to the current revision?
23:52 diakopter I thought you meant you'd modified the file
23:52 Limbic_Region no, I modified the last checkin
23:53 Limbic_Region I just checked out and saw that it had been modified in the current version
23:53 Limbic_Region so now I want to see the diff from the file in the HEAD with PREV
23:55 Limbic_Region I figured it out
23:56 Limbic_Region svn dff file -rPREV
23:56 Limbic_Region unfortunately, it shows every single line as being changed
23:56 Limbic_Region *shrug*
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