Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2007-07-12

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:02 diakopter maybe line endings were changed.
00:04 Limbic_Region ah, that could be
00:12 unobe Limbic_Region: svn diff -r PREV:HEAD works for me
00:13 unobe is that just a shortcut for -r PREV?
00:13 unobe nope, it's different
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00:20 Limbic_Region unobe - I am only interested in a specific file
00:20 unobe unobe: then just append the filename: svn diff -r PREV:HEAD filename
00:20 unobe hehe oops
00:20 unobe Limbic_Region: then just append the filename: svn diff -r PREV:HEAD filename
00:20 Limbic_Region right
00:21 Limbic_Region svn diff file -rPREV is shorter however
00:21 unobe ah, well -r PREV will show the current changes that aren't versioned yet
00:21 Limbic_Region I had just checked out HEAD though
00:21 unobe o
00:21 Limbic_Region but of course you are right
00:21 Limbic_Region [19:56] <Limbic_Region> I just checked out and saw that it had been modified in the current version
00:22 unobe oops, my bad
00:22 unobe sorry
00:22 * unobe needs to read instead of scan
00:23 diakopter uses of 'scan' have shifted from antonyms of 'skim' to synonyms of 'skim'
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00:28 unobe hmm...sorta like peruse then
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00:41 aindilis ls
00:45 diakopter I'm here
00:49 Aankhen`` . .. MAKE_MONEY_NOW.EXE
00:52 daxim @tell juerd who renamed unitut to unifaq in 5.9.5?
00:52 lambdabot Consider it noted.
00:55 diakopter Aankhen``: lol
00:58 nipotaway changed the nick to nipotan
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01:20 ingy hi Schwern
01:22 stevan_ hey ingy
01:23 ingy hiya stevan_
01:23 stevan_ ingy: so what is PMIR?
01:23 buu ingy: Did you want something?
01:24 ingy stevan_: PMIR is a kind of preinstalled CPAN over svn
01:24 stevan_ no shit
01:24 stevan_ hmm
01:24 ingy buu: yes. I want to host pmir.org on your box :)
01:24 buu Uhoh.
01:25 buu What do you need?
01:25 ingy just for bootstrapping...
01:25 ingy buu: just a couple apache restarts :)
01:25 buu And dns I suppose.
01:25 ingy no I got that handled
01:26 ingy just like all my stuff, it's all in my homedir
01:27 ingy stevan_: I'm using YAML descriptions to gen big/smart Makefiles
01:27 * Limbic_Region yawns
01:27 ingy stevan_: where did you see PMIR anyways?
01:27 stevan_ ingy: cpan recent
01:27 * stevan_ is reading the ingy-blog right ow
01:27 stevan_ whats up with the wrist jewlery
01:27 * stevan_ is gonna skip to the bottom
01:28 ingy my wrist is all operated on
01:28 ingy that blog needs an update
01:28 ingy I'm just finally getting off the slowdown drugs
01:29 stevan_ what happened ?
01:29 ingy stevan_: yeah I posted a placeholder module. as you can see...
01:29 Limbic_Region ingy go fast, ingy go boom
01:29 ingy hi Limbic_Region
01:30 stevan_ wow .,.. shit man,.. I been outta touch
01:30 stevan_ ingy: glad you are okay,.. a belated get-well :)
01:30 ingy thanks bro
01:30 ingy just need to get my wrist working over the next many months
01:31 stevan_ practice practice practice,.. just try not to go blind or grow too much hair ;)
01:31 stevan_ I have to say,.. thats one badass coffee cup holder :)
01:31 stevan_ you should get a removable model
01:32 ingy when I can play my strat again, it's all good
01:32 stevan_ nice
01:32 stevan_ uhm.,.. wait,.. use your teeth there hendrix
01:32 ingy stevan_: I had that remove with a hand-drill and no anesthetic
01:33 * stevan_ makes a mental note to walk when in Taiwan
01:33 ingy i rode that sme highway every day for months
01:33 ingy I just got too wild
01:33 ingy it won't happen again
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02:10 dmwaters {global notice} Good day folks, we have some maintenence about to happen to 2 rotation servers. These boxes have been out of rotation for a while but we'll still lose some users.
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02:22 Schwern ingy:  So you're tiling?  That mean you're staying in Seattle?
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02:35 diakopter Alias_: hi
02:36 Alias_ heya
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05:04 pugs_svnbot r16987 | Darren_Duncan++ | trunk:
05:04 pugs_svnbot : ext/Muldis-DB/ : this is the Perl 6 equivalent of what will end up on CPAN as Muldis::DB version 0.1.0 for Perl 5
05:04 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/16987
05:04 lambdabot Title: Changeset 16987 - Pugs - Trac
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05:25 diakopter dduncan: have you excluded Muldis-DB from the pugs distribution builder?
05:25 diakopter merely curious
05:25 dduncan what do you mean?
05:25 dduncan build-wise, it is treated like all the other ext/
05:26 dduncan if you are thinking it should be excluded because I do separate CPAN uploads, then that isn't right
05:26 dduncan the Muldis-DB in the Pugs repo is written in Perl 6 ... the one on CPAN is written in Perl 5 ... they are different
05:27 dduncan that said, at such time it becomes normal to distribute Perl 6 code separately from Pugs or Parrot et al, then I will do that with Muldis-DB for Perl 6
05:27 dduncan but it isn't normal yet
05:27 dduncan diakopter, does that answer your question?
05:28 dduncan until further notice, MDB for Perl 6 is shipped with Pugs
05:29 diakopter heh; ok.  yes, that answers my question :)
05:30 dduncan on that note, since a lot of the pod is identical for the Perl 5 and 6 versions, I may split that into its own distro as well ... I"m thinking mainly of Language.pod and friends ... which are to Muldis-DB proper what the Perl 6 synopsis are to Pugs or Parrot
05:31 dduncan but for now they are kept together to reduce certain matters of complexity ...
05:31 dduncan probably a good tipping point might be if I get around to implementing Muldis D as a parrot-hosted language
05:32 diakopter do they fulfill the same test suite?
05:33 dduncan fyi, Muldis D has 2 forms, called Concrete and Abstract ... the former is identical regardless of implementation, some details of the latter change depending on the implementation ... the test suite is currently written to the latter, so it differs between impls
05:33 dduncan but yes, it is the same test suite, aside from perl 5 vs perl 6 syntax
05:34 dduncan eventually there'll be a Concrete test suite, which can then be shared
05:37 * diakopter ponders wordless notions of some sort
05:38 dduncan to further explain, Concrete Muldis D is for all intents and purposes the *normal* programming language, like Perl 6 itself
05:38 dduncan Abstract Muldis D is what I call the meta-model by which Muldis D code can produce or update new Muldis D code ...
05:39 dduncan and it is also the best thing to use for bridging if Muldis D is embedded in a host language, like Perl
05:40 dduncan eg, if Perl code defines Muldis D code using the Abstract form, then various native data types can carry over without conversion, eg numbers stay numbers
05:40 dduncan whereas if only the Concrete form was used ... which is analagous to how SQL is used, then any data would have to be converted to character strings and back again ... bind parameters aside
05:41 * diakopter thinks he might have to RTFM
05:42 dduncan if you prefer HTML, wait a few hours for v0.1.0 to reach search.cpan.org et al ... 0.1.0 adds a lot of what I just said, which wasn't there previously
05:42 dduncan actually, nevermind
05:42 dduncan its already there
05:42 dduncan thankfully, pause et al is much faster now than a few years ago
05:43 dduncan docs be at http://search.cpan.org/dist/Muldis-DB/ as html
05:43 lambdabot Title: Darren Duncan / Muldis-DB - search.cpan.org
05:43 diakopter cool
05:43 dduncan note that any .pod files are identical in the perl 5/6 versions
05:43 dduncan only the pod in the .pm files may differ, and currently that is maybe 90% the same
05:44 diakopter I don't prefer reading HTML over POD, but I do like how my browser renders the HTML.
05:44 dduncan that's what I mean
05:44 diakopter I know :P
06:14 pugs_svnbot r16988 | moritz++ | trunk:
06:14 pugs_svnbot : [perlhint] a few more captials in the data
06:14 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/16988
06:14 lambdabot Title: Changeset 16988 - Pugs - Trac
06:14 moritz http://moritz.faui2k3.org/perlhint/?q=* <-- *very* first prototype, nearly no data by now
06:14 lambdabot Title: Perlhint: *
06:16 pasteling "evalbot_r16987" at 193.200.132.135 pasted "Pugs build failure" (6 lines, 278B) at http://sial.org/pbot/26232
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06:23 moritz sorry, the right URL is http://moritz.faui2k3.org/perlhints/?q=*
06:23 lambdabot Title: Perlhint: *
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06:24 Alias_ purl, seen ask?
06:24 Alias_ er
06:24 Alias_ wrong channel :)
06:29 moritz svn sucks
06:29 moritz I svn mv'ed a directory, and now on commit it complains that the old dir is missing :(
06:29 moritz svn--
06:35 moritz wow, a 'svn revert --recursive' delete the .svn directory, now no updates/commits are possible
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06:41 pugs_svnbot r16989 | moritz++ | trunk:
06:41 pugs_svnbot : renamed 'perlhint' to 'perlhints' - no more renames soonish, I promise ;)
06:41 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/16989
06:41 lambdabot Title: Changeset 16989 - Pugs - Trac
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07:25 meppl good morning
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09:11 moritz moin
09:11 bloonix moin moritz :)
09:15 pugs_svnbot r16990 | pmurias++ | trunk:
09:15 pugs_svnbot : kp6:
09:15 pugs_svnbot : added sleep
09:15 pugs_svnbot : a basic draw a blue rect sdl script works
09:15 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/16990
09:15 lambdabot Title: Changeset 16990 - Pugs - Trac
09:16 pasteling "evalbot_r16989" at 193.200.132.135 pasted "Pugs build failure" (6 lines, 278B) at http://sial.org/pbot/26236
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10:24 pugs_svnbot r16991 | pmurias++ | trunk:
10:24 pugs_svnbot : missing file & uncommited change
10:24 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/16991
10:24 lambdabot Title: Changeset 16991 - Pugs - Trac
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11:31 moritz ping *
11:34 moritz this being a perl channel, maybe I should ping .* ;-)
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11:34 moritz basically, I just want to hear opinions on how to annote STD.pm
11:35 moritz what POD tags to use, and if I should use URIs and the like
11:42 pmurias moritz: pong $moritz
11:43 moritz pmurias: do you read perl6-users?
11:48 fglock joined #perl6
11:48 pmurias fglock: hi!
11:48 fglock pmurias: hi
11:49 pmurias moritz: just looked at http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.perl6.users/
11:49 lambdabot Title: perl.perl6.users archive - nntp.perl.org
11:50 pmurias fglock: what is missing for bootstraping kp6?
11:51 fglock since kp6 is written in mp6, all you need is to emit mp6-level code
11:52 fglock which is not much interesting
11:52 fglock you can almost reuse the mp6-perl5 emitter
11:52 moritz can kp6 already compile all of mp6?
11:52 fglock sure
11:53 pmurias added a bit Time::HiRes::time's and the only thing taking noticable time while compiling kp6 with itself is the parsing
11:53 pmurias * a bit of
11:53 moritz I wasn't sure because you mumbled something about "missing runtime" every so often ;)
11:53 fglock moritz: that's for running Perl6; mp6 is simple enough
11:54 moritz fglock: ok
11:54 fglock and kp6 is finally entering the develop-the-runtime phase :)
11:56 pmurias fglock: is the perl5rx emitter ratchety?
11:56 fglock pmurias: developing a mp6-on-p5rx backend for kp6 would probably provide a faster kp6 compilation
11:57 fglock pmurias: p5rx is backtracking by default; there are no :ratchet switch processing yet
11:59 fglock pmurias: I'd rather proceed with the project, instead of optimize
11:59 fglock because we can optimize p6-in-p6, instead of p6-in-mp6
12:04 pmurias is mp6 a kp6 subset?
12:05 pmurias mp6 and kp6 the languages (not implementations)
12:05 fglock mp6 is a Perl6 subset; kp6 is not a separate language, it's a Perl 6 compiler
12:05 fglock meant to be
12:07 moritz fglock: will kp6 always be in mp6, or will you at some point use more advanced p6 features? (with a bootstrapped kp6)
12:07 fglock mp6 is an mp6 implementation written in mp6; kp6 is a Perl 6 written in mp6; 6-in-6 is written in Perl 6
12:07 fglock moritz: that will be called 6-in-6
12:07 moritz ok, that answers my question ;)
12:08 fglock TimToady is writing a 6-in-6 parser; kp6 is trying to catch up
12:09 pmurias fglock: re "can kp6 already compile all of mp6", so it's just bugs stoping kp6 from compiling itself?
12:13 masak fglock: thx, that was the cleares explanation of <mp6 kp6 6-in-6> I've seen so far
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12:16 fglock_ the kp6 runtime and algorithms are reusable for 6-in-6; so the actual 6-in-6 final development is expected to be fast, and will likely focus on performance
12:18 masak fglock_: maybe you answered this already, but what's the easiest way to help you along with kp6?
12:18 masak write tests?
12:20 fglock_ masak: there is a project plan: http://svn.pugscode.org/pu​gs/v6/docs/kp6-roadmap.pod
12:20 fglock_ one second, I'll commit an update
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12:21 pugs_svnbot r16992 | fglock++ | trunk:
12:21 pugs_svnbot : [kp6] v6/docs/kp6-roadmap.pod - phase 4 placeholder
12:21 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/16992
12:21 lambdabot Title: Changeset 16992 - Pugs - Trac
12:21 Blwood joined #perl6
12:22 masak fglock_: yes, kudos on the project plan, it's impressively current/comprehensive
12:22 fglock_ masak: discussing the plan is a great way to help
12:22 masak fglock_: oki. I will read it carefully and get back to you
12:23 * moritz updates the html version of the project plan
12:23 fglock_ dead-ends are very time-consuming, and actual development has been quite fast
12:25 pasteling "evalbot_r16991" at 193.200.132.135 pasted "Pugs build failure" (6 lines, 278B) at http://sial.org/pbot/26238
12:26 fglock_ brb # coffee
12:30 moritz p6l # irc log test
12:34 masak moritz: cool. maybe even a link to it?
12:34 moritz masak: that'swhat I'm implementing atm (if you mean a link to p6l)
12:35 masak moritz: yes
12:35 masak moritz++ # making irc.pugscode.org perl6-specific
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12:42 pugs_svnbot r16993 | fglock++ | trunk:
12:42 pugs_svnbot : [kp6] v6/docs/kp6-roadmap.pod - added links to POD and HTML versions
12:42 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/16993
12:42 lambdabot Title: Changeset 16993 - Pugs - Trac
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12:45 moritz ok, implemented ;)
12:45 pugs_svnbot r16994 | moritz++ | trunk:
12:45 pugs_svnbot : [irclog]
12:45 pugs_svnbot :  * fixed a lot of whitespaces
12:45 pugs_svnbot :  * added a list of words that are turned into links when mentioned verbatim
12:45 pugs_svnbot :    (like p6l -> http://www.nntp.perl.org/g​roup/perl.perl6.language/)
12:45 pugs_svnbot :    needs some refactoring though, because it contains duplicate code with
12:45 lambdabot Title: perl.perl6.language archive - nntp.perl.org
12:45 pugs_svnbot :    Aankhen++'s abbreviation parsing.
12:45 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/16994
12:46 lambdabot Title: Changeset 16994 - Pugs - Trac
12:50 moritz hm, maybe the abbr.dat and links.dat should be channel specific
12:50 pugs_svnbot r16995 | moritz++ | trunk:
12:50 pugs_svnbot : [irclog] deleted p6l and p6c from abbr.dat since they are links now
12:50 pugs_svnbot : and thus never reached
12:50 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/16995
12:50 lambdabot Title: Changeset 16995 - Pugs - Trac
12:51 pmurias from a quick skim of the s12, simple multis would require only type narrownes comparision from the meta model
13:00 * fglock_ wonders how to implement Signature, Capture, and Match in plain mp6
13:00 fglock_ I'll try something and see if it works
13:02 fglock_ hmm - I'd better finish the plan first - this is too distracting
13:05 fglock_ pmurias: there is an old prototype for "Code" in lib/KindaPerl6/Runtime/Perl5/Code.pm
13:05 fglock_ this could probably be reimplemented in mp6;
13:06 fglock_ one problem is the access to Pad, but this can be implemented as a nativa subroutine call
13:06 fglock_ native
13:06 masak hm, the multi method call order never was completely worked out, was it?
13:06 fglock_ no, we need to reinvent :)
13:08 masak fglock_: not sure I understand what 'reinvent' has to do with the spec not being ready...
13:09 fglock_ masak: we implement it, and have the implementation be specced, than reimplement if necessary
13:09 masak fglock_: ah.
13:10 fglock_ and then the new implementation brings new ideas, which are then re-specced
13:10 masak the way I understand it, the problem with speccing it was that nobody could even concieve of a good spec. so this is probably a good idea
13:10 masak (implement <-> spec)++
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13:11 pmurias masak: it was quite worked out
13:12 pmurias s12:line 905
13:12 masak pmurias: hm, yes. but I remember at least TheDamian voting against the MMD proposal and advocating simplicity
13:13 masak moritz: does 's12' become a link, too? :)
13:13 moritz masak: atm only S12:905 becomes a link...
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13:13 pmurias all the ';' stuff was delegated for later
13:14 moritz masak: but if you want it, takes just two minutes to implement ;)
13:14 masak moritz: no, S12:905 becoming a link is cool too
13:14 masak moritz: was just wondering if you'd considered it at all
13:15 moritz masak: I did consider it, and until now I'm not entirely sure if I should do it or not ;)
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13:16 pmurias we could probably assume type narrownes meaning subclassing relationship for now
13:17 pmurias without ';' the MMD is IMHO is really simple to implement so the AST & grammar parts would be the difficult ones
13:19 pmurias haircut&
13:21 fglock_ pmurias: the AST is just 'Signature' and 'Capture'
13:21 pugs_svnbot r16996 | moritz++ | trunk:
13:21 pugs_svnbot : [irclog] synopsis links with line numbers are now processed very early, S\d\d
13:21 pugs_svnbot : for which synopsis exists are now turned into links as well
13:21 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/16996
13:21 lambdabot Title: Changeset 16996 - Pugs - Trac
13:21 fglock_ and annotations
13:22 moritz synopsis links should now work for upper case S02
13:22 moritz perl++ # making irc logs such a fun ;)
13:23 [particle] which logs show this?
13:24 moritz irc.pugscode.org
13:25 [particle] nice.
13:29 [particle] if you're in the mood for adding more, processing S05:546-549 would be grand. as well as S05/"Nothing is illegal"
13:29 agentzh [particle]: S05:129 is already supported, no?
13:29 lambdabot agentzh: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
13:29 agentzh @messages
13:29 lambdabot moritz said 1d 5h 47m 6s ago: http://moritz.faui2k3.org/tmp/irclog.sql.bz2 should contain all you need
13:30 [particle] oh, i should say, *highlighting* the text and processing S05:546-549
13:30 agentzh wow...
13:30 agentzh moritz: already downloaded, will look tomorrow :)
13:30 agentzh moritz: thanks :)
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13:31 moritz agentzh: you're welcome
13:31 moritz [particle]: I'll start a TODO list ;)
13:31 [particle] moritz++, this is cool stuff. todo++ too :)
13:31 agentzh you're discussing a Perl 6 regex annotator ?
13:32 * agentzh backlogs.
13:32 moritz are we? not at the moment ;)
13:32 agentzh sorry, lacking the context...
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13:34 pmurias moritz: you couls annote STD.pm with the sort of tags the smartlinks use
13:34 moritz pmurias: yes
13:35 [particle] STD should only be annotated by perl 6 pod and perl 6 comments imo
13:35 moritz what I'm unsure about atm is how the enclosing POD6 tags should be called
13:35 [particle] is there a pod 6 parser in perl 6 yet?
13:35 pugs_svnbot r16997 | fglock++ | trunk:
13:35 pugs_svnbot : [kp6] v6/docs/kp6-roadmap.pod - started detailing phase 4
13:35 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/16997
13:35 lambdabot Title: Changeset 16997 - Pugs - Trac
13:36 fglock_ hmm - how about a kp6-based syntax highlighter
13:36 moritz [particle]: not that I know of
13:36 moritz fglock_: that what be way cool ;)
13:36 [particle] fglock_: that would rock
13:36 fglock_ I think a html-backend would do
13:36 moritz Juerd: btw the money left my account today, it should arrive at yours soonish
13:37 fglock_ oh my, I'm so easily distracted
13:38 moritz fglock_: I think you should take one intermediate step, like returning a lol like so [["keyword", "my"], ["space", " "], ["variable", '$foo']...]
13:38 moritz fglock_: then some HTML slaves like Aankhen'' or me could write the HTML emitter ;)
13:40 [particle] [[<RO>,"TF"]]
13:40 fglock_ moritz: it's as easy as copying Visitor::EmitPerl6.pm to Visitor::EmitHTML.pm and add html tags
13:41 moritz fglock_: I'll take a look at it
13:41 fglock_ it will not resemble the source code, becuse it is re-emitting - but this can be fixed later
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13:42 fglock_ moritz: re intermediate step - agreed, but we could have a working prototype as a motivation
13:43 moritz fglock_: Aye
13:43 fglock_ kp6 currently throws away the pos() information
13:43 * moritz just works on importing the old colabti irclogs
13:44 moritz finished downloading of 2005 ;)
13:45 fglock_ moritz: I'll start it    # no rush for kp6 planning :)
13:45 moritz fglock_: -Ofun is very important after all ;)
13:46 diakopter fglock_: may I ask your opinion on making 'proto' the default (implicit) routine modifier (instead of 'only')?  My argument was that why would you need the 'only' modifier: to declare that a routine (sub/method/operator) can't be partially-overridden?
13:47 iblechbot joined #perl6
13:48 pmurias avoiding accidential merges is probably the reason
13:48 diakopter pmurias: an example?
13:48 fglock_ diakopter: the 'only' idea is to forbid multi-ing, isn't it?
13:49 Juerd moritz: Wonderful!
13:49 Juerd daxim: It wasn't renamed. I split perlunitut to perlunitut and perlunifaq
13:50 pmurias diakopter: take a look at http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/take
13:50 diakopter fglock: yes, so it seems.  but why make that the default?
13:51 fglock_ hmm - because Perl 6 is strict by default?
13:51 pmurias imagine importing several modules which each implement a multi doing one of the meanings
13:52 pmurias you would get a very strange routine then
13:52 fglock_ diakopter: but I don't really have an opinion for or against it
13:53 diakopter pmurias: how would you get a strange routine?  if any of the multis' signatures collided, it'd be a compiler error
13:54 diakopter I mean, how would *6 know which of the editions with identical signatures to use?
13:55 pmurias if you have a specific routine and a general one which to unrelated things you woudn't get a error
13:55 drupek12 joined #perl6
13:56 pmurias found http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/have as a better example :)
13:56 lambdabot Title: have - Wiktionary
13:56 moritz diakopter: I do hope you have the means to /op yourself again ;)
13:56 diakopter pmurias: apologies; I'm still not understanding. Perhaps a concrete example of a specific one vs a general one where both had identical sigs
13:57 moritz diakopter: a simple "yes" would have been sufficient ;)
13:58 diakopter sure, sufficient, but not efficacious toward settling all curiousity
13:58 diakopter :D
13:58 pmurias meaning To possess, own, hold with sub have(Any $thing) is diffrent from To give birth to. sub have (Child $offspring) {}
13:59 Blwood joined #perl6
13:59 diakopter pmurias: ok.  in that example, those don't have identical signatures
14:00 pmurias if they would have indentical signatures you would get an compiler error with either default
14:00 pmurias * had identical
14:01 diakopter right... I wasn't claiming otherwise.
14:01 pmurias it's probably historical reason which dictate the default
14:01 diakopter my point was that why bother with the 'only' keyword as default, since it's redundant
14:01 diakopter I mean, it's either the only routine with that signature or it's not.
14:02 pmurias if you use only you forbid all others with the same short name
14:02 diakopter exactly... I'm not suggesting removing 'only' as an option.
14:03 moritz pmurias: only if exported to the same namespace, of course
14:03 pmurias if somebody else imposed proto on you withought your consent
14:03 bonesss joined #perl6
14:04 diakopter but how would *6 know whether to obey the proto or the only?
14:04 diakopter order of parsing appearance?
14:05 diakopter the proto, or the implied 'only', I mean.
14:05 pugs_svnbot r16998 | fglock++ | trunk:
14:05 pugs_svnbot : [kp6] added a very rough syntax highlighter
14:05 pugs_svnbot :  $ perl kp6-perl5.pl --do EmitHTML < t/01-sanity/01-tap.t > x.html
14:05 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/16998
14:05 lambdabot Title: Changeset 16998 - Pugs - Trac
14:05 fglock_ yay!
14:05 pmurias not sure
14:05 moritz fglock_++ #coding for -Ofun ;)
14:05 pmurias fglock_: nice
14:05 fglock_ code is blue, strings are green - that's all :P
14:06 moritz fglock_: no CSS?
14:06 diakopter fglock: what would it take to get kp6 to where I could set up autobuilds and evalbot for it?
14:06 moritz I can refine that later on ;)
14:06 fglock_ moritz: please do - it's a proof-of-concept :)
14:06 diakopter fglock: or is it already there?
14:06 fglock_ hmm
14:07 moritz I'm aboutto import some 800k lines into the irclogs - I don't know if it will work ;)
14:07 diakopter if you tell me it's possible, I'll go for it...
14:07 diakopter (without bugging you with questions about it, I mean) :)
14:07 fglock_ diakopter: it's possible :)
14:07 [particle] a kp6 evalbot? heh.
14:08 moritz ?kp6 3+4
14:08 lambdabot 7
14:08 moritz lambdabot: do you parse kp6?
14:08 fglock_ diakopter: kp6 has several compilation options - not sure how to handle that
14:08 diakopter moritz: er, what? :)
14:08 moritz diakopter: just /ignore me ;)
14:08 diakopter no.. :P
14:09 fglock_ but maybe --perl5rx is good enough
14:09 [particle] &kp6 :rx<perl5rx> ...
14:09 diakopter since pugs has the 'safe' filtering, I'll have to run it through pugs first... (same for the p6P(arrot) evalbot)
14:10 [particle] eh, just use a sensible default for now.
14:10 [particle] working > good
14:11 * diakopter puts on the sysadmin hat again
14:11 moritz how do I construct a timestamp with p5 I have have date and time given?
14:11 moritz s/I have/if I have/
14:12 diakopter Juerd: did you see the thing I posted about http://svn.pugscode.org/pugs
14:12 moritz diakopter: it looks quite cool
14:12 agentzh moritz: what's the default encoding settting in you mysql database?
14:13 diakopter moritz: I agree.  probably won't be terribly useful to many people for now.
14:13 moritz agentzh: how do I find out?
14:13 diakopter although
14:13 diakopter combined with firefox' plugin to edit a textarea externally, and multi-user editors such as subthaedit, it could be way cool.
14:14 diakopter as in... 5 people working on the same file at once... then someone yells "Checkpoint!", and it gets committed.
14:14 diakopter but of course that can be done without the browser interface.
14:14 diakopter I guess previously I was imagining making a browser-multiuser-editor.
14:14 pugs_svnbot r16999 | fglock++ | XXX-HACK-SVNBOT-SUBST-0.23065042210059483:
14:14 pugs_svnbot : [kp6] highlighter - variables are orange :P
14:14 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/16999
14:14 lambdabot Title: Changeset 16999 - Pugs - Trac
14:14 [particle] unless the multi-user editor is browser-based.
14:14 diakopter so nm
14:14 [particle] right.
14:15 diakopter wasn't someone mentioning an opensource multiuser editor?
14:15 fglock_ moritz: this is the command line for compiling the highlighter: $ perl mp6.pl < lib/KindaPerl6/Visitor/EmitHTML.pm > lib5/KindaPerl6/Visitor/EmitHTML.pm
14:15 diakopter or did I imagine that too.
14:15 [particle] gobby?
14:15 diakopter yeah, that.
14:16 * diakopter adds it to the list of things to learn about
14:16 [particle] oh, i think there's writewith.com
14:16 diakopter I just thought that having the multiuser editor in the browser would make it easier for casual spectators to observe/onramp.
14:17 pmurias mortiz: or add it to the Makefile and call make :)
14:17 pmurias * moritz
14:17 moritz pmurias: ... hm, what? did you mean fglock_ ?
14:17 diakopter watching skilled language implementors would be quite instructive.
14:17 moritz ETOOMANYTHREADSINIRC
14:18 Tene Tag the different threads with different prefix characters!
14:18 [particle] diakopter: how about saving it as a screencast, with the ability to playback later :)
14:18 moritz Tene: actually I thought about something like that...
14:18 Tene I've done that several times before.
14:18 moritz Tene: with thread merging and grafical display in client+logs
14:18 diakopter [particle]: good point.  now to convince all the committers to record all their editings... ;)
14:19 fglock_ pmurias: right :)
14:19 Tene There was a service that recorded terminal sessions for later playback... either through a web gui or on a terminal.
14:19 [particle] diakopter: if "capture for playback" is built into the editing tool, juts convince them to use the tool :)
14:20 pmurias fglock_: did it
14:20 diakopter oh.  I'm pretty sure Subthaedit has that.  but not everyone has a mac.  
14:21 agentzh moritz: dunno.
14:21 [particle] heck, "capture" is basically "commit". "playback" could use javascript to replay the diffs char-by-char.
14:21 pugs_svnbot r17000 | pmurias++ | trunk:
14:21 pugs_svnbot : kp6: lib5/KinaPerl6/Visitor/* in the Makefile
14:21 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17000
14:21 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17000 - Pugs - Trac
14:21 agentzh moritz: the bytes in the dumpfile seems to have been malformed...
14:22 moritz agentzh: I feared that :|
14:23 agentzh moritz: afaik, both the mysql database and the mysqldump utility uses an encoding...
14:23 agentzh i see a lot of bug reports over the net regarding mysql's encoding problems...
14:23 ProperNoun joined #perl6
14:23 * diakopter LOLz at [particle]'s suggestion to commit every single-char diff
14:23 pasteling "evalbot_r16998" at 193.200.132.135 pasted "Pugs build failure" (6 lines, 278B) at http://sial.org/pbot/26240
14:23 [particle] :)
14:23 diakopter oh yeah, the pugs build 'failures'
14:24 polettix joined #perl6
14:24 jhorwitz joined #perl6
14:24 moritz agentzh: and if you let my_decode in its current form run over the lines in the sql dump - does that produce sensible output for you?
14:25 Blwood_ joined #perl6
14:26 agentzh moritz: no, not all. even utf8 chars become a mess.
14:26 agentzh the mysqldump does an encoding already?
14:26 pasteling "fglock" at 201.25.37.25 pasted "highlighted t/01-sanity/01-tap.t" (1 line, 1.1K) at http://sial.org/pbot/26242
14:26 agentzh *encoding convertion
14:26 Blwood__ joined #perl6
14:27 agentzh mysqldump destroys everything.
14:27 moritz agentzh: probably, yes
14:27 Coke joined #perl6
14:27 agentzh moritz: have you specified an encoding setting while calling mysqldump?
14:27 moritz agentzh: should I write a simple mysqldump using perl and DBI?
14:28 agentzh moritz: that may help and may not :)
14:28 lisppaste3 joined #perl6
14:28 moritz agentzh: then you could be sure that the data arrives exactly as IrcLog.pm sees them
14:28 Coke Can someone look at the 4 tickets at http://rt.perl.org/rt3/Search/Results.htm​l?Query=Queue%20%3D%20'perl6'%20AND%20(St​atus%20%3D%20'open'%20OR%20Status%20%3D%2​0'new'%20OR%20Status%20%3D%20'stalled') and let me know if they are resolved, obsolete, etc?
14:28 agentzh moritz: but why not have a try?
14:28 moritz agentzh: no, I didn't
14:28 diakopter Coke: welcome
14:28 agentzh moritz: yes, it makes sense :)
14:29 agentzh moritz: be sure to use proper line breaks...while writing you own dumpers ;)
14:29 agentzh mysqldump makes my life harder while reading it using Perl ;)
14:30 agentzh very very long lines in the .sql file...
14:30 diakopter Coke: the first one is definitely long stale
14:30 moritz agentzh: let me first finish the colabti import (estimated 15min), then I'll write the dumper
14:30 agentzh moritz: no hurry :)
14:30 agentzh moritz: i'm going to bed anyway :)
14:30 agentzh moritz: see you tomorrow &
14:31 agentzh left #perl6
14:34 amnesiac joined #perl6
14:34 diakopter Coke: the 2nd one's diff is empty, to me...
14:36 diakopter Coke: and the 1st thing that guy uploaded uses tons of pasm, and isn't usable for the current languages/perl6
14:36 diakopter so I say close #1,#2
14:37 diakopter #3 can be closed
14:38 diakopter #4 uses the old P6Grammar (replaced by PGE, I thought)... so it can be closed...
14:39 pmurias left #perl6
14:40 pmurias joined #perl6
14:40 prism joined #perl6
14:44 pmurias fglock_: font tags are a thing of the past ;)
14:46 diakopter fglock_: the other reason I was suggesting making proto the default/implied is that nearly everything in a distribution of a *6 implementation will need to be proto.
14:46 diakopter thus, proto proto everywhere
14:51 unobe changed the nick to unobe_away
14:51 pmurias if you use the multi keyword you don't need a proto
14:53 fglock_ pmurias: I wonder if there is an existing css we could reuse
14:53 diakopter pmurias: are you suggesting all the code objects be marked 'multi'?
14:54 rlb3_work joined #perl6
14:56 daxim joined #perl6
14:57 fglock_ hey - we could have a kp6-AST highlighter too :)
14:57 [particle] fglock_: check with one of the nopaste engines
14:57 [particle] (ast highlighter)++ (ast highlighter)++ (ast highlighter)++
14:59 fglock_ [particle]: ok - but that will have to wait until after lunch
14:59 [particle] lunch++ :)
14:59 pmurias fglock_: I wonder if it is possible to have the <span class="AstNodeName">...</span> added automaticly
15:00 [particle] something has to emit it
15:01 pmurias its generic for all the AST nodes
15:02 pmurias bbs
15:03 fglock_ pmurias: sure
15:03 Juerd diakopter: Where did you post that? (No, I didn't see it)
15:04 moritz on IRC
15:04 moritz http://moritz.faui2k3.org/irclog/out.pl​?channel=perl6;date=2007-07-11#id_l987
15:05 lambdabot Title: IRC log for #perl6, 2007-07-11, http://tinyurl.com/252nfb
15:07 * moritz now imports old logs from colabti
15:07 moritz let's see if it slows down mysql too much
15:08 unobe_away changed the nick to unobe
15:09 Coke left #perl6
15:10 diakopter wow; I somehow entirely missed audreyt being here yesterday
15:17 unobe changed the nick to unobe_away
15:21 pugs_svnbot r17001 | moritz++ | trunk:
15:21 pugs_svnbot : [irclog]
15:21 pugs_svnbot :  * added TODO file (mostly with suggestions from [particle]++)
15:21 pugs_svnbot :  * added links to the colabti.de irc logs
15:21 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17001
15:21 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17001 - Pugs - Trac
15:26 pugs_svnbot r17002 | moritz++ | trunk:
15:26 pugs_svnbot : [irclog]
15:26 pugs_svnbot :  * added pugs_svnbot to the list of bots
15:26 pugs_svnbot :  * whitespace fixes in cgi/out.pl
15:26 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17002
15:26 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17002 - Pugs - Trac
15:26 yum_ joined #perl6
15:35 pugs_svnbot r17003 | moritz++ | trunk:
15:35 pugs_svnbot : [irclog] hilighting synopsis links with ranges like S01:12-23 (untested)
15:35 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17003
15:35 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17003 - Pugs - Trac
15:35 moritz ouch, it (or something else) broke S01:123 links
15:38 pugs_svnbot r17004 | moritz++ | trunk:
15:38 pugs_svnbot : [irclog] fixed previous commit
15:38 pugs_svnbot r17005 | moritz++ | trunk:
15:38 pugs_svnbot : [irclog] real fix this time, moritz--
15:38 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17005
15:38 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17005 - Pugs - Trac
15:43 diakopter Juerd: will feather's IP address change when you VM-ize it?
15:43 pugs_svnbot r17006 | moritz++ | trunk:
15:43 pugs_svnbot : [irclog] another fix of S\d\d:\d+ links, tested this time, moritz--
15:43 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17006
15:43 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17006 - Pugs - Trac
15:44 diakopter moritz++ :P
15:44 moritz anyway, now it works
15:44 moritz both locally and on the server
15:49 |Jedai| changed the nick to jedai
15:50 htmldeveloper joined #perl6
15:50 wilx joined #perl6
15:51 Boolahman joined #perl6
15:53 vel joined #perl6
15:54 moritz could somebody ( diakopter ?) please kickban Boolahman ?
15:54 moritz it's a damned spam bot
15:55 diakopter moritz: thanks for the hilight
15:55 lumi Looks like it's channeling Zippy
15:55 * moritz just cleared the logs
15:57 diakopter welcome, Vaclav
15:57 diakopter welcome Veljko
15:57 pmurias fglock_: the question is how to do it
15:59 htmldeveloper left #perl6
16:07 integral joined #perl6
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16:08 Eidolos_ changed the nick to Eidolo
16:08 Eidolo changed the nick to Eidolos
16:10 pmurias should i copy the mp6 test suit to kp6 some of it fails and it tests the runtime only as whole of it parses
16:10 pmurias ?
16:11 avar pmurias: (more testing)++ I suppose
16:11 avar pmurias: Working on kp6 packaging?
16:13 buetow joined #perl6
16:13 fglock_ pmurias: mp6 has some grammar implementation errors; it's documented in the roadmap under 'KindaPerl6 syntax review'
16:13 ProperNoun left #perl6
16:14 offby1 joined #perl6
16:14 moritz fglock_: once I have compiled EmitHTML.pm, how do I execute it?
16:14 fglock_ $ perl kp6-perl5.pl --do EmitHTML < t/01-sanity/01-tap.t > x.html
16:14 moritz fglock_: thanks
16:16 fglock_ pmurias: so the syntax in the tests needs fixing, too
16:17 justatheory joined #perl6
16:17 fglock_ but this can be postponed to phase 5
16:17 fglock_ which is to import Perl6-STD
16:19 fglock_ otoh, it is forcing the developers to use wrong syntax
16:20 avar someone please upload a sample html emit
16:20 cernd left #perl6
16:20 hkb_lab changed the nick to hakobe
16:20 moritz avar: just a sec
16:21 moritz avar: http://moritz.faui2k3.org/tmp/out.html (no <head> etc)
16:23 moritz fglock_: in EmitHTML.pm, return '$self->{' ~ $.name ~ '}'
16:23 moritz isn't that p5?
16:23 fglock_ yes :)
16:23 fglock_ it's a bug
16:24 stevan_ joined #perl6
16:25 fglock_ moritz++   # joined the kp6 crew
16:29 moritz does mp6 do ineterpolating strings?
16:29 moritz "<br />\n" and the like
16:31 fglock_ no, you need to call a subroutine for "\n"
16:31 fglock_ or maybe handle it with css
16:32 moritz I want the HTML code to look OK ;)
16:32 moritz not just the rendered ;)
16:32 fglock_  '{ package ' ~ $.name ~ '; ' ~ Main::newline()
16:32 fglock_ for perl5 code, I just run through perltidy
16:33 moritz aye
16:33 moritz there's tidy for html as well ;)
16:38 pmurias avar: packaging is an area i'm totaly ignorant in so no :)
16:39 pmurias perltidy++ #really good code formating
16:41 rintaro joined #perl6
16:41 pmurias moritz++: congrats on joining the kp6 team :)
16:42 moritz pmurias: I'm more on the HTML team ;-)
16:44 avar k
16:46 pmurias we use perltidy on the ast too
16:46 Blwood joined #perl6
16:49 kanru joined #perl6
16:50 pmurias regarding implementing Int,Str,etc. in perl6 this would push a lot of things into the emitter
16:52 bonesss joined #perl6
16:52 moritz look at http://moritz.faui2k3.org/tmp/out.html again - now it's with <span class="keyword">module</span> and the like, and the corresponding CSS
16:52 lambdabot Title: Auto Generated P6 code
16:52 moritz the header of the html file was manually added by me
16:53 moritz should I commit the changes to EmitHTML.pm?
16:53 pmurias fglock: is p6-in-p6 meant to be a complete rewrite or a evolution of kp6?
16:53 pmurias moritz: yes
16:53 moritz where should I add the corresponding style.css?
16:54 [particle] moritz: as a .pm file, or as a method in the emitter
16:56 [particle] i think we need an 'axle' language
16:56 [particle] ast transformation language
16:57 elmex joined #perl6
16:57 [particle] or whatever, like xslt
16:57 [particle] maybe astt is a better name
16:58 [particle] ah, nevermind.
16:58 moritz [particle]: or "TGE"?
16:58 moritz ;)
16:58 [particle] yeah. or kp6 :)
16:59 * [particle] is currently struggling with xpath
16:59 moritz I don't know what TGE exactly is about, but I have 'easy AST transformation' in the back of my mind
17:01 fglock_ pmurias: an evolution, I guess
17:01 pugs_svnbot r17007 | fglock++ | trunk:
17:01 pugs_svnbot : [kp6] Visitor::EmitAstHTML.pm - AST highlighter; pmurias++ # css idea  
17:01 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17007
17:01 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17007 - Pugs - Trac
17:01 [particle] tge is a way to transform trees in parrot. it's designed for PAST, but should work with any tree structure
17:01 dduncan joined #perl6
17:03 [particle] hrmm... i suppose you could emit the ast as xml and then use existing tools to xform to html, pdf, etc
17:03 fglock_ [particle]: nothingmuch has some ideas on adding attribute grammars to perl6
17:03 [particle] ah, great!
17:04 fglock_ I don't know how to get to it - I'd appreciate if somebody could write about that
17:04 pugs_svnbot r17008 | moritz++ | trunk:
17:04 pugs_svnbot : [kp6]
17:04 pugs_svnbot :  * modified EmitHTML.pm to output semantic HTML, eg <span
17:04 pugs_svnbot :    class="keyword">module</span> and the like
17:04 pugs_svnbot :  * added method css (which is not yet called)
17:04 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17008
17:04 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17008 - Pugs - Trac
17:08 fglock_ [particle]: is there a particular xml format for that, do you have an example?
17:09 [particle] fglock_: i don't have an example. standard tools like xslt allow you to manipulate xml and make it into html for example.
17:10 [particle] one needs to define a dtd that describes what the node hierarchy looks like
17:10 [particle] foo contains 0 or more bar... bar has optional attributes baz and quux, etc
17:11 [particle] the ast already has a well defined format
17:11 fglock_ moritz: take a look at EmitAstHTML output? I used the node class name as the span class name, is this ok?
17:11 [particle] it should be straightforward to translate that format to a matching xml representation
17:12 moritz fglock_: I thinks \w+ is allowed as class names
17:12 pugs_svnbot r17009 | pmurias++ | trunk:
17:12 pugs_svnbot : kp6:mp6 test suit
17:12 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17009
17:12 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17009 - Pugs - Trac
17:12 pasteling "evalbot_r17008" at 193.200.132.135 pasted "Pugs build failure" (6 lines, 278B) at http://sial.org/pbot/26245
17:12 moritz fglock_: when running kp6-perl5.pl on t/01-sanity/02-counter.t I get a syntax error
17:12 moritz fglock_: is that normal?
17:13 fglock_ moritz: looking
17:13 pmurias moritz: yes
17:14 fglock_ moritz: only t/kp6/ tests are supposed to run
17:14 pugs_svnbot r17010 | moritz++ | trunk:
17:14 pugs_svnbot : [kp6] EmitHTML.pm: a complete HTML file (with header and CSS) is emitted
17:14 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17010
17:14 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17010 - Pugs - Trac
17:14 pmurias and t/insanity
17:14 moritz fglock_: ok
17:15 pmurias except the last one
17:15 pmurias ;)
17:16 * [particle] hearts the diff browser
17:16 fglock_ pmurias++  # Quality Assurance Head
17:23 pugs_svnbot r17011 | moritz++ | trunk:
17:23 pugs_svnbot : [kp6] EmitHTML.pm: more tweaks, more newlines in output
17:23 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17011
17:23 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17011 - Pugs - Trac
17:27 ujwal joined #perl6
17:31 ujwal Hi any one can help me to help :)
17:31 ujwal on pugs and perl6
17:32 diakopter ujwal: what are your skills, and what would be fun for you to do?
17:32 devogon_ joined #perl6
17:33 moritz ujwal: just ask, maybe we can help you
17:33 pugs_svnbot r17012 | fglock++ | trunk:
17:33 pugs_svnbot : [kp6] added Main::mangle_ident() for mangling '::' out of namespaces
17:33 pugs_svnbot : - EmitAstHTML now uses mangle_ident() for emitting valid css
17:33 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17012
17:33 ujwal I just checked out pugs code
17:33 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17012 - Pugs - Trac
17:33 diakopter moritz: ujwal wants to contribute
17:33 ujwal I on win32
17:33 moritz diakopter: good to know ;)
17:33 fglock_ moritz: ::Val::Buf is now Val_58__58_Buf
17:33 ujwal rx:g
17:33 ujwal is not working
17:34 ujwal my tests are not working
17:34 moritz fglock_: that should do for class="..." attributes
17:35 moritz ujwal: what do you mean with "not working"? it's normal that some (actually quite a lot) don't work
17:35 ujwal ok
17:36 moritz that's why we are still working on different perl6 implementations ;)
17:36 ujwal #is $str.subst(rx:g:i/L/,'p'), 'heppo', '.. with multiple adverbs';
17:37 ujwal rx:g is a infinite loop
17:37 ujwal i tried it in pugs.exe interactively
17:37 moritz ujwal: which backend are you using? native haskell?
17:38 ujwal GHC 6.6.1
17:39 ujwal I have followed instruactions in the INSTALL
17:39 fglock_ moritz: we can now cross-link the highlighted code to the highlighted AST :)
17:39 fglock_ s/can/could/
17:41 diakopter ?eval $str = 'foo'; $str.=subst(rx:g:i/o/,'a'); say $str;
17:41 evalbot_r16971 changed the nick to evalbot_r17012
17:41 evalbot_r17012 Error: No such method in class Str: &subst
17:42 pugs_svnbot r17013 | pmurias++ | trunk:
17:42 pugs_svnbot : kp6:
17:42 pugs_svnbot : $object->method -> $object->{_dispatch}($object,...} sugar
17:42 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17013
17:42 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17013 - Pugs - Trac
17:43 ujwal its line 13 from pugs\t\builtins\strings\subst.t
17:43 weinig joined #perl6
17:43 fglock_ pmurias: you could call that something like MOBridge
17:44 fglock_ pmurias++
17:44 moritz ujwal: it produces an error for me, but it doesn't loop
17:45 ujwal my compiled version is in a loop
17:45 fglock_ or Perl5Bridge, depending from which side you look
17:45 moritz ujwal: wich pugs revision are using?
17:46 moritz appears in the output of pugs -v
17:46 ujwal svn 16996
17:47 moritz ouch, I just noticed that my last pugs built is about 100 revisions behind
17:47 fglock_ regex loops are most likely a perl5-side fault (PCR)
17:47 moritz fglock_: aye
17:47 moritz should I @tell agentzh?
17:48 fglock_ my pugs is 2500 revisions old :P
17:48 fglock_ yes!
17:48 moritz @tell agentzh there's a new regex bug most likely introduced by PCR modifications: t/builtins/strings/subst.t test 3 is looping
17:48 lambdabot Consider it noted.
17:48 moritz ujwal++
17:49 fglock_ MagicFixingGnomes++
17:49 moritz *lol*
17:50 moritz echo "everyhting else \t\t\t\tMagicFixingGnome" >> SLAVES
17:50 ujwal error in line 125 of pugs\t\data_types\array.t
17:51 moritz ?eval my $a = "hello"; $a~~s:g:i/l/p/; $a
17:51 evalbot_r17012 changed the nick to evalbot_r17013
17:51 evalbot_r17013 \"heppo"
17:51 ujwal is @array12[*-1],'e', "indexing from the end [-1]";
17:51 moritz ?eval my $a = "hello"; $a.susbst(m:g:i/l/,  'm'); $a
17:51 evalbot_r17013 Error: No such method in class Str: &susbst
17:51 moritz ?eval my $a = "hello"; $a.subst(m:g:i/l/,  'm'); $a
17:51 evalbot_r17013 Error: No such method in class Str: &subst
17:52 moritz ujwal: aye, that's a newer change that is NYI in pugs
17:53 moritz ujwal: you're welcome to fix them, of course ;)
17:53 ujwal which one is the stable version with i can compile and tweek
17:53 moritz well, current pugs should compile
17:53 moritz it's just the test suite that fails
17:53 ujwal ya
17:55 ujwal any pointers to understand the code
17:56 moritz http://dev.pugscode.org/ has a few pages on the interals
17:56 Psyche^ joined #perl6
17:56 lambdabot Title: Pugs - Trac
17:56 moritz s/interals/internals/
17:56 moritz and there's docs/Pugs/Hack*
17:57 moritz ujwal: you can just comment out the looping tests and run the rest
17:57 ujwal ya i did that and tests stoped line 125 of array.t
17:58 moritz sorry, gotta go %
17:59 moritz s/%/&/
17:59 ujwal thanks and I am it ...
18:00 ujwal s{it}{http://dev.pugscode.org/wiki/}
18:11 diakopter ujwal: do you have a pugs commit bit for subversion?
18:11 pugs_svnbot r17014 | pmurias++ | trunk:
18:11 pugs_svnbot : kp6: DispatchSugar: sugar_off
18:11 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17014
18:11 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17014 - Pugs - Trac
18:11 Psyche^ changed the nick to Patterner
18:12 pmurias fglock: i wrote DispatchSugar with the intention of using it to make MO.pm more readable
18:12 pmurias i hope it's ok if i do it
18:12 ujwal diakopter: no I don't have
18:26 diakopter ujwal: send me a private message with your desired username and an email address, please, and you'll receive the invitation
18:26 pugs_svnbot r17015 | pmurias++ | trunk:
18:26 pugs_svnbot : kp6: DispatchSugar gets test via run_tests.sh
18:26 pugs_svnbot : sprinkled a view sugar() calls in MOP.pm
18:26 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17015
18:26 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17015 - Pugs - Trac
18:31 BooK joined #perl6
18:33 diakopter ujwal: invitation sent! welcome aboard
18:34 ujwal thank u :)
18:37 rindolf joined #perl6
18:39 diakopter moritz: you still around?
18:54 buetow joined #perl6
19:03 beppu joined #perl6
19:06 moritz diakopter: for just one minute, yes
19:10 moritz now gone for good &
19:26 nothingmuch [particle]: the basic idea i had is that an attribute grammer is kinda like a context sensitive role
19:26 nothingmuch they inherit other attribute grammers in the same way that roles inherit roles
19:27 nothingmuch each class can do an attribute grammar in a similar way that a class does a role
19:27 nothingmuch however, these methods are never accessible on the outside
19:27 nothingmuch you need to instantiate the attribute grammar over a root object
19:27 nothingmuch e.g. AverageDifference->new( :root($tree) );
19:28 nothingmuch and then you can call the attributes of the root on that
19:28 nothingmuch and all the methods defined in the attribute grammar instances of the classes that play part in $tree are visible within that call chain
19:28 nothingmuch a somewhat crude perl 5 example is available here: http://nothingmuch.woobling.org/MO/t/ag.t
19:29 Juerd diakopter: No, feather's IP will not change when I virtualize it.
19:32 [particle] nm: i see. so that's the semantics, and then a syntax layer needs to be defined to use it.
19:32 [particle] well, to make it sugary, anyway
19:33 [particle] nothingmuch: what is 'bestowed'?
19:34 nothingmuch it's the other side of inherited
19:34 nothingmuch a child has an inherited attr
19:34 nothingmuch so it calls it on itself
19:34 nothingmuch which calls back to the parent to give it the value
19:35 nothingmuch the instance of the method in the parent's metamodel that has that body is under that category
19:35 drupek12 joined #perl6
19:35 nothingmuch also note that parent<->child relations are *very* crude
19:35 nothingmuch due to lack of typing
19:35 nothingmuch to search for a parent the call stack is walked
19:35 nothingmuch and each object is asked, like in the dr. seuss book, are you my mother?
19:36 nothingmuch the default impl is to search inside the top level attrs of the parent for the child
19:36 nothingmuch and this parent <-> child relationship is cached in the attribute grammar instance
19:36 [particle] i see: "here, son, program this vcr for me to tape tonight's pbs special."
19:36 nothingmuch fror the syntax i figured something like this:
19:37 nothingmuch (writing nopaste)
19:37 bonesss joined #perl6
19:39 [particle] so, with roles, they're only important during construction, not runtime. what's the equivalent for an ast? is an ast always in the construction phase, so attribute grammars are always available?
19:40 nothingmuch ast? you mean ag?
19:41 nothingmuch fwiw, i designed the MO metamodel so that adding this functionality is a matter of a simple set of macros to decalre an AG, and some intermediate meta programming
19:41 nothingmuch it's fairly well supported to invent your own concept of OO
19:41 nothingmuch the way it's done is that the responder interface is wrapped (in my implementation, could be augmented in any other way) in a context sensitive one
19:41 nothingmuch which checks whether or not we are currently in the scope of an attribute grammar
19:42 nothingmuch and if so, it makes the extra methods visible
19:42 nothingmuch the other bits that had to be programmed is the code gen for bestowing attrs
19:42 nothingmuch the parent finding logic
19:42 nothingmuch and the AG merging (reuses most of the role code)
19:42 nothingmuch Sial.org
19:42 nothingmuch eep
19:42 pasteling "nothingmuch" at 84.110.255.235 pasted "ag mockup" (1 line, 9B) at http://sial.org/pbot/26246
19:42 nothingmuch shyte
19:42 pasteling "nothingmuch" at 84.110.255.235 pasted "ag mockup" (27 lines, 463B) at http://sial.org/pbot/26247
19:42 nothingmuch there we go
19:43 nothingmuch Tree should has $.value;
19:43 nothingmuch wait, 'm actually missing some more code
19:43 pugs_svnbot r17016 | pmurias++ | trunk:
19:43 pugs_svnbot : kp6: fixing kp6 back after my previous commit
19:43 pugs_svnbot : TODO() - confesses
19:43 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17016
19:43 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17016 - Pugs - Trac
19:45 [particle] do you need to specify in class Tree that global_average is an inherited method, or is it implicitly inherited and you're just putting it there for clarification.
19:47 [particle] i suppose "has $.value;" belongs there somewhere
19:50 pasteling "nothingmuch" at 84.110.255.235 pasted "ag mockup" (70 lines, 1.8K) at http://sial.org/pbot/26248
19:50 ujwal changed the nick to [ujwal]
19:50 nothingmuch here, that'w a much better example
19:51 nothingmuch method global_average : inherited;
19:51 nothingmuch that's what I figured
19:51 [ujwal] changed the nick to [_ujwal_]
19:52 nothingmuch [particle]: k, i have to go shower real quick
19:52 nothingmuch i hope that makes more sense
19:52 nothingmuch but what I really care about is the metaprogramming level
19:52 nothingmuch any syntax will do
19:53 nothingmuch i'll make an example of an inherited ag
19:53 nothingmuch later
19:53 nothingmuch that's really funky because you get a dual tree of inheritence
19:53 nothingmuch and it still works out cleanly
19:54 [_ujwal_] left #perl6
19:55 [particle] thanks, that helps.
20:13 xerox joined #perl6
20:16 awwaiid whats going on in here?
20:19 DarkWolf84 joined #perl6
20:20 fglock_ pmurias: re MO.pm more readable - I think the best approach would be to port MO to mp6 (when/if possible)
20:20 offby1 nobody here but us zombie processes.
20:25 awwaiid ooo... zombies...
20:26 Aankhen`` joined #perl6
20:27 pmurias fglock_: i'm not really sure about it
20:27 pmurias it would at large be pushing stuff into the emitter
20:28 pmurias * largly
20:28 silug so is Pugs::Emitter::Rule::Parsec just expected to be broken?
20:29 silug it does use Pugs::Grammar::MiniPerl6;
20:29 silug as near as i can tell, that doesn't exist
20:29 silug unless i'm just being slower than usual
20:30 pmurias Pugs::Emitter::Rule::Parsec is in my knowledge abandoned
20:30 pmurias fglock_: i think we should add bootstraping kp6 into the roadmap
20:31 fglock_ pmurias: that's ok
20:31 fglock_ when in the timeline do you think it should be done?
20:31 pmurias it would allow using cool stuff from previous milestones in the next ones
20:32 fglock_ silug: it's been abandoned for some time
20:32 fglock_ pmurias: but it would also result in a very slow compiler, since kp6 is very unoptimized
20:32 silug i wonder why my fedora package just picked up a new dependency then
20:33 pmurias i don't think speed of anything other then the parser would make a difference
20:33 silug so i should be able to just remove it from the package and nobody will notice?
20:34 pmurias fglock_: --perl5rx emitts some code faster
20:34 fglock_ silug: yes; it is there waiting for someone to further develop pcr-on-haskell
20:35 fglock_ pmurias: hmm - makes sense
20:36 pmurias any way we could cheat a bit and cache parse results
20:37 pmurias would make a huge difference on some file like EmitPerl5 which are composed of many different compliation units
20:38 [particle] md5 each compunit and compare against cache key?
20:39 pmurias yes
20:39 fglock_ hmm - caching is tricky, we are allowed to modify the grammar
20:40 fglock_ caching must be lexical, probably
20:40 [particle] that would have to invalidate the cache
20:43 pmurias caching it's not nessesary for doing the bootstrap
20:44 pmurias compiling Grammar.pm takes over 3 minutes on my computer waiting another minute wouldn't make a big difference :)
20:46 pmurias i'll polish and checkin the version of kp6-perl5.pl shows which which parts of the compiler use up the most cycles
20:47 pmurias what is the recomended way of conditionaly use'ing a module?
20:47 pmurias (in p5)
20:48 pmurias Time::HiRes
20:48 [particle] BEGIN { require 'foo.pm' if bar; foo->import; }
20:52 pmurias used if ($profile) {require Time::HiRes;Time::HiRes->import(qw(time));}
20:56 pmurias dosn't seem to work :(
21:01 pugs_svnbot r17017 | pmurias++ | trunk:
21:01 pugs_svnbot : kp6: a version of kp6-perl5 with profiling
21:01 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17017
21:01 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17017 - Pugs - Trac
21:02 Blwood joined #perl6
21:03 pasteling "evalbot_r17016" at 193.200.132.135 pasted "Pugs build failure" (6 lines, 278B) at http://sial.org/pbot/26252
21:03 weirdo_ joined #perl6
21:03 weirdo_ can i run p5 code under haskell?
21:04 weirdo_ uh, sorry
21:04 weirdo_ can i run p5 code under pugs?
21:04 diakopter weirdo_: sure
21:04 diakopter but it effectively just passes it to p5
21:04 diakopter ./perl5.x.x I  mean
21:04 weirdo_ that's bad :(
21:04 diakopter do you mean *only* p5 code? or a mixture of p5 and p6
21:05 Tene weirdo_: what's bad about that?
21:05 weirdo_ i need to work around my code's circular references
21:05 pmurias did i implement the profiling right?
21:05 weirdo_ p5 is pure-refcnt
21:06 weirdo_ guess i'll have to learn p6 :)
21:06 weirdo_ bye
21:06 weirdo_ left #perl6
21:08 lumi joined #perl6
21:08 fglock joined #perl6
21:09 pmurias fglock: re bootstrap i suppose doing it before or after phase 5 are the options
21:10 fglock agreed - after phase 5 would be the right time
21:13 pmurias althought the bootstrap is trivial compared to phase 5
21:14 pmurias and it could sort of test the compiler and give handy things such as multis to work with
21:14 fglock how about this:
21:15 fglock create a directory for 6-in-6, and (mostly) duplicate the kp6 structure there
21:15 fglock then use kp6 to compile 6-in-6
21:15 fglock which is almost the same as bootstrapping, but it doesn't matter if it fails
21:16 pmurias joined #perl6
21:17 pmurias sounds the only resonable way
21:17 fglock cool
21:18 ofer joined #perl6
21:18 pmurias modifing the compiler in place using itself was pretty horid
21:19 fglock i know :)
21:21 pmurias it still bootstrapping but with a rather nicer pair of boots
21:22 fglock (still here)
21:22 fglock heh
21:22 pmurias why do you use multiple nicks at a time
21:22 pmurias ?
21:23 fglock i guess it's an auto-reconnect thing, i'm on wifi and it changes networks somtimes
21:23 fglock sometimes
21:24 jedai joined #perl6
21:26 pmurias i see
21:32 fglock brb
21:39 cernd joined #perl6
21:41 pugs_svnbot r17018 | pmurias++ | trunk:
21:41 pugs_svnbot : kp6: a bit more sugar Method ->'ed
21:41 pugs_svnbot : infix:<!=>
21:41 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17018
21:41 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17018 - Pugs - Trac
21:42 mr_ank joined #perl6
21:46 pmurias will finish changing MOP.pm tommorow
21:46 pmurias sleep&
21:46 pmurias left #perl6
22:14 fglock left #perl6
22:20 unobe_away changed the nick to unobe
22:29 rashakil joined #perl6
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22:32 ofer joined #perl6
22:32 nothingmuch [particle]: will you be attending YAPC::EU?
22:32 [particle] not this year :(
22:33 nothingmuch bummer
22:33 [particle] i'll be attending trek::nepal::annapurna
22:33 nothingmuch oh wow
22:33 nothingmuch better choice =)
22:33 nothingmuch how high will you be going?
22:34 [particle] 16 or 17k ft
22:34 nothingmuch do you need a special permit for that?
22:34 nothingmuch is that already glaciated, btw?
22:34 [particle] no. there's a circuit trail.
22:35 [particle] no, too tropical for that. the mountains are much taller than the valleys we'll be walking in :)
22:35 nothingmuch how long?
22:35 [particle] 25 days total
22:35 nothingmuch cool
22:35 ofer joined #perl6
22:36 justatheory joined #perl6
22:37 nothingmuch either way, my talk
22:37 nothingmuch when it's written
22:37 nothingmuch should be interesting for you =)
22:37 nothingmuch i'll be sure to email you a link when I'm done
22:38 [particle] thank you
22:38 nothingmuch though I thought it'd be fun to talk IRL, too
22:38 [particle] yeah, it would. maybe next year.
22:38 nothingmuch what are you kidding me? perl 6 will be out by then!
22:38 [particle] sorry, next christmas :)
22:42 [particle] we need to start planning the release party. where is the most perlish place to have it?
22:55 marmic joined #perl6
22:55 ofer0 joined #perl6
22:59 ofer0 joined #perl6
23:01 Blwood joined #perl6
23:02 meppl good night
23:05 nothingmuch [particle]: in an onion field in the sahara
23:18 justatheory joined #perl6
23:26 xern_ joined #perl6
23:29 thorat joined #perl6
23:31 fglock_ joined #perl6
23:31 Limbic_Region joined #perl6
23:32 fglock_ $neighbour++   # open wifi :)
23:32 pugs_svnbot r17019 | Darren_Duncan++ | trunk:
23:32 pugs_svnbot : ext/Muldis-DB/ : updated Core.pod to add the generic ordinal operators
23:32 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17019
23:32 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17019 - Pugs - Trac
23:33 pasteling "evalbot_r17018" at 193.200.132.135 pasted "Pugs build failure" (6 lines, 278B) at http://sial.org/pbot/26258
23:43 devogon joined #perl6
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