Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2007-07-15

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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00:42 Limbic_Region hrm - if dmake broke then like nmake will too
00:42 Limbic_Region :-(
00:42 Limbic_Region oh wait, it appears all that is needed is a realclean
00:43 Limbic_Region diakopter - you around
00:44 Limbic_Region I am going to email maxcdo
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00:47 diakopter I'm around
00:47 Limbic_Region salutations Schwern
00:48 Limbic_Region diakopter - what were you going to ask maxcdo?
00:48 diakopter nothing worth anything
00:48 diakopter you figured it out I see
00:48 Limbic_Region oh, was wondering if you had some advice
00:48 Limbic_Region well, it hasn't finished building yet
00:48 Limbic_Region but it didn't bomb out with unsatisfied dependency this time
00:51 Limbic_Region so where did the 6.6.1 dependency come from?  Was there a major checkin or something?
00:51 diakopter audreyt bumped it
00:51 Limbic_Region I ask because I worked 53 hours this week even though I took a day off
00:51 * Limbic_Region was a bit busy
00:51 diakopter I don't recall the exact reason
00:51 diakopter it's in the logs
00:51 Limbic_Region oh, wonder if the pad refactor went back in
00:52 diakopter I don't think so
00:53 Limbic_Region hrm
00:53 Limbic_Region The recent commits link of pugscode.org and the RSS are both not working
00:53 diakopter urgh
00:54 Limbic_Region is there a way to get just the commit message for like the last 20 checkins from svn?
00:54 Limbic_Region my svn fu is weak
00:55 Limbic_Region oh, pugs did build after the realclean
00:55 diakopter http://dev.pugscode.org/timeline
00:56 Limbic_Region that's not loading here
00:56 diakopter it is here...
00:56 diakopter dns problem?
00:56 Limbic_Region no, it just took like 20 seconds
00:56 diakopter 8.61s here :)
00:57 Limbic_Region thanks btw
00:57 diakopter if you haven't sent that email to that person, tell him/her to join us here! :)
00:58 diakopter er, ask, not tell.
00:59 Limbic_Region oh, already sent
00:59 Limbic_Region but yeah
00:59 Limbic_Region I got the email from the ticket
01:01 Limbic_Region oh, the 6.6.1 dependency was for date/time package apparently
01:01 Limbic_Region but lots of other code cleanup as the result of a utility
01:01 Limbic_Region audreyt++
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01:06 diakopter Limbic_Region: TimToady added a TODO earlier, informally
01:08 diakopter spec the roles that will be assumed by the built-in types, immutable and mutable, container and value.
01:09 diakopter which I guess will largely be a reorg/fleshing of S29
01:10 Limbic_Region I'm a bit too tired to look now but perhaps tomorrow
01:10 * Limbic_Region worked 38 hours straight and then after a night's sleep just pulled another full day (on Saturday)
01:10 diakopter icky
01:11 diakopter overtime++
01:11 Limbic_Region yeah - especially after I told them from the beginning that no amount of testing was going to get the build blessed for production
01:11 Limbic_Region actually, overtime--
01:11 Limbic_Region I work for the government where the overtime is capped at a certain rate - so if you already make more than that rate, they pay you less per hour than regular time
01:11 Limbic_Region comptime++
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01:38 * diakopter requests another request for comment request, for fun.
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04:13 spinclad diakopter++
04:13 diakopter 'course, now the banlist is ****flooded.
04:14 diakopter can only ops see the banlist?
04:15 spinclad dunno... sure, can't print a banlist like that without *'s, it weren't right
04:17 spinclad no, i can see it too
04:17 diakopter <sigh>
04:18 spinclad but at least the entity is not itself present here
04:19 diakopter I think that works.
04:19 spinclad that looks good ... or *.biz even
04:19 diakopter lol
04:19 * diakopter checks the irclogs for fun
04:22 diakopter sure enough, since the beginning of my logs... all .biz PTRs have been part-spammers or PTR-obsceners.
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04:30 spinclad compugoat and this guy
04:33 spinclad anyway, /me to bed.  &
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04:48 Aankhen`` diakopter: PTR?
04:48 Aankhen`` Pointy Throated Rodent?
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05:11 diakopter Aankhen``: I may be wrong in assuming that's where ircd gets those hostnames, but I was referring to the "reverse DNS lookup" or PTR ("pointer") record for a given IP address.
05:18 Aankhen`` diakopter: Ah.
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06:38 pugs_svnbot r17063 | Darren_Duncan++ | trunk:
06:38 pugs_svnbot : ext/Muldis-DB/ : updated Core.pod to add the (large) initial complement of tuple and relation operators
06:38 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17063
06:38 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17063 - Pugs - Trac
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07:01 devbot6 dev: Ticket #26 (defect closed): [BUG] 'dmake' broken on Win32 with GHC 6.6.1 <http://dev.pugscode.org/ticket/26#comment:1>
07:03 devbot6 dev: Ticket #26 (defect updated): [BUG] 'dmake' broken on Win32 with GHC 6.6.1 <http://dev.pugscode.org/ticket/26#comment:2>
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07:56 protoscript Hey guys
07:56 jrockway hi protoscript
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07:56 protoscript I was wondering, why did perl6 decide to make operators special things instead of just methods... that prevents using the hyperoperators syntax as a map
07:58 jrockway what do you mean?
07:59 jrockway (maybe nopaste what you'd like to write)
08:00 dduncan perl operators are just a special syntax for methods, for the most part
08:00 protoscript ok
08:00 protoscript it's just one line
08:00 protoscript @bad_employees >>fire<<
08:00 lambdabot Unknown command, try @list
08:01 protoscript it complains that fire should be an operator
08:01 dduncan try spelling it .fire
08:01 protoscript ah ok
08:01 dduncan ?eval @bad_employees >>.fire<<
08:01 evalbot_r17041 Error: ␤Unexpected ">>."␤expecting operator
08:01 dduncan may need work
08:01 protoscript < 1 2 3 > >>.say<<
08:02 protoscript doesn't work either
08:02 dduncan at least you can use the dot form in other places that take operators
08:02 protoscript I was really curious regarding the philosophy behind the decision
08:02 dduncan eg, $foo .bar $baz;
08:02 dduncan er
08:02 protoscript since I thought one of the greatest achievements of ruby, (smalltalk too?) was to make "operators" just funny named methods
08:03 protoscript well that is cool too
08:03 dduncan I was trying for the analogy for $foo += $bar, but replacing + with .meth
08:03 dduncan $foo .meth= $bar
08:03 dduncan maybe?
08:03 protoscript I could never stomach perl < 6 but perl6 seems really great
08:03 dduncan perhaps reduction syntax works .... $foo = [.meth] @bar
08:03 audreyt ?eval [1, 2, 3]>>.sqrt
08:04 evalbot_r17041 (1.0, 1.4142135623730951, 1.7320508075688772)
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08:04 audreyt you only need one side of >>
08:04 audreyt because .method is not binary op
08:04 protoscript I'm silly regarding aesthetics and -> syntax and the oo stuff in perl5 just grated on my nerves
08:04 dduncan audreyt, since you're here, I'll say that everything ran to completion for me yesterday ... build and smoke completed with success ... perhaps a bit faster than my last try also
08:04 audreyt ?eval <1 2 3>>.sqrt
08:04 protoscript ?eval [1,2,3] >>.say
08:04 evalbot_r17041 Bool::True
08:04 evalbot_r17041 Error: ␤Unexpected ">>."␤expecting operator
08:04 audreyt ?eval <1 2 3>>>.sqrt
08:05 evalbot_r17041 (1.0, 1.4142135623730951, 1.7320508075688772)
08:05 audreyt ?eval <1 2 3>>>.say
08:05 evalbot_r17041 OUTPUT[2␤3␤1␤] (Bool::True, Bool::True, Bool::True)
08:05 audreyt dduncan: cool!
08:05 audreyt protoscript: note that it says "2\n3\n1\n"
08:05 audreyt because hyperops runs, conceptually, in parallel
08:05 dduncan audreyt, what do you see as the main preconditions now for a 6.28.0 release?
08:05 audreyt so the order of side effects, such as input/output, is not guaranteed
08:05 audreyt dduncan: why, mergeback of my pugs-mo local branch
08:05 protoscript yeah !
08:05 dduncan so that isn't what you did yesterday
08:06 dduncan any eta for that?
08:06 protoscript very interesting audreyt
08:06 audreyt no it isn't. yesterday was just excising dead code
08:06 audreyt playing with HPC, etc
08:06 audreyt I think my condition is improving quite a bit this week
08:06 audreyt so maybe I'll try hacking for real next week... but no promises
08:06 protoscript where is the best place online to get docs rearding pugs perl6?
08:06 audreyt mostly it's incessant sleep
08:07 dduncan try pugscode.org
08:07 protoscript hope you feel better audreyt :-)
08:07 dduncan yes, be well
08:07 audreyt protoscript: dev.pugscode.org perhaps?
08:07 audreyt www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/ too
08:07 protoscript thank you
08:08 audreyt np :)
08:08 * audreyt fades, unsurprisingly, back into sleep &
08:08 dduncan and I"m about to enter sleep myself
08:08 dduncan 1am
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08:08 protoscript are there any cute web frameworks written in perl6?
08:10 jrockway i'm sure there is some jifty6 floating around somewhere (at least on slides)
08:10 jrockway audreyt would be the person to ask though
08:10 * jrockway likes his perl5 web framework ;)
08:10 protoscript ok thanks jrockway
08:10 protoscript what framework is that?
08:10 jrockway Catalyst
08:11 protoscript Do you think the codebase could be improved porting it to 6?
08:11 jrockway definitely
08:11 jrockway if perl6 didn't exist, we could get by with perl5
08:11 protoscript (I mean theoretically, since its probably a giant undertaking)
08:11 jrockway but there are some perl5-isms that hurt us
08:11 jrockway like slow method calls
08:12 protoscript I've heard from the experts at canonical that catalyst is the only dynamic lang web framework period that gets orm rights
08:12 jrockway we are going to port it to Moose soon, which should at least make the code look nicer
08:12 protoscript -s
08:12 * protoscript googles moose
08:12 jrockway Catalyst doesn't force any ORM on you, but a lot of people use DBIx::Class
08:12 jrockway and I agree that it gets ORM-ing done right
08:13 protoscript I do python dev for money
08:13 jrockway the nice feature is that you can say my $something = $rs->search({ some conditions }); ...; $something->search( { more conditions } )
08:13 jrockway everything is pretty lazy, so you'll get an efficent query that way (and readable code of course)
08:15 jrockway protoscript: moose is at http://search.cpan.org/dist/Moose/lib/Moose.pm
08:15 lambdabot Title: Moose - A complete modern object system for Perl 5 - search.cpan.org
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08:15 protoskript grumblez
08:17 jrockway i have a few catalyst talks at www.jrock.us if you're interested
08:17 jrockway (the YAPC::NA::2007 ones are better than the YAPC::Asia::2007 ones IMHO)
08:17 protoskript absolutely thanks
08:18 jrockway jifty is another perl5 framework that is more integrated and magical
08:18 jrockway it's pretty cool if you're into that kind of thing ;)
08:19 protoskript yeah it looked super-cute
08:19 protoskript just have so much trouble with perl5 oo and some of the syntax
08:19 * protoskript is a shameful languae snob
08:19 jrockway fair enough
08:20 jrockway the object system kind of takes a while to grasp
08:20 jrockway once you are familiar with the conventions (and Class::C3), it's quite usable
08:20 protoskript do u program in perl professionally?
08:20 jrockway but if you come from a (say) java background where everything is ultra-specific ("private int foo") it might not be your cup of tea
08:21 jrockway protoscript: yeah
08:21 protoskript My background is javascript
08:22 protoskript Which made me the subject of much derision in 1999 when I tried to explain that I could write great server-side apps in javascript
08:22 protoskript "Why not just use vbscript?" o_O
08:23 jrockway javascript is a fine programming language
08:23 jrockway the "rhino on rails" might give it some additonal credibility
08:23 protoskript Agreed. No one really understood that back in the 90s
08:23 protoskript But AJAX has given it much more cred
08:23 jrockway exactly
08:24 jrockway what's funny is that AJAX was technically possible long before it became popular
08:24 protoskript for career reasons i had to move to C#, then ruby then python which I use today
08:24 protoskript I know I used to do ajax-ish stuff in 2000
08:24 protoskript I had a chat room that integrated with a dialer system for a call center
08:25 protoskript just took google to have everyone say ':ok i guess it is reasonable"
08:25 jrockway yeah
08:25 jrockway same for python too :)
08:26 protoskript indeed. ever see prothon back in the day?
08:26 protoskript that was an incredibly awesome language
08:26 protoskript so sad that it was ditched and now i cant even find material on it
08:29 jrockway no, didn't see it
08:29 protoskript It was a prototype-based python that fixed some of the goofy python decisions
08:30 protoskript aaaanyways sorrt for the languages tangent
08:30 jrockway now called mochikit ;)
08:30 protoskript haha
08:34 jrockway gnite :)
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08:47 protoskript hmmm catalyst looks really nice
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10:36 ludan hola
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10:49 Nadine hello
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11:59 TimToady well, got to .is safely if anyone is listening.  or even if not...
12:00 Alias_ .is?
12:00 Alias_ Iceland?
12:00 Alias_ Isreal?
12:00 Alias_ Israel
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12:01 TimToady actually, Iceland
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12:18 * araujo doesn't even know where it is that
12:21 Alias_ araujo: half way between canada and finland
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12:30 araujo oh.. mm
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13:27 moritz TimToady: how do you like Iceland? I always wanted to visit it ;)
13:28 TimToady there's a lot of lava
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13:29 moritz ;)
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14:06 * moritz tries to compile ghc 6.6.1 from Debian testing for sarge
14:06 moritz do we _really_ need 6.6.1? ;)
14:07 masak ;)
14:07 masak I'd complain as well, but my compilation worked :P
14:07 moritz let's see if mine does
14:07 moritz at least all build-dependencies are in etch
14:08 moritz or at least as debian/control lists them
14:08 masak I did it from source, that usually works fine on CentOS
14:08 moritz masak: did you have to update supplementary packages like libghc6-network-dev or the like?
14:08 masak moritz: nope
14:09 moritz masak: that's good news ;)
14:13 moritz compiling ghc takes quite a while - I wonder if it bootstraps itself
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14:16 masak moritz: don't remember, but it wouldn't surprise me
14:21 * moritz needs more RAM and a faster maschine ;)
14:39 devbot6 dev: Ticket #27 (defect updated): make realclean rebuilds the makefile instead of make-ing realclean <http://dev.pugscode.org/ticket/27#comment:1>
14:40 diakopter moritz: it does bootstrap itself with a downloaded binary on macintel (using [Mac]port[s])
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14:44 diakopter moritz: but it still took an hour on dicore2Ghz/2GBram. :(  or 2 hours.
14:45 moritz diakopter: thanks, I'll just wait until it's finished - no hurry to rebuild pugs ;)
14:46 diakopter moritz: which platform/architecture have you?
14:47 moritz diakopter: pentium M (i386) with debian
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14:50 diakopter moritz: ah.  Lenny has 6.6.1...
14:53 moritz diakopter: yes, and I'm recompiling its source packages
14:53 diakopter ah :D
14:54 moritz diakopter: because the binary package in lenny has dependencies on a new libc6 (which conflicts with a "base" package)
14:54 moritz but that is an automatically pulled in dependency, not a necessary one
14:55 diakopter moritz: I see. would you mind posting a tiny howto here for how to do that for a stock Etch system?
14:55 diakopter (I mean, I hope it's tiny)
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15:02 moritz diakopter: sure, just a sec...
15:02 moritz echo 'deb-src ftp://ftp.debian.org/debian/ lenny main contrib non-free' >> /etc/apt/sources.list
15:02 moritz apt-get update
15:02 moritz apt-get build-dep ghc6
15:03 moritz apt-get source --compile ghc6
15:04 moritz dpkg -i $resulting_debian_package # I'm not there yet :(
15:04 moritz diakopter: that's about it
15:06 moritz it looks like I've entered another phase of the bootstrapping process
15:07 diakopter moritz: thanks :)
15:08 moritz diakopter: you're welcome
15:08 * diakopter starts that on an Etch vps
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15:08 moritz btw I didn't use the --compile option (I forgot about it), but stepped into that directory manually, and started dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -b -uc
15:10 * diakopter did apt-get build-dep ghc6=6.6.1-2 just in case
15:10 moritz diakopter: not necessary unless you use some evil pinning or the like
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15:12 diakopter moritz: :D  http://rafb.net/p/SnrJal80.html
15:12 lambdabot Title: Nopaste - /etc/apt/*
15:13 moritz diakopter: seeing those pins I don't think you need my advise ;)
15:14 diakopter yes I did, I haven't before built from a deb-src...
15:15 moritz ok
15:15 moritz pinning scares me... when I read the corresponding manpages and then edit /etc/apt/preferences it never does what I want...
15:15 diakopter I learn quickly, but I forget even more quickly.  But I usually don't forget the event of learning (and then usually forgetting) something.  and I don't remember learning build-dep --compile :)
15:16 moritz and then I change something completely stupid, and it works. hopefully
15:16 moritz build-dep is *really* handy ;)
15:17 diakopter It took probably 1.5-2 hours of reading various todo posts to come up with that one.  I left out parts of the /etc/apt/preferences... here's the whole thing so you can see how I used volatile... http://rafb.net/p/FCP3tV73.html
15:17 lambdabot Title: Nopaste - /etc/apt/*
15:18 diakopter unfortunately you can't glob the Package: line for multiple packages. :( :( (clamav*, e.g.)
15:22 diakopter oh, I forgot - cat /etc/apt/apt.conf  
15:22 diakopter APT::Default-Release "etch";
15:26 diakopter with those 3 files set up like that, the minimum required version of a package provided by sources.list is always installed, no matter where you apt-get install from.  (e.g. apt-get install spamassassin/unstable)
15:27 diakopter I tried all kinds of other configurations, but it wasn't until that arrangement that it stopped wanting to unnecessarily upgrade stuff.
15:28 * diakopter tries to stop being offtopic
15:30 moritz diakopter: it's _all_ about getting pugs to compile again, isn't it? *g*
15:30 diakopter sure!
15:30 diakopter moritz: oh yeah. that's what I was doing. :/
15:31 masak :)
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15:39 diakopter wow...... now that's a long command-line.  152 columns by 55 rows, nearly full.
15:42 * diakopter read through 'Once and Future Perl' yesterday
15:46 masak diakopter: book? article?
15:46 diakopter LAW ppt slidedeck
15:47 masak LAW?
15:49 diakopter oops
15:50 masak I guess my question is: does it have an URL?
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15:53 * diakopter looks
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17:21 rhr so I'm trying to build a new ghc according to the directions moritz++ gave and have run into a problem...
17:22 rhr ghc 6.6.1 built and installed, but it looks like I have to rebiuld libghc6-filepath-dev and friends.  when I go to install the build-deps for libghc6-filepath-dev it wants to remove the old version but fails:
17:22 rhr ghc-pkg: cannot find package FilePath-0.11
17:23 rhr and apt is now stuck not able to do anything because of this
17:26 diakopter rhr: you're on etch?
17:27 rhr yup
17:28 diakopter rhr: if I understand it correctly, I think you should remove libghc6-filepath-dev
17:28 rhr the above error is what I get with the old ghc6 installed.  with the new one I get: /var/lib/dpkg/info/libghc6-filepath-dev.prerm: line 13: /usr/lib/ghc-6.6/bin/ghc-pkg: No such file or directory
17:28 diakopter then reinstall the .deb you built
17:28 rhr diakopter: I can't
17:29 rhr the error prevents it from being removed
17:29 diakopter hrm
17:29 diakopter I guess you'll have to force or manually remove it
17:29 rhr how does one do that?
17:30 * diakopter gappy index.  consults master index.
17:31 diakopter (my build keeps failing b/c that machine is running out of ram continually...
17:31 rhr I've never encountered the situation where dpkg --purge doesn't work
17:33 diakopter hrm; I didn't even have libghc6-filepath-dev installed.
17:36 rhr even dpkg dpkg --purge --force all doesn't work
17:37 diakopter same error message?
17:37 rhr yup
17:38 diakopter rhr: replace the libghc6-filepath-dev section in /var/lib/dpkg/status with: Package: libghc6-filepath-dev
17:38 diakopter Status: purge ok not-installed
17:38 diakopter Priority: extra
17:38 diakopter Section: devel
17:40 diakopter then try apt-get install -f   maybe?
17:40 rhr ok, that got apt unstuck.  thanks!
17:41 diakopter yw
17:41 rhr now I'll try to build the other stuff
17:43 * diakopter tries building ghc6=6.6.1-2 with 600 free MB this time :/
17:44 rhr so pugs wants libghc6-mtl-dev but the build deps can't be satisfied on etch :(
17:45 rhr I'll try to build haddock, maybe that will get it...
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17:58 Psyche^ changed the nick to Patterner
17:59 moritz rhr: I'm trying that as well
18:00 rhr so far I've had to build haddock haskell-utils libghc6-time-dev libghc6-mtl-dev libghc6-network-dev
18:00 rhr pugs is compiling now...
18:01 devogon joined #perl6
18:01 moritz I already built pugs, but I have to rebuild ghc6-mtl
18:02 moritz and haddock as a build dep
18:03 DarkWolf84 joined #perl6
18:09 rindolf joined #perl6
18:12 * diakopter 's ghc6.6.1 build seems to have made it to rts
18:13 * moritz dispairs
18:14 rhr in case anyone else wants to avoid compiles, I put all the .debs I built at http://airen.bcm.umontreal.ca/ghc-pugs-etch/ (amd64 only)
18:14 lambdabot Title: Index of /ghc-pugs-etch
18:14 rhr not apt-gettable
18:15 moritz rhr++
18:18 moritz don't you want to do the same with i386?
18:18 * diakopter is doing that..
18:19 diakopter (we might see about adding them to backports.org?)
18:20 moritz diakopter: that would be great
18:20 moritz perlbot: nopaste
18:20 perlbot Paste your code at http://sial.org/pbot/perl and #perl will be able to view it
18:20 lambdabot Title: sial.org Pastebot - pasteling
18:21 BoogieMan joined #perl6
18:21 pasteling "moritz" at 84.148.51.222 pasted "install problems with mtl" (16 lines, 841B) at http://sial.org/pbot/26317
18:21 moritz any ideas concerning regarding my paste?
18:22 rhr a backport would be very cool.  I can put debs for other archs up if someone supplies them.
18:22 rhr moritz: that looks very similar to what happened to me
18:22 moritz rhr: so how did you fix it?
18:23 rhr if apt and dpkg won't remove the old version, you have to edit /var/lib/dpkg/status manually as diakopter++ describes above
18:24 rhr change the status line for the package to Status: purge ok not-installed
18:25 rhr worked for me anyway...
18:27 diakopter rhr: although... now that I think about it... since that package is provided by the ghc6... that might confuse things
18:27 rhr which package?
18:27 diakopter so maybe that section should be removed entirely.  where's #debian when you need it?
18:28 moritz /var/lib/dpkg/status doesn't list libgh6-filepath-dev
18:28 moritz and ghc6 provides it
18:28 rhr in my case it was the filepath package that was the trouble, and it turns out not to be necessary...
18:30 rhr moritz: you might try re-installing all of the old ghc stuff and then removing all of it before installing the new debs
18:30 * diakopter seconds that suggestion; over and out
18:31 rhr I don't really understand the underlying problem though, so listen to me at your peril :)
18:31 moritz rhr: good idea ;)
18:42 unobe_away changed the nick to unobe
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19:36 moritz I had to overide the build deps for lighc-network-dev
19:37 moritz but now Makefile.PL went through cleanly
19:46 rhr moritz: what was the missing build-dep? I had to build haddock and haskell-utils in addition to the ghc stuff, but that satisfied everything for me
19:46 moritz @tell audreyt pugs build requires time-any, but Makefile.PL doesn't check for it
19:46 lambdabot Consider it noted.
19:47 moritz rhr: dpkg-checkbuilddeps: Unmet build dependencies: ghc6-doc libghc6-base-doc libghc6-parsec-doc
19:48 rhr oh yeah, that comes from the ghc6-doc deb you get when you build ghc
19:49 rhr I should write up a "how to install ghc 6.6.1 on etch" thing for INSTALL
19:49 moritz rhr: aye, but ghc6-doc doesn't install for me (dies with a haddoc error)
19:49 rhr did you build your owh haddock from testing?
19:50 rhr I didn't have that problem
19:51 diakopter @tell audreyt see ticket 27 please
19:51 lambdabot Consider it noted.
20:24 moritz S05/"Nothing is illegal" # irc log test
20:26 Tene moritz++ # irc log hacking
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20:55 pugs_svnbot r17064 | rhr++ | trunk:
20:55 pugs_svnbot : [INSTALL] Instructions for installing new GHC on Debian etch
20:55 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17064
20:55 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17064 - Pugs - Trac
20:58 rhr if anyone tries the ghc install procedure for etch, please report your success or failure
20:58 jrockway joined #perl6
21:00 unobe changed the nick to unobe_away
21:00 Aankhen`` rhr: I just used aptitude.
21:00 rhr does it do all of that for you?
21:02 rhr or did you install libc6 etc. from testing?
21:02 Aankhen`` One sec, I haven't looked at the instructions yet.
21:03 polettix joined #perl6
21:03 Aankhen`` Is dev.pugscode.org down?
21:03 rhr not here...
21:03 Aankhen`` Hmm, looks like I can't access any sites at all.
21:04 Aankhen`` Well, not quite true.  I can't access anything but Google.
21:07 Aankhen`` joined #perl6
21:10 pugs_svnbot r17065 | moritz++ | trunk:
21:10 pugs_svnbot : [irclog]
21:10 pugs_svnbot :  * substituted spaces with &nbsp; in actions in the nick column
21:10 pugs_svnbot :    (prevents line breaks)
21:10 pugs_svnbot :  * fixed OSCON in abbr.dat
21:10 pugs_svnbot :  * added synposis links of the form S05/"Nothing is illegal" as suggested by
21:10 pugs_svnbot :    [particle]++
21:10 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17065
21:10 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17065 - Pugs - Trac
21:11 moritz when I do a 'svn log --limit 5' just after a commit, why can't I see my own last log message?
21:11 ashleyb TimToady: I would love to hear your take on this conference you're at, (sort of a wrap up report),  or if you have a pointer to slides that'd be cool too.
21:12 Aankhen`` rhr: I was wrong, looks like I only have GHC 6.6.
21:21 rhr Aankhen``: ok, you can be a guinea pig :)
21:21 pugs_svnbot r17066 | rhr++ | trunk:
21:21 pugs_svnbot : [INSTALL] corrections to etch ghc install instructions
21:21 pugs_svnbot : moritz++ diakopter++
21:21 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17066
21:21 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17066 - Pugs - Trac
21:24 Aankhen`` rhr: I'm not sure I understand.  Do the instructions only work on AMD64?
21:25 diakopter Aankhen``: can you get to dev.pugscode.org yet?
21:25 Aankhen`` diakopter: Yup, it was a DNS problem on my end.
21:25 rhr no, just that there are prebuilt debs for amd64
21:25 Aankhen`` rhr: Oh, okay.
21:25 diakopter and i386
21:26 rhr diakopter: where are the i386 debs?
21:27 diakopter sec
21:27 pugs_svnbot r17067 | moritz++ | trunk:
21:27 pugs_svnbot : [irclog] disabled xhtml header for spam.pl
21:27 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17067
21:27 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17067 - Pugs - Trac
21:28 diakopter http://feather.perl6.nl/~diakopter/
21:28 lambdabot Title: Index of /~diakopter
21:28 diakopter oops; gotta re-add the /icons alias
21:29 * Aankhen`` is following the instructions in INSTALL.
21:30 * Tene submits a patch to INSTALL adding the line "Mail $20 to Tene"
21:30 * Aankhen`` adds to that line: , c/o Aankhen
21:31 rhr Aankhen``: thanks for testing
21:31 pugs_svnbot r17068 | rhr++ | trunk:
21:31 pugs_svnbot : [INSTALL] diakopter++ has i386 ghc debs
21:31 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17068
21:31 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17068 - Pugs - Trac
21:31 Aankhen`` rhr: NP.
21:31 Aankhen`` rhr: What's your address, just in case I need to send you nasty packages? :-D
21:32 rhr ryan@tau.solarneutrino.net
21:32 Aankhen`` Hmm, I guess that'll do.
21:33 Aankhen`` BTW, it's generally a good idea to say: [off] foo@bar.org
21:33 Aankhen`` So it's not logged.
21:34 rhr ah, didn't know about that.  I think all the spammers have my address already though...
21:34 lisppaste3 joined #perl6
21:34 Aankhen`` Heh.
21:35 Aankhen`` I used to get four times more spam on my private address compared to my public address.
21:37 rhr up until a few years ago I got almost no spam at all, then somehow the floodgates opened.  bogofilter has done a pretty good job with it though.
21:37 * moritz wonders how much spam mail@example.com and localpart@domain.com receive ;)
21:37 Aankhen`` LOL..
21:38 bonesss joined #perl6
21:38 moritz Aankhen``: have you ever visited exampl.com? *g*
21:38 moritz s/exampl/example/
21:39 rhr wow, it used to not resolve
21:40 moritz if the domain was available i'd buy it and put up code examples
21:40 moritz and get thounds of backlenks for free ;)
21:40 moritz *thousands
21:41 mj41 joined #perl6
21:42 SamB man that HTML is old school
21:42 SamB you can actually read it!
21:45 moritz SamB: the HTML of all my homepages is very readable
21:45 moritz SamB: perhaps with the exception of the irc logs ;)
21:45 moritz which are overtuned and just too  much data
21:46 SamB I'm betting there is no MX record for example.{com,net,org}
21:46 SamB and no smtpd either
21:47 moritz Aye
21:50 moritz bed &
22:21 aindilis joined #perl6
22:28 marmic joined #perl6
22:30 moritz joined #perl6
22:35 Aankhen`` joined #perl6
22:35 moritz_ joined #perl6
22:38 Aankhen`` Yeesh, GHC still compiling.
22:42 diakopter Aankhen``: what architecture you on?
22:42 Aankhen`` IA-32?
22:45 diakopter uname -a
22:45 diakopter you didn't want to use the .debs I posted?
22:46 aindilis` joined #perl6
22:46 Aankhen`` Oh, i686.
22:46 diakopter :D
22:46 diakopter k
22:51 diakopter oh, actually...
22:52 diakopter hrm. I don't understand why uname -a says i686 for me as well, but the .debs that got built say i386
22:52 * Aankhen`` makes threats in GHC's direction to try to get it to build faster.
22:53 diakopter silly VPSes.
22:54 miyagawa joined #perl6
22:56 SamB diakopter: i386 is another name for IA-32
22:57 SamB i686 is a kind of IA-32 as well
22:59 SubStack joined #perl6
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23:15 Aankhen`` rhr: Ping.
23:16 Aankhen`` rhr: At step 3 ("Install new GHC", "dpkg -i ghc6_6.6.1-*.deb"), I get a warning about not being able to delete the old GHC directory because it's not empty, and errors about dependencies not being satisfied.  Is that alright?
23:16 Aankhen`` (I'm guessing the dependencies thing is okay since the next step is to install them, but I'm worried about not being able to delete the old directory.)
23:17 rhr Aankhen``: I got the warning about the directory also
23:18 rhr what is the dependancy problem?
23:18 Aankhen`` One sec, I'll put it on pastebin.
23:18 pasteling "Aankhen" at 24.80.73.85 pasted "GHC install error" (12 lines, 563B) at http://sial.org/pbot/26323
23:18 rhr I'm not sure what the deal is with the directory, but its not being deleted didn't seem to harm anything
23:19 bsb joined #perl6
23:20 rhr hmm, I guess you should reinstall haskell-utils and then install the new ghc again
23:20 Aankhen`` apt-get install haskell-utils?
23:20 rhr the etch haskell-utils
23:20 rhr yes
23:20 Aankhen`` OK.
23:21 rlb3 joined #perl6
23:25 Daveman Aankhen`` :)
23:27 BoogieMan joined #perl6
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23:35 pasteling "Aankhen" at 24.80.73.85 pasted "Haddock error" (27 lines, 1.5K) at http://sial.org/pbot/26324
23:35 Aankhen`` rhr: Error with the doc package now.
23:36 rhr fascinating...
23:37 Aankhen`` Um, yeah, totally.
23:37 rhr you've installed the new haddock already?
23:37 Aankhen`` AFAIK, yes.
23:38 rhr then maybe try installing the old haddock, installing ghc-doc again, and then installing the new haddock
23:39 Aankhen`` OK.
23:39 Aankhen`` Er, how
23:39 Aankhen`` ?
23:39 justatheory joined #perl6
23:40 rhr apt-get install haddock; dpkg -i ghc6-doc_6.6.1-*.deb; dpkg -i haddock*.deb
23:40 Aankhen`` `apt-get install haddock` seems to try to install ghc6-doc and fails with the same error as I pasted.
23:40 Aankhen`` Same errors, rather.
23:41 rhr ok, can you apt-get remove ghc6-doc?
23:41 Aankhen`` Done.
23:41 rhr then retry those 3 commands
23:41 Aankhen`` OK.
23:41 Aankhen`` haddock is already at the newest version, apparently.
23:42 mako132_ joined #perl6
23:42 rhr oh, are you looking at the latest rev of INSTALL?  I changed the order of the ghc6-doc installation
23:42 Aankhen`` Nope, no good.  apt-get install haddock insists that it's at the newest version already.
23:42 Aankhen`` I believe so.  One sec.
23:43 Aankhen`` Yes, I am.
23:43 rhr in that case you should compile and install the new haddock before installing ghc6-doc, I think
23:43 Aankhen`` I followed all the instructions. :-S
23:43 rhr can you verify which version of haddock is installed?
23:44 rhr maybe you need to apt-get remove haddock and then apt-get install haddock to get the old version
23:45 rhr if it's the new version that's causing the problem
23:45 Aankhen`` Okay, did that.
23:46 rhr ok, now can you dpkg -i ghc6-doc_6.6.1-*.deb ?
23:46 Aankhen`` Same error. -_-
23:47 rhr hmm, apt-get remove haddock; dpkg -i ghc6-doc_6.6.1-*.deb ?
23:47 Aankhen`` Now it says haddock is not installed.
23:47 Aankhen`` (When it reaches ghc6-doc.)
23:48 Aankhen`` Wait, one sec.  Maybe I'm reading this wrong.
23:48 Aankhen`` I'll pastebin it.
23:48 pasteling Someone at 24.80.73.85 pasted "# apt-get remove haddock; dpkg" (23 lines, 978B) at http://sial.org/pbot/26325
23:48 Aankhen`` rhr: There you go.
23:48 rhr I wish I knew what those error messages actually meant...
23:49 Aankhen`` Maybe it's trying to read new haddock docs with the old haddock?
23:49 rhr but it didn't work with the new haddock, right?
23:49 Aankhen`` I think the new haddock just didn't install at all.
23:49 rhr oh, what was the problem there?
23:49 Aankhen`` It went through the motions but doesn't seem to have had any effect.
23:50 Aankhen`` I'll try going through the steps for haddock again.
23:51 rhr huh, ok
23:55 Aankhen`` Nah, no luck.
23:56 Aankhen`` BTW, I'm not sure if this is all I'm supposed to get...
23:56 pasteling Someone at 24.80.73.85 pasted "# dpkg -i haddock*.deb Selecti" (6 lines, 235B) at http://sial.org/pbot/26326
23:56 Aankhen`` It just drops me back at the prompt at that point.
23:58 rhr that looks normal to me
23:58 Aankhen`` Ah.
23:58 rhr let me try it...
23:58 Aankhen`` Well, whatever it is, ghc6-doc is still not happy.

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