Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2007-07-24

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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Time Nick Message
00:39 pugs_svnbot r17127 | Darren_Duncan++ | ext/Muldis-DB/ : large updates to DB.pod and SeeAlso.pod, to finish their separation from their counterparts in the Language::MuldisD repo (MuldisD.pod and SeeAlso.pod); lots of minor renaming-type updates in the other .pod files
00:39 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17127
00:39 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17127 - Pugs - Trac
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01:40 diakopter @tell moritz no, I wasn't referring to any tinyurl.  I mean, if you tell IE6 to go to http://moritz.faui2k3.org/irclog/out.pl​?channel=perl6;date=2007-07-19#id_l318  it loads the correct page, but does not scroll down to the anchor #id_l318
01:40 lambdabot Consider it noted.
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02:18 Zoffix diakopter, it's something with the headers you are sending it. Are you sending some cache headers?
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02:24 diakopter Zoffix: ok
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07:46 pugs_svnbot r17128 | Darren_Duncan++ | ext/Muldis-DB/ : large updates to the README, Changes, TODO files, to finish their separation from their counterparts in the Language::MuldisD repo
07:46 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17128
07:46 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17128 - Pugs - Trac
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08:33 diakopter um, that was interesting.  pugs 'make soon' compiled in 3 minutes, immediately following a (successful) 'make realclean'.
08:37 masak that's soon.
08:41 diakopter I seem to recall it taking about 10x longer than that, previously.  perhaps I'm mistaken, though.
08:41 masak if nothing seems to be amiss, 3 minutes is good news, no?
08:41 Alias_ heh
08:41 masak coffee breaks are getting shorter, but otherwise...
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08:43 * diakopter tries again just in case I fell asleep during the build without realizing, and times it for good measure.
08:43 masak :)
08:44 diakopter hm; make realclean needs a bit of help; 'svn status' after 'make realclean' shows several unversioned files
08:44 diakopter but certainly none that would help out ghc/Cabal....
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08:49 pugs_svnbot r17129 | diakopter++ | Fixed a typo.  Look!  I modified a .hs file!  \nI'm now a Haskell programmer!  Oh wait, it's just a comment block...
08:49 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17129
08:49 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17129 - Pugs - Trac
08:49 masak diakopter++ # haskell comment hacker
08:52 diakopter Haskell.tmbundle (TextMate) is nifty... (I must always have the very best golf clubs before I fix typos in comments.)
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08:58 * masak goes to look up TextMate
08:58 Patterner TextMate is good.
08:58 masak this Mac culture thingie is disorienting for me as a long-time Linux user
08:58 masak suddenly I have to pay for some things
08:58 masak I'm not used to paying for software
08:59 Aankh|Clone diakopter: ROTFLMAO.
09:00 masak I know that FOSS != free as in beer, but still that is the immediate and most noticeable effect for me
09:03 diakopter you don't pay to *use* !freeware.. you pay to be slightly-safer(or so they want you to think)-from-(groundless?-)prosecution-than​-if-you-used-a-warez/serialz/crackd/keygen version of the !freeware. That said, I'll likely pay for a TextMate when the trial runs out.  But probably not appleDarwin10.5.
09:04 diakopter a TextMate license <sigh>
09:05 masak diakopter: for me it's not the consequences of using a warez version that limits me, it's the morality of it
09:05 masak for some reason, I prefer to use software under the conditions that their author(s) have set up for it
09:06 masak that said, I mostly use FOSSware
09:07 diakopter masak: I didn't say I would *use* appleDarwin10.5... (or TextMate after the trial runs out). It's just that in some cases, the true 'author(s)' are hard to pin down.
09:09 masak diakopter: why are they hard to pin down? I imagine that those who accept money should be pretty easy to reach
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09:19 diakopter masak: 'pin down', meaning 'identify'.
09:21 masak diakopter: ok. when would it matter that they are hard to identify?
09:27 diakopter I mean to say that in some cases (okay, fewer than I was implying), a bit of copy-protected software isn't worth the license fee b/c it's composed of a ton of FOSS, with a tiny bit of functionality added on (and perhaps a trademark on the rebrand/rename), and so, is in my opinion, not worth reimplementing myself (if even I could), but also not worth paying the license fee.  In those cases, I would rather send some money to the ...
09:27 diakopter ... makers of the FOSS libraries that enabled the person to wrap/bundle/copy-protect it.
09:28 masak diakopter: ah
09:29 masak diakopter: also, sometimes, as is the case with e.g. Menufela, the fee is basically for the packaging of a registry setting somewhere
09:30 masak nevertheless, I'm seriously contemplating paying the $5 it costs, because I liked those settings
09:30 masak but still it's a strange new world for one who is used to the idea of free (as in beer) knowledge
09:31 diakopter If I can honestly say that I would feel guilty demanding a license fee >USD$x for this bit of copy-protected software (if I were the copy-protector), then I'm going to have a harder time feeling good/willing about paying for it.
09:32 masak that's some kind of reverse golden rule logic :)
09:37 diakopter I mean, if (say) the author found out about my (theoretical) copy-protection-avoidance via a kernel extension that bypassed Little Snitch and sent a packet somewhere or (even more cruelly and effectively impossible to detect) used public DNS lookups to send himself information from my computer, but still took the time to send me an email and (somewhat successfully) try to convince me that he deserves the license fee for his ...
09:37 diakopter ... efforts, I'd seriously consider paying the fee, just b/c the person was willing and able to persuade me the software is worth it.  But then I'd probably turn around and blog about the surreptitious information delivery.
09:40 diakopter I don't know of any tools that help a firewall blacklist authoritative DNS servers.... and still that would be helpful only for those who don't use any intermediary recursively resolving DNS servers (but instead use only their own).
09:40 * Alias_ has kind of always wanted to release something people liked enough to pay
09:40 Alias_ But I never get around to doing anything sufficiently end-usery
09:40 Alias_ Most of my stuff is toolchain and support modules
09:42 diakopter Alias_: I daresay if you put up a donate link somewhere, you'd get donations.  I say that without knowing whether you already have a donate link..... :)
09:42 Alias_ I don't
09:42 masak hm. the freeware concept of paying for a proper/complete version, never appealed to me
09:42 masak Alias_: I agree with diakopter. put up a donate link
09:42 Alias_ hmm
09:43 Alias_ Trouble is that from what I can tell, nobody donates to small stuff
09:43 Alias_ I looked at the sourceforge donation stuff once, and hardly anyone ever did
09:43 Alias_ Except to the really popular end-user stuff
09:46 masak Alias_: but you do good blogging as well. I enjoy reading your blog posts sometimes. my guess is that those give you an image and an increased target for donation than the small sourceforge projects
09:46 Alias_ maybe
09:47 diakopter Alias_: well as long as your reputation is even somewhat close to the "Starving Artist" image as opposed to the patent/trademark-exploiting trivialware... you'd do okay. :)
09:47 Alias_ heh
09:47 Alias_ The image of a Starving Artist is something I would like to avoid though
09:47 Alias_ So the question is, how to do it tactfully while retaining my dignity :)
09:47 Alias_ masak: Glad you like the posts btw
09:48 Alias_ Please don't call it a blog though :)
09:48 Alias_ Makes me cringe :)
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09:48 masak Alias_: ok -- journal?
09:48 Alias_ yup
09:48 masak the difference is slightly blurred for me
09:48 masak though I agree that 'blog' is a silly word
09:48 Alias_ Well, I see a blog as a sort of stream of conciousness thing
09:48 masak heh
09:48 Alias_ "What I saw on this website today"
09:48 Alias_ etc
09:48 masak I see
09:48 Alias_ Some are themed, some are personal etc
09:49 Alias_ I see use.perl as a development journal
09:49 masak yes
09:49 diakopter how about The Seasoned Professional Who Deserves And Earns A Reasonable Profit, And Gives Back To The Community From His Produce?
09:49 Alias_ A place to note the Perl stuff I'm working on, or prototype talks/thoughts
09:50 Alias_ Mostly so I don't have to say the same things over and over and can just point to URLs
09:50 Alias_ :)
09:50 Alias_ Which is why I started it in the first place
09:50 Alias_ I got sick of explaining document/code duality
09:51 masak Alias_: re avoiding the Starving Artist image: just don't be unnatural about the donation stuff. make it blend in -- not disappear, but not scream out in any way either
09:51 Alias_ ya
09:51 masak maybe Wikipedia is a good role model
09:51 masak their donation notices don't disturb me at all
09:51 Alias_ wikipedia is also one of those things that's heavily used and mostly by end-users
09:51 Alias_ I'll think of something
09:52 masak Wikipedia is the only thing I've ever donated to, btw
09:52 diakopter Alias_: developers are end-users, too.
09:52 Alias_ really?
09:52 Alias_ (masak)
09:52 masak yes. so they did something right :)
09:52 masak maybe I should say the only computer-related thing
09:53 Alias_ ya
09:53 diakopter Alias_: I mean: they're the end-users of your products. And I'm sure many of them consider themselves such.
09:53 Alias_ I suppose I could start the "Strategic Drama Bomb Reward" fund
09:53 masak :)
09:54 masak that's a great name! where can I donate?
09:54 Alias_ ala Vertical Metre of Beer fund :)
09:54 Alias_ In fact...
09:55 masak care to explain the name, btw?
09:56 Alias_ It comes from the original creation of Vanilla Perl
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09:57 Alias_ Two years ago this month, at OSCON, I did my PPI talk, but I couldn't do the live PPI::Tester demo, because ActivePerl doesn't have a working CPAN client
09:57 masak it doesn't?
09:57 Alias_ nope
09:57 masak uncool
09:57 Alias_ They have binary packages
09:57 masak eech
09:57 Alias_ unfortunately, their binary package build system is also screwed
09:57 Alias_ Fatally
09:57 Alias_ I had spent almost 9 months trying to get them to fix it and help them out
09:57 masak :(
09:57 Alias_ In the end, 3 months after OSCON, we hit a dead end
09:58 masak why?
09:58 Alias_ They couldn't fix the problem, for business/legal reasons
09:58 * masak sighs
09:58 Alias_ They had guarenteed binary backcompatibility to 5.8.0 for all their binary packages
09:58 Alias_ Which cause the build system to get confused about and break Scalar::Util
09:58 Alias_ AND EVERYTHING THAT DEPENDS ON IT
09:58 szbalint oh my
09:58 Alias_ Recursively
09:58 masak ...I seem to remember scraps of this
09:58 Alias_ ya
09:59 szbalint nice hole they dug themselves into
09:59 masak you've probably journalled about it
09:59 Alias_ A few times
09:59 masak :)
09:59 Alias_ I also asked if they could just bundle dmake and mingw gcc with ActivePerl
09:59 Alias_ Which would give us a working CPAN client and make the point moot
09:59 Alias_ And that ended with a DIFFERENT legal dead end
09:59 Alias_ Because ActivePerl contains some minor amounts of code that is released under the ActivePerl license
09:59 Alias_ And the ActivePerl license is incompatible with the GPL
10:00 Alias_ *head*desk*
10:00 masak :(
10:00 Alias_ So at that point, I decided ActivePerl was non-recoverable, and we should just make a new Win32 distro
10:00 Alias_ I mean, how hard could it be right
10:00 masak :)
10:01 Alias_ By that point, I'd figured out through all this that the binary PPM system ActivePerl used was no longer necesary
10:01 Alias_ Because of dmake (nmake replacement) and gcc(mingw) working natively on Win32
10:01 Alias_ So theoretically you could make a complete working Perl
10:01 Alias_ But of course I don't know C
10:01 Alias_ So I spent 2-3 months trying to get people that did know C and make and such to help make me a simple Win32 installer
10:02 Alias_ And it went nowhere, people would offer to help, and then do nothing
10:02 Alias_ The curse of the volunteer project, of course
10:02 masak yes
10:02 Alias_ So I decided I needed to take a new approach
10:02 masak money
10:02 Alias_ kinda
10:02 szbalint yeah it's kind of a "scratch an itch" thing with a lot of volunteer projects
10:03 Alias_ So I made a public offer, a reward.
10:03 Alias_ That I would give whoever brought me a working Win32 Perl installer, meeting certain criteria but not specifying how it should be created, a vertical metre of beer
10:04 Alias_ That is, they pick a beer, and we buy crates of it and stack them up until it was a metre high
10:04 Alias_ And I pay
10:04 Alias_ Any beer they wanted
10:04 Alias_ (excepting of course stupidly overpriced $10 a bottle ones) :)
10:04 masak that's a great reward
10:04 Alias_ indeed
10:05 masak I wish there were more such rewards
10:05 Alias_ I posted it in my journal
10:05 masak I remember
10:05 Alias_ And it got, I'm told, copied around to a ton of monger lists
10:05 Alias_ And I had a working installer in two days
10:05 Alias_ :)
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10:05 masak *lol*
10:05 szbalint lol
10:05 Alias_ Two in fact, using two entirely different approaches
10:05 Alias_ One beat the other by like an hour
10:06 Alias_ So it wasn't the money
10:06 Alias_ It was the sheer insanity and attention-grabbing nature of the reward, and the social reward of winning it
10:06 diakopter it was the novelty of the reward, and the story they could tell about it.
10:06 Alias_ indeed
10:06 szbalint nicely done anyway
10:06 Alias_ The guy that won it was from the same city as me
10:06 diakopter what you said
10:06 szbalint is the solution still in use?
10:06 Alias_ In fact, the head of my monger group
10:07 Alias_ The winning one isn't
10:07 Alias_ He wrote a macro-installer
10:07 Alias_ It was 500k
10:07 Juerd I always thought vertical meters were bottles, not crates, and was underwhelmed by such contests :)
10:07 Juerd And I did wonder how to stack bottles like that.
10:07 masak Alias_: what did the beer cost you in the end, if you don't mind me asking?
10:07 Alias_ About AU $180
10:08 Alias_ The installer started up, then went to the ActivePerl website, and downloaded ActivePerl, then downloaded dmake, and some C++ editor that just happened to have a working gcc in it
10:08 Alias_ And the macro-installer installed all three, and automated the configuration to make them work together
10:08 masak Alias_: also, you haven't explained the "drama bomb reward" name
10:08 Alias_ oh... "drama bomb" is an EVE Online term
10:09 Alias_ For intentionally, generally with no warning, announcing something rediculously attention grabbing
10:09 Alias_ And real
10:09 szbalint heh.
10:09 Alias_ (of course)
10:09 szbalint This was the last channel I expected someone to talk about eve online
10:09 szbalint :)
10:09 Alias_ Imagine audreyt turning up and announcing she was releasing an official Perl 6 beta today
10:09 Alias_ That's a drama bomb :)
10:10 Alias_ szbalint, you play?
10:10 szbalint indeed
10:10 * Alias_ refers szbalint to irc.perl.org #eve
10:11 szbalint ty
10:11 Alias_ Anyways
10:11 Alias_ The metre of beer reward also drove kane to defeat Acme::BadExample
10:12 Alias_ Which was what inspired using the same thing for good, instead of evil
10:13 szbalint btw how can I connect to irc.perl.org? The dns doesn't seem to be working
10:13 szbalint Host g.irc.perl.org not found: 2(SERVFAIL)
10:14 Alias_ try irc://cou.ch/eve
10:15 szbalint ty
10:21 diakopter perl.org's DNS has been sporadically failing for years... I've complained over and over about it; but no one ever believes me.
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10:33 diakopter Alias_: what do you know about http://www.scons.org/
10:33 lambdabot Title: SCons: A software construction tool
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10:42 szbalint diakopter: I believe you.
10:44 Alias_ diakopter, absolutely nothing
10:47 Alias_ Except that it's in Python and has no support for Perl
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11:59 masak Fortress looks seriously cool
12:00 Alias_ Fortress?
12:00 Alias_ The movie? :/
12:00 masak the language
12:00 Alias_ ah, url?
12:00 masak I'll get you a link, brb
12:01 masak http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F​ortress_(programming_language)
12:01 * masak is reading the spec right now
12:01 masak it has much in common with p6, actually
12:03 masak ...including being in an early stage of development :)
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13:26 meppl gugu
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13:35 masak meppl: I still haven't figured out this 'gugu' thing. does it mean 'hi' in your local dialect?
13:37 masak ?eval class Gugu { method it { "gugu" } } my $gugu = new Gugu; "I say $gugu.it, you say $gugu.it, let's call the whole thing off."
13:37 evalbot_r pugs: user error (*** *** Can't modify constant item: VUndef␤        at <prelude> line 782, column 9-46␤           <prelude> line 782, column 9-46␤    at)␤
13:38 masak :(
13:38 masak evalbot_r: I wasn't trying to modify anything
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14:17 lumi masak: I think you're missing a semicolon, maybe?
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14:24 masak lumi: I think I've successfully skipped semicolons after closing class }'s before
14:24 masak but I'll give it a shot
14:24 masak ?eval class Gugu { method it { "gugu" } }; my $gugu = new Gugu; "I say $gugu.it, you say $gugu.it, let's call the whole thing off."
14:24 evalbot_r pugs: user error (*** *** Can't modify constant item: VUndef␤        at <prelude> line 782, column 9-46␤           <prelude> line 782, column 9-46␤    at)␤
14:24 masak :(
14:25 meppl masak, some austrian people say "gugu" to little childs. its slang. it comes from the verb "kucken"(to watch) as command "kuck!"(watch!) --> "kuck kuck" --> "gugu"
14:26 meppl masak, so, the mother says "guguu" to the baby and the child looks on its mother
14:26 meppl its a greeting
14:27 masak meppl: ah
14:27 masak you learn something every day :)
14:27 masak gugu to you too, then
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14:28 Zoffix Is there some channel where I could play with the eval bot?
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14:29 fglock meppl: hey - my parents used to do that :)
14:30 pugs_svnbot r17130 | fglock++ | [kp6] unTODO infix:<==>
14:30 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17130
14:30 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17130 - Pugs - Trac
14:30 meppl ;)
14:34 fglock Zoffix: http://run.pugscode.org/ - but it seems to be down
14:34 lambdabot Title: Run Perl 6 Now -- in your browser!
14:34 Zoffix Thanks.
14:35 fglock or maybe I've got the port blocked
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14:37 Zoffix Works for me.
14:40 Zoffix Though you have a typo in href="" on that page. "....Pugs</a>interpreter for <a href="http://dev.perl.org/perl%206/">Perl&nbsp;6</a>." That link gives 404. Seems it's href="http://dev.perl.org/perl6/" without a space.
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15:36 diakopter Zoffix: you should be able to PM the evalbot directly
15:36 diakopter but, it might be better to use run.pugscode.org, if it's up.
15:36 diakopter oh
15:37 diakopter I see someone already said that
15:37 diakopter Zoffix: would you like a commit bit for pugs (so you can fix that href typo)?  otherwise I or anyone else can fix it...
15:39 masak diakopter: don't give him an easy escape, just give him the commit bit :)
15:39 diakopter heh
15:39 diakopter Zoffix: PM me your email address and preferred svn username. :)
15:40 Zoffix diakopter, done
15:40 * Zoffix runs to work
15:43 diakopter Zoffix: sent!  welcome aboard.
15:44 BinGOs and god save your souls.
15:44 avar *gasp*
15:46 BinGOs svn co
15:46 BinGOs svn del *
15:46 BinGOs svn commit -m "Snigger"
15:47 diakopter eh?
15:47 BinGOs d'oh I missed the tar zxvf python.tar.gz bit there
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15:47 * BinGOs huggles diakopter
15:47 BinGOs I was being wonderously humourous.
15:47 diakopter hm.  huggies is a diaper ("nappy"?) brand
15:47 BinGOs erm
15:48 diakopter sorry; huggles you said
15:48 BinGOs 'huggles' is a cuter form of hugs.
15:48 BinGOs anyways....
15:48 diakopter i see, haskell users' golfing system
15:48 BinGOs I am in your pugs, smoking.
15:57 masak just wanted to note, to anyone who has the knowhow to fix it, that http://dev.perl.org/perl6/doc/design/apo/A07.html gives a 404 right now. I know it isn't very long, but it's being referenced from http://perlcabal.org/syn/ so it'd be nicer if it was present
15:58 masak s/was/were/ # conditional is hard for us foreigners
15:59 diakopter masak: :D it's been 404 for at least a year. I think I mentioned it to someone back then and someone said it didn't matter...
16:00 masak diakopter: 404s always matter
16:00 masak unless they are intentional, which they very seldom are
16:00 masak and that just makes them matter but in a different way
16:01 masak I think it matters because the AES are the most official in the way of docs that perl6 has
16:02 masak and a 404 in the midst of official docs is a big deal
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16:15 diakopter masak: of course, I agree.  I was merely reporting my inquisitive experience.
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16:48 diakopter Juerd: ping
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17:23 diakopter Alias_: "scons" that I asked you about - it's managed by the guy that wrote "cons" for Perl 8-9 years ago.
17:23 diakopter or who at least maintained it back then.
17:23 Alias_ I've never heard of either
17:23 Alias_ tbh
17:23 diakopter neither had I until I started researching make replacments
17:26 diakopter btw, for whoever's interested, make soon truly does complete in less than 2 minutes (not including /etc)
17:27 diakopter I mean, not including /ext
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18:17 diakopter yesterday I asked Dr. GHC about that unified event/threading/concurrency model/implementation by Peng Li (honorary Perl 6 S17), and he said that Peng Li was working on reducing his implementation's performance hit with the goal of integrating it into GHC proper eventually (several months to a year perhaps).
18:19 [particle] it'd be nice to track the progress of that project more closely. any idea if that's possible?
18:20 diakopter I dunno. :) I suppose we could ask Peng Li if he wants to use the pugs subversion repo for scm. :)
18:20 [particle] that's certainly one way :)
18:22 diakopter does anyone know how to tell ghc/cabal to 'make install' HsSyck and hsregex?
18:22 diakopter (so that they don't have to be rebuilt after a 'make (real)clean')
18:24 diakopter although I suppose another make target could be forked for that purpose.
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18:41 Aankhen`` I have to admit, I don't understand how to apply the unified concurrency model to languages other than Haskell.
18:41 * diakopter muses MJD's HOP::Parser combined with Template::Declare's magic could be used to write Grammars....
18:42 diakopter Aankhen``: for (theoretical) use in pugs... in case such optimization possibilities end up being helpful in bootstrapping.
18:42 Aankhen`` diakopter: Eh wha?
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18:44 diakopter Aankhen``: I'm sure I don't know what I'm talking about, but I was imagining that tool being used by pugs... but that the api/model itself is portable to Perl 6.
18:44 diakopter TimToady: help? :)
18:45 Aankhen`` Heh.
18:45 Aankhen`` I know Perl 6 will use the same model, I just don't understand how it works.
18:45 Aankhen`` I'm probably in over my head.
18:47 diakopter Aankhen``: join the club...
18:47 diakopter (as they say)
18:47 Aankhen`` Hehe.
18:48 diakopter what's (of course) up in the air is how it would work on non-Linux or Linux<2.4.
18:48 diakopter (if at all)
18:48 Aankhen`` Yeh.
18:49 Aankhen`` I like the combined actors + events + threads model, personally. :-)
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19:40 pugs_svnbot r17131 | Darren_Duncan++ | ext/Muldis-DB/ : this is the Perl 6 equivalent of what will end up on CPAN as Muldis::DB version 0.3.0 for Perl 5
19:40 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17131
19:40 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17131 - Pugs - Trac
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20:00 szbalint win 3
20:00 szbalint err
20:01 szbalint ignore these three lines :)
20:01 dduncan what 3 lines?
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20:13 Juerd diakopter: pong
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21:27 kane__ alias: stubborness drove me to beat acme::badexample.. i got a good talk out of it and a meter of beer... life is good ;)
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21:28 Alias_ A potential metre of beer at least :)
21:28 Alias_ kane__: But I'm sure the OFFER/CHALLENGE attracted your initial attention right?
21:28 kane__ yes
21:28 Alias_ Which is about 50% of the point
21:28 kane__ the fact taht you said 'it cant be done' more or less
21:28 Alias_ ya
21:28 Alias_ Same thing caught stennie for the camelpack
21:29 Alias_ "huh? surely it can't be THAT hard"
21:30 kane__ it was a *bit* harder than expected, but indeed not as impossible as suggested :)
21:31 Alias_ That's why I made the challenge self-healing :)
21:31 Alias_ And said you needed to give me a patch to prevent the solution you used :)
21:31 Alias_ From memory anyways
21:31 Alias_ (checks)
21:32 kane__ yup, pretty much
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22:04 szbalint kane__: any link to that talk and how did you beat the module? :)
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23:49 meppl good night
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