Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2007-07-25

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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02:45 jbwiv guys, I'm sure this is an oft asked question...but is there any slight hint of a date when perl 6 might be released? Say, before 2010?
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02:53 Tene jbwiv: it will be released sooner if you help... want a commit bit for the svn repository?
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02:55 araujo jbwiv, i heard that every time someone asks when perl 6 will be released, this is delayed 6 months , 6 weeks, 6 days more
03:01 diakopter jbwiv: more importantly, I'm severely curious why you're interested in when an implementation of Perl 6 will be released.  Do you have a particular business decision you're making, and perhaps considering Perl 5 or 6?
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03:12 pmichaud I'm working on it, really! :-)
03:12 TimToady I'm just listening to pudge.
03:13 Tene I'm surprised by how little development has happened since audreyt hasn't been around.
03:18 Zoffix What kind of work do you need "help" with?
03:18 Zoffix I am not THAT good with Perl more of a web guy
03:20 Tene Zoffix: something that would be very helpful would be if someone would write up a spec for web libraries for Perl 6.
03:20 diakopter Zoffix: what other language(s) do you know (if any)?
03:20 Tene Or at least expand on Juerd's proposal.
03:21 * Zoffix realizes that he won't be of much help .... :)
03:21 Tene Zoffix: http://svn.pugscode.org/pugs/ext/HTTP/docs/ -- take a look at these two docs here.
03:21 * Zoffix looks
03:23 diakopter Zoffix: ah, you're a CSS guy.
03:24 Alias_ oh dear
03:24 Tene Zoffix: oh, you do actual web stuff, not perl stuff that creates web stuff?
03:24 Alias_ I look at that web motivations thing and I see second-system syndrome all over again
03:24 * Tene misunderstood.
03:24 Alias_ I have libraries that do what he describes
03:24 Alias_ And they are fairly chunky
03:25 Tene Alias_: perhaps you could speak about those thoughts for a bit?
03:25 Alias_ I tried this several times
03:25 Alias_ Took me 2 or 3 attempts
03:26 Zoffix diakopter, pretty much ( zoffix.com && haslayout.net ) I know CSS/HTML really well, a bit of JS. Coded some Python and C++ in the past but don't remember a thing. Been coding in Perl for about a year.
03:26 Alias_ What I found was that simplistic sticky fields was fairly naive
03:26 Alias_ Doing is right was far trickier
03:26 Alias_ it
03:26 Alias_ For example
03:27 Alias_ Lets say you have a series of options, radio buttons
03:27 Tene CGI::FormBuilder has a pretty good implementation of part of it, at least.
03:27 Alias_ If you are editing an existing record, you NEED the current value to be an option, even if it's not in the list
03:27 Tene *nod*
03:27 Alias_ That means you really are treating the entire cluster as a single thing
03:27 Alias_ Also, those things naturally trend to classes
03:28 Alias_ Where the class is responsible for BOTH taking a piece of data and turning it into HTML
03:28 Alias_ And then taking the result fragment of CGI fields and looping it back into the data
03:28 Alias_ And error checking it
03:28 Alias_ And that single class can throw a piece of data around the data->HTML->browser->CGI->data as many times as it likes
03:29 Alias_ in my case I have data->view, data->edit, cgi->data
03:29 Alias_ And an intermediate form for things like three-dropdown date selectors, where they don't select all three
03:29 Alias_ Which would be the object itself really
03:29 Alias_ $object = WidgetClass->from_cgi
03:29 Alias_ if ( $object->error_messages ) etc
03:30 Alias_ So in my web apps, I've accumulated all these neat hybrid classes
03:30 * diakopter tries to figure out what in the world Alias_ is talking about
03:30 Alias_ Like Widget::AU::DriversLicense
03:30 Alias_ (composite state dropdown with validates textfield attached)
03:30 Tene diakopter: Juerd's Web proposal is full of Second System Syndrome, according to Alias_.
03:30 Alias_ Or Widget::Human::EyeColour
03:30 Alias_ And so on
03:31 Tene diakopter: and I asked him for details.
03:31 Alias_ I think his motivations suggest solving those problem too close to the basic library layer
03:31 Alias_ My widget library solves the hard stuff, but it uses HTML generators and stuff underneath it
03:31 Alias_ They aren't linked together
03:31 diakopter ahhh... those documents.
03:32 Alias_ I also needed a fairly complex role-based inheritance structure to make it all work
03:32 Alias_ Because you have widgets that have context, or vary based on other widgets etc
03:32 Alias_ some need embedded javascript
03:32 Alias_ I have a widget that needs a thumbnailing module :)
03:33 Alias_ And one that has to check for client flash support
03:33 Alias_ etc
03:33 Alias_ (That would be Widget::Media::URI::MP3Player btw)
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03:34 Alias_ If we're going to solve problems in the Perl 6 web library, it's best to really solve the tricky stuff that spans entire sets of things
03:34 Alias_ like HTML vs XHTML contexts and what have you
03:34 Alias_ Doing CGI, just the CGI bit, strictly correctly
03:35 Alias_ Most of the problems with CGI.pm come from various attempts to join CGI to HTML
03:35 Alias_ sticky fields being one
03:36 Alias_ God sessions
03:36 Alias_ Another nasty problem
03:36 Alias_ sessions in shared memory? on disk databases? in the main database?
03:36 Alias_ what if my sesions need some special modality
03:36 Alias_ Or the need to straddle a cluster
03:36 * Tene leaves himself a note to return tomorrow and compile this set of thoughts into a document of some sort.
03:37 Alias_ The best thing you could possibly do, is solve the seperate problem domains seperately
03:37 Alias_ And don't play favourites and built-in functionality games when it comes to the hard stuff
03:38 Alias_ About the only new feature I'd like to see in a CGI app, is the idea of a subform
03:38 Alias_ Where you name your CGI fields, say, "foo.name", "foo.address", etc
03:39 Alias_ And you can go CGI->new->subform('foo') and you get a subset of the fields
03:39 Alias_ with the prefix stripped/ignored
03:39 Tene And that's not really anything core... that's pretty trivial to add on top of any correct implementation.
03:39 Alias_ Something like that I've found useful and complementary to CGI
03:39 Alias_ Tene: Indeed
03:39 Alias_ I've written it 3 times :)
03:39 Tene Exactly.
03:39 * Tene goes to bed.
03:40 Alias_ night
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03:40 * Tene will read scrollback tomorrow.
03:42 * diakopter will flood the scrollback with commits
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03:50 diakopter welcome, perlDreamer
03:51 perlDreamer hola
03:52 pugs_svnbot r17132 | diakopter++ | initial stub of a feather-only svnbot plugin for Botnix, a multi-nick, multi-network, multi-channel, event-driven Perl 5 ircbot.  We'll see how it goes
03:52 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17132
03:52 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17132 - Pugs - Trac
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04:06 pugs_svnbot r17133 | perlDreamer++ | Remove old comments from top of file.
04:06 pugs_svnbot r17133 | perlDreamer++ | Uncuddle the elsif.
04:06 pugs_svnbot r17133 | perlDreamer++ | Fix the typos for the template line inside init.
04:06 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17133
04:06 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17133 - Pugs - Trac
04:12 Alias_ Tene: One thing I do agree with Juerd on though is that there should be a way to say things like "use utf8" or "use xhtml" once
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04:16 Alias_ (not necesarily in terms of "use" module loading of course)
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04:32 layon Hi! I need to extract attached files from mails, RFC 822 mail text, more exacly
04:32 diakopter layon: great! :)
04:33 diakopter Perl 6 would be good for that.
04:33 layon I know how to "separate" the attached file from mails, but I need get the mail without the attach....
04:34 layon diakopter, can you help me?
04:35 diakopter layon: which implementation of Perl 6 are you using?
04:35 layon I use GNU/Linux
04:36 diakopter layon: hm. are you in the right channel?
04:36 diakopter This is the channel for Perl 6.
04:39 layon perhaps I`m wrong....
04:40 layon I use perl 5, but think here can found some help......sorry
04:44 torz if you look at the channel name once more you will notice that you're wrong
04:44 torz hmmm
04:44 torz yawn
04:44 diakopter layon: no problem.  Good luck stripping attachments from emails.
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04:51 pugs_svnbot r17134 | perlDreamer++ | Add a method to interpolate the template for svnbot.
04:51 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17134
04:51 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17134 - Pugs - Trac
05:06 pugs_svnbot r17135 | perlDreamer++ | Instrument the template interpolator with a cache for reading
05:06 pugs_svnbot r17135 | perlDreamer++ | template files.
05:06 pugs_svnbot r17135 | perlDreamer++ | Take some care to make sure the template cache doesn't stomp
05:06 pugs_svnbot r17135 | perlDreamer++ | on itself.
05:06 pugs_svnbot r17135 | perlDreamer++ | Fix a few typos and syntax errors.
05:06 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17135
05:06 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17135 - Pugs - Trac
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10:04 Juerd 05:24 < Alias_> I look at that web motivations thing and I see second-system syndrome all over again
10:04 Juerd Alias__: Ehm, it's just a Perl6-ish redesign of LWP and CGI.pm
10:05 Juerd Alias__: Not adding any new feature - just restructuring, and changing syntax to something that is more Perl 6-ish (and IMO better)
10:05 Juerd Alias__: How is it 2nd system like?
10:06 Alias__ The sticky stuff should never have existed in CGI.pm the first time, sessions get done differently all over the place...
10:07 Juerd Alias__: I disagree about stickiness. For the simple cases, it's very useful. As for sessions, I'd like to learn how they should be done
10:07 Juerd Alias__: Note that I think stickiness should be off by default, but it could easily be added afterwards with a role.
10:07 Juerd Alias__: As for setting an option in a radio group that doesn't have that option - can be a fatal error for all I care :)
10:08 Alias__ Sessions are going to need to be done very differently depending on the web model
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10:08 Juerd Alias__: How?
10:08 Alias__ If you are doing it on a single machine, you can use fast stuff in shared memory, others use local DBM, the session might need to be in the database...
10:09 Alias__ then there's clusters
10:09 Alias__ Stuff that works in an async environment
10:09 Juerd Anyway, my strongest points are that you shouldn't have to repeat yourself, that get and post should be separated, and that we should have hash-like interfaces where hash-like interfaces make sense.
10:09 Juerd All the rest is negotiable (this is too, but I'm less likely to be convinced)
10:09 Alias__ I totally agree with the HTML vs XHTML and the unicode thing
10:10 Alias__ The sticky stuff I've found completely pointless, because the implementation is so utterly trivial
10:10 Juerd But that's where the sessions are *stored*. I don't think I even touched that subject.
10:10 Alias__ I don't like linking the HTML and CGI sides of the problem
10:10 Juerd I only said that there should be a default that works out of the box, regardless of performance.
10:10 Alias__ They are intrinsically orthogonal problems
10:10 Juerd Alias__: Yes, but if they talk to eachother, that can be useful
10:11 Alias__ OR, the next layer up can use them both
10:11 Juerd HTML::Form.new( use_for_defaults => $request ); suffices.
10:12 Alias__ ugh
10:12 Alias__ stinks of bloat to me
10:13 Juerd If this already looks like bloat to you, then our disagreement is rather fundamental
10:13 Juerd You seem to say that default values based on the current request must not be possible
10:13 pugs_svnbot r17136 | fglock++ | [kp6] added tests for the Prelude (still fail)
10:13 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17136
10:13 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17136 - Pugs - Trac
10:14 Juerd Whereas I think it's absolutely necessary, to provide an upgrade path from Perl 5's CGI.pm
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10:14 Alias__ HTML::Sticky.new( cgi => $cgi, form => HTML::Form.new() );
10:14 Juerd Doesn't have to be in the same toolkit, doesn't have to be enabled by default, doesn't even have to have ultra-nice syntax. But it *must* be available, and it must work with the standard web toolkit.
10:14 Juerd Alias__: Perfect.
10:15 * Alias__ is big on layers not getting above themselves :)
10:15 Juerd Alias__: I think you've misunderstood my posts. The code is for illustration, and I haven't even posted any code about stickiness anyway.
10:16 Alias__ I didn't get to the code :)
10:16 Juerd I've just said that it's useful, and must be available - can't see how that's second system syndrome.
10:16 Alias__ Most of the hard work I do lately pretty much hangs on stuff like motivations :)
10:17 Juerd Can you explain why you think it's bloated?
10:17 Alias__ Juerd: It was the "we can do better, and provide functionality for this and this and this"
10:17 Alias__ I had a dark feeling of "like CGI.pm, but bigger!"
10:17 Alias__ Or something vaguely like that
10:17 Juerd Alias__: That's because it has to be, at least somewhat, like CGI.pm, in the grand scale. CGI.pm is used a lot, and all its useful features need to be provider, if people are ever going to adapt the new stuff.
10:17 Alias__ ya
10:17 Juerd Alias__: The interface and implementation, however, can be radically different.
10:18 Juerd And I think I said that :)
10:19 Juerd Most important to me is that it works out of the box, and is much better designed that CGI.pm
10:19 Alias__ hear hear
10:19 Juerd And indeed, HTML generation, including stickiness, is *not* part of a CGI framework, that's why I called it Web, not CGI :)
10:19 Juerd Web::* is a bunch of smart wrappers around HTTP::* and HTML::*, in my mind.
10:20 Juerd And, if HTTP and HTML are no longer the world wide defaults, then it can easily be changed to support other techniques
10:21 Juerd But if at first you just get a raw HTTP::Request object, fine
10:21 pugs_svnbot r17137 | fglock++ | [kp6] match stringification works; but doesn't load Prelude correctly
10:21 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17137
10:21 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17137 - Pugs - Trac
10:21 Juerd LWP is mostly very well designed - there's no reason its class structure couldn't be copied over and reused
10:21 Juerd And I think it's a bit weird that we're not already widely using it in Perl 5 web development :)
10:22 Alias__ indeed
10:22 Alias__ It just beed to be better maintained
10:22 Juerd An HTTP request object is great on the client side as well as on the server side
10:22 Alias__ gisle doesn't exactly give it much attention any more
10:22 Juerd Well, for Perl 6, it needs minor redesign anyway
10:23 Juerd I don't want to set headers with methods, or grab form variables with methods.
10:23 Juerd We can build ordered hashes and hybrid array/scalar values, and we should
10:23 Juerd Build that once, and it'll be useful all over the CPAN :)
10:24 Alias__ uuhhh...
10:24 Juerd At least for everything that vaguely resembles mime headers :)
10:24 Alias__ if there's no methods, how do you overload and emulate stuf
10:24 Alias__ I want the simplest possible solution
10:24 Alias__ And most extensible
10:24 Juerd There can be methods
10:25 Juerd The array/scalar thing is just a role an object can have
10:25 Juerd Same for the ordered hash thing.
10:25 Alias__ ordered hash thing is tricky
10:25 Juerd "does Hash" just gives your object a bunch of methods, like .keys, .values, and .{} and .<>
10:26 Juerd Why?
10:26 Alias__ Because the CGI params aren't really an ordered hash
10:26 Juerd Er, yes they are :)
10:26 Alias__ foo=1;bar=2;foo=3
10:26 Alias__ Turn that into an ordered hash and you've got information loss
10:26 Juerd Much less than when .param() is your only entry.
10:26 Juerd What data would be lost, except the semicolons?
10:26 Alias__ seen the internals? :)
10:26 buubot Alias__: Sorry, I haven't seen the
10:27 Juerd Oh, I get it -- you're talking about having to choose between "foo is an array" and "foo is two values"?
10:27 Alias__ ya
10:27 Juerd I think that should be a user decision. Obviously one can't have both.
10:28 Alias__ Either a list of pairs, or an ordered list, or an unordered list
10:28 Alias__ The most literal version is a list of pairs
10:28 Juerd Yes, but that'd be detached from common use
10:29 Juerd I think that in practice, the fact that bar=2 was before foo=3 doesn't matter in more than 99% of all webapps.
10:29 Juerd Ordering is necessary within headers/formvars of the same key only
10:29 Juerd I think a normal hash would suffice even
10:30 Juerd As long as the values are scalar/array hybrid
10:30 Alias__ hmm
10:30 Juerd In any case, I think we agree on most things
10:30 Alias__ objects, removed, just checked the structure of the CGI.pm internals
10:30 Alias__ objection removed
10:30 Juerd Let's put this stuff on a wiki soon and hack on it
10:30 Alias__ rather
10:31 Juerd I can reformat my post "Web development I: Web::Toolkit" as a bullet point wishlist
10:31 Juerd Then the individual points can be molded into the right shape
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11:46 * Jmax coughs
11:46 Jmax any prelimenary work done on pod2.0 ?
11:46 Jmax I wish pod had tables :)
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11:54 fglock_ hmm - if I inline the kp6 Prelude into a program, it works - but it fails when "use"d
11:55 fglock_ it's time to get "use" properly implemented
11:57 masak fglock_: any idea why it fails?
11:58 fglock_ masak: not yet - the initialization seems to be working in the right order
11:58 masak ok
11:58 masak any tests say anything about use?
11:59 fglock_ t/kp6/30-prelude-match.t fails if the 'use' is uncommented
12:01 * masak svns up
12:01 meppl hello
12:01 masak meppl: hi there
12:02 fglock_ meppl: hey
12:02 meppl hello masak and fglock
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13:06 avar Jmax: pod2 has tables
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14:40 pugs_svnbot r17138 | fglock++ | [kp6] working Perl6::Prelude
14:40 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17138
14:40 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17138 - Pugs - Trac
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15:52 pugs_svnbot r17139 | fglock++ | [kp6] '$_' and '$/' are not 'GLOBAL'
15:52 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17139
15:52 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17139 - Pugs - Trac
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16:02 pugs_svnbot r17140 | fglock++ | [kp6] v6/docs/kp6-roadmap.pod - phase 4 is marked as started
16:02 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17140
16:02 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17140 - Pugs - Trac
16:04 * moritz_ updates the HTML version
16:04 moritz_ changed the nick to moritz
16:05 moritz somehow the git mirror doesn't work as I expected
16:05 lambdabot moritz: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
16:11 moritz lambdabot: I know, I backlog... ;)
16:11 TimToady hard to backlog and listen to Tim O. at the same time...
16:13 moritz TimToady: that's why we hilight you if there's something important ;)
16:14 TimToady I've yet to see a hilighter that could distinguish my important ideas from my blatherations. :)
16:14 moritz filter it through perlmonks.org ;)
16:17 pugs_svnbot r17141 | fglock++ | [kp6] added tests for Capture
16:17 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17141
16:17 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17141 - Pugs - Trac
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17:01 diakopter kayak.com is my favorite screen-scraper
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17:10 * moritz thinks about tags/labels that could be attached to conversations in the irc logs
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17:12 diakopter moritz: my last comment would get the "OSCON lurker/troll" label.
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17:15 diakopter any other OSCONers want to share what session(s) they're attending this morning and the rest of today?
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17:17 diakopter I'll be in the "herding cats" talk right now... or in the virtual hallway track.
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17:28 Jmax avar: nice
17:29 diakopter Jmax: what do you mean by Pod2.0?
17:29 Jmax i mean the p6 version of pod
17:29 Jmax i was simply using a cute name for it!
17:29 diakopter Jmax: there's currently quite a big blocking controversy occuring on the mailing lists regarding exactly that...
17:30 Jmax the name?
17:30 diakopter a controversy that's blocking further progress, I mean
17:30 * rho is away: getting ice cream
17:30 diakopter no, the format itself
17:30 Jmax oh, I see
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17:50 bcmb I can't seem to get pugs to build with parrot embedded, any ideas?
17:52 diakopter bcmb: I don't think that configuration currently works anywhere.
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17:56 bcmb diakopter, thanks ... today was the first time that I tried that
17:56 diakopter bcmb: may I ask if you have a pugs commit bit yet?
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17:57 bcmb not yet ... I was looking over the todo list and I think that I could help with getting some of the smart links setup
17:57 diakopter aside: I suspect that half the macbooks Apple has ever made are in Portland, OR at the moment.
17:58 diakopter bcmb: great! PM me your email address and preferred svn username :)
17:59 moritz_ diakopter: did you check in your todo list from http://moritz.faui2k3.org/irclog/out.pl?channel=perl6;date=2007-07-19#id_l437 somewhere?
17:59 lambdabot Title: IRC log for #perl6, 2007-07-19, http://tinyurl.com/2erfo8
17:59 diakopter (private message, I mean).  Or just put it here in the channel if you don't care about spam to that address, or have excellent filtering, etc.
17:59 diakopter moritz: no, but I'm learning lots at oscon that is putting those ideas in flux...
18:00 diakopter bcmb: invitation sent :)
18:01 diakopter moritz: (the usual featuritis and scope creep and idealism over pragmatism)
18:01 moritz_ diakopter: I know that ;)
18:01 bcmb diakopter, got it ... thanks
18:02 moritz_ http://www.perlmonks.org/?node_id=628746 <-- I wrote my first meditation on pm, about contributing to perl6
18:02 lambdabot Title: Getting Involved with Perl 6
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18:05 diakopter bcmb: you're already familiar with the Synopses? :)
18:07 bcmb diakopter, I've been reading through them in my spare time the last few days
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20:32 meppl good night
20:33 moritz_ sleep well, meppl ;)
20:33 meppl ;)
20:36 masak meppl: night
20:40 meppl ;)
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21:12 diakopter TimToady: hilight! :)   SPJ (paraphrased) - "If the language is too wide-ranging [permissive?] the compiler has no chance of optimization." (referring to design choices in Data-Parallel Haskell's syntax for denoting Data-parallel arrays)
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21:18 TimToady we did something like that when we made the >><< reversible to indicate dwimminess vs lack of dwimminess
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21:32 diakopter TimToady: how was the DBI::Gofer talk?  I think it's interesting that it's getting presented the same year as MySQLProxy (which is similar, but at the transport layer).
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21:36 * diakopter walks and types
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22:14 diakopter any haskellers around today?
22:15 diakopter (I would like to chat about an alternative idea for approaching P6-on-ghc (other than pugs' current approach).)
22:15 wolverian how much of a haskeller do you want?
22:16 wolverian oh. that much.
22:16 * wolverian backs off
22:16 diakopter heh
22:17 diakopter wolverian: have you toyed with http://haskell.org/haskellwiki/GHC/As_a_library ?
22:17 lambdabot Title: GHC/As a library - HaskellWiki
22:17 wolverian some time ago, yes. I left it alone due to lack of docs
22:17 wolverian that was in 6.5 days
22:18 wolverian oh, the page is a lot better nowadays :)
22:20 wolverian hm. I wanted to use it from vim
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23:33 diakopter wolverian: after a 20-min discussion with spj on the topic, he recommends *not* attempting to do either of the two alternatives I was considering, but not for the reasons I would have expected.  Here are my two ideas:
23:34 wolverian diakopter++
23:34 Tene diakopter++
23:35 diakopter what's with the karma-ing? :P
23:35 [particle1 diakopter--
23:35 [particle1 :P
23:37 diakopter spj++ for being patient with me and willing to address my novice ramblings...
23:37 wolverian and the ideas? :)
23:38 diakopter 1) Implement Perl 6 on top of libGHC as, essentially, a source filter that translated Perl 6 source into some haskell-syntax intermediary form, that included calls to functions imported from some new dynamic-language Haskell module, including a functional edition of PGE/TGE's functionalities.  It would have then fed the translated Haskell source to libGHC.
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23:49 * Eidolos wonders if it's a joke at Perl 6's expense that diakopter didn't give us #2
23:50 diakopter oops, now I remember, he said that I *could* consider number #2... which was: 2) Implement Perl 6 as a substitute front-end to GHC, that handles the parsing, the type-checking/enforcement, and again, a translation of much of Perl 6's dynamic and "impure" language features to [usages of] new haskell libraries (of mostly new monads, apparently), which emits the result to Core (haskell's lower-level, preferably-functional ...
23:50 diakopter ... intermediary representation).
23:50 diakopter Ediolos: :P
23:51 diakopter Eidolos: :P
23:51 wolverian I wonder how much that would give us over the current approach
23:52 Tene What's the current approach?
23:53 diakopter anyway, he said that #2 was possible and feasible, because it could reuse lots of GHC's existing Haskell98 front-end... but that of course it's mostly a super-set of #1.
23:53 Eidolos #2 is what Liskell does
23:53 Eidolos well, partly. it does the parsing at least :)
23:53 Eidolos it still defers to ghc on the parsing
23:54 Eidolos it still defers to ghc on the type checking (sigh, I'm tired)
23:54 diakopter wolverian: it would eliminate the bootstrapping step. Suddenly, there's no need to bootstrap, because Perl 6 would be sorta a dialect of Haskell-on-GHC.  GHC would replace Parrot/PGE...
23:55 diakopter no need to bootstrap, and no benefit to bootstrap, I mean.
23:55 wolverian diakopter, oh, right.. haskell 6? :)
23:59 diakopter in addition, it would give Haskell the ability to host/intake the same set of languages that Parrot targets.

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