Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2007-08-02

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

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01:19 SamB have you folks seen this: http://www.ohloh.net/projects/3300/analyses/latest ?
01:19 lambdabot Title: Pugs Code - Ohloh
01:21 Tene What is it?
01:22 SamB it's got some statistics about pugs
01:22 SamB unfortunately it doesn't know what Haskell is yet
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05:50 moritz_ TimToady: iirc substr isnt
05:50 moritz_ ah, I should read on before answering ;)
05:51 hoowa does audryet here?
05:52 moritz_ hoowa: she idles here, but hasn't been active lately
05:53 moritz_ @seen audreyt
05:53 lambdabot audreyt is in #haskell and #perl6. I don't know when audreyt last spoke.
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08:04 meppl good morning
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10:22 agentzh masak++ # p6 dom builder
10:23 agentzh @seen masak
10:23 lambdabot I saw masak leaving #perl6 18h 4m 12s ago, and .
10:24 agentzh i think you can rework the v6.pm's grammar to make it always return the entire match objects instead of particular captures...
10:24 agentzh masak: but i'm not quite sure about the precedence parser part in PCR...
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12:15 bloonix hmmm
12:15 bloonix hello together
12:15 bloonix ?eval say :8(10)
12:15 pugsbot_r17185 OUTPUT[8␤] Bool::True
12:15 bloonix ?eval say 10.:8
12:15 pugsbot_r17185 Error: ␤Unexpected ":8"␤expecting ".", "\187", ">>", "=", "^", operator name, qualified identifier, variable name, "...", "--", "++", "i", array subscript, hash subscript or code subscript
12:17 bloonix is that not yet implemented or will that be never implemented?
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14:18 sysdef cycle
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14:24 bloonix how can I get the inode of a file ?
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14:28 broquaint (stat $fn)[1]
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14:38 bloonix stat() on unopened filehandle FH at /usr/share/perl/5.8/File/stat.pm line 49.
14:38 jettero hrm, I wondered if that was a perl5 question
14:38 bloonix my $fh = open('test.txt'); say (stat $fh)[1];
14:38 jettero oh
14:38 bloonix #!/usr/bin/pugs
14:38 jettero perl6 loads perl5 modules?
14:39 jettero I clearly need to read some web pages about pugs
14:42 bloonix hmm I dont understand how to open a file for appending
14:42 bloonix what is the right operator?
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14:44 bloonix :a
14:44 bloonix ^^
14:45 bloonix just test it
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15:06 bloonix I tried to open a file with "my test.pl" and not with "vi test.pl"...
15:06 bloonix I need holiday :/
15:11 moritz_ bloonix: was ist lexically scoped at least? ;-)
15:12 bloonix hi moritz_
15:13 moritz_ hi bloonix ;)
15:15 bloonix how can I implement something like Fcntl's O_CREATE | O_APPEND ...?
15:17 bloonix I need O_TRUNC O_EXCL O_WRONLY O_APPEND O_CREAT
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15:52 pasteling "bloonix" at 87.230.108.20 pasted "use perl5:POSIX <strftime>; my" (6 lines, 118B) at http://sial.org/pbot/26612
15:53 bloonix ***
15:53 bloonix    Unexpected "$lt"
15:53 bloonix    expecting "=", context, ":" or "("
15:53 bloonix    at ./posix.pl line 5, column 4
15:53 moritz_ ?eval localtime
15:53 pugsbot_r17185 Error: ␤Unexpected end of input
15:53 bloonix moritz_: any idea?
15:53 moritz_ bloonix: learn haskell, fix pugs :/
15:53 moritz_ ?eval localtime();
15:53 pugsbot_r17185 \Time::Local.new(("day" => 2), ("hour" => 17), ("is_dst" => Bool::True), ("min" => 53), ("month" => 8), ("picosec" => 0), ("sec" => 49), ("tz" => 7200), ("tzname" => "CEST"), ("wday" => 5), ("yday" => 213), ("year" => 2007))
15:53 moritz_ ?eval localtime().day;
15:54 pugsbot_r17185 \2
15:54 moritz_ ?eval localtime().yday;
15:54 pugsbot_r17185 \213
15:55 moritz_ ?eval localtime # without parenthesis
15:55 pugsbot_r17185 Error: ␤Unexpected end of input
15:55 moritz_ why that?
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16:04 gnuvince @seen audreyt
16:04 lambdabot audreyt is in #haskell and #perl6. I don't know when audreyt last spoke.
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16:10 lumi Ah, whatever happened to the Haskell-people meeting?
16:13 lumi diakopter: Whatever happened to the Haskellite meeting you suggested?
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16:25 diakopter lumi: I didn't push it
16:26 lumi Still interested, though?
16:27 diakopter lumi: yes
16:27 lumi I'm asking as a beginner Haskellite, I don't know the compiler innards
16:27 lumi So I won't be able to judge your ideas for feasability probably
16:28 lumi s/abil/ibil/
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16:30 diakopter lumi: :)
16:35 bloonix ?eval 333 ~~ /^3{1..3}$/
16:35 pugsbot_r17185 Match.new(␤  ok => Bool::False, ␤  from => 0, ␤  to => 0, ␤  str => "", ␤  sub_pos => (), ␤  sub_named => {}␤)
16:35 bloonix why is that false?
16:36 moritz_ ?eval 333 ~~ m/^3**{1..3}$/
16:36 lumi ?eval 333 ~~ /^3**{1..3}$/ # maybe it's like this?
16:36 pugsbot_r17185 *** Cannot parse regex: ^3**{1..3}$␤*** Error: Error: quantifier not implemented: $VAR1 = {␤  'closure' => '{1..3}'␤};␤␤Match.new(␤  ok => Bool::False, ␤  from => 0, ␤  to => 0, ␤  str => "", ␤  sub_pos => (), ␤  sub_named => {}␤)
16:36 pugsbot_r17185 *** Cannot parse regex: ^3**{1..3}$␤*** Error: Error: quantifier not implemented: $VAR1 = {␤  'closure' => '{1..3}'␤};␤␤Match.new(␤  ok => Bool::False, ␤  from => 0, ␤  to => 0, ␤  str => "", ␤  sub_pos => (), ␤  sub_named => {}␤)
16:36 lumi ENOTIMPL
16:37 moritz_ bloonix: {} in p5 is **{} in p6
16:37 bloonix hmmm
16:37 bloonix okay
16:38 moritz_ bloonix: plain { ... } encloses code that is executed on matching
16:42 TimToady presumably your p5ism would be caught eventually by a "Useless use of range" warning
16:42 moritz_ TimToady: is that already in STD.pm?
16:42 TimToady STD doesn't do context analysis
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16:43 TimToady but it might be a simpler problem than in p5, so maybe STD could do at least some of it
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16:44 moritz_ I saw detection of while(my $var =... as p5ism
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16:46 TimToady some of the void context can be spotted by syntactic analysis, while other instances require semantic analysis.  It's an interesting question whether it's better to report in two place rather than one, assuming the syntactic analysis can find the problem significantly earlier.
16:47 TimToady it's not always the case that , or ; introduce void context on the left
16:48 TimToady and certainly in this case, the bare block called from regex doesn't know that it's in void context unless the regex parsing rule tells it
16:48 TimToady as far as {1..3} is concerned, the range is the final value, so is returned
16:48 moritz_ right
16:49 TimToady it's also an interesting question to what extent STD, when used as a mere syntax checker, should be reporting such warnings
16:50 TimToady but in the user's mind the distinction between syntactic and semantic analysis will be fuzzy in any case
16:51 TimToady plus there's a minor side issue that we run the risk of warning twice about the same thing if we do it in two places
16:52 [particle] unless the analysers share state info
16:52 TimToady there's probably something profound in here about what can be factored out
16:52 TimToady semantic analysis that merely makes distinctions
16:53 TimToady vs tree transformations
16:53 TimToady I think a syntax checking could warn about use of an undefined sub, for instance.
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16:54 TimToady *checker
16:54 moritz_ erm ist that really a syntactic issue?
16:55 TimToady depends on how you define "syntax" :)
16:55 moritz_ doesn't that depend on the import mechanism of modules, for example?
16:55 TimToady BEGIN changes things
16:55 TimToady including your current syntax
16:55 moritz_ aye
16:57 TimToady but it seems obvious that there will be things that BEGIN can do that are well-behaved (in a PPIish sense) and things that aren't
16:58 TimToady so maybe we can have some enforcement of what kinds of syntactic changes are allowed without extraordinary declaration of UNSAFE_PRACTICES
17:01 TimToady you ought to be able to swap in a completely new grammar safely, but BEGIN { require $x if rand < .5 } is obviously not so safe
17:01 moritz_ but it's a nice idea ;)
17:02 TimToady and maybe BEGIN is really the counterpart to eval, insofar as any forced use of it to do something that needs less power indicates a missing feature
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18:18 DarkWolf84 I found perl6-alpha in subversion
18:18 DarkWolf84 It really work
18:18 DarkWolf84 ?
18:18 Tene DarkWolf84: I don't understand your question.
18:19 DarkWolf84 does perl6-alpha in pugs subversion work
18:20 DarkWolf84 is it ready for testing
18:20 DarkWolf84 sorry for mu bad english
18:21 [particle] perl 6 is under development.
18:21 DarkWolf84 i know
18:21 DarkWolf84 but
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18:21 DarkWolf84 is it ready for testing
18:22 DarkWolf84 does it run some code
18:22 DarkWolf84 ?
18:22 [particle] there are almost 20,000 tests now
18:22 [particle] there are evalbots and other things written using perl 6 (pugs)
18:23 [particle] ?eval "hello, world!".say
18:23 pugsbot_r17185 OUTPUT[hello, world!␤] Bool::True
18:26 DarkWolf84 what is the diference between pugs and perl6-alpha then?
18:29 DarkWolf84 and why there r Install and Istall.v6-alpha
18:31 fglock DarkWolf84: just try 'cpan v6' for installing v6 from cpan
18:31 fglock it comes with some tests
18:32 DarkWolf84 right this is perl6 on perl5
18:32 fglock yes
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18:36 moritz_ and pugs is p6 on haskell
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18:37 PerlJam but perl6 on parrot is the *real* perl6   ;-)
18:37 moritz_ PerlJam: does it pass the test suite yet? *g*
18:41 moritz_ changed the nick to moritz
18:41 moritz I have my nick back ;)
18:41 moritz but probably not for long :(
18:41 obra PerlJam: Perl 6 on Parrot is "Onion"
18:42 moritz obra: not officially
18:42 obra Just to be pedantic, the "real" Perl 6 is _ANYTHING_ that passes the test suite
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18:42 obra and that's canonized in Syn1.
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18:43 moritz so I'll write a script that passes the test suite - and it will be called official perl 6
18:44 moritz it's a 10 liner in clean p5 ;)
18:44 obra moritz: if your script can run everyhthing in the test suite, then yes.
18:44 obra if you emasculate the test script and print 1 ok  and exit... well, we'll all giggle.
18:44 obra but there is not one 'official' implementation.
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18:44 PerlJam moritz: write script that uses the test suite to gather the answers it is supposed to give and then output them at the appropriate time.   Eventually it will pass the test suite  :)
18:44 moritz obra: good april's fool joke ;)
18:44 obra moritz: sure.
18:45 DarkWolf84 LOL
18:45 moritz I planned to do that for previous 1st april, but I didn't find the time
18:46 obra http://use.perl.org/~jesse/journal/26825?from=rss
18:46 lambdabot Title: Journal of jesse (2531)
18:47 PerlJam ed.7  xferlog_regular.processed.3
18:47 PerlJam weird
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19:14 lichtkind moritz: hihi
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21:47 meppl good night
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22:29 pugs_svnbot r17195 | lwall++ | Allow for $$foo forms of attached sigil
22:29 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17195
22:29 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17195 - Pugs - Trac
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23:23 Limbic_Region salutations all
23:25 Debolaz Salutations Maximus.
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