Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2007-08-03

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

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01:08 Tene obra: /ctcp #perl6 TIME
01:08 Tene Oh, that was a greeting, not a question.
01:08 * Tene .= fail();
01:09 allbery_b @localtime #perl6 -- :)
01:10 spinclad good &localtime(), @all
01:14 diakopter (*  #perl6  *)
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06:25 meppl good morning
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14:41 moritz_ good afternoon ;)
14:42 andara good afternoon, moritz_
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15:36 bloonix good morning ;)
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15:56 [particle] Infinoid: t\tools\pdb....ok
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16:21 lichtkind how i can emulate $" in perl6?
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16:29 bloonix lichtkind: hello
16:29 bloonix : On Fri, Mar 25, 2005 at 10:03:45PM -0800, Larry Wall wrote:
16:29 bloonix : > Hmm, well, if it got that far.  Given strict being on by default,
16:29 bloonix : > this particular example should probably just die on the fact that $"
16:29 bloonix : > isn't declared, since there's no $" in Perl 6.
16:30 bloonix it seems that $" is gone
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16:31 bloonix http://svn.pugscode.org/pugs/docs/AES/S28draft.pod
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16:35 Gothmog_ But you may write something like "foo {@a.join: ", "} bar"
16:36 Gothmog_ And there is probably something more elegant.
16:36 bloonix Gothmog_: jep
16:37 bloonix "$" is gone, replaced by @foo.join(":") or some such.
16:37 bloonix from S28draft.pod
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17:16 bloonix ?eval 'foo' ~~ /(foo)/; say $1
17:16 pugsbot_r17185 OUTPUT[␤] Bool::True
17:17 bloonix whats wrong here? no 'foo'
17:17 diakopter ?eval 'foo' ~~ /foo/; say $1
17:17 pugsbot_r17185 OUTPUT[␤] Bool::True
17:17 bloonix I want capture it
17:17 diakopter afk
17:20 bloonix ?eval my $foo; 'foo' ~~ / (foo) { let $foo := $1 } /; say $foo;
17:20 pugsbot_r17185 *** Cannot parse regex:  (foo) { let $foo := $1 } ␤*** Error: ␤OUTPUT[␤] Bool::True
17:21 bloonix ?eval 'foo' ~~ /(foo)/; say $0
17:22 pugsbot_r17185 OUTPUT[foo␤] Bool::True
17:22 bloonix *arg*
17:26 bloonix ?eval 'foo' ~~ / (foo) { let $foo := $0 } /;
17:26 pugsbot_r17185 *** Cannot parse regex:  (foo) { let $foo := $0 } ␤*** Error: ␤Match.new(␤  ok => Bool::False, ␤  from => 0, ␤  to => 0, ␤  str => "", ␤  sub_pos => (), ␤  sub_named => {}␤)
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17:47 moritz_ ?eval 'foo' ~~ m/ $<foo> := (foo) /; $<foo>
17:47 pugsbot_r17185 \Match.new(␤  ok => Bool::True, ␤  from => 0, ␤  to => 3, ␤  str => "foo", ␤  sub_pos =>␤    (Match.new(␤       ok => Bool::True, ␤       from => 0, ␤       to => 3, ␤       str => "foo", ␤       sub_pos => (), ␤       sub_named => {}␤     ),), ␤  sub_named => {}␤)
17:47 moritz_ ?eval 'foo' ~~ m/ $<foo> := (foo) /; ~$<foo>
17:47 pugsbot_r17185 "foo"
17:48 Psyche^ changed the nick to Patterner
17:51 pasteling "blooni" at 87.79.208.212 pasted "'foo bar baz' ~~ /(.*)/; say "" (9 lines, 135B) at http://sial.org/pbot/26642
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17:51 bloonix thats confusing
17:53 moritz_ it is indeed
17:54 bloonix if I do $foo = $0 first and do $foo.split(rx/\s+/) its the same
17:55 moritz_ I think it's somehow because $0 is not a string
17:55 moritz_ try (~$0) instead, and it works as expected
17:55 moritz_ but that's not very DWIMmy
17:57 bloonix that works but tell me why
17:57 bloonix I dont understand it
17:57 bloonix shouldn't $0 work?
17:58 moritz_ wour List multi method split ( Str $input: Str $delimiter, Int $limit = * ) is export our List multi method split ( Str $input: Rule $delimiter, Int $limit = * ) is export
17:59 moritz_ if it
17:59 moritz_ sorry
17:59 moritz_ seems to be a typing problem
18:00 moritz_ pugs doesn't implement types very well (which should be changed by audreyt++'s waiting MO branch)
18:00 moritz_ it doesn't handle $0 as a string, even though it probably should coerce it into a string
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19:04 pugs_svnbot r17196 | lwall++ | substr should be exported multi method
19:04 pugs_svnbot r17196 | lwall++ | updated grammar description of printf formats to use newer, cleaner notation
19:04 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17196
19:04 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17196 - Pugs - Trac
19:04 Limbic_Region today I was teaching an introduction to perl to a bunch of Java developers.  Every so often I would say, in Perl 6 this will be done as "X" or when a question would arise, I would answer the question and say, in Perl 6 this will be done like "Y"
19:05 rindolf Limbic_Region: heh.
19:05 rindolf Limbic_Region: isn't it a bit confusing?
19:06 Limbic_Region The most overwhelming response I got was - when is Perl 6 coming out
19:06 Limbic_Region The most overwhelming response I got was - when is Perl 6 coming out
19:06 Limbic_Region hrm - apparently this client is eating everything I am typing again
19:06 Limbic_Region The most overwhelming response I got was - when is Perl 6 coming out
19:06 Limbic_Region grrrr
19:06 diakopter Limbic_Region: <sigh>: here, reconnect in 5 minutes - lemme switch it back to use the perl version... oka?
19:07 Limbic_Region rindolf - not really since this was more a "concepts" class rather than syntax
19:07 Limbic_Region diakopter - don't worry about it
19:07 diakopter ok
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19:08 Limbic_Region it was fun though
19:09 Limbic_Region diakopter - for what it is worth, I didn't have this problem when I used FireFox
19:10 Blwood_ changed the nick to Blwood
19:15 diakopter Limbic_Region: oh (nor I, during the brief times I tested it)
19:15 TimToady I'm trying to decide whether <foo: I am a $x> should default to interpolating like "" or not...
19:16 TimToady I find myself want to write a lot of error messages with <panic: ...> that want to interpolate bits of what was already parsed...
19:16 TimToady and S05 doesn't specify what it means by "string" there.
19:18 Limbic_Region remind me what the advantage (in this case) of <panic: ...> is over "panic: ..." ?
19:18 [particle] it's certainly difficult to produce good error messages in the parser now
19:18 [particle] however you can provide a backtrace
19:18 [particle] that helps give some context
19:20 TimToady Limbic_Region: "panic: ..." would match that literally in a regex, whereas <panic: ...> is short for <panic('...')> or maybe <panic("...")>
19:20 Limbic_Region er um, I guess I didn't do a good job of asking my question
19:21 TimToady the : form is just sugar
19:21 TimToady saves wear and tear on the () keys
19:21 Limbic_Region and now I must wait and hope my client delivers the message
19:21 Limbic_Region I guess it wasn't clear from your statement of "write a lot of error messages" that you needed a rule at all
19:21 [particle] so, there's not enough sugar to distinguish between interp and non-interp
19:21 Limbic_Region neat, they came in out of order
19:22 TimToady in particular, I'm trying to redirect bogus uses of old $@ and $# and such to the new things
19:23 TimToady and I find I want the <panic: ...> forms to work both ways.  :/
19:24 TimToady so *probably* I should leave it at single quotes and make me use panic("...") when I really want to interpolate
19:24 [particle] perhaps it's best to use the desugared form
19:24 Limbic_Region TimToady - oh nevermind - I was tripping over the word "write" - you meant write code and I was thinking the actual error message itself
19:24 TimToady on the theory that more complicate things should look more complicated
19:24 * Limbic_Region really needs a break
19:24 [particle] more common things should be easier, though
19:24 TimToady yeah, that's the flip side
19:24 diakopter TimToady: what about <panic:"oops: $interpMe">
19:25 Limbic_Region When you put in your 40 before Wednesday it makes for a long week
19:25 TimToady well, if it was unintended, then you likely get a compile-time error
19:25 * Limbic_Region gives up
19:25 Limbic_Region When you put in your 40 before Wednesday it makes for a long week
19:25 diakopter Limbic_Region: I suspect all your sent messages are getting here; but they're delayed
19:26 Limbic_Region diakopter - well, they may be getting to feather but they are not all getting to irc
19:27 diakopter oh. it's possible they're getting to us but not to you, however. did you verify against moritz' log? (sorry to question your analysis)
19:27 Limbic_Region I typed the line about 40 about 5 times (2nd time being written)
19:28 Limbic_Region how many times did you see the above line? (2nd time being written)
19:29 Limbic_Region diakopter - I am looking at the logs now, many of the things I type never show up in IRC (2nd time being written)
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19:29 diakopter Limbic_Region: :(  you sure you don't want to give me 15 seconds (now) to make the cgi swap?
19:30 Limbic_Region diakopter - it won't make a difference but if you want to - sure
19:30 diakopter ok; you'll get booted; just wait 10 seconds then reconnect.
19:31 * Limbic_Region waits to get booted
19:32 diakopter ok LR - try now? (assuming you're watching the logs) :)
19:32 spinclad TimToady: how much of a huffman burden would it be to write <panic: "message message $interpolateMe">  (two "'s longer than currently) ?
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19:33 diakopter TimToady: I meant <panic:"$interp"> as opposed to <panic: "$raw">
19:33 diakopter (where "$raw" is sent as '"$raw"', I mean)
19:33 spinclad iow the : replaces the ()s
19:34 Limbic_Region salutations from the great beyond (take 3)
19:34 Limbic_Region diakopter - 3rd time I typed that it showed up
19:34 diakopter silly IE....
19:34 spinclad diakopter: i think we're proposing the same; priority is yours
19:35 Limbic_Region well, combination of IE, corporate proxy and firewall, and CGI:IRC (take 2)
19:36 * Limbic_Region decides to call it a week
19:36 Limbic_Region TTFN all
19:40 TimToady I suppose, given that panic is essentially a method call, that it makes sense to use colon the same way
19:44 [particle] meaning, that panic is the invocant?
19:44 diakopter panic is sorta like catch
19:45 diakopter ^ (thinking out loud - not answering [particle])
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19:49 TimToady panic is the method name; the invocant is implicitly the current match context
19:49 TimToady anyway, that argues for <panic: "foo"> as the proper alterative to <panic("foo")>
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19:51 [particle] and leaves open the possibility for <panic: :message<foo> :exitcode<255>> ?
19:51 [particle] i'm just wondering how much like method calls this will end up being
19:52 [particle] named optional slurpy etc
19:53 diakopter shouldn't a method call be <.panic: ...> for clarity? alternately asked, will the invocant always be the matchee?
19:53 TimToady it's exactly like, except the terminator is >, and the invocant is missing
19:53 [particle] <> implies $/ as invocant
19:54 [particle] except i guess that's not the case with <foo bar>
19:54 [particle] foo is still a method on $/, but bar is a regex
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23:35 meppl good night
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