Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #perl6, 2007-08-16

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo | Niecza | Specs

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All times shown according to UTC.

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06:41 pugs_svnbot r17258 | lwall++ | [metholate] initial whacks at cheated-STD-to-pugs bootstrap
06:41 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17258
06:41 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17258 - Pugs - Trac
06:45 moritz_ TimToady: are you emmiting not-rule p6 from STD?
06:45 moritz_ s/not/non/
06:51 TimToady that's the idea
06:51 pugs_svnbot r17259 | lwall++ | [metholate] extra .to call on new match construction
06:51 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17259
06:51 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17259 - Pugs - Trac
06:51 TimToady basically turns all tokens and rules into method calls
06:52 TimToady paste coming...
06:54 hkb_aw changed the nick to hakobe
06:55 pasteling "TimToady" at 71.139.42.162 pasted "small metholate example" (38 lines, 741B) at http://sial.org/pbot/26882
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06:56 TimToady that example works, by the way.
06:57 TimToady returns (Match.new(("from" => 0), ("to" => 7)),)
06:57 TimToady when called on 123.456
06:58 TimToady doesn't do anything with captures yet though
06:58 TimToady so still kinda useless for a real grammar
06:58 TimToady also haven't implemented alternation yet
06:58 TimToady that's for tomorrow
06:59 TimToady and it very much assumes a well-behaved output of 'cheat Perl-6.0.0-STD.pm'
07:00 TimToady so there are several things the regex parser doesn't even bother to parse right because it knows STD doesn't use it
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07:01 TimToady but it's interesting to "cheat STD.pm | metholate" and see what kind of goop it spits out
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15:19 masak how would I implement haskell's List.group in Perl 6?
15:20 masak I just tried it in Perl 5, and couldn't really think of any natural way to do it
15:20 wolverian reduce
15:20 masak wolverian: please elaborate
15:20 wolverian think how you'd write it with foldl in haskell
15:21 wolverian (or look at the definition)
15:21 moritz_ like $string.comb: rx/(.)$0*/; for lists?
15:21 wolverian or just recursion
15:21 wolverian hm. do we have span?
15:23 masak what is it?
15:23 * masak is just learning haskell
15:23 masak I also found it in the definition of groupBy
15:24 wolverian you can look it up with hoogle
15:24 wolverian it splits the list in two based on a predicate
15:24 masak wolverian: can I get to the source with hoogle?
15:24 masak I didn't see an easy way to do that, maybe I missed it
15:25 wolverian on the documentation page, 'source code' at the top right
15:25 masak thx
15:25 wolverian it just doesn't give you the source to a particular function, only to the whole module. unfortunately
15:26 masak wolverian: I grepped that source file, and didn't find a definition...
15:26 wolverian oh, of span? it's probably imported from GHC.List
15:26 masak ok
15:27 wolverian you can also look at the haskell98 standard prelude, which I think defines all these
15:27 wolverian so that you don't have to dig up ghc's implementation from svn or anything :)
15:27 masak good.
15:28 masak ah -- found it
15:29 * masak is really starting to appreciate Haskell
15:29 masak today I found myself longing for the 'where' keyword in Perl
15:29 wolverian :)
15:30 masak if no-one else makes that a 6PAN module, I will
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15:32 moritz_ do that, please ;)
15:32 masak ;)
15:36 masak any news of audreyt of late?
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15:38 gnuvince @seen audreyt
15:38 lambdabot audreyt is in #perl6 and #haskell. I don't know when audreyt last spoke.
15:39 masak that long ago? oh well...
15:39 gnuvince I'm guessing she still has electricity
15:40 masak gnuvince: is there a context to that guess? I don't understand
15:40 masak gnuvince: ah, ok
15:40 masak she's on IRC, thus she has electricity
15:40 * masak is slow at the end of a long workday
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16:37 lysdexsik hiho
16:39 TimToady a lysdexic is a greek with a broken right hand...
16:40 * masak laughs
16:40 masak just the other day I thought of calling myself Dexter because it sounded right
16:41 TimToady but your laugh is Sinister
16:41 masak most likely
16:41 masak the direction Left has a bad rep through history
16:42 diakopter hee hee
16:43 masak & # food
16:43 lysdexsik if it was the bad direction i should perhaps /nick lysdexsick ;)
16:44 daxim_ I got this between the ' quotes from the perl 6 now video on google:
16:44 daxim_ $ pugs -e'for each(1..*; =<>) {say "Line $^num: $^text";}' < somefilename
16:44 daxim_ but:  *** Cannot bind to non-existing variable: "$num" at -e line 1, column 1
16:47 * Tene suddenly understands masak's pun and laughs more than he probably should while in front of the class.
16:48 lysdexsik but, as TimToady is a linguist he already know that Lys is the flower that symbolize France, Dex is an astronomical measure, and sik (originally Sikh) is a practitioner of an ancient indian religion. Thus the conclusion of all this is that my nick means the original distance between France and India divided several times by the tail length of your average cat is phi!
16:48 TimToady daxim_: eventually that kind of each() is going away, and you'll just use zip(), or 1..* Z =<>
16:49 daxim_ aha
16:49 TimToady lysdexsik: I knew that...
16:49 lysdexsik there's no doubt about it ;)
16:50 TimToady that's why an above-average cat is called phi phi
16:51 TimToady I guess by that reasoning a below-average cat is just called
16:52 * gnuvince has two tattoos: pi on the left arm and phi on the right
16:52 gnuvince What does that make me?
16:53 TimToady confused
16:53 lysdexsik yeah, or FE (FEA originally for Finite element analysis http://en.wikipedia.org/wik​i/Finite_element_analysis) and lix (59, not the answer to life and everything http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LIX) so the just above cat average may also be called Felix
16:53 lambdabot Title: Finite element analysis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
16:56 TimToady I'm not 59 yet, so I guess that makes me prolix
16:56 [particle] gnuvince: i guess it makes you (pi + phi) / pi or about 2.3798
16:57 [particle] (pi + phi)/2 that is
16:57 TimToady pi and 2 aren't all that far apart
16:57 TimToady 'bout 1 apart, I make it
16:57 [particle] ...for large values of one
16:58 TimToady and as we all know, when you divide by 1 it makes no difference
16:59 TimToady hmm, SA means both "left" and "difference" in Japanese
16:59 lysdexsik one must notice that's the at the very beginning of the musical area the the human history that people first "heard" of  phi, for high values of phi, it was thus called hi-fi...
17:00 lysdexsik s/the the/in the/
17:00 TimToady but who was St. Ereo?
17:00 moritz_ he invented the oreo cookies
17:00 TimToady must of been dyslexic
17:00 moritz_ somehow the name got mangled
17:01 lysdexsik ;)
17:01 moritz_ ;-)
17:01 [particle] he was at the beginning of the great vowel shift
17:06 daxim_ @seen svnbot
17:06 lambdabot I haven't seen svnbot.
17:06 pugs_svnbot r17260 | daxim++ | t/README: improved ascii art banner
17:06 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17260
17:06 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17260 - Pugs - Trac
17:06 daxim_ oh, different name
17:08 TimToady lysdexsik: would you like a pugs commit bit?
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17:11 lysdexsik TimToady, i'm not sure what that means... (and consider i'm a bad coder), but i'm aviailable for the next 12 hours, perhaps i can do something simple (for the cage perhaps) and that someone can give an eye on it after that?
17:11 daxim_ one of us! one of us!
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17:11 TimToady we certainly work more on the forgiveness principle than the permission principle
17:11 lysdexsik it's probably better to give it to someone you already trust here
17:11 TimToady we don't trust anyone here...
17:12 TimToady msg me your email and I'll send you a commit bit
17:12 lysdexsik ok ;) i'm ok with a simple task
17:12 lysdexsik ok give me a few minutes to register this user
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17:14 TimToady what do you want for your svn id?  lysdexsik?
17:14 TimToady anything you like, really
17:15 lysdexsik lysdexsik is ok ;)
17:15 fridim_ you say so :)
17:15 fridim_ changed the nick to fridim
17:17 TimToady feather is being slow...
17:17 fridim I'am ready to read http://www.perlmonks.org/?node_id=628746
17:17 lambdabot Title: Getting Involved with Perl 6
17:17 fridim (I would like to help)
17:17 wolverian sslh and www-data's perl are eating cpu
17:17 TimToady agh, load avg of 14
17:18 TimToady well, I'm probably www-data
17:18 wolverian apache2 and spamd
17:18 TimToady that's what commitbit runs as
17:18 moritz_ fridim: so what are you good at? perl? perl6? haskell? C? english?
17:19 daxim_ what is marty pauley's dialect of english called?
17:19 TimToady what is sslh?
17:19 fridim I know a bit of C (how could we say this another way?), and perl
17:20 TimToady lysdexsik: okay, commitbit on its way
17:20 TimToady it is customary to add one's name to AUTHORS as one's first checking to make sure things work
17:20 fridim moritz_, and I'am french
17:21 moritz_ fridim: diakopter++ suggested to write evalbots for kp6 and p6-on-parrot, and maybe combine them with the pugs svn bot...
17:21 moritz_ fridim: maybe you want to do a bit of work in that direction?
17:21 DarkWolf84 goodidea
17:21 TimToady fridim: do you have a commit bit?
17:21 moritz_ fridim: or you could learn perl 6, and write more tests
17:22 fridim TimToady, no.
17:22 moritz_ then /msg TimToady your email address
17:23 fridim ok.
17:24 lysdexsik thanks a lot for the commitbit :)
17:25 TimToady fridim: use "fridim" for your svn id?
17:25 fridim Yes, writing perl6 code to provide more test sounds good to me :)
17:25 fridim TimToady, yep
17:27 TimToady I don't think sslh should be looping
17:27 TimToady I've reniced it
17:27 moritz_ fridim: or porting p5 modules to p6 might be fun as well
17:27 fridim indeed
17:27 TimToady but someone who knows what they're doing should probably glare at it
17:27 moritz_ especially if they don't do much low level stuff (pugs is not so good with that)
17:28 TimToady fridim: commitbit sent
17:28 [particle] sheesh, TimToady, you're turning into an ambassador for perl or something...
17:29 [particle] when did that happen?
17:36 TimToady oh, 'bout onescore and zero years ago.
17:39 [particle]
17:40 TimToady that goes without saying
17:40 [particle] it should have been left unsaid
17:40 TimToady you can say that again
17:41 fridim Ok, commitbit works just fine
17:42 TimToady ...customary...AUTHORS...
17:42 fridim thanks, I have some tickets to read now :)
17:44 Juerd TimToady: You can probably reach feather now
17:44 Juerd TimToady: Could you please try and let me know?
17:44 TimToady yes, I've been handing out commitbits like candy
17:45 Juerd [particle]: And as for your network, I have no idea - please let me know
17:45 [particle] Juerd: working now!
17:45 TimToady Juerd++
17:45 TimToady do you know whether sslh should be looping?
17:46 TimToady I reniced it, but I expect it's probably hung
17:46 Juerd Neat
17:46 Juerd sslh is `supervise`d
17:46 Juerd So it restarts if it's killed, after a 1 sec delay
17:46 TimToady that's good to know
17:46 Juerd I'm seriously considering removing sslh altogether. It's nice, but for some reason hogs resources, and nobody seems to have tuits to fix it.
17:47 Juerd And I'm still waiting for TPF's money to upgrade feather
17:48 Psyche^ joined #perl6
17:48 TimToady okay, killed it, and it restarted, apparently
17:49 Juerd That's what supervise does
17:50 Juerd To shut a supervised service down, cd /services; svc -d $dirname
17:50 Juerd d for down
17:50 Juerd afk  # spare ribs
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17:54 ingy morning
17:55 TimToady ingy: yo!
17:55 [particle] hey there ingy
17:56 moritz_ good evening ;)
17:59 DarkWolf84 good evening ingy
17:59 DarkWolf84 :)
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18:00 DarkWolf84 bot?
18:00 moritz_ no
18:04 ingy Hi fellas
18:04 * ingy is still waiting for some free time to hack on Pugs....
18:05 ingy maybe do a s/libsyck/libyaml/
18:05 ingy unless that's done already
18:05 Psyche^ changed the nick to Patterner
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18:32 lysdexsik from the pugs repositiry, i'm running this:
18:32 REPLeffect joined #perl6
18:32 pasteling "lysdexsik" at 87.65.6.230 pasted "checking test smartlinks (pugs revision 17260)..." (17 lines, 1.6K) at http://sial.org/pbot/26890
18:33 lysdexsik how am i supposed to fix, for example, ERROR: t/builtins/io/dir.t: line 7: pattern ``"closedir"'' if i don't find references in S16 about closedir?
18:36 lysdexsik (in fact if you are searching, there's no closedir keyword in the synopses produced...)
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18:39 moritz_ looking...
18:40 moritz_ there is an IO::DIR::open()
18:41 moritz_ no mention of opendir()
18:42 moritz_ so I guess it should be changed to IO::DIR::open
18:42 moritz_ TimToady: or did you change your mind? ;-)
18:42 moritz_ ;-)
18:43 moritz_ I assume the IO::DIR class will define a close() method as well
18:44 lysdexsik moritz_, so i can safely modify:
18:44 lysdexsik # L<S16/"Filehandles, files, and directories"/"closedir">
18:44 lysdexsik into:
18:45 lysdexsik # L<S16/"Filehandles, files, and directories"/"IO::DIR::close">
18:45 moritz_ sorry, it's Dir, not DIR
18:46 moritz_ and since it doesn't exist yet, mark it with an XXX and point it to IO::Dir::open for so long
18:46 moritz_ that's not entirely correct, but it's not a broken link at least
18:47 lysdexsik ok, i know it sounds stupid, but where do i put the XXX before the smartlinks in a comment?
18:47 moritz_ yes
18:47 lysdexsik ok
18:47 moritz_ or after it
18:47 lysdexsik thanks
18:47 moritz_ np
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19:11 pugs_svnbot r17261 | moritz++ | t/syntax/comments.t: fixed one of two broken smartlinks
19:11 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17261
19:11 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17261 - Pugs - Trac
19:13 [particle] is there a one-line pod comment in perl 6?
19:13 moritz_ not that I know of
19:14 [particle] too bad :(
19:14 moritz_ why?
19:14 [particle] we could use it for smartlinks
19:14 [particle] i expect the smartlink syntax will change
19:15 [particle] i wonder what it will change to
19:15 [particle] needs to be compact and simple, like now
19:15 [particle] but valid perl 6 pod would be nice
19:16 diakopter [particle]: I thought perl 6 pod was now quite up in the air, pending any messages on perl6.language since the "I'm blocking this thread indefinitely" message from Damian?
19:16 [particle] diakopter: i don't expect a complete syntax rewrite
19:17 [particle] honestly, i haven't followed that thread. it got way too deep for my attention
19:17 moritz_ daxim++ # ASCII-Art in t/README
19:18 diakopter [particle]: ironically for you, one-line comments/pod were at the heart of the thread.
19:18 [particle] excellent!
19:20 daxim_ I also uploaded a new smoke, r17259/snapshot/linux
19:20 daxim_ ~1h with nice -15, not bad
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19:23 pugs_svnbot r17262 | moritz++ | fixed smartlink in t/data_types/pair.t
19:23 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17262
19:23 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17262 - Pugs - Trac
19:36 yoghourth i'm looking at the smartlink in t/syntax/comments.t: line 128: pattern "always a line-end comment" (# L<S02/"Whitespace and Comments"/"always a line-end comment">)... it's quite strange, because if the smartlink is "a line-end comment" it matches, but with the word "always" before it doesn't yet it's in S02.html and it doesnt even look special when i look at the html source...?!
19:36 diakopter yoghourth: probably an encoding discrepancy..
19:37 yoghourth diakopter, can you tell me where the S02.html comes from, so i can check?
19:37 franck___ joined #perl6
19:37 yoghourth (it is created when i run util/smartlinks.pl
19:38 [particle] it comes from S02.pod
19:40 [particle] that's in docs/Perl6/Spec
19:40 yoghourth [particle], in fact i was asking because when i do "./pugs$ find . | egrep -i s02" i don't find it... ?
19:40 yoghourth ah ok, i''l look in that
19:40 yoghourth thanks
19:41 yoghourth changed the nick to lysdexsik
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20:11 lysdexsik diakopter, and if it is not an encoding discrepancy?
20:11 lysdexsik diakopter, i check both in hexadecimal, they're the same
20:15 [particle] lysdexsik: my copy of S02.pod doesn't have "always"
20:15 [particle] However, an unexpected closer is treated as a line-end comment, on the
20:24 lysdexsik [particle], checking out again pugs... but the line i was trying to mathc is in S02 (docs/Pel6/Spec/Syntax.pod) "at beginning of line is always a line-end comment", the smartlink is in t/syntax/comments.t line 128
20:25 lysdexsik pugs Checked out revision 17262
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20:25 koye_ changed the nick to koye
20:26 [particle] that's in Literals section, not Whitespace and Comments
20:30 lysdexsik now you can call me stupid, and bash me because i wasted your time
20:30 lysdexsik and mine for over an hour
20:31 lysdexsik i'm sorry for it
20:31 lysdexsik but thanks for pointing that out
20:31 [particle] think of the hours i saved you :)
20:32 lysdexsik i was looking at everything i could probably do wrong, but i didnt even read the html/pod file.... thanks
20:32 [particle] utsl
20:33 lysdexsik utsl?
20:37 [particle] use the spec, luke :)
20:38 lysdexsik i'm new to all this
20:38 lysdexsik ;)
20:38 lysdexsik but thanks for your help :)
20:40 [particle] no, thank you! if i weren't lazy and incompetent, i'd have finished implementing perl 6 by now. you're doing a good job of picking up my slack.
20:46 lysdexsik count on me to always find the weird stuff that have those weird effects on the world you're trying to design, if we would live in The Matrix, nobody would call me Neo, nor the Oracle, but there's chances that they would all see 59 times the same cat moving around in the same way again and again... for one thing i hope you're lazy, but you're far from incompetent ;) thanks for your help !
20:47 lysdexsik it's my first day with a commit-bit and subversion (and even participating on an open souce project), i have some questions, i'll split them:
20:47 lysdexsik 1) i notified all my changes in code with comments including the string "[lysdexsik]" (i'm used to that so it's easy to retrieve changes), i suppose it's unnecessary, so i'll remove them if it is the common use here.
20:48 lysdexsik 2) using ./pugs/util/smartlinks.pl --check /*/*.t t/*/*/*.t, it looks like i've brought down 8 broken link with 0 broken links. I know it's small, but it's a start anyway... how do i commit?
20:48 thoughtpolice lysdexsik: svn commit --username lysdexsik
20:48 thoughtpolice :)
20:48 lysdexsik and it's not to commit [lysdexsik] changes, you all helped me here
20:49 lysdexsik thoughtpolice, is there a way i can check what are the changes between local files and the repository ones?
20:49 thoughtpolice lysdexsik: svn diff
20:49 lysdexsik svn: Can't open file '.svn/entries': No such file or directory
20:50 thoughtpolice lysdexsik: hm :/ i don't work with subversion too much, but you're in the top-most level of the source tree?
20:51 lysdexsik yes
20:51 lysdexsik in the directory i run the svn checkout
20:51 [particle] svn info
20:51 lysdexsik svn: '.' is not a working copy
20:52 [particle] well there you go. something go boom with your working copy
20:52 diakopter inside /pugs
20:52 diakopter pugs/ I mean
20:52 lysdexsik ah ok
20:52 thoughtpolice lysdexsik: if you ran svn checkout in /usr/src to download the source to pugs/, you must be inside pugs/
20:52 diakopter svn info pugs
20:52 lysdexsik ok it works inside pugs
20:52 thoughtpolice lysdexsik: also before you commit make sure you won't cause issues by first running update,
20:52 diakopter lysdexsik: what's your svn username?
20:53 [particle] great, now you can svn diff (or svn st to list filenames)
20:53 lysdexsik lysdexsik
20:53 diakopter ok
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20:53 lysdexsik diakopter, lysdexsik TimToady gave that to me today
20:53 diakopter excellent; great
20:54 lysdexsik :)
20:54 thoughtpolice lysdexsik: while you're inside the pugs tree/ you can commit by just running svn commit --username lysdexsik
20:54 thoughtpolice and giving your password
20:54 thoughtpolice also, since you'll be working with subversion a bit, I recommend you read through some of this:
20:54 thoughtpolice http://svnbook.red-bean.com/
20:54 lambdabot Title: Version Control with Subversion
20:54 lysdexsik well i dont want yet
20:55 lysdexsik i'm used to add [username] to each line i modify (in comment before or after), i guess those line are unecessary?
20:55 diakopter yes; subversion stores that information elsewhere...
20:56 diakopter (so don't duplicate it) :)
20:57 thoughtpolice lysdexsik: yes, generally version control systems are quite aware of who did what change, so you don't necessarily need to duplicate such info.
20:57 [particle] however specifying *why* you made the change is important
20:58 [particle] use -m "foo" for that
20:58 thoughtpolice lysdexsik: like I said you'll be working with subversion a bit so I recommend reading that link I posted above, it's a good free introduction to subversion and you can get the basic tenets down pretty quickly. :)
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21:01 lysdexsik thoughtpolice, i'm downloading the website with the documentation, and removing comments with my name
21:01 lysdexsik thoughtpolice, thanks for your help
21:02 thoughtpolice lysdexsik: np
21:09 lysdexsik hum, looks like i was wrong i still have two errors :(
21:09 lysdexsik but everything seems fine for the subversion explainaition you were all giving me
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21:21 Tene http://weblogs.asp.net/alex_papadimo​ulis/archive/2005/05/25/408925.aspx
21:21 lambdabot http://tinyurl.com/9dzsq
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21:41 Casan__ changed the nick to Casan
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22:16 yoghourth changed the nick to lysdexsik2
22:25 lysdexsik2 i'm having a problem with this last smartlink references, i try to grep the docs/specs but don't find any matches for "one-element" (and forget about mapping on the same line, if it's not the test file)
22:25 lysdexsik2 here's the output:
22:25 pasteling "lysdexsick" at 80.200.229.65 pasted "Problem with this last reference" (9 lines, 613B) at http://sial.org/pbot/26893
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22:30 lysdexsik2 changed the nick to lysdexsik
22:33 lysdexsik what is a `Pair "one-element Mapping"'?
22:33 Tene lysdexsik: (foo => "bar")
22:33 lysdexsik Tene, ok thanks
22:34 [particle] lysdexsik: the third section in smartlink is keywords
22:35 [particle] so it's looking for /.*Pair.*\Qone-element mapping\E.*/ in the Immutable Types section
22:36 lysdexsik [particle], yes but grepping for /one-element/ doesn't bring any results
22:41 lysdexsik and if i look at the text shown for "Immutable Types", and at the test file (t/var/passing_the_pair_class_to_a_sub.t) what does it match? Mapping or Set/Bag? i'm not even sure it shoudl link it to that because there's no explainations for whaat we're testing there....?
22:41 lysdexsik srory for the bad english
22:42 lysdexsik damn, s/srory/sorry/!
22:42 [particle] yep, agreed. the comment below the smartlinks says as much
22:43 lysdexsik perhaps i can leave it like that
22:43 lysdexsik in fact TimToady asked me to have a look at the smartlinks and do something about them
22:43 lysdexsik i didn't knew what so i first tried fixing those
22:44 lysdexsik it's the first time i do something for an opensource project
22:44 lysdexsik i'm a little lost
22:45 lysdexsik may be some can suggest something i can do, i have 8 hours left of free time
22:46 [particle] well, there are plenty of tests that don't have smartlinks
22:46 [particle] adding them where appropriate would be quite helpful
22:47 lysdexsik that's what TimToady told me, but i dont know well enough the synopsis to do something usefull
22:48 [particle] ah, i see.
22:48 lysdexsik if i could make a script to do something, or eventually just make spelling/grammar corrections on the files
22:48 Tene lysdexsik++ # enthusiasm is great
22:48 lysdexsik i will be great for the following hours, tomorrow, i'll be off ;)
22:48 * [particle] wonders if there's a perltidyrc file that could be applied to pugs perl 5 source
22:48 lysdexsik probably for over 6 weeks ;)
22:49 lysdexsik [particle], how do i do that?
22:50 lysdexsik find all the perl file, apply perltidy, and test... but how?
22:52 [particle] well, i'm not sure there are coding standards here
22:52 [particle] or that a .perltidyrc file exists that folks have used before
22:53 [particle] i have some familiarity with pugs, but i'm mostly a parrot developer
22:53 [particle] our standards for committers are higher ;)
22:54 [particle] however, we have many fewer committers because of it :)
22:54 [particle] i believe there's more than one TODO file laying around in the pugs repo
22:55 [particle] also, there's trac.pugscode.org iirc which may have some tickets to work on
23:04 lysdexsik [particle], well i'm a very newbie at this, so it's better i don't touch sensitive stuff... the pugs TODO is non-existent (but grepping thru the directory tree yield over 8700 results...), though there's refenreces to perltidy in the source code, there's no perltidyrc (but i'll share my config with anyone who asks)
23:05 lysdexsik if there's anyone with an idea, or a suggestion about what to do next, i'm open
23:05 [particle] how about adding a perltidyrc file to the repo, and a way to run it on the source.
23:05 [particle] if folks don't like the format, they can change it and rerun
23:06 lysdexsik try it
23:06 SamB how do you avoid the superfluous commits this would cause?
23:07 [particle] you don't
23:07 [particle] either periodic cleanups, or proactive developers, or both
23:08 [particle] that's how parrot does it with our coding standards
23:08 SamB oh, I see what you mean now
23:08 [particle] plus, we have tests that make sure coding standards are being followed. so if developers run 'make test' before a commit, their source should pass the codingstd tests
23:08 lysdexsik [particle], well i don't see HOW?
23:09 SamB probably there aren't any coding standards yet?
23:10 lysdexsik even here, when we use RCS changing perltidy, means creating a new branch 2.0.1.1 and testing, then overwritting into 2.1
23:11 [particle] just run perltidy in your working copy, and commit
23:11 [particle] as long as you don't mix functional changes with it
23:11 SamB so probably you should really make a fresh working copy...
23:12 lysdexsik ok, i dont know for svn
23:12 [particle] sure, or run svn status --no-ignore
23:12 [particle] that'll tell you if you have any files that shouldn't be there, or have been modified
23:13 [particle] well, if they're marked with I it means they're ignored by svn
23:13 lysdexsik but i frequently run perltidy on the stuff we're coding for (medium business apps) and i'm recently running perl's best practice
23:13 lysdexsik (but it sucks a lot)
23:15 lysdexsik and when i mean medium business apps, it means there's 3 developers going near the gobi desert in tents with laptops for the next month and a half...
23:16 lysdexsik thinking about that i loose time
23:16 lysdexsik what can i do
23:16 lysdexsik ?
23:19 [particle] hrmm, i wish i had better ideas
23:19 [particle] obra: ping
23:20 [particle] obra is the perl 6 project manager. if he's around, maybe he has ideas or can point you in the right direction
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23:24 obra [particle]: pong
23:26 [particle] hey there obra
23:27 [particle] we have a new committer looking for things to do for the next 8-12 hours
23:27 [particle] any ideas on what needs doing?
23:28 lysdexsik i'm ready
23:33 * diakopter thinks
23:39 * diakopter still thinks
23:40 diakopter lysdexsik: you're a perl user.  what do you use it for?
23:40 obra [particle]: I'd probably say picking a simple parrot ticket and going after it. or maybe writing tests for a synopsis that has bad coverage
23:41 obra more tests is always wonderful
23:41 lysdexsik diakopter, from downloading the content of web site to checking the integrity of some backup files
23:44 lysdexsik diakopter,  the last interresting trick i did was downloading all the fonts from creamundo.com, it seems protected by a gotcha, but nothing that ocr tools in linux can't solve
23:45 lysdexsik perl is just a glue between different tools
23:45 lysdexsik no, in fact is The Glue between different tools
23:46 lysdexsik s/in fact is/in fact it is/
23:49 ingy I'm kinda interested in starting to migrate pugs from libsyck to libyaml
23:49 ingy anyone know where I should begin?
23:49 lysdexsik and that's what "i use it for", for my work we use perl to analyse scanned documents and reporting some "interesting" statistics
23:50 lysdexsik you're the one working on lib yaml?
23:51 ingy I'm not the author of libyaml, but I wrote the perl5 binding
23:51 lysdexsik ok
23:51 ingy and so far haven't found a single bug in libyaml.
23:51 lysdexsik i perhaps have something interresting for you, give me a few minutes
23:51 ingy there are lots of bugs in libsyck
23:51 ingy ok
23:51 ingy sure
23:51 ingy :)
23:52 lysdexsik thanks
23:52 * ingy grabs the latest pugscode
23:54 lysdexsik ingy: i'm starting an old computer here
23:55 lysdexsik ingy, i had a probelm with yaml re-indenting sutff (you read a yaml file and write it again, the file change each time)
23:56 ingy well that stands to reason
23:56 lysdexsik ?
23:56 ingy there are million ways to yaml encode any given data
23:57 ingy but it will always write in only one way
23:58 ingy well maybe not a million, but more than one
23:59 ingy I assume you are saying that when you Load some given YAML and Dump it again it changes
23:59 ingy then again it should only change to the canonical form once

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