Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2007-08-22

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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00:15 meppl good night
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01:58 pasteling "rhr" at 65.94.7.35 pasted "some hacky edits to metholated STD to work around some pugs bugs" (46 lines, 1.8K) at http://sial.org/pbot/26991
02:01 pasteling "rhr" at 65.94.7.35 pasted "attempt to parse '42+1/(2**4-6)' with STD - fails strangely" (2243 lines, 83.5K) at http://sial.org/pbot/26992
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05:09 szabgab morning
05:09 szabgab it is that time of the year again, I am trying to build and test Pugs and it does not work
05:09 szabgab make went well
05:10 szabgab but make smoke seems to be stuck
05:11 szabgab ext/Benchmark/t/basic.t - finishes but then ext/CGI/t/Dump.t takes forever
05:11 szabgab or rather I stop it after a while...
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05:15 rhr hmm, it doesn't hang for me.  what happens when you run pugs ext/CGI/t/Dump.t ?
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05:32 szabgab I am running plain old "make test" to see what happens there
05:33 szabgab pugs ext/CGI/t/Dump.t  printed 1..1 and now it is eating my CPU, but does not print anything
05:35 rhr interesting, do you get 3 regex parse errors after the 1..1?
05:41 szabgab no, nothing, just 100% load on the CPU
05:42 szabgab in the meantime on the other channel make test seems to be working hard on t/builtins/strings/match without sign of finishing it
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05:44 rhr OK, so it's probably a problem with the pugs parser, which has been behaving erratically lately.  I had it throw spurious errors 14 times in a row (!) earlier today before running the script correctly...
05:45 rhr not sure what to do about it, though...
05:56 szabgab ok, I'll stop this for now and let others eat my CPU for a while
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08:22 meppl good morning
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08:23 pmurias hi
08:25 meppl good morning pmurias
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10:12 daxim_ blast from the past!  http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=00/07/19/203221
10:12 lambdabot Title: Slashdot | Larry Wall Announces Perl 6
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10:52 pmurias ?eval @a := @b;
10:52 pugsbot_r17185 Error: ␤Unexpected " :="␤expecting "::"␤Variable "@a" requires predeclaration or explicit package name
10:52 pmurias ?eval my (@a,@b);@a := @b;
10:52 pugsbot_r17185 []
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11:05 pmurias fglock: hi
11:11 pmurias i'm convinced the current Bind semantics are wrong
11:12 pmurias either it should call BIND on a signature, or emit a assignment to a container
11:16 fglock hmm
11:16 fglock i think / VAR($var).BIND( 42 ) / is ok for containers
11:17 fglock and then / $sig.BIND( $capture ) / for complex structures
11:19 fglock do you have a use case, where is it wrong?
11:22 pmurias $var := @_[0];
11:23 pmurias VAR($var).BIND assumes the specific internal structure of the thing it's binding
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11:24 pmurias $var := @_[0] would work actually
11:25 fglock it doesn't - the thing it is binding is either a Value or a Container
11:27 pmurias does it copy roles and _dispatch right now?
11:27 fglock looking
11:29 pmurias i think an assigment in perl5 code would be more correct
11:29 fglock it only copies or set "readonly"
11:30 fglock it should probably check the Type, but not set it
11:31 pmurias to put it another way what are the advantages of using BIND instead of =
11:31 pmurias only {modified} = 1 come to my mind
11:31 fglock yes, that's one thing
11:33 fglock another one: you can't morph a scalar into an array:
11:33 nipotan changed the nick to nipotaway
11:36 fglock in / $a := @b / - $a is still a scalar
11:38 pmurias i think the / @b := $a / is the case which requires special handling
11:41 pmurias maybe we should defer discussion of it to the YAPC
11:41 pmurias ...
11:42 fglock we could have some tests
11:43 fglock we can use BEGIN blocks to test if the "modified" flags are working properly,
11:43 fglock and for-loop to test scalar x array auto-deref
11:46 pmurias i don't know how to write the first one
11:48 pmurias i think i got the idea
11:49 fglock there are some - see t/kp6/xx-begin-*.t
11:55 pmurias a t/kp6/08-begin-bind.t fails if i run it by hand but works via the harness
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11:55 pmurias s/a//
11:55 Shillo Hi all
11:56 fglock looking
11:56 pmurias Shillo: hi
11:57 pmurias fglock: i should probably commit my version which uses =
11:58 fglock pmurias: it works here
11:58 pugs_svnbot r17377 | pmurias++ | kp6: BIND replaces with =
11:58 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17377
11:58 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17377 - Pugs - Trac
11:59 pmurias after my latest commit too?
12:00 pmurias found the problem
12:02 pmurias the harness uses accepts a more relaxed format the i thought
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12:07 fglock pmurias: what if a user-defined container redefines BIND?
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12:51 pmurias fglock: sorry had my irc window scrolled up, i don't think a user-defined container can redefine BIND
12:51 pugs_svnbot r17378 | pmurias++ | kp6: better undef handling and a test for it
12:51 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17378
12:51 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17378 - Pugs - Trac
12:53 pmurias you can't overload '=' in perl5
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12:57 pmurias some test assume the tap harness requires test numbers
12:57 pmurias is there a way to have it require them or should they be changed
13:11 fglock pmurias: I don't know
13:13 pmurias currently the begin & bind test appears to pass alhough shouldn't
13:17 fglock pmurias: ok, there is no BIND in the spec - only STORE and FETCH
13:20 fglock t/kp6/08-begin-bind.t stopped working after the last commits
13:21 fglock it looks like $counter is no longer logged as modified
13:24 pugs_svnbot r17379 | pmurias++ | kp6: tests fixed to report "not ok" if they don't work
13:24 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17379
13:24 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17379 - Pugs - Trac
13:24 pmurias fglock: i'll fix it
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13:40 pmurias fglock: i'll fix it later today as i need a break now
13:41 fglock pmurias: sure
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15:25 PerlJam in regex, | supports longest token matching, right?
15:25 PerlJam (unlike perl5)
15:26 PerlJam I don't think I actually read that anywhere, but infer it from the discussion on hashes %foo | %bar  does longest-token across the two hashes.
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15:56 fglock PerlJam: yes, | would match in "parallel" like junctions do
15:57 PerlJam yes, but the longest token always wins?
15:58 moritz_ it does
15:58 PerlJam "foo" ~~ / f | fo | foo /;  # Always matches foo
15:58 PerlJam so that makes me wonder if we shouldn't also have a ? modifier on | and & too
15:59 PerlJam "foo" ~~ / f |? fo |? foo /;  # Always matches f
15:59 moritz_ I think you can do this with backtracking control
15:59 PerlJam or @x = <f fo foo>;  "foo" ~~ / |? @x /;
15:59 moritz_ f : | fo : | foo/
15:59 PerlJam moritz_: except there's no guaranteed order with |
15:59 PerlJam you only get ordered matching with ||
16:00 PerlJam (and I don't think that works anyway)
16:00 PerlJam (or, it doesn't quite makes sense to me that it would work anyway)
16:01 PerlJam not sure if I need to change my thinking or | needs more explaining.
16:03 PerlJam "foo" ~~ / ( f | fo | foo ) /;  # What's in $0 ?  IF the answer is a junction, how do I collapse to the "right" one?  OR does that question not even make any sense?
16:03 pugs_svnbot r17380 | pmurias++ | kp6: things are again marked as modified; all test pass again
16:03 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17380
16:03 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17380 - Pugs - Trac
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16:04 pmurias PerlJam: in $0 is foo
16:04 pmurias it's the longest one that matches
16:05 pmurias it's equivalent to "foo" ~~ /(fo?o?) /
16:05 PerlJam pmurias: okay, that jibes with my thinking completely.  But again, I wonder should we modify | with a ? to make it "shortest token"?
16:05 PerlJam "foo" ~~ / ( f |? fo |? foo ) /;  # $0 == "f"
16:06 PerlJam (similar logic applies to & )
16:07 DarkWolf84 the lgic is simple
16:07 DarkWolf84 lazy
16:07 DarkWolf84 :)
16:08 DarkWolf84 the simplest answer is the first posible
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16:14 PerlJam well, maybe similar logic doesn't apply to &
16:22 pmurias PerlJam: do you have a use case for |? ?
16:23 [particle] perljam: what about ||
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16:34 PerlJam [particle]: What about || ?   || is ordered, so we always try the alternatives from left to right.
16:35 PerlJam pmurias: not really, it just appeals to my sense of symmetry that everywhere else we have a "longest" thing, we have a corresponding way to get the "shortest".
16:39 fglock how about <longest f | fo | foo >  and <shortest f | fo | foo > where longest is the default
16:42 pmurias fglock: my positional parameters get globalised :(
16:42 pmurias method f($a) {$a} gets turned into method f($a) {$GLOBAL::a}
16:44 pmurias fglock: what should i do?
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16:51 fglock you need to transform the AST to hve them declared and added to the Pad
16:51 fglock have
17:00 pugs_svnbot r17381 | lwall++ | Missing <sym> on !~ matcher discovered by rhr++
17:00 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17381
17:00 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17381 - Pugs - Trac
17:02 fglock KindaPerl6::Visitor::Global finds undeclared variables and looks them up in GLOBAL
17:04 pmurias i started at first making KindaPerl6::Visitor::Global leave my params alone, but you suggestion in easier
17:06 fglock it's reasonably easy to do this at the AST creation time - it's done elsewhere
17:07 fglock we should probably split the grammar in smaller files, in order to make recompilation faster
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17:15 fglock pmurias: I think when add the sig to the Method node (in token method) we should have the params declared in
17:15 fglock when we add
17:15 pmurias should 'for @(($node.sig).positional) -> $var {say "positional"}' work?
17:16 fglock it look ok
17:16 fglock looks
17:18 fglock pmurias: I'll try modifying the AST node creation - are you working on this too?
17:18 pmurias feel free
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17:31 pugs_svnbot r17382 | fglock++ | [kp6] added stub to declare parameters as 'my'
17:31 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17382
17:31 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17382 - Pugs - Trac
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17:56 fglock pmurias: the variable declaration worked, but i'm not sure how to do the variable initialization - should i commit?
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18:04 fglock ok - i found out
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18:34 pugs_svnbot r17383 | fglock++ | [kp6] method parameters exist as Pad variables at compile-time
18:34 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17383
18:34 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17383 - Pugs - Trac
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18:44 pmurias fglock++ #positional parameters in methods work now
18:44 pmurias :)
18:44 fglock pmurias: it's easy to add params to subs now
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18:46 pmurias yes
18:46 pmurias working now on getting subs to work
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18:52 pugs_svnbot r17384 | fglock++ | [kp6] cleanup 'sub' emitter
18:52 pugs_svnbot r17385 | lwall++ | 1st whack at binding captures
18:52 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17385
18:52 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17385 - Pugs - Trac
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18:57 pmurias fglock: we should use gobby if we work on the same file :)
18:58 fglock ok - but i'm not going to make further changes now :)
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19:00 fglock you can overwrite my last commit
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19:01 pmurias i reverted my own, as yours is better ;)
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19:18 pmurias fglock: should our variables be add_lexicals'ed
19:18 pmurias ?
19:19 fglock we need a separate place for globals,
19:19 fglock but 'our' is a lexical alias to a global, right?
19:19 fglock so maybe yes
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19:32 fglock hmm - our vars are already being added to the pad, but it looks like subroutine decls is missing this
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19:35 pmurias had to let my mother use the computer,
19:36 pmurias i'm working on that part of the grammar now
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19:55 pugs_svnbot r17386 | fglock++ | [kp6] parameters are added to the pad at once, for less closure depth
19:55 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17386
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20:03 pmurias Grammar.pm must be split
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20:06 fglock pmurias: yup
20:07 fglock just move the parts to Grammar/
20:07 pmurias moving term into it's own file would be a good start
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20:18 pmurias can't debug that part of grammar should i commit it now,or tommorow after i work on it some more?
20:24 fglock pmurias: better wait, you'd likely fix it quickly after some sleep
20:24 fglock time to go home here
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21:44 pugs_svnbot r17387 | rhr++ | [Metholated.pm] add _SPACE and _SPACE_rev
21:44 pugs_svnbot r17387 | rhr++ | [metholate] handle $+endargs like $+endstmt
21:44 pugs_svnbot r17387 | rhr++ | [STD] add is_type stub
21:44 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17387
22:01 DarkWolf84 is there any way to open udp socket with listen
22:01 DarkWolf84 ?
22:01 TimToady fg
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