Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2007-08-31

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

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07:25 sunnavy @ask TimToady is rat a valid native type?
07:25 lambdabot Consider it noted.
07:28 masak sunnavy: my guess is no, since it does not have any hardware equivalent
07:31 sunnavy thanks, masak.
07:31 masak np. but I don't really know
07:32 sunnavy let's waiting for TimToady's response, hehe.
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08:13 bloonix good morning
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08:13 pmurias hi
08:13 masak good morning
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08:15 moritz_ hi
08:15 moritz_ is q!foo! still a valid quoting construct?
08:16 pmurias i think so
08:16 pmurias say q<< <<woot>> >>   # says " <<woot>> "
08:17 pmurias sorry it's not
08:17 pmurias breakfeast&
08:23 TimToady q!foo! should work
08:23 lambdabot TimToady: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
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08:27 pugs_svnbot r17529 | moritz++ | t/regex/from_perl6_rules/capture.t
08:27 pugs_svnbot r17529 | moritz++ |  * added smartlinks
08:27 pugs_svnbot r17529 | moritz++ |  * corrected some tests, $1 -> $0
08:27 pugs_svnbot r17529 | moritz++ | This test still needs some care, so if anyone has spare time...
08:27 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17529
08:27 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17529 - Pugs - Trac
08:28 TimToady sunnavy: S02:543 gives rat and complex as examples of native types, though of course a rat composed of two ints is not able to represent as many values as a Rat of two Ints, which are arbitrary precision
08:28 TimToady I am sitting in Vienna airport, btw.  freewifi++
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08:33 pugs_svnbot r17530 | moritz++ | smartlinks for t/regex/from_perl6_rules/charset.t
08:33 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17530
08:33 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17530 - Pugs - Trac
08:34 agentzh moritz_++
08:36 sunnavy TimToady: gotcha, thanks.
08:40 sunnavy TimToady: The reason I asked this question is I didn't find it in the list of native types: S02:756
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08:43 TimToady native type support may be somewhat lacking in 6.0.0, esp for marginal types like that
08:44 sunnavy ok :-)
08:44 pugs_svnbot r17531 | moritz++ | smartlink for t/regex/from_perl6_rules/combchar.t
08:44 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17531
08:44 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17531 - Pugs - Trac
08:44 TimToady and rat and complex were given more as examples of possible native types
08:46 sunnavy oh, are block comments exactly gone in Perl 6?
08:46 masak TimToady: what's a 'possible native type'? is not the set of allowed native types fixed?
08:46 TimToady it'll depend on who implements 6.0.0 first, and whether they manage to get those types in.
08:47 masak ah.
08:47 TimToady lots of things are still negotiable
08:47 TimToady yes, block comments are gone
08:48 masak the negotiability of lots of things is one thing I like about the perl 6 effort. after the initial vertigo/fear, it's a great boon seeing so much feedback go into the spec during implementation
08:48 sunnavy Then maybe you need update S02:125, ;-)
08:51 TimToady fixed, thanks
08:51 sunnavy NP :-)
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08:56 pugs_svnbot r17532 | lwall++ | [STD] more metholation tweaks
08:56 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17532
08:56 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17532 - Pugs - Trac
08:56 TimToady well, they're calling my flight, so...
08:57 TimToady decommuting &
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09:02 pugs_svnbot r17533 | moritz++ | smartlink for context.t
09:02 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17533
09:02 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17533 - Pugs - Trac
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09:12 pugs_svnbot r17534 | moritz++ | smartlink for counted.t
09:12 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17534
09:12 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17534 - Pugs - Trac
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09:21 pugs_svnbot r17535 | moritz++ | smartlink for hash_cap.t
09:21 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17535
09:21 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17535 - Pugs - Trac
09:27 pugs_svnbot r17536 | moritz++ | smartlink for inline.t
09:27 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17536
09:27 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17536 - Pugs - Trac
09:33 pugs_svnbot r17537 | moritz++ | smartlink for litvar.t
09:33 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17537
09:33 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17537 - Pugs - Trac
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09:35 pugs_svnbot r17538 | moritz++ | smartlink for lookaround.t
09:35 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17538
09:35 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17538 - Pugs - Trac
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09:44 pugs_svnbot r17539 | moritz++ | smartlinks for named_cap.t
09:44 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17539
09:44 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17539 - Pugs - Trac
09:47 pugs_svnbot r17540 | moritz++ | smartlink for newline.t
09:47 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17540
09:47 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17540 - Pugs - Trac
09:50 pugs_svnbot r17541 | moritz++ | smartlink for null.t
09:50 pugs_svnbot r17542 | moritz++ | smartlink for overlapping.t
09:50 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17542
09:50 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17542 - Pugs - Trac
09:56 pugs_svnbot r17543 | moritz++ | smartlink for pos_modifier.t
09:56 pugs_svnbot r17544 | moritz++ | smartlink for prior.t
09:56 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17544
09:56 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17544 - Pugs - Trac
09:57 moritz_ that's enough for now ;)
09:57 sunnavy moritz++
09:58 * agentzh is glad to see moritz_ becomes a happy smartlinker.
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10:13 pugs_svnbot r17545 | pmurias++ | [kp6] infix &,|,^ and fixed junction stringification
10:13 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17545
10:13 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17545 - Pugs - Trac
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10:22 pmurias is there a simplified implementation of Test.pm somewhere or is writing a custom one the best choice for a young implementation?
10:24 agentzh pmurias: in parrot's repos?
10:25 agentzh pmurias: pmichaud has one...i think.
10:26 pmurias thanks
10:26 pmurias found iy
10:26 pmurias s/iy/it/
10:28 pmurias mp6 has one too, i should look at find's output more carefully next time ;)
10:30 agentzh okay
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11:29 pugs_svnbot r17546 | moritz++ | smartlink for qinterp.t
11:29 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17546
11:29 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17546 - Pugs - Trac
11:32 pugs_svnbot r17547 | moritz++ | smartlink for repeat.t
11:32 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17547
11:32 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17547 - Pugs - Trac
11:33 moritz_ where is a list of definition of predefined named rules?
11:33 moritz_ like ident, digit, xdigit etc.
11:34 moritz_ they are used as examples in S05, but they are not really defined
11:35 agentzh moritz_: afaik, there's no such a list in S05.
11:35 moritz_ well, there should be ;)
11:35 agentzh moritz_: i was looking for the same thing while tweaking PCR :)
11:36 agentzh moritz_: strongly agreed :)
11:37 moritz_ should <ident> consider unicode chars as identifier?
11:37 moritz_ I think so, but I'm not sure
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11:43 agentzh moritz_: i think Perl's identifiers could be utf-8. i think <ident> should be consistent with that :)
11:44 pugs_svnbot r17548 | pmurias++ | [kp6] overelaxed the grammar to allow \n as the statement separator
11:44 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17548
11:44 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17548 - Pugs - Trac
11:46 pasteling "moritz_" at 84.148.8.83 pasted "a first shot at builtin rules" (18 lines, 345B) at http://sial.org/pbot/27212
11:48 agentzh hmm, kp6's grammar only uses a very restricted subset of p6 regex syntax...even quantifiers are eliminated...that's mp6 syntax...i guess...
11:48 agentzh and...rule foo { ... } is not used either...
11:48 moritz_ yes, much is done with recursion
11:48 agentzh *nod*
11:49 agentzh token foo { ... } results in tons of <?ws>...
11:49 agentzh which affects the readability...
11:50 moritz_ agentzh: the plan is to bootstrap kp6 with kp6, which is much more hackable than mp6...
11:50 agentzh but anyway...bootstrapping was the main goal while that kp6 grammar was written...
11:50 agentzh moritz_: *nod*
11:50 moritz_ agentzh: which means that once it is bootstrapped, such things are easier fixable
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11:52 moritz_ token ws { [<?before <alnum>> \s+ <?after <alnum>>] | <?space>* }
11:52 moritz_ does this look reasonable?
11:53 moritz_ s/space/blank/ of course
11:53 agentzh moritz_: <ws> doesn't take P6 comments into account?
11:54 moritz_ agentzh: only in STD.pm, in "normal" grammars it's just a "magical whitespace"
11:54 agentzh k
11:55 moritz_ is the <before>/<after> magic reasonable?
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12:05 masak how old is the parrot repo? the pugs repo revision number is in the 17000s now, and parrot's is hitting 21000 soon
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12:07 pugs_svnbot r17549 | pmurias++ | [kp6]
12:07 pugs_svnbot r17549 | pmurias++ | changed to --do Visitor1,Visitor2 which should work everywhere
12:07 pugs_svnbot r17549 | pmurias++ | run some more test from sanity
12:07 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17549
12:07 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17549 - Pugs - Trac
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12:10 pmurias sorry broke kp6
12:14 pugs_svnbot r17550 | pmurias++ | [kp6] fixed last commit
12:14 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17550
12:14 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17550 - Pugs - Trac
12:24 sunnavy masak: the parrot's log of revision 1, was on 2001-08-29
12:26 masak thx
12:26 masak it's probably quite a meaningless comparison
12:26 masak but pugs does seem to have a higher average commit rate
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12:59 moritz_ masak: pugs has a lot of sub projects (for example the test suite) and many, many commiters
13:01 masak moritz_: yes... that's why the comparison is mostly meaningless
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13:35 pugs_svnbot r17551 | moritz++ | util/perl6.vim: more builtin char classes
13:35 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17551
13:35 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17551 - Pugs - Trac
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17:46 xahlee hi... a perl question. What's the most common package for sending email?
17:47 moritz_ perl questions are generally more on topic in #perlhelp or #perl
17:48 moritz_ here is perl6 development
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17:48 xahlee moritz_: am banned in perl for like a year now. Rather unreasonably
17:50 moritz_ xahlee: that doesn't make the question here more "on topic"
17:50 moritz_ there are still other resources like perlmonks.org
17:51 moritz_ and you could ask one of the #perl ops to unban you
17:52 PerlJam xahlee: And there are other networks too.  (Are you banned on all #perl ?)
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17:52 xahlee PerlJam: just in freenode. (i have the transcript saved)
17:53 xahlee haven't used any other irc much really
17:53 PerlJam xahlee: Also, search.cpan.org + cpan ratings should tell you something useful.
17:54 xahlee i just looked at faq... it uses Mail::Mailer
17:54 xahlee as of 2001, i recall it has a bug that its from field does not work? anyway... gonna test it now.
17:56 xahlee darn it's not bundled.
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18:05 xahlee umm... cpan is asking me for ncftpget? not familiar with that. How do i proceed?
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18:17 Blwood[pizza] apt-get install ncftp
18:17 amnesiac lftp++
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18:20 rhandom eval if 42 -> $i { $i.say }
18:21 rhandom ?eval if 42 -> $i { $i.say }
18:21 pugsbot_r17185 Error: Cannot bind to non-existing variable: "$i"
18:21 rhandom ?eval for 42 -> $i { $i.say }
18:22 pugsbot_r17185 OUTPUT[42␤] undef
18:22 rhandom Was "if" going to support pointy blocks and pass arguments to them ?
18:23 rhandom There was some discussion several months back , but I forgot the outcome
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18:25 rhandom i suppose the would be odd - especially if this was supported:
18:25 rhandom if 0 -> $i { say "yup $i" } else -> $i { say "yup $i" }
18:25 rhandom i can see use for the if case
18:25 rhandom but the else case starts to get odd
18:25 rhandom and i guess it implies that the topic of the if would clobber the $_ during the if
18:26 rhandom which brough to my mind that point subs on ifs were nixed
18:28 rhr I think pointies are still allowed there, S04:1037 has one
18:30 rhr yes, S04:209 specs it, but doesn't mention the else case (which does look weird)
18:30 pugs_svnbot r17552 | renormalist++ | [kp6]
18:30 pugs_svnbot r17552 | renormalist++ |  * disable unsecure code by setting env KP6_DISABLE_UNSECURE_CODE
18:30 pugs_svnbot r17552 | renormalist++ |  * Num datatype added (correctly done? please review)
18:30 pugs_svnbot r17552 | renormalist++ |  * more tests for grep
18:30 pugs_svnbot r17552 | renormalist++ |  * MOP.pm: more dynamic require of runtime classes and error handling.
18:30 pugs_svnbot r17552 | renormalist++ |    - This solves some annoying self referential issues when a Perl6
18:30 pugs_svnbot r17552 | renormalist++ |      file compiled but the resulting Perl5 code failed so that not
18:30 pugs_svnbot r17552 | renormalist++ |      even MOP could be loaded when we correct that issue.
18:30 pugs_svnbot r17552 | renormalist++ |  * Makefile enhancements:
18:30 pugs_svnbot r17552 | renormalist++ |     - now stop on compile errors instead of creating empty files,
18:31 pugs_svnbot r17552 | renormalist++ |       which broke successive compile runs
18:31 pugs_svnbot r17552 | renormalist++ |     - test targets for just subsections: test_(io|math|base)
18:31 pugs_svnbot r17552 | renormalist++ |     - make test now depend on make all
18:31 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17552
18:31 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17552 - Pugs - Trac
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18:34 rhandom Binding within an else automatically binds the value tested by the previous if or elsif,
18:34 rhandom (from S04)
18:35 rhandom However, use of $_ with a conditional statement's block is not considered sufficiently explicit to turn a 0-ary block into a 1-ary function (also from S04)
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18:38 rhandom I'm guessing that means that the following should work
18:38 rhandom if (42 but false) -> $i { say "yup $i" } else { say "nope $i" }
18:40 rhandom it may be good to have an example in the synopsis that shows an elsif and else with pointy blocks
18:40 rhandom ah
18:40 rhandom chagrin
18:41 rhandom there is one
18:41 rhandom please forget i was even here :)
18:41 rhandom if    testa() -> $a { say $a }
18:41 rhandom elsif testb() -> $b { say $b }
18:41 rhandom else          -> $b { say $b }
18:41 rhandom (from S04)
18:48 renormalist &tell
18:48 renormalist Bummer! :-)
18:48 pugs_svnbot r17553 | renormalist++ | cperl-mode:
18:48 pugs_svnbot r17553 | renormalist++ |  - take in again the differentiation between Hash and Block
18:48 pugs_svnbot r17553 | renormalist++ |    (not perfect yet but better than without it)
18:48 pugs_svnbot r17553 | renormalist++ |  - more Type keywords
18:48 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17553
18:48 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17553 - Pugs - Trac
18:49 renormalist How was the syntax to leave a msg in the irc to someone?
18:49 [particle] @tell foo bar
18:51 renormalist thx, I try
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18:59 renormalist @tell fglock You could please have a look at my changeset 17552, especially the new type Num. I also made the 'make' and the loading of runtime in MOP more robust on errors. It made the work easier for me, but if you find it stupid, feel free to revert. :-)
18:59 lambdabot Consider it noted.
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19:33 moritz_ #kp6 mkdir '/tmp/foo/'
19:33 exp_evalbot r17553: OUTPUT[DISPATCH: calling APPLY KindaPerl6::Runtime::Perl5::Dispat​chSugar::Dispatch=HASH(0x83531d4) on invalid object:$VAR1 = {};␤␤ at lib5/KindaPerl6/Runtime/Perl5/MOP.pm line 32␤ main::DISPATCH('undef', 'APPLY', 'KindaPerl6::Runtime::Perl5::Dispa​tchSugar::Dispatch=HASH(0x83...') called at
19:33 exp_evalbot ..- line 15␤]
19:37 pugs_svnbot r17554 | moritz++ | [evalbot] set KP6_DISABLE_UNSECURE_CODE environment variable for kp6
19:37 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17554
19:37 exp_evalbot joined #perl6
19:37 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17554 - Pugs - Trac
19:37 exp_evalbot joined #perl6
19:37 moritz_ #kp6 mkdir '/tmp/foo'
19:37 exp_evalbot r17554: OUTPUT[DISPATCH: calling APPLY KindaPerl6::Runtime::Perl5::Dispat​chSugar::Dispatch=HASH(0x83531d4) on invalid object:$VAR1 = {};␤␤ at lib5/KindaPerl6/Runtime/Perl5/MOP.pm line 32␤ main::DISPATCH('undef', 'APPLY', 'KindaPerl6::Runtime::Perl5::Dispa​tchSugar::Dispatch=HASH(0x83...') called at
19:37 exp_evalbot ..- line 15␤]
19:40 moritz_ @tell renormalist I'd rather rely on a command line option that sets a global constant for unsafe operations
19:40 lambdabot Consider it noted.
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20:24 pmurias @tell renormalist the problems with errors screwing up the build should probably be fixed in a more general way
20:24 lambdabot Consider it noted.
20:26 pmurias @tell renormalist the implementation of srand seems strange to me defined $defined_value return 0
20:26 lambdabot Consider it noted.
20:28 pmurias @tell Num seems fine
20:28 lambdabot Consider it noted.
20:28 pmurias renormalist++ #making make exit on errors
20:28 * [particle] wonders if types can be named after operators
20:28 [particle] my return $x;
20:29 pmurias ?
20:29 [particle] my Int $x;
20:30 pmurias what would my return $x do?
20:30 [particle] create a variable $x of type 'return'
20:30 [particle] class return { ... }
20:31 pmurias i hope it would be forbiden
20:31 pmurias class class {}
20:31 [particle] me too, but i don't remember reading it
20:32 [particle] yep, could get really messy
20:32 [particle] class say {}; say.say
20:32 [particle] say.WHAT
20:33 pmurias calling the type Return doesn't cost you anything if you want to reuse the word
20:33 pmurias is it possible to have both class foo {} and sub foo {}
20:33 pmurias ?
20:34 [particle] blind doe.
20:35 pmurias what does 'blind doe' mean?
20:35 [particle] no-eyed deer
20:35 [particle] :P
20:49 bloonix hello
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21:37 pugs_svnbot r17555 | moritz++ | t/regex/modifiers.t:
21:37 pugs_svnbot r17555 | moritz++ |  * testing :ignorecase for greek chars
21:37 pugs_svnbot r17555 | moritz++ |  * :basechar tests
21:37 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17555
21:38 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17555 - Pugs - Trac
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21:50 pugs_svnbot r17556 | moritz++ | added first repetion modifier tests
21:50 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17556
21:50 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17556 - Pugs - Trac
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22:54 GeJ Good M��se all
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22:59 wolverian that isn't utf8 methinks
23:09 allbery_b it worked here and I should be set to utf8
23:10 allbery_b λ
23:12 wolverian most likely your client recoded it. mine is picky for some reason
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23:46 Limbic_Region hey TimToady - how was Vienna
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