Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2007-09-03

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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Time Nick Message
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04:02 sunnavy from S02:1587  When "strict" is in effect (which is the default except for one-liners), non-qualified variables (such as $x and @y) are only looked up from lexical scopes, *but* never *from* package scopes.
04:03 sunnavy maybe never *beyond* package scopes?
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04:13 TimToady it doesn't look in the package scopes at all, unless you've installed a lexical alias via "our"
04:13 TimToady or otherwise imported the symbol into your lexical scope
04:18 sunnavy gotcha, thanks
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05:15 sunnavy Is it permitted that whitespaces are between a symbolic unary operator and its operand? like | $capture?
05:16 allbery_b it should be but pugs might be somewhat broken in that regard
05:16 allbery_b (collision between unary operators and the former filetest operators, which went away in part because of that brokenness)
05:19 sunnavy thanks, allbery_b :-)
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06:04 pugs_svnbot r17613 | moritz++ | [kp6] added bootstrap.pl
06:04 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17613
06:04 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17613 - Pugs - Trac
06:05 moritz_ bootstrap.pl imitates `make` because I'm too dump to do it in the Makefile
06:14 meppl good morning
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06:15 moritz_ good morning meppl ;)
06:16 meppl good morning moritz
06:17 * moritz_ wonders if kp6's Runtime/Perl5/*.pm is compatible with kp6's compiled modules, or just with mp6's output
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06:47 pmurias morning
06:47 pmurias moritz_: hi
06:48 moritz_ hi pmurias
06:48 DarkWolf84 hi there
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06:48 pmurias most of Runtime/Perl5/*.pm is compatible with code generated by kp6
06:48 pmurias DarkWolf84: hi
06:54 * pmurias hates Visitor::Global
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07:06 pmurias #pugs say f();sub f {"hello"}
07:06 exp_evalbot OUTPUT[hello␤]
07:06 pmurias #pugs say f();my sub f {"hello"}
07:06 exp_evalbot OUTPUT[hello␤]
07:07 pmurias #pugs say $f;my $f = "hello"
07:07 exp_evalbot OUTPUT[*** ␤    Unexpected ";"␤    expecting "::"␤    Variable "$f" requires predeclaration or explicit package name␤    at /tmp/O5RUPKVUy1 line 1, column 7␤]
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07:09 pmurias #pugs undecleared()
07:09 exp_evalbot OUTPUT[*** No such subroutine: "&undecleared"␤    at /tmp/1w5KgL1RSL line 1, column 1 - line 2, column 1␤]
07:10 pmurias #pugs if (0) {undecleared()}
07:10 exp_evalbot OUTPUT[undef␤]
07:10 pmurias #pugs if (0) {&undecleared()}
07:10 exp_evalbot OUTPUT[*** ␤    Unexpected "()}"␤    expecting "::" or signature value␤    Variable "&undecleared" requires predeclaration or explicit package name␤    at /tmp/zvP4JscJ34 line 1, column 21␤]
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07:11 Yappo hi
07:11 pmurias Yappo: hi
07:13 pmurias where is it speced int the synopsis that subroutine can be called before declaration
07:13 pmurias ?
07:13 pmurias and that there existence is checked at runtime?
07:15 moritz_ perhaps one of the tests has an enlightening smartlink?
07:15 moritz_ there is one test that doesn't even compile with current pugs
07:15 moritz_ a short look into a recent smoke should reveal it
07:16 pmurias found it
07:17 pmurias pugs isn't fully right here
07:17 pmurias if (0) {undecleared()} should fail
07:17 bloonix morning
07:17 pmurias S02:2504
07:17 pmurias bloonix: morning
07:18 moritz_ bloonix: moin
07:19 moritz_ so it is indeed legal to call a sub before it is declared
07:19 moritz_ what about referencing it? my $a = &foo; sub foo { return 'bar' };
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07:23 DarkWolf84 why is used -Ilib in bootstrap.pl
07:23 gaal moose
07:25 DarkWolf84 so p5 can read p6?
07:26 DarkWolf84 I don't get it
07:26 moritz_ it should be -Ilib5 actually
07:27 moritz_ my local kp6-perl5.pl has an 'use "lib5";' so I didn't recognize it
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07:34 DarkWolf84 in that case kp6 uses no module path like mp6
07:35 moritz_ wait, the repo version has this line: use lib '../v6-MiniPerl6/lib5', 'lib5';
07:36 pmurias moritz_: the sub magic only happens for barewords
07:36 pugs_svnbot r17614 | moritz++ | [kp6] removed bogus -Ilib from bootstrap.pl, DarkWolf84++
07:36 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17614
07:36 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17614 - Pugs - Trac
07:36 moritz_ pmurias: ok, then a few test cases are invalid
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07:39 renormalist [mp6 in context of kp6] Can I give params into a class via new() in any way? Class.new(42) at least compiles, but I don't know how to access that from inside the class.
07:40 moritz_ I think mp6 had a (weird) way of initializing members, but I don't know if kp6 implements that
07:41 pmurias in mp6 ::Foo(key=>value)
07:41 DarkWolf84 like in p6
07:41 DarkWolf84 :)
07:41 pmurias look into the kp6 compiler internals for example
07:41 pmurias *examples
07:42 moritz_ I'd use Foo.new(key => value) in p6 ;)
07:45 pugs_svnbot r17615 | pmurias++ | [kp6] for decleares a topic but Global dosn't see it
07:45 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17615
07:45 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17615 - Pugs - Trac
07:47 DarkWolf84 ?eval class X {42}; my $foo .= X.new(a);
07:47 DarkWolf84 :)
07:47 pugsbot_r17185 Error: No such subroutine: "&a"
07:47 DarkWolf84 oops
07:47 DarkWolf84 ?eval class X {42}; my $foo .= X.new('a');
07:48 pugsbot_r17185 Error: Must only use named arguments to new() constructor␤Be sure to use bareword keys.
07:48 moritz_ ?eval class X { has $.a;}; my $foo = X.new(a=>2);
07:48 moritz_ ?eval class X { has $.a;}; my $foo = X.new(a=>2); say $foo.perl
07:48 pugsbot_r17185 \X.new(("a" => 2),)
07:49 moritz_ ?eval class X { has $.a;}; my $foo = X.new(:a(2)); say $foo.perl
07:49 pugsbot_r17185 OUTPUT[\X.new(("a" => 2),)␤] Bool::True
07:49 pugsbot_r17185 OUTPUT[\X.new(("a" => 2),)␤] Bool::True
07:49 DarkWolf84 I know
07:49 DarkWolf84 just show the error :>
07:54 DarkWolf84 in spec constructor accept only position args
07:55 moritz_ and pugs implements it that way
08:01 renormalist re
08:01 renormalist pmurias: But how do I access key from inside Foo?
08:01 renormalist $.key ?
08:02 renormalist damn, work & :-)
08:02 renormalist back in 1h
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08:18 pmurias school&
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09:29 GeJ out of curiosity, any got news from audreyt?
09:30 GeJ ...anyone...
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10:52 moritz_ GeJ: I think that was the answer ;/ (ie nothing)
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11:51 fglock i'm finally back to irc - starting on a new computer
11:52 fglock i missed the bootstrapping fun :P
11:52 moritz_ fglock: it's not over ;)
11:53 moritz_ fglock: kp6 compiles itself without error messages, but it doesn't run yet
11:53 fglock ok
11:54 fglock i've got no svn yet
11:54 moritz_ poor man ;)
11:54 moritz_ should we collect a bit of money to get you one?
11:54 moritz_ ;-)
11:55 fglock heh - firewall problems, should be fixed soon
11:55 fglock i'll try through feather
11:57 moritz_ where are you know?
11:57 fglock lisbon, portugal
11:58 moritz_ at your new work?
11:58 fglock yes
12:01 fglock i'm getting this error in feather, using svk up -s: A checksum mismatch occurred: Base checksum mismatch on '/mirror/pugs/src/perl6/Perl-6.0.0-STD.pm'
12:01 moritz_ Perl-6.0.0-STD.pm was removed
12:02 moritz_ and renamed to STD.pm
12:02 moritz_ so try to remove it manually, and see if that helps
12:02 fglock ok
12:03 pmurias b
12:03 pmurias fglock: hi
12:03 fglock pmurias: hi!
12:05 pmurias Visitor::Global is a big hindrance
12:05 fglock hmm
12:05 pmurias i'm thinking/experimenting how to get rid of it
12:06 fglock one possible way is to install a my-subroutine, that calls the GLOBAL version
12:06 fglock this sub can be overwritten
12:07 fglock by a user sub
12:07 pmurias binding subs might be better the creating wrapers
12:08 pmurias s/the/then/
12:08 fglock sure
12:08 fglock so if you use print(), then it would bind my &print := GLOBAL::print
12:09 fglock until you define your own print()
12:09 pmurias yes
12:11 fglock otoh, what problem do you get with the current version?
12:13 pmurias with for loops
12:13 pmurias Global turns the $topic into $GLOBAL::topic
12:15 fglock that's because the topic is not being created, it's a bug in the AST generator
12:15 pmurias $Main::{$_} = $GLOBAL::{$_} for keys %GLOBAL::; should be enough to replace Global
12:15 fglock it should create a Pad with the variable
12:16 fglock i'd rather fix 'if' instead
12:17 pmurias ah i so see what you mean
12:17 fglock i'm reinstalling, will be back to hacking in an hour or so
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12:20 pmurias fglock: k
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12:32 pugs_svnbot r17616 | renormalist++ | [kp6]
12:32 pugs_svnbot r17616 | renormalist++ | - kp6-perl5.pl gives options to emitters, currently used for a secure flag
12:32 pugs_svnbot r17616 | renormalist++ | - secure mode now implemented via setting a constant and checking for it
12:32 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17616
12:32 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17616 - Pugs - Trac
12:32 renormalist moritz_: you can now use kp6-perl5.pl --secure    to compile in the eval bot
12:33 moritz_ renormalist: thanks ;)
12:34 moritz_ renormalist: I already did that, even though it had no efect before
12:34 moritz_ as of r17585
12:34 renormalist it does it now with your suggested constant way
12:34 moritz_ #kp6 use IO;
12:34 exp_evalbot r17616: OUTPUT[DISPATCH: calling  on invalid object:$VAR1 = 'perl';␤␤ at lib5/KindaPerl6/Runtime/Perl5/MOP.pm line 32␤      main::DISPATCH('perl') called at - line 16␤]
12:35 renormalist #kp6 mkdir('/tmp/foo');
12:35 exp_evalbot r17616: OUTPUT[DISPATCH: calling APPLY KindaPerl6::Runtime::Perl5::DispatchSugar::Dispatch=HASH(0x8362eb4) on invalid object:$VAR1 = {};␤␤ at lib5/KindaPerl6/Runtime/Perl5/MOP.pm line 32␤ main::DISPATCH('undef', 'APPLY', 'KindaPerl6::Runtime::Perl5::DispatchSugar::Dispatch=HASH(0x83...') called at
12:35 exp_evalbot ..- line 16␤]
12:35 renormalist hm
12:36 renormalist #kp6 say(42);
12:36 exp_evalbot r17616: OUTPUT[42␤]
12:36 renormalist #kp6 Math.rand(5);
12:36 exp_evalbot r17616: OUTPUT[3.80142717542642␤]
12:37 renormalist #kp6 IO.mkdir('/tmp/foo');
12:37 exp_evalbot r17616: OUTPUT[forbidden code at lib5/KindaPerl6/Runtime/Perl5/IO.pm line 5 (KP6_DISABLE_UNSECURE_CODE)␤               at lib5/KindaPerl6/Runtime/Perl5/Kp6Security.pm line 9.␤]
12:37 renormalist ah, that's my code
12:37 renormalist mkdir is protected
12:37 moritz_ renormalist++
12:38 moritz_ though I'd think the normal spelling is "insecure", not "unsecure" ;)
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12:43 pugs_svnbot r17617 | renormalist++ | - spelling fixes
12:43 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17617
12:43 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17617 - Pugs - Trac
12:45 renormalist moritz_: should now be fixed
12:45 pugs_svnbot r17618 | renormalist++ | - spelling fixes again, damn :-)
12:45 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17618
12:45 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17618 - Pugs - Trac
12:45 renormalist #kp6 IO.mkdir('/tmp/foo');
12:45 exp_evalbot r17618: OUTPUT[forbidden code at lib5/KindaPerl6/Runtime/Perl5/IO.pm line 5␤               at lib5/KindaPerl6/Runtime/Perl5/Kp6Security.pm line 9.␤]
12:46 renormalist #kp6 Math.rand(5);
12:46 exp_evalbot r17618: OUTPUT[0.770446621249921␤]
12:46 renormalist #kp6 Math.srand(5);
12:46 exp_evalbot r17618: OUTPUT[1␤]
12:46 renormalist #kp6 Math.rand(5);
12:46 exp_evalbot r17618: OUTPUT[4.13381566446789␤]
12:46 renormalist #kp6 Math.srand(5);
12:46 exp_evalbot r17618: OUTPUT[1␤]
12:46 renormalist #kp6 Math.rand(5);
12:46 exp_evalbot r17618: OUTPUT[3.53244544509382␤]
12:46 renormalist hm, not sure this works correctly
12:47 renormalist anyway, afk &
12:47 fglock oops - Data::Bind is not installing from CPAN (used by v6.pm)
12:47 renormalist #kp6 Math.srand(2); Math.rand(5);
12:47 exp_evalbot r17618: OUTPUT[4.56216326718733␤]
12:48 renormalist #kp6 Math.srand(2); Math.rand(5);
12:48 exp_evalbot r17618: OUTPUT[4.56216326718733␤]
12:48 renormalist #kp6 Math.srand(2); Math.rand(5);
12:48 exp_evalbot r17618: OUTPUT[4.56216326718733␤]
12:48 renormalist #kp6 Math.srand(2); Math.rand(5); Math.rand(5);
12:48 exp_evalbot r17618: OUTPUT[0.795414544861472␤]
12:48 fglock ah, it's the "Module::Build is not configured with C_support" thing
12:49 moritz_ renormalist: that's how I'd expect it to work
12:49 renormalist yes
12:50 renormalist i was confused but single eval bot runs are disconnected from another, of course
12:50 renormalist so the srand had no effect first time I thought it was wrong
12:50 renormalist so now I'm really afk :-)
12:50 moritz_ evalbot fork()s for each ^#(kp6|eval|p6|pugs|nqp) command
12:51 renormalist yes, and that's a Good Thing
12:54 pugs_svnbot r17619 | pmurias++ | [kp6] for generates right AST (dosn't work)
12:54 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17619
12:54 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17619 - Pugs - Trac
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13:05 pmurias ruoso: hi
13:06 ruoso pmurias, hi
13:12 ruoso pmurias, so... I saw kp6 can compile itself... is there already any plan for the next steps?
13:13 moritz_ ruoso: it compiles itself, but the result doesn't work yet :(
13:13 ruoso moritz_, any idea why?
13:14 ruoso let's do it the same way I was trying to make the bootstrap... creating test cases for the features that are failing...
13:14 moritz_ ruoso: just run ./bootstrap.pl && cd bootstrap
13:14 moritz_ copy kp6-perl5.pl there, and then executed it with -Ilib
13:15 pmurias ruoso: for dosn't work
13:16 moritz_ #kp6 for 0..2 { say $_; };
13:16 exp_evalbot r17619: OUTPUT[Syntax Error␤no method 'APPLY' in Class 'Int'␤]
13:16 moritz_ #kp6 for 0..2 -> $a { say $a; };
13:16 exp_evalbot r17619: OUTPUT[Syntax Error␤no method 'APPLY' in Class 'Int'␤]
13:16 pmurias #kp6 for (0,1,2) -> $a {say $a}
13:16 exp_evalbot r17619: OUTPUT[Syntax Error␤DISPATCH: calling APPLY on invalid object:$VAR1 = {};␤␤ at lib5/KindaPerl6/Runtime/Perl5/MOP.pm line 32␤  main::DISPATCH('undef', 'APPLY') called at - line 16␤]
13:17 pmurias #kp6 @a=(1,2,3);for (@a) -> $a {say $a}
13:17 exp_evalbot r17619: OUTPUT[Syntax Error␤]
13:17 ruoso pmurias, I've got some warnings about the redefinition of KindaPerl6::Grammar.__rule_block1
13:17 ruoso is that related to the code blocks inside rules?
13:17 pmurias yes
13:17 pmurias the count is per file
13:17 ruoso that is a problem, isn't it?
13:17 pmurias yes
13:18 pmurias it should also add the rule name where the block appears
13:18 ruoso and the file name mangled somehow
13:18 moritz_ why not package name?
13:18 ruoso not only package
13:18 ruoso but file
13:18 ruoso like
13:18 ruoso __rule_block_filename_line_inc
13:18 ruoso __rule_block_$filename_$line_$inc i mean
13:19 pmurias inc is ?
13:19 ruoso just for the case that there is more than one block in the same line
13:19 moritz_ the incremented number
13:19 pmurias __rule_block_$filename_$inc would be enough
13:19 moritz_ aye
13:19 pmurias the $inc is kept as a member of the visitor
13:20 ruoso is filename unique?
13:20 ruoso I don't think so
13:20 ruoso I don't think we can count on that
13:21 ruoso it's probably a better idea to generate a lexical variable that contains the coderegf
13:21 pmurias yes
13:21 ruoso and just deref as a sub call inside the rule
13:21 ruoso or even
13:22 ruoso get the source back from the AST and recompile after thar
13:22 ruoso that*
13:22 pmurias the first option is i think preferable
13:22 moritz_ least effort, but quite effective
13:23 ruoso pmurias, the best would be if Token already generated a AST and just included the code inside it
13:23 ruoso which is not quite impossible, actually
13:23 pmurias the second option is slower and suffers from bugs in the AST emitter
13:23 pmurias ruoso: if you want to do it
13:24 pmurias i thought of doing quasi-quotes once we get a bootstrap
13:24 ruoso and what if we create a syntax marker that would be replaced by the Lit::Code object
13:24 ruoso in the AST
13:24 pmurias i don't understand
13:24 pmurias explain more/diffrently
13:25 ruoso generate the rule with a: WE_WILL_CALL_THE_BLOCK_HERE_PLACEHOLDER
13:25 ruoso that would be searched on the tree
13:25 ruoso and substituted by the Lit::Code
13:26 pmurias isn't it better just to generate a lexical sub
13:26 ruoso this can be confusing and conflicting with other lexical variables
13:26 pmurias ruoso: what you propose would sort of be like quasi-quotes
13:26 ruoso yep...
13:27 ruoso we would add a KindaPerl6::AST::Placeholder object type in the AST
13:27 ruoso this placeholder would be like a macro
13:27 ruoso that would then be replaced by the code itself
13:27 ruoso which is already an AST object
13:28 ruoso after the generated p6 code be parsed
13:29 ruoso we could make this placeholder thing as a stack
13:29 ruoso that everytime we create a placeholder we add it's referral to the stack
13:29 pmurias i see
13:29 ruoso and then, everytime the placeholder is substituted by the referral, the stack would be shifted
13:30 ruoso FIFO
13:31 pmurias having quasi-quotes would obsolete this
13:31 pmurias and they aren't so much more difficult
13:31 ruoso how would that work
13:31 ruoso ?
13:31 ruoso considering you're returning a string, and the block code is already a AST tree
13:32 pmurias i would return only AST nodes then
13:32 pmurias there is no use using strings if you have quasi-quotes
13:32 ruoso i didn't get it
13:33 ruoso you still is generating p6 code that needs to be parsed
13:33 ruoso and that block is enclosed in this code
13:33 ruoso how will you do that?
13:34 pmurias let me find an example
13:35 ruoso rule myrule { 'abc' { return 'cde' } }
13:35 pugs_svnbot r17620 | ruoso++ | [kp6] some notes on how the runtime could be even more splitted from the compilation
13:35 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17620
13:35 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17620 - Pugs - Trac
13:36 ruoso the idea of the placeholder would be like generating a code equivalent to:
13:36 ruoso rule myrule { 'abc' (((!!!PLACEHOLDER!!!))) }
13:36 ruoso include the placeholder as a rule in the grammar
13:36 ruoso and once the placeholder is parsed
13:37 ruoso it shifts from the stack the node that should be returned
13:38 moritz_ ruoso: re NOTES-NEW-COMPILER.txt: are you planning to write a new compiler that is bootstrapped with kp6?
13:39 ruoso moritz_, just wondering, actually
13:39 pmurias or refactor the current one to a new layout?
13:39 ruoso trying to see if it makes sense or not
13:39 ruoso pmurias, that would be an option, in the case it makes sense
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13:40 moritz_ that diagram looks... scary ;)
13:40 pmurias with quasi-quotes avalible i don't think it would make sense to generate p6 code instead of p6 ast
13:41 ruoso moritz_, heh
13:41 moritz_ btw am I right in assuming that the hackathon is finished?
13:41 ruoso pmurias, I still didn't got what the quasi-quotes are
13:41 pmurias you can use for example q:code {$var} as sugar for ::Var(sigil='$',name=>'var',...)
13:41 ruoso moritz_, yep
13:41 ruoso moritz_, or not...
13:41 ruoso ;)
13:42 ruoso we're as active as in the hackathon ;)
13:42 moritz_ ruoso: I'm just asking because of moving IDEAS-HACKATHON to docs/
13:42 ruoso moritz_, fglock ?
13:42 pmurias ruoso: have you seen the Quasiquoting section in S06?
13:42 ruoso you mean, not parsing the rule block until the Token emiter?
13:43 pmurias no
13:44 pmurias using AST nodes instead of code in strings
13:44 pmurias with similar syntax
13:44 ruoso pmurias, hm... I see...
13:44 ruoso but then you need a AST2Str and Str2AST
13:45 pmurias it should avoid the time consuming parsing step
13:45 pmurias AST2Str is EmitPerl6 and Str2Ast is Grammar.pm
13:45 ruoso moritz_, btw... what is scary about the diagram?
13:46 moritz_ ruoso: it has many nodes, and many bidrectional/circular edges
13:46 ruoso pmurias, well... you'll be regenerating the orig code to be parsed again
13:46 moritz_ ruoso: it's not that complicated, but the first impression is "d'oh, that's tough" ;)
13:46 ruoso moritz_, heh
13:46 ruoso moritz_, but do you think it makes sense?
13:47 ruoso pmurias, it would be better if we had a AST2YAML/YAML2AST or something like that...
13:47 moritz_ ruoso: yes, I think it does (but I'm not a compiler wizard)
13:47 moritz_ ruoso: and there are things that are rather similar in kp6 right now
13:47 pmurias ruoso: i won't
13:47 moritz_ like the pluggable emitters
13:48 pmurias be regenerating the code
13:48 pmurias i'll ci an example
13:48 ruoso pmurias, so, how will you represent the Lit::Code object inside the string?
13:49 ruoso it needs to be stringified
13:52 moritz_ ruoso: with the diagram I can't find a possiblity to change the grammar at runtime
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13:52 moritz_ how would you do that?
13:53 pmurias ruoso: it dosn't need to be strinfied
13:53 pugs_svnbot r17621 | pmurias++ | [kp6] quasi-quote example
13:53 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17621
13:53 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17621 - Pugs - Trac
13:54 pmurias quasi-quotes are syntax sugar for explicitly creating AST
13:57 ruoso pmurias, so, you'll be calling the backend emitter in the Rule::Block emitter
13:57 ruoso that was what I was trying to avoid
13:58 fglock what is the command for initializing pugs in svk? i'm trying svk co //pugs http://svn.pugscode.org/pugs
13:58 pugs_svnbot r17622 | pmurias++ | [kp6] example of intended use of quasi-quotes in Token.pm
13:58 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17622
13:58 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17622 - Pugs - Trac
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13:58 pmurias ruoso: why would i call the backend emitter
13:58 fglock i get: Path //pugs does not exist
13:59 pmurias and if you do //
13:59 pmurias ?
13:59 pmurias the quasi-quotes are transformed when Token.pm is compiled
13:59 moritz_ I'd expect just 'svk co http://svn.pugscode.org/pugs/'
13:59 moritz_ but I never tried it
14:00 ruoso pmurias, hmmm
14:00 fglock that seems to work
14:00 ruoso now I see
14:00 ruoso pmurias++
14:00 ruoso That is certainly better...
14:01 ruoso and we should probably substitute all this code generation and parsing in Token.pm to that...
14:04 pmurias i'm not sure if it's sane to implement them before the boostrap
14:04 pmurias *bootstrap
14:04 fglock svk didn't understand -100 and it wants to download from revision 1
14:04 moritz_ though shalt refrain from downloading r1 ;)
14:05 fglock how can I make it ask again?
14:05 ruoso pmurias, we need a solution to the rule::block to be able to bootstrap
14:05 moritz_ http://feather.perl6.nl/svk.html sounds good
14:05 lambdabot Title: SVK on Feather
14:07 fglock moritz_: i think that instructions are specific for feather
14:07 moritz_ fglock: do you need the history?
14:08 moritz_ if not, there's a -head option iirc
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14:10 fglock moritz_: like this? svk up --head -s
14:12 pmurias ruoso: hacking around the problem with $filename$inc
14:12 moritz_ fglock: somethink like that, but I don't know exactly... and I haven't got a svk installation here :(
14:13 ruoso pmurias, ok
14:16 pmurias ruoso: is using Digest::MD5 ok?
14:17 ruoso md5 of what?
14:17 pmurias the source file being compiled
14:17 ruoso probably using the stringified "Lit::Code=HASH(0x123213)" taking the 0x123123 is enough
14:18 ruoso or not
14:18 ruoso but yes...
14:18 ruoso md5 + inc seems enough for now
14:19 pmurias is there anything else blocking the bootstrap
14:19 pmurias ?
14:20 pmurias i can think only of ::Foo(key1=>1,key2=>2)
14:20 pmurias not working
14:23 ruoso is that the cause for the compilation error?
14:23 pmurias no
14:23 pmurias it's a runtime thing
14:24 ruoso at this moment, tryng to use the bootstrapped libs fail with a compilation error...
14:25 moritz_ yes, that's the rule blocks with same names
14:25 pmurias no
14:25 pmurias it's the for's
14:26 * moritz_ does a 'svn up' ;)
14:28 pmurias i have no idea how to fix the for's
14:28 pugs_svnbot r17623 | pmurias++ | [kp6] md5 of source file added to __rule_block
14:28 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17623
14:28 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17623 - Pugs - Trac
14:29 * ruoso trying to add a "my $a" before the for
14:29 ruoso to see if the compiler see it as a local var instead of global
14:30 pmurias you to it in each of the files?
14:30 pmurias s/to/do/
14:31 ruoso I'm trying just in the "Parameters", as it's the first one
14:31 ruoso if the problem goes elsewhere
14:31 ruoso then it makes sense to do that
14:31 ruoso kp6 takes an entire decade to bootstrap
14:32 moritz_ 186 seconds for me
14:32 moritz_ for one compilation pass
14:32 pmurias meaning
14:32 moritz_ compare that to GHC or GCC ;)
14:32 pmurias ?
14:32 moritz_ compile all p6 files once with kp6-perl5.pl (the mixed mp6/kp6 thingy)
14:33 pmurias wow
14:33 pmurias that's fast
14:33 ruoso moritz_, bootstrap.pl could receive a param to work with more than one processor
14:33 ruoso yep
14:33 pmurias moritz_: what's your hardware?
14:33 ruoso the my $var before the "for" solves it
14:33 moritz_ Pentium M 1.5 GHz
14:33 moritz_ nothing fancy, really
14:35 pmurias i'll install dia, and then see how long does it take for me
14:35 moritz_ I don't have an SMP maschine, so there's no incentive to implement parallel compilation ;)
14:35 pmurias i remember Grammar.pm alone compiled longer
14:36 pugs_svnbot r17624 | ruoso++ | [kp6] added a kp6-bootstrap-perl5.pl script, and tested "my $var" before a for works...
14:36 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17624
14:36 pmurias and i have 2.4 GHz ,2Gb ram and use ratpoison as my wm
14:36 moritz_ I once built a "linux from scratch" with a complete bootstrapped toolchain on a 700MHz maschine - it compiled for days, literally ;)
14:36 pmurias i use gentoo
14:37 pmurias :)
14:37 moritz_ pmurias: well, gentoo has binary packages as well ;)
14:38 moritz_ ruoso: what does kp6-bootstrap-perl5.pl do?
14:40 ruoso nothing special...
14:40 ruoso it just "use lib 'bootstrap/lib'
14:41 moritz_ ah, ok
14:45 ruoso #pugs my %a = { a => 1, b => 2 }; %a{a} := 3;
14:45 exp_evalbot OUTPUT[*** No such subroutine: "&a"␤    at /tmp/6mumS0xlqW line 1, column 32-33␤]
14:45 ruoso #pugs my %a = { a => 1, b => 2 }; %a{'a'} := 3;
14:46 exp_evalbot OUTPUT[{obj:<Scalar::Const:0xb72d4fdc>}␤]
14:46 ruoso #pugs my %a = { a => 1, b => 2 }; %a{'a'} = 3;
14:46 exp_evalbot OUTPUT[\3␤]
14:46 * ruoso confused with binding to a value of a hash
14:47 moritz_ my %a = {a => 1, b => 2}; print %a<a>;
14:47 moritz_ #pugs my %a = {a => 1, b => 2}; print %a<a>;
14:47 exp_evalbot OUTPUT[1]
14:47 ruoso #pugs my %a = { a => 1, b => 2 }; %a<a> = 3; say %a<a>;
14:47 exp_evalbot OUTPUT[3␤]
14:47 ruoso #pugs my %a = { a => 1, b => 2 }; %a<a> := 3; say %a<a>;
14:47 exp_evalbot OUTPUT[3␤]
14:48 ruoso #kp6 my %a = { a => 1, b => 2 }; %a<a> := 3; say %a<a>;
14:48 exp_evalbot r17624: OUTPUT[Syntax Error␤DISPATCH: calling APPLY on invalid object:$VAR1 = {};␤␤ at lib5/KindaPerl6/Runtime/Perl5/MOP.pm line 32␤  main::DISPATCH('undef', 'APPLY') called at - line 26␤]
14:48 ruoso #kp6 my %a = { a => 1, b => 2 }; %a<a> = 3; say %a<a>;
14:48 exp_evalbot r17624: OUTPUT[Syntax Error␤DISPATCH: calling APPLY on invalid object:$VAR1 = {};␤␤ at lib5/KindaPerl6/Runtime/Perl5/MOP.pm line 32␤  main::DISPATCH('undef', 'APPLY') called at - line 26␤]
14:49 ruoso #kp6 my %a = { a => 1, b => 2 }; %a{'a'}> = 3; say %a{'a'};
14:49 exp_evalbot r17624: OUTPUT[Syntax Error␤]
14:49 ruoso #kp6 my %a = { a => 1, b => 2 }; %a{'a'} = 3; say %a{'a'};
14:49 exp_evalbot r17624: OUTPUT[3␤]
14:49 ruoso #kp6 my %a = { a => 1, b => 2 }; %a{'a'} := 3; say %a{'a'};
14:49 exp_evalbot r17624: OUTPUT[Can't modify non-lvalue subroutine call in scalar assignment at - line 32, near ")␤}"␤Execution of - aborted due to compilation errors.␤]
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14:52 moritz_ #kp6 my %a; %a{'a'} = 1; %a{'b'} = 2;
14:52 exp_evalbot r17624: OUTPUT[2␤]
14:52 moritz_ #kp6 my %a; %a{'a'} = 1; %a{'b'} = 2; say %a{'b'}
14:52 exp_evalbot r17624: OUTPUT[2␤]
14:52 moritz_ #kp6 my %a; %a{'a'} = 1; %a{'b'} := 2; say %a{'b'}
14:52 exp_evalbot r17624: OUTPUT[Can't modify non-lvalue subroutine call in scalar assignment at - line 30, near ")␤}"␤Execution of - aborted due to compilation errors.␤]
14:53 sysfault left #perl6
14:56 fglock i can no longer commit: Authentication realm: <https://svn.pugscode.org:443> Pugs Subversion Repository
14:56 pugs_svnbot r17625 | ruoso++ | [kp6] it looks like we need hash item binding in kp6 to bootstrap
14:56 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17625
14:56 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17625 - Pugs - Trac
14:58 ruoso pmurias, fglock is telling me you removed the BIND sub from MOP... ;)
14:59 pmurias yes
14:59 pmurias is hash binding legal p6?
14:59 pmurias hash element binding
14:59 ruoso pmurias, yep
14:59 ruoso It doesn't seems to be specced
14:59 ruoso but pugs supports it
14:59 ruoso and mp6 only supports bind and no assign
15:00 ruoso so we need it, at least until we bootstrap kp5
15:00 ruoso kp6
15:00 ruoso we can remove after that
15:00 moritz_ couldn't we default to assignment as a quick'n'dirty hack?
15:00 ruoso if it's not legal
15:00 ruoso hmm... bind is probably used as a bind somewhere
15:01 pmurias don't think so
15:03 pmurias mp6 emits is as hash assigment
15:03 pmurias *assignment
15:03 * ruoso trying something here
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15:07 ruoso welll
15:07 ruoso I fixed the test 46...
15:07 ruoso but broke about everything else
15:07 ruoso heh
15:07 pmurias you can't have everything ;)
15:12 masak there are situations where that is as it should be
15:12 masak human judgement is needed there ;)
15:14 ruoso Container := Object looks like a weird bind
15:14 SamB heh
15:14 ruoso binds are supposed to be container := container
15:16 ruoso container := object is a plain assignement
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15:20 pmurias ruoso: you can have a $variable := object
15:21 pmurias you don't have the object wraped in a Scalar then
15:23 ruoso but I mean, this have no binding semantics... it's a plain assignement
15:23 ruoso isn't it?
15:23 ruoso hmmm
15:23 ruoso if object is readonly, then, $variable is readonly
15:23 ruoso ok
15:27 ruoso ok...
15:27 ruoso I found
15:28 pmurias what did you find?
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15:31 ruoso my $foo = Foo.new makes the assignement without initializing $foo
15:31 ruoso as a container
15:32 ruoso that's what makes everything break
15:33 pmurias k
15:34 pmurias well it's not ok :)
15:37 fglock i can't commit yet
15:40 fglock i guess i need to get re-invited
15:41 moritz_ fglock: I'll try, if commitbit responds
15:41 moritz_ compared to commitbit even perlmonks.org is fast ;)
15:42 moritz_ obra: is there a command line interface to commitbit?
15:42 moritz_ that would make life easier for feather users
15:43 obra the problem is that feather is fucked up and has horrible performance for large file scans. (like what sqlite does all the time)
15:44 moritz_ since unfucking feather isn't very easy.. could it help to change to another database?
15:44 Juerd feather will get a hardware upgrade within 2 weeks.
15:44 moritz_ cool, Juerd++
15:46 Juerd And hereby I'm removing sslh from the system
15:46 Juerd If you need it, please patch it so it doesn't max out the CPU :)
15:47 moritz_ ... or provide a second IP ;)
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15:57 ruoso ok...
15:57 ruoso after my changes I have 50% pass
15:57 ruoso but I think it's in the right direction
16:02 pmurias you could nopaste a diff or something if you want to show them
16:03 * pmurias wanders why 36 and 40 started to fail
16:04 justatheory joined #perl6
16:12 Juerd moritz_: Additional IPs are available if needed; I think it's a bit inefficient to use an entire second IP just so people can evade silly firewalls.
16:13 Juerd Discussion (or numbers on how many people depended on sslh) welcome.
16:19 pmurias ruoso: did you find anything else the the binding which blocks the bootstrap?
16:20 Juerd So far, I have no actual data on anyone really *using* sslh
16:20 ruoso pmurias, I'm struggling with it
16:20 ruoso it looks like it's in the right way
16:22 pasteling "ruoso" at 82.154.252.25 pasted "Trying to implement the BIND." (179 lines, 11.1K) at http://sial.org/pbot/27286
16:25 ruoso pmurias, take a look
16:27 bonesss joined #perl6
16:27 TimToady_ fg
16:27 TimToady_ .oO(grr)
16:27 pmurias ruoso: nay
16:28 pmurias i don't think changing back to BIND is a good choice
16:28 ruoso pmurias, what?
16:28 masak TimToady_: why ".oO(grr)"?
16:28 ruoso pmurias, which choice do we have?
16:29 pmurias we could change the emit assignment if the left side of the bind is a hash elem
16:29 pmurias TimToady_: is %hash<elem> := 1; legal?
16:29 moritz_ probably a "wrong window" array
16:30 pmurias ruoso: i could do it if you want
16:30 ruoso pmurias, does it solve all the problems?
16:32 pmurias ruoso: it should solve that one
16:32 pmurias other problems are probably unrelated to binding
16:32 ruoso pmurias, give it a try
16:33 pmurias giving already
16:33 TimToady_ pmurias: you should be able to bind to a hash/array element
16:33 ruoso TimToady_, that's not yet in the specs, isn't it?
16:33 ruoso the only reference I found was a thread in the ml
16:34 ruoso pmurias, but I think we're going to need a new runtime
16:34 ruoso for the final compiler
16:35 TimToady ?eval my @a = 1,2,3;  @a[1] := 42; say @a
16:35 pugsbot_r17185 OUTPUT[1423␤] Bool::True
16:35 ruoso TimToady, it's implemented by pugs...
16:35 ruoso but I couldn't find it in the specs
16:35 TimToady then it's gotta be right :)
16:35 ruoso heh
16:35 ruoso ok
16:36 TimToady I think it falls in the category of "anything not forbidden is allowed", esp since it's so fundamental
16:36 TimToady indeed, in Python every array element assignment is really what we think of as binding
16:36 ruoso pmurias, fglock is saying that making the INDEX and LOOKUP as lvalue would solve it
16:37 pmurias lvalue here means?
16:38 pmurias in the perl5 sense?
16:38 ruoso yep
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16:45 pugs_svnbot r17626 | pmurias++ | [kp6] binding is changed to assignment in the emitter
16:45 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17626
16:45 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17626 - Pugs - Trac
16:46 pmurias the test works
16:46 pmurias which means we likely have the assignment wrong
16:47 ruoso did you run the last binding test I wrote?
16:48 pmurias yes
16:48 pmurias and
16:48 pmurias ?
16:49 ruoso so it's semantics is write
16:49 ruoso right
16:52 ruoso multi's and junctions are now failing
16:52 ruoso for some reason
16:58 buetow joined #perl6
17:00 pmurias ruoso: don't know when they started to fail
17:05 pmurias moritz_:  the bootstrap.pl took 0m7.384s on my machine
17:06 pugs_svnbot r17627 | ruoso++ | [kp6] bootstrap script now accepts a n parameter to paralellize the copilation
17:06 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17627
17:09 pmurias ruoso: blocking on for again :(
17:09 ruoso pmurias, I'm pre-declaring the "my" variables
17:10 ruoso Can't locate object method "new" via package "KindaPerl6::Visitor::Perl" at bootstrap/lib/KindaPerl6/Runtime/Perl5/Compiler.pm line 14.
17:10 ruoso that's a new error
17:10 pmurias ruoso: you predeclared all of them :)
17:11 pmurias ?
17:11 ruoso yep
17:11 * ruoso committing now
17:11 pugs_svnbot r17628 | ruoso++ | [kp6] moving forward... no more compilation errors in bootstrapped kp6... only runtime errors now
17:11 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17628
17:11 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17628 - Pugs - Trac
17:11 ruoso I left the broken for test, so we know it doesn't work
17:12 pmurias k
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17:15 rjbs TimToady: What's the reasoning behind calling err "err"?
17:15 ruoso pmurias, I think it's time to start the new compiler
17:16 ruoso we need to convert everything to kp6 calling convention
17:16 ruoso instead of mp6 calling convention
17:17 pmurias makes sense
17:18 dmq32 joined #perl6
17:19 ruoso let's do the following
17:19 ruoso we take the current "lib" dir, make a copy to "lib-kp6-mp6"
17:19 fglock joined #perl6
17:19 ruoso then we take the current "lib5" dir and make a copy to "lib-kp6-mp6-p5"
17:20 ruoso so the current compiler stays stable
17:20 ruoso and we start implementing the other
17:20 ruoso makes sense?
17:20 pmurias think so
17:20 * ruoso doing it
17:22 pmurias COMPILATION_PROCESS.png looks very much like the current kp6 architecture
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17:27 pugs_svnbot r17629 | ruoso++ | [kp6] Huge source code layout re-structure... now we have kp6-mp6 and kp6-kp6 sub-projects
17:27 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17629
17:27 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17629 - Pugs - Trac
17:28 * ruoso refactoring Makefile to the new structure
17:33 moritz_ pmurias: run 'time bootstrap.pl -a'
17:33 moritz_ pmurias: otherwise it'll only rebuild touched files
17:34 pmurias doing it that way, it wouldn't take so long otherwise
17:35 pmurias i wonder how you manage to recompile kp6 that much faster on a slower machine
17:35 ruoso pmurias, more memory?
17:35 ruoso kp6 is very memory jungry
17:35 ruoso s/jungry/hungry/
17:35 pmurias are 4Gb of ram required?
17:36 moritz_ you said it took 0m7.384s
17:36 moritz_ mine took 128s which is 3m8s
17:37 moritz_ so yours is much faster
17:37 * moritz_ has 512MB ram, some of which is claimed by the GPU
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17:38 pmurias i misread the output
17:38 moritz_ ok ;)
17:38 ahmadz hi
17:38 pmurias it wasn't 7 seconds for sure
17:39 pmurias it dosn't really matter
17:40 pmurias kp6 isn't that memory hungry
17:40 pmurias to shows it's under 10% here
17:41 pmurias well under 20% always so it dosn't use more then 400m
17:50 * ruoso finishing the structural changes in the source
17:52 moritz_ ruoso: which way are you going now? BIND or lvalue?
17:54 ruoso moritz_, pmurias fixed changing the BIND to a ASSIGN in case of hash lookup or array index
17:54 ruoso the Makefile was changed...
17:55 pugs_svnbot r17630 | ruoso++ | [kp6] structural source layout changes finished.
17:55 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17630
17:55 ruoso calling bootstrap.pl is uncecessary now
17:55 ruoso a simple make
17:55 ruoso will do it
17:56 ruoso and now we can change the runtime in lib-kp6-kp6...
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17:58 ruoso I think now we basically need to re-write as much as possible files from kp6-kp6/ p5 runtime to p6
17:58 ruoso like KindaPerl6::Runtime::Perl5::Compiler
17:59 ruoso to KindaPer6::Runtime::Perl6::Compiler
18:01 pugs_svnbot r17631 | moritz++ | [kp6] removed bootstrap.pl (substituted by Makefile)
18:01 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17631
18:01 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17631 - Pugs - Trac
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18:16 pugs_svnbot r17632 | ruoso++ | [kp6] Match is no longer p5.. the p6 version is used instead
18:16 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17632
18:16 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17632 - Pugs - Trac
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18:22 ruoso #kp6 say "hello"
18:22 exp_evalbot r17633: OUTPUT[Can't open perl script "kp6-perl5.pl": No such file or directory␤]
18:22 pugs_svnbot r17633 | ruoso++ | [kp6] Bootstrap todo list...
18:22 ruoso oops
18:22 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17633
18:22 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17633 - Pugs - Trac
18:24 * ruoso going home
18:24 pugs_svnbot r17634 | ruoso++ | [kp6] as kp6-mp6 is the only working version, lets leave it as the evalbot executable
18:24 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17634
18:24 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17634 - Pugs - Trac
18:25 ruoso pmurias, take a look at the KP6-Bootstrap-Notes file
18:25 ruoso it seems we're really close to the bootstrap
18:25 pmurias k
18:26 ruoso home &
18:31 moritz_ #kp6 say "foo"
18:31 exp_evalbot r17634: OUTPUT[Can't locate KindaPerl6/Runtime/Perl5/Runtime.pm in @INC (@INC contains: lib5 /etc/perl /usr/local/lib/perl/5.8.8 /usr/local/share/perl/5.8.8 /usr/lib/perl5 /usr/share/perl5 /usr/lib/perl/5.8 /usr/share/perl/5.8 /usr/local/lib/site_perl .) at - line 7.␤BEGIN failed--compilation
18:31 exp_evalbot ..aborted at - line 7.␤]
18:33 snearch joined #perl6
18:34 moritz_ now I'm confused - how should evalbot execute kp6?
18:35 TimToady1 joined #perl6
18:38 moritz_ got it, lib-kp6-mp6-p5
18:38 pugs_svnbot r17635 | moritz++ | [kp6] udpated compile-and-run ./kp6 to reflect current pathes
18:38 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17635
18:39 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17635 - Pugs - Trac
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18:41 pugs_svnbot r17636 | moritz++ | [evalbot] fixed kp6 includes
18:41 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17636
18:41 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17636 - Pugs - Trac
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20:42 pugs_svnbot r17637 | fglock++ | test
20:42 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17637
20:42 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17637 - Pugs - Trac
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21:14 jisom does perl6 treat nan as true or false?
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21:25 meppl good night
21:44 fglock jisom: NaN is true in pugs
21:45 jisom thanks
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22:09 pugs_svnbot r17638 | fglock++ | [kp6] mv some files to docs/
22:09 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17638
22:09 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17638 - Pugs - Trac
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22:18 pugs_svnbot r17639 | fglock++ | [kp6] added a test for Inf, NaN (we need this to create range objects)
22:18 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17639
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23:58 Blwood To know which functions are implemented in pugs we have to look inside /t to see if there's a test for it right ? And normally there should be a link in the synopsis to it. Am I right ?

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