Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2007-09-18

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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00:17 pugs_svnbot r17894 | avar++ |  r63481@t:  avar | 2007-09-18 00:15:22 +0000
00:17 pugs_svnbot r17894 | avar++ |  PREREQ, pod docs and croak on make install
00:17 pugs_svnbot r17895 | avar++ |  r63482@t:  avar | 2007-09-18 00:16:06 +0000
00:17 pugs_svnbot r17895 | avar++ |  the dependencies list has been moved to Makefile.PL
00:17 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17895
00:17 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17895 - Pugs - Trac
00:23 pugs_svnbot r17896 | avar++ |  r63485@t:  avar | 2007-09-18 00:22:00 +0000
00:23 pugs_svnbot r17896 | avar++ |  removed DEPENDENCIES
00:23 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17896
00:23 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17896 - Pugs - Trac
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01:45 * platypus has been reading A06.pod "Its not immiditly clear how one defines a new type"
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03:43 ahmadz_ hi *
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04:23 ahmadz ?perl6 '123'
04:23 lambdabot Unknown command, try @list
04:23 ahmadz ?eval '123'
04:27 ahmadz kp6: say 'hello world';
04:27 exp_evalbot r17896: OUTPUT[hello world␤]
04:28 ahmadz eval: my @a = <foo 1 2 3>;
04:28 buubot ahmadz:  4
04:29 ahmadz perl6: my @a = <foo 1 2 3>;
04:29 exp_evalbot kp6: OUTPUT[syntax error at position 6, line 1 column 6:␤my @a = <foo 1 2 3>␤      ^ HERE␤]
04:29 exp_evalbot ..pugs: OUTPUT[["foo", "1", "2", "3"]␤]
04:29 exp_evalbot ..p6: OUTPUT[Null PMC access in invoke()␤current instr.: 'parrot;Perl6::Compiler;main' pc 138 (perl6.pir:98)␤]
04:29 exp_evalbot ..nqp: OUTPUT[Statement not terminated properly at line 1, near "@a = <foo "␤current instr.: 'parrot;PGE::Util;die' pc 123 (runtime/parrot/library/PGE/Util.pir:83)␤called from Sub 'parrot;NQP::Grammar;statement_list' pc 3574 (src/Grammar_gen.pir:1275)␤called from Sub 'parrot;NQP::Grammar;TOP' pc
04:29 exp_evalbot ..537 (src/Grammar_gen.pir:103)␤called from Sub 'parrot;PCT::HLLCo...]
04:29 ahmadz kp6: my @a = (foo 1 2 3);
04:29 exp_evalbot r17896: OUTPUT[syntax error at position 6, line 1 column 6:␤my @a = (foo 1 2 3)␤      ^ HERE␤]
04:29 ahmadz kp6: my @a = ("foo",1,2,3);
04:29 exp_evalbot r17896: OUTPUT[syntax error at position 6, line 1 column 6:␤my @a = ("foo",1,2,3)␤      ^ HERE␤]
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04:34 ahmadz kp6: 1..*
04:34 exp_evalbot r17896: OUTPUT[syntax error at position 2, line 1 column 2:␤1..␤  ^ HERE␤no method 'APPLY' in Class 'Int'␤]
04:34 ahmadz pugs: 1..*
04:34 exp_evalbot OUTPUT[pugs: out of memory (requested 1048576 bytes)␤]
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05:35 moritz_ pugs: my @a:=1..*; say "success"
05:35 exp_evalbot OUTPUT[success␤]
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06:25 wayg 0,2 http://st-pitch.miniville.fr/
06:25 lambdabot Title: Miniville
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07:16 pugs_svnbot r17897 | Darren_Duncan++ | ext/Muldis-DB/ : removed Literal.pm, as Muldis DB will now use Perl arrays,hashes,scalars for data interchange instead
07:16 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17897
07:16 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17897 - Pugs - Trac
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07:49 pugs_svnbot r17898 | azawawi++ | [runpugs] updated TODO with latest status
07:49 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17898
07:49 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17898 - Pugs - Trac
07:50 moritz_ what's the URL of the new runpugs again?
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07:50 moritz_ ah, found it: http://feather3.perl6.nl/runpugs/
07:50 lambdabot Title: Run Perl 6 Now -- in your browser!
07:52 moritz_ that version runs without the escaping fix
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10:14 pugs_svnbot r17899 | azawawi++ | [runpugs] added safari win32 support
10:14 pugs_svnbot r17899 | azawawi++ | [runpugs] fixed typos/css/ui
10:14 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17899
10:14 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17899 - Pugs - Trac
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10:21 ruoso hmmm... the Makefile.PL in kp6 doesn't seems to be doing the right thing
10:23 ruoso avar, Makefile.PL is installing into blib/lib the contents of lib/ it should take the contents of lib-kp6-kp6-p5
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10:36 ahmadz hi moritz
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10:38 ahmadz @tell moritz "Did runpugs work with the new fixes on your machine (http://feather3.perl6.nl/runpugs)? (Remember to refresh cache just in case)"
10:38 lambdabot Consider it noted.
10:41 moritz_ ahmadz no, it didn't work. Part of the problem seems to be that < and > don't even arrive correctly at pugs - if I enter 'my @a= <foo bar>;' the prompt changes as if my expression wasn't finished
10:45 moritz_ @tell ahmadz no, it didn't work. Part of the problem seems to be that < and > don't even arrive correctly at pugs - if I enter 'my @a= <foo bar>;' the prompt changes as if my expression wasn't finished
10:45 lambdabot Consider it noted.
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10:49 ahmadz kp6: my @a = <foo 1 2 3>;
10:49 lambdabot ahmadz: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
10:49 exp_evalbot r17899: OUTPUT[syntax error at position 6, line 1 column 6:␤my @a = <foo 1 2 3>␤      ^ HERE␤]
10:49 ahmadz @messages
10:49 pugs_svnbot r17900 | fglock++ | [kp6] rough Range class
10:49 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17900
10:49 lambdabot moritz_ said 4m 11s ago: no, it didn't work. Part of the problem seems to be that < and > don't even arrive correctly at pugs - if I enter 'my @a= <foo bar>;' the prompt changes as if my expression
10:49 lambdabot wasn't finished
10:49 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17900 - Pugs - Trac
10:50 ahmadz moritz_: are u there?
10:50 moritz_ ahmadz: yes
10:50 ahmadz cool
10:50 ahmadz moritz_: what's ur browser/os?
10:50 moritz_ I just used firebug, and it shows an empty line in the "POST" tab
10:50 ahmadz ff2/linux?
10:50 moritz_ iceweasel 2.0 (unbranded firefox for debian) on debian
10:51 ahmadz try ctrl-f5 [to refresh cache]
10:52 moritz_ doesn't make a difference
10:52 moritz_ I used ctrl+shift+r before
10:53 ahmadz ok, it works on ff2 win; i need to try it on ff2/linux then
10:54 ahmadz the good thing it worked on safari/win32
10:54 moritz_ is it normal that the requests (or some of them) are sent to runpugs3.pl?
10:55 ahmadz no they shouldnt...
10:55 ahmadz what's the address you're using again?
10:55 moritz_ http://feather3.perl6.nl/runpugs/
10:55 lambdabot Title: Run Perl 6 Now -- in your browser!
10:56 moritz_ is there anything I can do to help you with debugging?
10:57 ahmadz im tracing it... ;-)
10:58 ahmadz moritz_: try http://feather.perl6.nl:8096/runpugs/ plz
10:58 lambdabot Title: Run Perl 6 Now -- in your browser!
11:00 moritz_ same result
11:00 ahmadz moritz: cool ;-)
11:01 ahmadz moritz: i guess html escaping is different on FF2/linux in <PRE> tags
11:01 moritz_ ahmadz: I guess it's a problem with the input method
11:01 moritz_ ahmadz: on my german keyboard I have to type AltGr+q to produce an @ sign
11:02 ahmadz moritz_: aha cool... we're getting somewhere
11:02 moritz_ a simple <foo bar>.say works
11:02 moritz_ as expected
11:02 ahmadz moritz: try this link: http://people.w3.org/rishida/utils/keyevents/
11:02 lambdabot Title: ishida utilities >> Key event monitor
11:03 moritz_ it produces a keydown 0 first
11:03 moritz_ and then a keyup 50
11:03 ahmadz on a '<' ?
11:04 moritz_ no, on AltGr+q (which produces @)
11:04 moritz_ the < and > work for me
11:04 moritz_ the @ sign seems to be the problem
11:04 theorbtwo It's been my experince that german keymaps are very annoying to code with (in general and across most languages).
11:04 fglock_ i'm reading http://www.sidhe.org/~dan/​blog/archives/000157.html and related articles (re: lazy gather/take)
11:04 lambdabot Title: Squawks of the Parrot: Continuations and VMs, part 2
11:05 moritz_ theorbtwo: they are, yes
11:05 theorbtwo That kevents thingy gets very confused by my compose key, BTW.
11:05 moritz_ ahmadz: maybe just try to strip 0 bytes from the strings before sending them to the server?
11:06 ahmadz moritz_: so you enter "my @a = <foo 1 2 3>"
11:06 ahmadz moritz_: and you see it echo-ed again as my @  = <foo 1 2 3>?
11:06 ahmadz moritz: srry without the @
11:07 moritz_ ahmadz: no, it is echoed as "pugs my\n...>"
11:08 ahmadz moritz_: oh, ok then
11:09 moritz_ also copy&paste doesn't work in the console window
11:10 ahmadz moritz_: im doing keydown/keyup javascript handling... so that's expected... home/del/left/right/up/down should work
11:11 moritz_ ahmadz: they do
11:11 ahmadz moritz_: cool
11:12 moritz_ so it's most likely a combined weirdness of my german keyboard and javascript event handlers
11:13 ahmadz we can debug it if you have the time
11:14 moritz_ mabe later today, now I have to get some food ;)
11:15 ahmadz moritz_: cool ty for your time
11:15 ahmadz moritz_: one more thing, i was looking at your evalbot.pl code for possible re-use of kp6 into runpugs
11:16 moritz_ it's rather simplistic, not a REPL loop
11:16 ahmadz moritz_: but the thing is we need the process to be running all the time in a REPL fashion like pugs
11:17 ahmadz moritz_: then i should focus next on the tutorial part and maybe debug your german keyboard problem later in the night... ty for your time... enjoy ur food ;-)
11:18 moritz_ ahmadz: thank you, and see you later
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11:25 pugs_svnbot r17901 | azawawi++ | added german keyboard problem fix TODO
11:25 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17901
11:25 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17901 - Pugs - Trac
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12:01 pugs_svnbot r17902 | moritz++ | [runpugs] attempt to fix German keyboard weirdness
12:01 pugs_svnbot r17902 | moritz++ | (AltGr produces a 0 byte)
12:01 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17902
12:01 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17902 - Pugs - Trac
12:04 pugs_svnbot r17903 | fglock++ | [kp6] possible coro impl without threads
12:04 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17903
12:04 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17903 - Pugs - Trac
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12:13 ahmadz hi
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12:21 moritz_ hi ahmadz
12:21 moritz_ I commited a change to the JS...
12:21 moritz_ is the server updated automatically?
12:23 ahmadz moritz_: no... not right now... however checkout the changeset... lots of cr/lfs
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12:24 ahmadz moritz_: i could test it for you on my account...
12:26 moritz_ ahmadz: sorry about the cr/lfs... should I convert them to single lfs?
12:27 ahmadz moritz_: no need the only change you made is if(keyCode == 0) right?
12:27 moritz_ right
12:27 ahmadz moritz_: i will update my copy and test it...
12:28 ahmadz moritz_: http://feather.perl6.nl:8096/runpugs/
12:28 lambdabot Title: Run Perl 6 Now -- in your browser!
12:29 moritz_ ahmadz: didn't solve my problem :(
12:30 ahmadz moritz_: let me add my debugging on the interface...
12:44 ahmadz moritz_: it is now on... try it plz
12:44 ahmadz same url
12:44 moritz_ ahmadz: trying...
12:45 moritz_ ahmadz: I entered 'my @a;', and cmd= showed exactly that
12:46 ahmadz moritz_: and the reply alerts?
12:46 moritz_ and the response is the complete Pugs intro with ascii art, ... and then "Loading Prelude...done\n...> my\n...>"
12:46 moritz_ and then another one with a few &nbsp;s
12:46 ahmadz ok
12:47 ahmadz so it /perl/runpugs.pl
12:48 moritz_ do you log the cmd strings?
12:49 ahmadz ya but that's in andara's account since im using his server... let me check
12:51 ahmadz im not a sudoer... so i cant access it... /home/andara/apache/log/error.log
12:54 ahmadz moritz_: could u please try one last time? i added more logging [data to be sent to server]
12:55 ahmadz moritz_: as u can see our current runpugs send whole images of the whole session, even when we're sending commands, but that's going to be fixed soon with the ajax/json
12:56 Juerd ahmadz: If you need root access, there's feather3 for you :)
12:56 lambdabot Juerd: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
12:56 Juerd @messages
12:56 lambdabot ahmadz_ said 18h 25m 23s ago: "feather3.perl6.nl is now online, please check out http://feather3.perl6.nl/runpugs/"
12:56 ahmadz hi juerd
12:57 ahmadz juerd: could u help and copy /home/andara/apache/log/error.log to my /home/azawawi directory?
12:57 ahmadz jeurd: on feather0
12:57 Juerd No, you don't have access to feather0
12:57 Juerd ITYM feather1
12:58 moritz_ ahmadz: I tried again
12:58 ahmadz juerd: yeah feather1
13:05 pugs_svnbot r17904 | azawawi++ | [runpugs] added browser testing info
13:05 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17904
13:05 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17904 - Pugs - Trac
13:05 ahmadz i have to go home now... i will continue working on runpugs after 1-2 hours... cya all
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13:16 K0brik I was wondering something like: Whats the big difference. More strict class definitions?
13:16 moritz_ K0brik: difference between what and what?
13:16 K0brik perl6 and the former
13:16 moritz_ lots of them, actually
13:17 moritz_ here are some: http://dev.perl.org/perl6/faq.html
13:17 lambdabot Title: Perl 6 FAQ - perl6
13:17 K0brik did it get any worse?
13:18 moritz_ what?
13:18 K0brik I like perl 5 alot and thought of upgrading my code :)
13:18 moritz_ Perl 6 is not yet ready for production :/
13:18 moritz_ but you can contribute if you like
13:19 K0brik I'm writing some tutorials on OO in perl and mod_perl
13:19 moritz_ do you know about Moose?
13:20 moritz_ that provides some of the Perl 6 object model for Perl 5
13:20 K0brik some text gui?
13:20 moritz_ http://search.cpan.org/author/​STEVAN/Moose-0.25/lib/Moose.pm
13:20 lambdabot Title: Moose - A complete modern object system for Perl 5 - search.cpan.org
13:20 jrockway moose++
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13:21 avar ruoso: Yes, it's putting all the wrong stuff into blib/, that's known to be broken atm. I'm having make install die for that reason
13:23 pugs_svnbot r17905 | fglock++ | [kp6] examples/coro.pl - coro subroutine
13:23 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17905
13:23 ferreira @messages
13:23 lambdabot rhr said 16h 36m 1s ago: in 'my @E = map ...' there needs to be a comma after the block
13:23 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17905 - Pugs - Trac
13:23 ferreira @tell rhr Thanks. Fixed.
13:23 lambdabot Consider it noted.
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13:31 * K0brik ponders about a GTK perl6 debugger
13:31 moritz_ write one!
13:32 avar well, there's a gtk perl5 debugger...
13:32 K0brik good idea
13:32 moritz_ if you want to commit access to the pugs repository, just /msg me your email adress and desired nick name
13:32 K0brik avar: whats the name?
13:32 avar K0brik: emacs 22
13:32 moritz_ lol
13:32 K0brik damn. I though emacs had lots of problems even with perl highlighting
13:33 jrockway fuck no
13:33 avar no, it's the best perl highlighter
13:33 jrockway emacs has the best perl mode of anything else i've seen
13:33 K0brik avar: what mode do you use cperl?
13:33 avar yeah, cperl-mode
13:33 jrockway i am planning on porting angerwhale to elisp just so i can highlight my posts the same as emacs :)
13:33 K0brik cperl-mode is screwing my code
13:34 jrockway how?
13:34 moritz_ jrockway: wyh don't you just write Text::EmacsColor?
13:34 K0brik the auto indentation
13:34 moritz_ jrockway: in analogy to Text::VimColor
13:34 jrockway K0brik: don't use it then
13:34 jrockway moritz_: yeah
13:34 jrockway moritz_: if you thought vimcolor was slow, wait until you see emacscolor :)
13:34 moritz_ jrockway: then use PPI::HTML ;)
13:35 jrockway yes, that's a good idea
13:35 moritz_ jrockway: I wrote a offline CMS which uses vimcolor for syntax hilighting
13:35 moritz_ jrockway: because I couldn't find another hilighter for perl 6 code
13:35 moritz_ and I wanted syntax hilighting so badly for http://perl-6.de/
13:35 lambdabot Title: Perl 6 - Schmerzloses Programmieren
13:35 jrockway http://www.kentcowgill.org/blog/view/133
13:35 lambdabot Title: Too slow - kentcowgill.org/blog
13:36 moritz_ jrockway: caching, caching, caching
13:36 moritz_ I think it's acceptable to slow on posting
13:36 moritz_ that happens just every once in a while
13:36 jrockway i use Syntax::Higligh::Engine::Kate
13:37 jrockway but it's slow, and i cache too :)
13:37 moritz_ or you can even let the server side script fork into the background to do the hilighting progressively
13:37 jrockway angerwhale is mostly static, it only recalculates pages when they change
13:37 jrockway the real reason i haven't written emacscolor is that i don't know how
13:37 jrockway maybe exec emacs and have it print out its internal representation of the buffer
13:37 * jrockway delegates to avar for that
13:38 moritz_ jrockway: another idea... use a MAD enabled blead perl and parse its XML output
13:38 moritz_ then you get correct output - always ;)
13:38 jrockway emacs actually does a little better than MAD, it highlights inside regexes too
13:39 moritz_ I didn't know that MAD doesn't handle regexes
13:39 moritz_ jrockway: but it doesn't execute BEGIN blocks ;)
13:39 jrockway i think it just dumps them as a string
13:39 jrockway i haven't looked for a while though, so i could be completely wrong
13:40 jrockway code that i post to my blog doesn't use BEGIN to affect compiliation anyway :)
13:40 avar yes and the mad xml isn't very useful for most things, it's not an AST
13:40 moritz_ :)
13:40 jrockway anyway, to get back on topic
13:40 moritz_ avar: is it sufficient for syntax hilighting?
13:40 jrockway cperl lets you customize indentation
13:40 jrockway although i still haven't gotten it right in one place, and just press "C-u SPACE" in that situation
13:40 avar moritz_: it would be very painful
13:42 jrockway also
13:42 jrockway long time no see, avar
13:42 jrockway how is #perl these days?
13:43 avar meh
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13:46 K0brik #perl is strange
13:47 K0brik or maybe they forwarded me to the dreamers channel
13:48 K0brik I only go there when I want to be helpful
13:56 pugs_svnbot r17906 | fglock++ | [kp6] coro cleanup
13:56 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17906
13:56 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17906 - Pugs - Trac
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14:16 ferreira Juerd is the keeper of feather? I am interested at an account at feather. It would make much easier for me to work/experiment with pugs.
14:17 moritz_ ferreira: see http://www.mail-archive.com/perl6​-language@perl.org/msg20060.html
14:17 lambdabot Title: Perl development server
14:17 ferreira thanks
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14:56 pugs_svnbot r17907 | fglock++ | [kp6] (1 .. Inf) is a Range
14:56 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17907
14:56 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17907 - Pugs - Trac
14:57 moritz_ kp6: ((1 .. Inf).WHAT).say
14:57 exp_evalbot r17907: OUTPUT[no method 'say' in Class 'Range'␤]
14:57 moritz_ kp6: say (1 .. Inf).WHAT
14:57 exp_evalbot r17907: OUTPUT[Range␤]
14:57 moritz_ YaY
14:57 moritz_ kp6: say (1 .. Inf).perl
14:57 exp_evalbot r17907: OUTPUT[( 1..inf )␤]
14:57 moritz_ fglock++
14:58 Limbic_Region what about negative infinity to positive infinity?
14:58 moritz_ kp6: say (-Inf .. Inf).WHAT
14:58 exp_evalbot r17907: OUTPUT[syntax error at position 4, line 1 column 4:␤say (-Inf .. Inf).WHA␤    ^ HERE␤␤]
14:59 fglock_ kp6: (0 - Inf) .. Inf
14:59 exp_evalbot r17907: OUTPUT[( -inf..inf )␤]
15:00 fglock_ implementing prefix-minus ...
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15:14 pugs_svnbot r17908 | fglock++ | [kp6] -(1) - parentheses are required for now
15:14 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17908
15:15 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17908 - Pugs - Trac
15:18 fglock_ kp6: -(Inf)
15:18 exp_evalbot r17908: OUTPUT[-inf␤]
15:19 avar kp6: -(Inf) .. Inf
15:19 exp_evalbot r17908: OUTPUT[-139496048␤]
15:19 avar kp6: (-(Inf) .. Inf).WHAT
15:19 exp_evalbot r17908: OUTPUT[␤]
15:19 fglock_ mm?
15:20 moritz_ kp6: say (-(Inf) .. Inf).WHAT
15:20 exp_evalbot r17908: OUTPUT[Int␤]
15:20 fglock_ kp6: (-(Inf)) .. Inf
15:20 exp_evalbot r17908: OUTPUT[( -inf..inf )␤]
15:21 fglock_ precendence bug
15:21 fglock_ precedence
15:24 avar fglock_: Like the Makefile.PL stuff?
15:25 pmurias joined #perl6
15:25 pmurias hi
15:25 lambdabot pmurias: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
15:26 fglock_ avar: nice - thanks for working on it :)
15:27 avar fglock_: Is the -mp6- stuff going to be kept around?
15:27 barney joined #perl6
15:27 fglock_ yes, it doesn't bootstrap yet
15:28 avar is that going to happen any time soon?
15:28 avar I'm wondering how to make kp6 installable
15:29 moritz_ avar: you don't need the mp6 stuff at run time
15:29 moritz_ avar: so for non-cpan usage you can just compile it to perl 5
15:29 fglock_ it is possible to install the kp6-mp6 version for now, and switch when it bootstraps
15:29 avar might need lib-modules-kp6-mp6-p5
15:30 avar but anyway, I think it's best to have blib look like blib/lib/KindaPerl6/kp6-mp6-p5/{modules,lib}/, what do you think? That would make room for multiple emitter backends
15:30 TJCRI joined #perl6
15:31 avar then the frontends could look for KindaPerl6/$something/lib/ in @INC
15:31 fglock_ it makes sense to me
15:35 avar make forcerecompile all fails b.t.w.
15:36 pmurias fglock_: any thoughts how context wars could be implemented, they might be usefull for example gather
15:37 pmurias * for gather
15:37 pmurias i'm thinking of PadWalker
15:37 pmurias but it's a additional dependenciy
15:37 fglock_ pmurias: either by asking the Pad object, or PadWalker - I'd rather use Pad, because it's more portable
15:38 pmurias * dependency
15:38 fglock_ i think gather doesn't need it
15:38 pmurias one could use a local
15:38 fglock_ i'm planning to use coroutines for lazy gather
15:39 fglock_ $ perl examples/coro.pl
15:39 fglock_ i'm trying out a visitor to implement that
15:39 pmurias is gathers laziness speced somewhere?
15:40 moritz_ I think implicitly "all lists are lazy"
15:40 fglock_ looking
15:41 PerlJam all lists are lazy is specced, so I'd call that "explicit"  :)
15:41 PerlJam (unless you've marked them otherwise)
15:41 pmurias List context in Perl 6 is by default lazy.
15:42 pmurias S02
15:46 Limbic_Region I am lazy but I don't think there is any need to spec that - just check out my waist line
15:50 ashleyb joined #perl6
15:51 pmurias fglock_: looked a examples/coro.pl lookes sane
15:51 ruoso joined #perl6
15:52 moritz_ Limbic_Region: perhaps we need to know that when we execu^Wimplement you ;)
15:53 Limbic_Region moritz++
15:56 drrho joined #perl6
16:00 bloonix which combination on my keyboard prints ␤ ?
16:00 pugs_svnbot r17909 | fglock++ | [kp6] Visitor::Coro stub
16:00 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17909
16:00 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17909 - Pugs - Trac
16:13 pmurias fglock_: using a seperate AST node for Gather might be resonable
16:16 fglock_ k
16:17 pmurias shall i extend the grammar?
16:18 fglock_ i'm working on it :)
16:19 pmurias thought so, did it anyway ;)
16:19 fglock_ heh
16:20 fglock_ i'm only working on coro - i think gather can be implemented as syntax sugar
16:20 pugs_svnbot r17910 | fglock++ | [kp6] added Coro node
16:20 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17910
16:20 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17910 - Pugs - Trac
16:21 fglock_ no need for a gather node
16:23 [particle] joined #perl6
16:24 pmurias i need to stop using the http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset
16:24 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17910 - Pugs - Trac
16:24 pmurias diffs which change the -p5 dirs are to big for my firefox
16:29 Southen_ joined #perl6
16:31 pugs_svnbot r17911 | fglock++ | [kp6] added coro to the grammar
16:31 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17911
16:31 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17911 - Pugs - Trac
16:47 Aankhen`` joined #perl6
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16:54 ahmadz joined #perl6
16:55 ahmadz hi all
16:55 TimToady fglock_: note that gather/take is currently specced as dynamically scoped, not lexically.  I wonder whether coro can handle a take in different sub than its gather.
16:56 TimToady ahmadz: hi
16:56 weinig joined #perl6
16:57 moritz_ TimToady: do you think custom ternary (or n-ary) operators should be possible?
16:58 moritz_ is that possible with STD's approach?
16:58 moritz_ I'm refering to http://www.perlmonks.org/?node_id=639643
16:58 lambdabot Title: &#91;Perl 6&#93; Even more freedom for custom operators?
16:59 fglock_ yes, i'm handling that case - but what i'm calling "coro" not be the same thing
16:59 TimToady well, anything is possible.  the current bottom-up parser is just a method, after all
17:00 fglock_ may not be
17:00 TimToady k
17:00 justatheory joined #perl6
17:00 fglock_ i wonder if you had a specific implementation strategy in mind?
17:01 TimToady not really
17:02 moritz_ TimToady: ok, let's rephrase it: it is feasible without too much change to existing STD?
17:02 TimToady gather/take is just a way to hide continuations inside list context, theoretically
17:02 TimToady define "too much"
17:02 TimToady method EXPR does 1-token lookahead
17:02 moritz_ too much = change at least 30% of existing code in STD
17:03 TimToady you could write an EXPR that does multi-token lookahead
17:03 TimToady and it would be roughly the same size as the current EXPR method
17:03 ferreira joined #perl6
17:03 moritz_ but it would impose a performance overhead, right?
17:04 TimToady the primary difficulty is not performance, it's explaining to mere mortals why it isn't doing simple operator precedence anymore :)
17:04 moritz_ ok, that answers my question, thank you ;)
17:04 TimToady it makes it a lot hard to answer "What went wrong with my program?"
17:05 TimToady *harder
17:05 TimToady still haven't got to PM yet this morning, obviously...
17:06 TimToady darn, it's too early to make jokes too
17:06 TimToady should have said
17:06 TimToady still haven't got to PM yet this AM, obviously
17:07 moritz_ ;)
17:07 TimToady but if you folx will stop saying interesting things for a while, maybe I'll get a chance :)
17:09 Psyche^ joined #perl6
17:14 fglock_ i wonder if dynamically scoped coros would be more useful
17:15 rindolf joined #perl6
17:16 TimToady well, a yield has to know where it's sending its value somehow
17:17 TimToady a coro sends its value to the caller of this routine, at least by defualt
17:17 TimToady a take sends its output unambiguously to the innermost dynamically scoped gather
17:27 pmurias pugs: sub f { my $a = -> $x {return $x} $a("?") }; say f()
17:27 exp_evalbot OUTPUT[*** ␤    Unexpected "$a"␤    expecting operator or "}"␤    at /tmp/cLdYdj8RC9 line 1, column 35␤]
17:27 pmurias pugs: sub f { my $a = -> $x {return $x}; $a("?") }; say f()
17:27 exp_evalbot OUTPUT[?␤]
17:27 vel joined #perl6
17:27 pmurias pugs: sub f { my $a = -> $x {return $x}; $a("?");"?!" }; say f()
17:27 exp_evalbot OUTPUT[?␤]
17:29 Limbic_Region TimToady - the number of perl 6 related questions at PM in the last few days has seemed to jumped up - which happens every so often
17:34 d4l3k_ joined #perl6
17:35 ferreira Limbic_Region: you say it due to the three top nodes by blazar, "Perl 6 and exe" and the micro-articles? Or there is more I am not seeing?
17:37 ruoso joined #perl6
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17:37 cognominal joined #perl6
17:37 Limbic_Region ferreira - I say it based off spending every day obsessed with PM
17:39 Limbic_Region did you read "Musings on the future"?
17:39 ferreira Nope. But I will ;-)
17:43 TJCRI joined #perl6
17:43 ahmadz @seen moritz_
17:43 lambdabot moritz_ is in #perl6. I don't know when moritz_ last spoke.
17:46 ahmadz @tell moritz_ "I added more debugging aids to runpugs on http://feather.perl6.nl:8096/runpugs/). Please send me the whole status line so i can debug.
17:46 lambdabot Consider it noted.
17:46 ferreira Limbic_Region: Interesting reading.
17:48 fglock_ Limbic_Region: link?
17:49 Limbic_Region ferreira - yes, but don't confuse it why my similarily named node "Anticipation of future needs and other musings from the crystal ball" http://www.perlmonks.org/?node_id=194937
17:49 lambdabot Title: Anticipation of future needs and other musings from the crystal ball
17:49 Limbic_Region fglock_ - just a sec
17:50 Limbic_Region http://www.perlmonks.org/?node_id=639289 # the one about perl 6
17:50 lambdabot Title: Musings on the future
17:50 ferreira I've not read yours yet. I just looked for the title you gave.
17:51 Limbic_Region ferreira - don't bother reading mine.  It was from years ago when I had just started with perl
17:51 Limbic_Region I just found it funny that it had a similar title
17:51 * Limbic_Region wonders if TimToady reads his /msgs on PM
17:52 * ferreira thinks he does, but he won't tell you ;-)
17:56 Juerd ferreira: I'm creating an account for you in a few minutes :)
17:56 Juerd I need to reboot my laptop first
17:57 ferreira Juerd: thanks
17:58 fglock_ home &
17:59 blindfish joined #perl6
18:01 ferreira I'm not very inspired. The next article is by now an insipid text about the concatenation operation: http://ferreira.nfshost.com/perl6/stitching6.html
18:01 lambdabot Title: stitching.pod6
18:01 ferreira Not much to say about it.
18:02 ferreira Hey, that title was chosen by perldoc2xhtml, not me.
18:04 ferreira Comments and feedback welcome.
18:04 ferreira The pretention is to publish the article at ONLamp Monday, Wednesday and Friday.
18:05 Juerd ferreira: Check your mail :)
18:05 ferreira Well, it started today (Tuesday) but I think it can get regular from tomorrow on.
18:06 Juerd ferreira: "String append is likewise '~='." is not redundant enough to be understood by someone who is not fluent in English
18:07 lambdabot joined #perl6
18:07 ferreira Juerd: thanks again. I will follow the instructions.
18:07 Juerd I suggest: "Appending to a string can likewise be done with ~=. Compare to += that adds to a number."
18:07 ferreira Agreed.
18:08 silug joined #perl6
18:08 Juerd "The infix operator '~' keeps additive precedence in Perl 6." - I do not know what additive precedence is :)
18:09 ferreira The same precedence of '+' :/ This is not very informative, is it?
18:12 riffraff joined #perl6
18:16 jisom joined #perl6
18:21 ashleyb joined #perl6
18:23 ferreira Juerd: your suggestions were entered into the article.
18:24 moritz_ @tell ahmadz 'my @a' results in ascii=(109,121,32,0,64,97,)
18:24 lambdabot Consider it noted.
18:25 moritz_ @tell ahmadz and everything after the 0 byte is ignored, it seems
18:25 lambdabot Consider it noted.
18:26 ahmadz joined #perl6
18:26 ahmadz kp6: my @a = <1 2 3>;
18:26 lambdabot ahmadz: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them.
18:26 exp_evalbot r17911: OUTPUT[syntax error at position 6, line 1 column 6:␤my @a = <1 2 3>␤      ^ HERE␤]
18:26 ahmadz @messages
18:26 lambdabot moritz_ said 2m 26s ago: 'my @a' results in ascii=(109,121,32,0,64,97,)
18:26 lambdabot moritz_ said 1m 37s ago: and everything after the 0 byte is ignored, it seems
18:26 Juerd What country is .jo?
18:27 [particle] it's next to .jp
18:27 Juerd Grin
18:27 ahmadz jordan...
18:27 TimToady ferreira: "'.' was after a few years of OO practice the operator by excellence to join..." is not really English
18:27 Juerd Ah. I think I've never seen a .jo hostname before!
18:28 ahmadz juerd: ;-)
18:28 TimToady did you mean "the operator of choice"?
18:30 ferreira yes, makes sense. I use to write a few silly things in English because I try not to think in my own language. And then I think for a moment and it seems like I am not thinking at all.
18:31 TimToady also "after a few years of OO practice" sounds like "after a few rounds of golf practice"
18:31 TimToady that is, it sounds like you're doing the practicing, not the industry
18:32 TimToady perhaps the phrase "common practice" could be used
18:32 dduncan joined #perl6
18:34 ferreira Replaced 'OO practice' by 'common practice'. It improved.
18:37 ferreira Sometimes I insist on some expressions, like the 'OO' in this case, and then I discover it doesn't add much.
18:41 TimToady well, "common OO practice" would work fine too
18:43 TimToady one other thing, I usually use Perl&nbsp;6 just to avoid line breaks in the middle
18:44 ferreira ok. How do I say that in POD6: E<nbsp> ?
18:47 ferreira Yes, that works. I will need to tame perldoc2xhtml (the XHTML producer of Perl6::Perldoc) to produce the HTML without line breaks in paragraphs, to keep MT happy (that's what ONLamp uses).
19:06 lisppaste3 joined #perl6
19:11 pugs_svnbot r17912 | azawawi++ | [runpugs] fixed moritz's AltGr+q problem by filtering all keys on ascii value in keypress
19:11 pugs_svnbot r17912 | azawawi++ | [runpugs] added debug on/off aids in runpugs.js to debug communication
19:11 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17912
19:11 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17912 - Pugs - Trac
19:12 ahmadz joined #perl6
19:16 ferreira Well, I learned a bit of POD6 today. It seems nice. I will think about at an extension define for example a macro inline code. That would make possible to write M<Perl 6> that rendered as PerlE<nbsp>6.
19:21 moritz_ ahmadz++ # YaY, it worked
19:21 lambdabot moritz_: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
19:22 ahmadz ahmadz: ty ;-)
19:22 moritz_ @massages
19:22 lambdabot ahmadz said 1h 36m 4s ago: "I added more debugging aids to runpugs on http://feather.perl6.nl:8096/runpugs/). Please send me the whole status line so i can debug.
19:22 ahmadz moritz: ty ;-)
19:22 moritz_ thank _you_ ;)
19:25 TimToady ferreira: well, M<Perl 6> would have no advantage over S<Perl 6>.
19:25 ahmadz moritz_: http://feather3.perl6.nl/runpugs/ has now the same fixes... off to runpugs tutorial task ;-)
19:25 lambdabot Title: Run Perl 6 Now -- in your browser!
19:30 pugs_svnbot r17913 | azawawi++ | [runpugs] removed AltGr bug from TODO
19:30 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17913
19:30 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17913 - Pugs - Trac
19:30 ferreira It seems like I spoke too soon about learning something about POD6. Strangely, perlpod2xhtml is translating S<Perl 6> into bizarre "&nbsp;P&nbsp;e&nbsp;r&nbsp;l&nbsp; &nbsp;6&nbsp;"
19:31 avar kp6: my @a = <a b c>; \@a
19:31 exp_evalbot r17913: OUTPUT[syntax error at position 6, line 1 column 6:␤my @a = <a b c>; \@␤      ^ HERE␤]
19:32 ferreira \ is for captures, I think
19:32 ferreira pugs: my @a = < a b c>; \@a
19:32 exp_evalbot OUTPUT[["a", "b", "c"]␤]
19:32 avar kp6: my @a = ("a", "b", "c"); @a
19:32 exp_evalbot r17913: OUTPUT[syntax error at position 6, line 1 column 6:␤my @a = ("a", "b", "c"); @␤      ^ HERE␤]
19:32 ferreira well, it is not working yet in kp6
19:33 avar kp6: my @a := "a"; @a
19:33 exp_evalbot r17913: OUTPUT['a'␤]
19:34 avar kp6: my @a := <a b c>; @a
19:34 exp_evalbot r17913: OUTPUT[syntax error at position 6, line 1 column 6:␤my @a := <a b c>; @␤      ^ HERE␤]
19:34 ferreira Funny. Damian got bit by x modifier: " $text =~ s{ }{&nbsp;}gxms; " should have been " $text =~ s{[ ]}{&nbsp;}gxms; "
19:35 avar shouldn't have used /x at all
19:36 avar and ms?
19:36 ferreira but his rule is to always use /gxms, so what he should have not forgotten is [ ] to make space explicit
19:37 ferreira s| to always use /gxms | to always use /xms |
19:38 ferreira the /g was to get a global substitution
19:39 avar always use /gxms? is that one of his retarded best practices? *ducks*
19:40 ferreira yep. These practices made into Perl 6 as well. /x is no longer necessary, because it is the default. (Use rx:perl5// or something to get the old behavior)
19:41 avar Yes, but why would you want /s AND /m ?
19:41 PerlJam sado masochism.
19:42 TimToady in p6 /s is default but not /m
19:42 TimToady that is, . always matches anything, but ^ and $ are still beg/end of the entire string
19:43 ferreira joined #perl6
19:43 TimToady and they are no longer switched lexically.  use \N or ^^ or $$ explicitly to get the other behavior
19:43 avar well that's because p6 ^ and $ != p5 ^ and $, and ^^ and $$ = \A and \z
19:43 [particle] perl 6 regexes are sadistic by default, but no longer masochistic
19:43 avar :)
19:44 PerlJam perl 6 regex is *much* saner by default.
19:44 rff_ joined #perl6
19:44 PerlJam *much* *saner*
19:45 TimToady avar: no, you've got ^^ and $$ backwards
19:45 TimToady \A and \z are ^ and $
19:45 avar yeah, seems like it:)
19:46 avar But when is /sm in p5 not the same thing as /s ?
19:46 TimToady mnemonic: ^^ and $$ can match multiple times in the same string
19:46 TimToady they're entirely independent
19:46 TimToady the /s merely changes the meaning of ., while the /m merely changes the meaning of ^ and $
19:47 TimToady they're only related by both usages being correlated to having a string with multiple lines in it
19:49 TimToady part of why Damian's BP on that is bogus is that /^foo/ can be optimized much better than /^foo/m can
19:49 TimToady and, in fact, that's why the default is the way it is in p5
19:49 ahmadz joined #perl6
19:50 TimToady afk &
19:52 ferreira I just mailed a patch to Damian via RT CPAN. Someone knows if it would be faster if other e-mail/channel were used to talk to him?
19:52 PerlJam "faster"?  I don't think the bottleneck is in getting the text to Damian, but rather getting the Damian to process it and respond.
19:53 avar Damian replies to e-mail patches, don't know about rt
19:53 justatheory joined #perl6
19:53 avar ferreira: Is this for the perldoc6 stuff?
19:54 ferreira Yes. It is a fix to XHTML conversion in Perl6-Perldoc-v0.0.5 distribution
19:58 ferreira Hum. "Damian Conway incommunicado at present" - "I'm won't have access to email from September 13 to September 23" Well, I knew he was a busy man.
19:59 TJCRI joined #perl6
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20:13 pugs_svnbot r17914 | azawawi++ | adding initial unedited tutorial files
20:13 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17914
20:13 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17914 - Pugs - Trac
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