Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2007-09-20

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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Time Nick Message
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00:36 davidfetter hello
00:37 davidfetter i'm packaging parrot RPMs and i'm trying to figure out how to get it to create a perl5 Parrot:: package. anybody have experience with this kind of thing?
00:38 Tene davidfetter: you might have a bit more luck in #parrot on irc.perl.org, if nobody responds here.
00:38 Tene Oh, you're already there.  Nevermind.
00:39 davidfetter heh
00:39 davidfetter great CD, that
00:40 Tene CD?
00:40 davidfetter Nervermind. it's by nirvana :)
00:40 davidfetter Nevermind*
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00:56 Juerd Big network maintenance tomorrow 0:00 - 4:00 CET
00:57 Juerd feather will be offline a few times.
00:57 Juerd (online intermittently...)
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03:04 Schwern How does one rollback a change?  svk merge -c1234 //local/project says it did something, but appears to have had no effect.
03:04 Schwern Hey, this isn't #svk!
03:04 Schwern cads!
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09:42 pugs_svnbot r17966 | Aankhen++ | * added *.fasl to svn:ignore.
09:42 pugs_svnbot r17967 | Aankhen++ | * kp6 Lisp: added package.lisp
09:42 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17967
09:42 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17967 - Pugs - Trac
09:48 pugs_svnbot r17968 | Aankhen++ | kp6-cl:
09:48 pugs_svnbot r17968 | Aankhen++ | * normalized EOL at EOF.
09:48 pugs_svnbot r17968 | Aankhen++ | * placed all code in KP6-CL package.
09:48 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17968
09:48 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17968 - Pugs - Trac
09:54 pugs_svnbot r17969 | Aankhen++ | * kp6-cl: eliminate redundancy in Runtime.lisp
09:54 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17969
09:54 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17969 - Pugs - Trac
09:55 Aankhen`` Strange… my changes to EmitLisp.pm don't seem to be taking effect.
09:58 avar did you do `make' ?
09:59 Aankhen`` Er, no.
09:59 Aankhen`` One sec. :-P
10:10 Aankhen`` Boy, it sure takes a while.
10:16 Aankhen`` avar: I ran make, now what?
10:20 Aankhen`` The changes still don't seem to be having an effect. :-|
10:27 Aankhen`` AVAR WAKE UP
10:28 avar uh, I don't know
10:29 avar what did you change
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10:30 Aankhen`` Added a line to CompUnit::emit_lisp's output.
10:31 avar don't see it after my svk pull
10:32 Aankhen`` I haven't checked it in, wanted to test it.
10:32 Aankhen`` One sec.
10:34 Aankhen`` Okay, pull now.
10:34 pugs_svnbot r17970 | Aankhen++ | kp6-cl:
10:34 pugs_svnbot r17970 | Aankhen++ | * import CL package.
10:34 pugs_svnbot r17970 | Aankhen++ | * use #: notation in DEFPACKAGE.
10:34 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17970
10:34 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17970 - Pugs - Trac
10:37 avar why use #: ?
10:38 Aankhen`` To avoid interning a bunch of symbols in the KEYWORD package.
10:38 Aankhen`` It's not required, just good form.
10:38 avar I don't see anything new in emit_lisp
10:39 avar ah, defpackage
10:39 Aankhen`` You ought to see ~ '  (:use #:cl))' ~ Main::newline() at the very least.
10:39 avar $ echo '[ 1, 2 ]' | perl kp6-mp6-perl5.pl --lisp
10:39 avar (defpackage #:Main
10:39 avar (:use #:cl))
10:39 avar (in-package #:Main)
10:39 avar works here
10:39 Aankhen`` Then why not for me? :-S
10:40 avar ;; Compiling file /var/src/pugs/v6/v6-KindaPerl6/lib/KindaPerl6/Runtime/Lisp/Array.lisp ...
10:40 avar WARNING: Cannot redefine #<BUILT-IN-CLASS ARRAY> with a different metaclass #<STANDARD-CLASS STANDARD-CLASS>
10:40 avar *** - (SETF FIND-CLASS): cannot redefine built-in class #<BUILT-IN-CLASS ARRAY>
10:40 Aankhen`` I'm trying the exact same code as you, but it gives the same output as before.
10:40 Aankhen`` Yup.
10:41 Aankhen`` The code defines some classes with the same names as builtin classes.
10:41 avar yes you're not regenerating for some reason
10:41 Aankhen`` Yeah.
10:41 avar what system is this?
10:41 avar what version of make?
10:42 Aankhen`` 3.81
10:42 pugs_svnbot r17971 | avar++ |  r63583@t:  avar | 2007-09-20 10:41:03 +0000
10:42 pugs_svnbot r17971 | avar++ |  generated files with EmitLisp.pm changes
10:42 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17971
10:42 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17971 - Pugs - Trac
10:42 Aankhen`` I'm going to try running `make` again.
10:42 Aankhen`` After that I'll start mangling the class names.
10:42 Aankhen`` Actually, I can do that while it's building, since it takes so long.
10:44 Aankhen`` Oh, now it works.
10:44 Aankhen`` And it only compiled EmitLisp.pm this time.
10:48 pugs_svnbot r17972 | Aankhen++ | * kp6-cl: name mangling to prevent conflicts with builtin classes.
10:48 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17972
10:48 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17972 - Pugs - Trac
10:49 avar you also have to change the emitter
10:50 Aankhen`` Indeed. :-)
10:50 pugs_svnbot r17973 | Aankhen++ | * kp6-cl: name mangling in EmitLisp.pm too.
10:50 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17973
10:50 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17973 - Pugs - Trac
10:51 avar forgot 'make' :)
10:53 pugs_svnbot r17974 | Aankhen++ | * kp6-cl: missed a couple names to mangle.
10:53 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17974
10:53 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17974 - Pugs - Trac
10:53 Aankhen`` Bleh, missed another one too.
10:53 pugs_svnbot r17975 | Aankhen++ | * kp6-cl: regenerated files with EmitLisp.pm changes.
10:53 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17975
10:53 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17975 - Pugs - Trac
10:57 Aankhen`` Back in a few, lunch. :-)
11:14 avar echo 'say { foo => "bar" }' | perl kp6-mp6-perl5.pl --lisp | perl -pe 's/apply \$global::code_/apply kp6-cl::/i'|cli\
11:14 avar sp
11:17 pugs_svnbot r17976 | fglock++ | [kp6-kp6] added some debugging code
11:17 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17976
11:18 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17976 - Pugs - Trac
11:21 Aankhen`` avar: ?
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11:29 avar Aankhen``: try that
11:29 avar *** - FIND-CLASS: KP6-STR does not name a class
11:29 Aankhen`` Yeah, I've added the classes to the export list locally.
11:29 avar :)
11:29 Aankhen`` I'm more concerned with the invocant bit though.
11:30 Aankhen`` How does the $GLOBAL::code_say get in there?
11:30 Aankhen`` Or rather, isn't there any way to just get the name of the routine being called?
11:30 Aankhen`` I'm just doing an s/// for now.
11:31 Aankhen`` Or perhaps not.  Bleh.
11:31 Aankhen`` Trying to use s/// makes it blow up.
11:31 fglock Aankhen``: the routine is a Code object; GLOBAL::Code_say is the name of the variable that contains the Code object
11:31 lambdabot fglock: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
11:32 Aankhen`` fglock: Ah.
11:33 Aankhen`` How would one mangle that into kp6-cl::say?
11:34 fglock can you use namespaces? GLOBAL is required, if possible
11:35 Aankhen`` kp6-cl is the namespace in kp6-cl::say, natch.  I could change it to GLOBAL::say if you'd prefer, though.
11:36 fglock how about kp6::GLOBAL::say
11:36 fglock or kp6-GLOBAL::say
11:36 Aankhen`` The latter seems good to me.
11:37 avar CL has no concept of sub-namespaces right?
11:37 Aankhen`` avar: Right.
11:37 Aankhen`` You could have a module named kp6::GLOBAL.
11:37 Aankhen`` But that would be the entire name, not a hierarchy.
11:37 pugs_svnbot r17977 | Aankhen++ | kp6-cl:
11:37 pugs_svnbot r17977 | Aankhen++ | * export types.
11:37 pugs_svnbot r17977 | Aankhen++ | * don't use for-side-effects loop in SAY.
11:37 pugs_svnbot r17977 | Aankhen++ | * load runtime before other code.
11:37 pugs_svnbot r17977 | Aankhen++ | * regenerated EmitLisp.pm files.
11:37 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17977
11:37 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17977 - Pugs - Trac
11:38 fglock Aankhen``: i'll change it
11:38 Aankhen`` Kewl.
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11:41 fglock how about kp6-GLOBAL::kp6-say, such that both the namespace and the variable name are mangled?
11:42 Aankhen`` Sure.
11:42 Aankhen`` The AST needs the variable name to be mangled?
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11:47 fglock no, just at the emitter (almost done)
11:47 Aankhen`` Ah.
11:50 pugs_svnbot r17978 | fglock++ | [kp6-lisp] &GLOBAL::say mangled to kp6-GLOBAL::kp6-Code_say
11:50 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17978
11:50 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17978 - Pugs - Trac
11:57 avar ;; Compiling file /var/src/pugs/v6/v6-KindaPerl6/lib/KindaPerl6/Runtime/Lisp/GLOBAL.lisp ...
11:57 avar *** - SYSTEM::%FIND-PACKAGE: There is no package with name "KP6-GLOBAL"
11:57 avar hrm, wtf
11:58 fglock GLOBAL.lisp declares itself as #:kp6-cl
12:00 Aankhen`` I'm working on it. :-)
12:00 Aankhen`` Should a KP6-UNDEF class go in Undef.lisp?
12:00 Aankhen`` Or is there a better place for it?
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12:02 pugs_svnbot r17979 | fglock++ | [kp6-lisp] declare package name in GLOBAL
12:02 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17979
12:02 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17979 - Pugs - Trac
12:02 fglock Aankhen``: i think so
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12:03 pugs_svnbot r17980 | Aankhen++ | * kp6-cl: added Undef.lisp
12:03 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17980
12:03 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17980 - Pugs - Trac
12:05 avar ;;  Loading file /var/src/pugs/v6/v6-KindaPerl6/lib/KindaPerl6/Runtime/Lisp/GLOBAL.fas ...
12:05 avar *** - FIND-CLASS: KP6-CODE does not name a class
12:05 avar is that an issue with it being in #:kp6-cl ?
12:05 * avar can't use sbcl ;/
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12:12 qewer4 hi,  i use Wordpress 2.2.2 Classic Theme 1.5. is it possible to show the treatment-field seperated on a site?
12:13 avar you're in the wrong channel
12:14 qewer4 ive also tried it in #wordpress but its deserted
12:15 avar You should probably try their mailing list instead of joining random unrelated channels asking about wordpress
12:15 Aankhen`` What makes you think anyone here will be able to help you? :-S
12:18 qewer4 so can you help me?
12:20 qewer4 avar: are you avatar?
12:21 avar qewer4: no
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12:24 moritz_ re
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12:52 hoelzro I have a quick question about the ..., ???, and !!! operators in Pugs.  I don't mean to sound ungrateful or anything, but I was just wondering why these haven't been implemented yet.  It seems like they'd be pretty easy to implement.  Are they just not a high priority?
12:53 moritz_ hoelzro: there could be many reasons, one of them priority
12:53 moritz_ hoelzro: other possible reasons are "no test case", or "too new in the specs"
12:54 hoelzro I wasn't aware the feature was that new, but then again, I've only been reading about Perl 6 for a few weeks now =P
12:55 moritz_ hoelzro: I don't know if "too new" applies here, it's just a general guess
12:55 hoelzro oh ok
12:56 moritz_ hoelzro: btw do you have a commit bit?
12:57 hoelzro no,  but I'd like one;  I'd like to try my hand at implementing those operators and the test cases for them
12:57 hoelzro I figure those three operators would be a good starting point
12:57 moritz_ hoelzro: very good idea
12:58 moritz_ sadly I don't have my password around, so we need to wait for somebody else ;)
12:58 moritz_ fglock, diakopter, Juerd: are you around? hoelzro wants a commit bit ;)
12:59 ruoso hoelzro, are you meaning "??" and "!!"
12:59 ruoso the ternary if?
12:59 hoelzro no, the yada-yada operator and friends
12:59 hoelzro the ones that call fail, die, and warn
12:59 ruoso ah... ok
13:00 moritz_ ruoso: do you take the honor of inviting hoelzro? I don't have my password at hand ;)
13:00 ruoso moritz_, and I don't remember the url ;)
13:01 moritz_ ruoso: http://commitbit.pugscode.org/ # I hope ;)
13:01 lambdabot Title: Welcome to CommitBit for PugsCode
13:01 ruoso hoelzro, what's your email addr?
13:01 hoelzro hoelz@wisc.edu
13:01 ruoso moritz_, hoelzro, oops... I can't invite...
13:02 ruoso ahmmm
13:02 ruoso I think I can
13:02 ruoso I was just lost in commitbit interface
13:02 moritz_ ok ;)
13:03 ruoso done
13:03 moritz_ ruoso++
13:03 hoelzro thanks much
13:05 moritz_ hoelzro: did you read Pugs::Doc::Hack in docs/?
13:05 hoelzro not yet
13:06 avar hoelzro: ??? !!! aren't implemented because pugs (the hs implementation) is pretty much abandonware
13:07 moritz_ hoelzro: don't listen to avar ;)
13:08 avar the "na na na na na na" method?:)
13:08 moritz_ yes ;)
13:08 moritz_ avar: or what do you mean by "abandonware"? that it will finally be replaced by a 6-on-6 implementation and doesn't need much sugar?
13:09 avar Development of pugs pretty much dropped to a standstill when audrey wasn't active anymore
13:10 avar at least I haven't seen any substancial .hs commits since early this year
13:10 moritz_ avar: that's why we need to encourage people to work on it ;)
13:11 avar Yes by all means work on it, I'm just offering an IMO more realistic explanation for why that and a bunch of other stuff isn't implemented
13:11 moritz_ avar: ok ;)
13:12 moritz_ I think it still makes sense to work on everything but the object model
13:12 hoelzro so there hasn't been much work on the Haskell portion of pugs?
13:13 moritz_ hoelzro: right
13:13 hoelzro is that because not enough devs know Haskell?
13:14 moritz_ hoelzro: yes, mostly
13:14 hoelzro more work for me then =P
13:14 moritz_ hoelzro: audreyt has been seriously sick, and didn't commit very much since then
13:14 avar sick + doing other stuff
13:14 avar syck?:)
13:14 moritz_ yes
13:15 ruoso fglock, we need to hunt doewn the bind/assign problem
13:15 ruoso I just got another accidental circular reference
13:16 ruoso which makes a deep recursion that eats the memory in 10 seconds
13:17 moritz_ hoelzro: btw it is a cutom to add your name to AUTHORS in the first commit, to test the commit bit
13:17 ruoso hoelzro, and you can always check your karma ;)
13:17 ruoso (is karma alive?)
13:18 moritz_ @karma ruoso
13:18 lambdabot ruoso has a karma of 96
13:18 moritz_ @karma moritz
13:18 lambdabot moritz has a karma of 106
13:19 hoelzro karma?
13:20 moritz_ it's really just a programmer's jok
13:20 moritz_ s/jok/joke/
13:20 avar @karma avar
13:20 lambdabot You have a karma of 46
13:20 moritz_ when somebody writes hoelzro++, your karma is increased by one
13:20 avar I GROW STRONGER
13:20 hoelzro oh
13:21 hoelzro I assume it won't work if I do it?  =D
13:21 moritz_ avar: but compared to ruoso and me you still suck ;) SCNR
13:21 moritz_ hoelzro: right
13:21 avar moritz_: I challange you to unicycle jousting
13:21 ruoso hoelzro, it'll probably decrease
13:21 hoelzro haha
13:21 pugs_svnbot r17981 | ruoso++ | [kp6] preventing circular references in Visitor/Token.pm
13:21 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17981
13:21 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17981 - Pugs - Trac
13:21 moritz_ hoelzro: and when you commit something to the svn repo, pugs_svnbot will automatically increase your karma ;)
13:22 avar the longer the log message the more KARMA
13:22 ruoso avar, hehe... I've never realised that
13:22 * ruoso will start to write longer messages
13:22 ruoso haeheh
13:22 avar start using svk too, implicit karma
13:22 ruoso one char by lien
13:22 ruoso s/lien/line/
13:23 hoelzro so should I make a commit with just my change to AUTHORS then?  or should I do actual work, then commit?
13:24 avar hoelzro: We have a very strict commit rule: there are none:)
13:24 avar but commit frequently after each logical change:)
13:24 hoelzro I'm a fan of committing often =D
13:24 avar *and after
13:24 moritz_ hoelzro: that's good
13:25 hoelzro which is something my co-workers don't really practice...
13:25 hoelzro but they're using VSS, so can you blame them?
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13:26 moritz_ wtf is VSS?
13:26 hoelzro visual sourcesafe?
13:26 hoelzro be happy you never heard of it
13:26 moritz_ ok, I am ;)
13:26 hoelzro it's Microsoft's RCS
13:26 hoelzro and it's TERRIBLE
13:26 avar it's more crappy than that, amazingly
13:26 moritz_ is it meant for Word files? ;-)
13:27 hoelzro no, plain text
13:31 hoelzro but that doesn't stop us from using it for .docs...
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13:32 allbery_b ah, visual sourcesafe, the source motel
13:33 hoelzro what a great analogy!
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13:41 ruoso fglock, found the problem in the !before token
13:41 ruoso it was returning $MATCH, instead of $MATCH.bool
13:41 ruoso hmm
13:41 ruoso Match.true should return Match.bool.true
13:41 ruoso hmm
13:41 ruoso interesting
13:42 ruoso it wasn't ;)
13:42 ruoso the bool object always evaluate as true...
13:42 ruoso hmm
13:42 ruoso there are some things weird in this object system
13:43 moritz_ kp6: say (3!=3)
13:43 exp_evalbot r17981: OUTPUT[␤]
13:43 moritz_ kp6: say (3==3)
13:43 exp_evalbot r17981: OUTPUT[1␤]
13:44 ruoso kp6: class MyClass { has $.bool; method true { return $.bool } }; my $a = MyClass.new(); $a.bool = 1; if ($a) { "ok "} else { "not ok" }
13:44 exp_evalbot r17981: OUTPUT[syntax error at position 0, line 1 column 0:␤( ( do { class MyClass { has $.bool; method true { return $.bool } }; my $a = MyClass.new(); $a.bool = 1; if ($a) { "ok "} else { "not ok" } } ).perl ).sa␤^ HERE␤]
13:44 ruoso kp6: class MyClass { has $.bool; method true { return $.bool } }; my $a = MyClass.new(); $a.bool = 1; if ($a) { "ok "} else { "not ok" };
13:44 exp_evalbot r17981: OUTPUT[syntax error at position 0, line 1 column 0:␤( ( do { class MyClass { has $.bool; method true { return $.bool } }; my $a = MyClass.new(); $a.bool = 1; if ($a) { "ok "} else { "not ok" }; } ).perl ).sa␤^ HERE␤]
13:44 ruoso kp6: class MyClass { has $.bool; method true { return $.bool } }; module Main { my $a = MyClass.new(); $a.bool = 1; if ($a) { "ok "} else { "not ok" } };
13:44 exp_evalbot r17981: OUTPUT[syntax error at position 0, line 1 column 0:␤( ( do { class MyClass { has $.bool; method true { return $.bool } }; module Main { my $a = MyClass.new(); $a.bool = 1; if ($a) { "ok "} else { "not ok" } }; } ).perl ).sa␤^ HERE␤]
13:45 ruoso hrm
13:45 ruoso kp6: class MyClass { has $.bool; method true { return $.bool } }; module Main { my $a := MyClass.new(); $a.bool = 1; if ($a) { "ok "} else { "not ok" } };
13:45 exp_evalbot r17981: OUTPUT[syntax error at position 0, line 1 column 0:␤( ( do { class MyClass { has $.bool; method true { return $.bool } }; module Main { my $a := MyClass.new(); $a.bool = 1; if ($a) { "ok "} else { "not ok" } }; } ).perl ).sa␤^ HERE␤]
13:45 ruoso kp6: class MyClass { has $.bool; method true { return $.bool } }; module Main { my $a := MyClass.new(); $a.bool = 0; if ($a) { say "ok "} else { say "not ok" } };
13:46 exp_evalbot r17981: OUTPUT[not ok␤]
13:46 ruoso kp6: class MyClass { has $.bool; method true { return $.bool } }; module Main { my $a := MyClass.new(); $a.bool = 1; if ($a) { say "ok "} else { say "not ok" } };
13:46 exp_evalbot r17981: OUTPUT[ok ␤]
13:46 ruoso hmmm
13:51 fglock ruoso: i think .bool should just be renamed to .true
13:54 ruoso fglock, the problem is that the context is not propagated
13:55 ruoso kp6: class MyClass { has $.bool; method true { return $.bool } }; module Main { my $a := MyClass.new(); $a.bool = MyClass.new(); $a.bool.bool = 0; if ($a) { say "ok "} else { say "not ok" } };
13:55 exp_evalbot r17981: OUTPUT[syntax error at position 73, line 1 column 73:␤class MyClass { has $.bool; method true { return $.bool } }; module Main { my $a := MyClass.new(); $a.bool = MyClass.new(); $a.bool.bool = 0; if ($a) { say "ok "} else { say "not ok" } }␤
13:55 exp_evalbot ..                      ^ HERE␤DISPATCH: calling APPLY on invali...]
13:55 ruoso kp6: class MyClass { has $.bool; method true { return $.bool } }; module Main { my $a := MyClass.new(); $a.bool = MyClass.new(); ($a.bool).bool = 0; if ($a) { say "ok "} else { say "not ok" } };
13:55 exp_evalbot r17981: OUTPUT[no method 'p5landish' in Class 'MyClass'␤]
14:00 pugs_svnbot r17982 | ruoso++ | [kp6] problem with !before solved. It was returning a MATCH object to the bool value...
14:00 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17982
14:00 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17982 - Pugs - Trac
14:06 xinming joined #perl6
14:09 pugs_svnbot r17983 | fglock++ | [kp6-lisp] GLOBAL loads ok
14:09 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17983
14:09 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17983 - Pugs - Trac
14:18 pugs_svnbot r17984 | fglock++ | [kp6-lisp] export method names ???
14:18 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17984
14:18 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17984 - Pugs - Trac
14:21 f0rth joined #perl6
14:23 fglock hmm - Lisp (or me) is confusing the namespaces: "The class #<STANDARD-CLASS KP6-STR> has no slot named KP6-GLOBAL::VALUE"
14:23 fglock the accessor is getting a namespace...
14:24 amnesiac joined #perl6
14:26 avar rest assured that we're screwing things up:)
14:26 avar packages are apperently a reader-type thing not an eval thingy, see the pdf I gave you
14:27 Aankhen`` fglock: Where is the namespace in that?
14:28 Aankhen`` fglock: KP6-GLOBAL::VALUE is this symbol read in the KP6-GLOBAL package: 'value
14:28 allbery_b @remember avar rest assured that we're screwing things up:)
14:28 lambdabot Done.
14:28 * ruoso wonders if it wouldn't be a better idea to implement the namespace management above lisp, instead of using it...
14:28 avar true
14:29 avar well, maybe not. I don't know how all this stuff works. Maybe it's needed for classes..
14:29 cmarcelo joined #perl6
14:29 fglock no, classes are anonymous things
14:29 pugs_svnbot r17985 | fglock++ | [kp6-lisp] a "hello" program for debugging
14:29 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17985
14:29 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17985 - Pugs - Trac
14:30 Aankhen`` You can implement a lot of Perl 6 by simply using Lisp features, but I do think it might be a better idea to implement namespaces separately.
14:30 Aankhen`` The Lisp package model is quite different from the Perl 6 package model.
14:30 ruoso Aankhen``, and that's a path already made in mp6
14:30 moritz_ are lisp lists lazy?
14:30 ruoso which proved non-viable for a more complete implementation
14:30 fglock Aankhen``: using a hash?
14:30 avar moritz_: no
14:31 avar But yes, lisp packages are purely a reader-level thing for your convenience. You don't really need that when doing emitting
14:31 avar We probably want to use it in the compiler runtime itself though..
14:32 ruoso avar, the compiler runtime must be the normal runtime
14:32 ruoso remember about "eval"
14:33 kyrbe joined #perl6
14:33 pugs_svnbot r17986 | Aankhen++ | * moved (DEFPACKAGE :KP6-GLOBAL ...) into package.lisp.
14:33 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17986
14:33 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17986 - Pugs - Trac
14:34 fglock i committed http://svn.pugscode.org/pugs/v6/v6-KindaPerl6/examples/hello.lisp for debugging the runtime; the compiler can be fixed when it works
14:34 kyrbe left #perl6
14:34 Aankhen`` fglock: Yeah, using hashes.
14:35 Aankhen`` fglock: Might I prevail upon you to use lowercase symbols? :-)
14:36 avar and a sane indenting style?:)
14:36 Aankhen`` Heh.
14:37 Aankhen`` All I want is lowercase symbols.
14:37 Aankhen`` Proper indentation only comes through a decent editor.
14:37 moritz_ .oO(lisptidy?)
14:38 Aankhen`` LOL.
14:38 pmurias joined #perl6
14:38 avar lisptidy is just (read) and (print) in your implementation
14:38 pmurias ?eval '...'
14:38 fglock Aankhen``: sure
14:39 pmurias pugs: ...
14:39 lambdabot pmurias: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
14:39 exp_evalbot OUTPUT[*** Cannot use this control structure outside a 'routine' structure␤    at /tmp/ZiKWD7CxGj line 1, column 1 - line 2, column 1␤]
14:39 Aankhen`` fglock: One question, probably due to my lack of understanding of kp6. Since you're mangling the names for Lisp, is it necessary to use a name like kp6-Code_say instead of kp6-code-say?
14:39 avar Aankhen``: no, either way works
14:39 avar does _ screw things up?
14:39 avar the names aren't being mangled .. yet
14:39 Aankhen`` avar: No, it's just aesthetic. :-)
14:40 Aankhen`` Eh, anything that goes from foo to bar-foo_baz is mangling as far as I'm concerned.
14:40 Aankhen`` I guess my terminology is incorrect.
14:40 avar they'll be mangled more:)
14:40 Aankhen`` Like how?
14:40 fglock not fully mangling yet, it doesn't do lowercase/uppercase yet
14:41 Aankhen`` I see.
14:41 avar sh-3.1$ perl -wle 'print "(defun kp6-", join q[-], map { ord } split //, shift' 'infix:<~>'
14:41 avar (defun kp6-105-110-102-105-120-58-60-126-62
14:41 avar something like that
14:41 Aankhen`` Oh.
14:42 ruoso fglock, wouldn't it be a good idea to implement namespaces and pads in upper level, since there's anoter backend being developed?
14:42 moritz_ I hope nobody tries to read that code ;)
14:42 fglock ruoso: makes sense
14:43 avar moritz_: there'll be a comment giving the real name:)
14:43 Aankhen`` moritz_: LOL.
14:43 avar but yeah, don't expect emitted code to be readable
14:43 avar ruoso: definetely
14:43 Aankhen`` Is this correct?  `grammar` ISA `class` ISA `module` ISA `package`
14:44 ruoso Aankhen``, I don't think so
14:44 ruoso classes can be outside packages
14:44 ruoso like anon-classes
14:44 Aankhen`` But aren't they anonymous packages then?
14:44 ruoso no... the would be inside someone's else package
14:45 avar packages are a different thing from classes alltogether
14:45 Aankhen`` Ah.
14:45 fglock ruoso: this will be a big change, expect some problems...
14:45 ruoso :)
14:45 fglock ruoso: maybe i should work on it in a branch
14:45 ruoso nah...
14:45 ruoso better break everythih
14:45 ruoso so more people try to fix it
14:45 ruoso ;)
14:46 avar ruoso++
14:50 pmurias avar: there is no point in mangling \w
14:52 ruoso I think there's a exponential graphic of performance from faster to slower: mp6 -> kp6-mp6 -> kp6-kp6... where kp6-kp6 is in the very low end of the curve
14:52 ruoso it takes years to parse say "Hello!"
14:53 ruoso user    0m5.588s
14:53 ruoso time echo -n 'say "Hello!"' | perl -Ilib-kp6-kp6-p5 kp6-kp6.pl
14:53 ruoso gah
14:54 moritz_ so kp6-kp6 _can_ parse 'say "Hello"'?
14:54 ruoso moritz_, almost
14:54 ruoso it's failing with no method 'p5landish' in Class 'Match'
14:54 ruoso but already at the end of the match
14:54 pmurias that's not good
14:54 ruoso which means some token is setting the bool of its parent match with the match itself
14:55 ruoso instead of a literal value
14:55 ruoso (the ones which implement p5landish)
14:55 ruoso that's because kp6 doesn't propagate the context
14:55 ruoso kp6: class MyClass { has $.bool; method true { return $.bool } }; module Main { my $a := MyClass.new(); $a.bool = MyClass.new(); ($a.bool).bool = 0; if ($a) { say "ok "} else { say "not ok" } };
14:55 exp_evalbot r17986: OUTPUT[no method 'p5landish' in Class 'MyClass'␤]
14:55 ruoso pmurias, this is the code to reproduce it
14:56 pmurias kp6: class MyClass { has $.bool; method true { return $.bool } }; module Main { my $a := MyClass.new(); $a.bool = MyClass.new(); ($a.bool).bool = 0; if ($a) { say "ok "} else { say "not ok" } };kp6: class MyClass { has $.bool; method true { return $.bool } }; module Main { my $a := MyClass.new(); $a.bool = MyClass.new(); ($a.bool).bool = 0; if ($a) { say "ok "} else { say "not ok" } };
14:56 exp_evalbot r17986: OUTPUT[syntax error at position 192, line 1 column 192:␤class MyClass { has $.bool; method true { return $.bool } }; module Main { my $a := MyClass.new(); $a.bool = MyClass.new(); ($a.bool).bool = 0; if ($a) { say "ok "} else { say "not ok" } };kp6: class MyClass { has $.bool; method true {
14:56 exp_evalbot ..return $.bool } }; module Main { my $a := MyClass.new(); $a.bo...]
14:56 pmurias argh
14:57 pmurias ruoso: i see
14:57 pugs_svnbot r17987 | Aankhen++ | * added KP6-VALUE accessor to all classes that had a VALUE slot.
14:57 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17987
14:57 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17987 - Pugs - Trac
14:58 Aankhen`` Should all those classes be inheriting from some sort of base type?
14:58 ruoso they do
14:58 ruoso but p5landish only makes sense to classes that *can* be mapped to p5 values
14:58 ruoso like, int, bool, str
14:59 ruoso like: int, bool, str
14:59 Aankhen`` Er, I'm talking about the CL backend.
14:59 ruoso ah
14:59 ruoso ok
14:59 Aankhen`` D'oh, bad commit message.
14:59 Aankhen`` Is "backend" even the right word?
15:00 pmurias fglock used [kp6-lisp] in his commit messages
15:00 pmurias backend is the right word if you mean the lisp backend
15:00 Aankhen`` Yeh.
15:00 Aankhen`` I've been using kp6-cl, guess I'll switch to kp6-lisp.
15:01 fglock Aankhen``: re base class, i think CLOS takes care of that
15:01 Aankhen`` fglock: Whatcha mean?
15:01 ruoso are you planning to use CLOS as-is and not implement a MOP on top of it?
15:01 fglock the base class is a lisp class, right?
15:02 fglock ruoso: yes, at least for the prototype impl
15:02 Aankhen`` fglock: Not following you. Which base class?
15:02 Aankhen`` We have a bunch of classes, kp6-int, kp6-str, etc.
15:02 Aankhen`` They don't share any superclass.
15:02 fglock Aankhen``: kp6-object
15:02 ruoso every kp6-lisp object would be a lisp object
15:02 Aankhen`` Okay, so that ought to be added to the list of ancestors.
15:02 ixolit joined #perl6
15:02 pugs_svnbot r17988 | ruoso++ | [kp6] 'no method' confess instead of dies... \n[kp6] kp6-token-debug shows a letter hint for the level, and detects closure exits...
15:02 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17988
15:03 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17988 - Pugs - Trac
15:03 Aankhen`` Which is what I was asking about. :-)
15:03 ruoso but I still think that's not a nice path to follow...
15:03 ixolit left #perl6
15:03 ruoso you'll probably not be able to implement all p6 semantics directly on CLOS
15:03 Aankhen`` ruoso: Such as?
15:03 fglock ruoso: it's still an experiment
15:04 Aankhen`` ruoso: Hmm, actually, you're right.
15:04 ruoso Aankhen``, I don't know CLOS enough... but it's just a feeling..
15:04 pmurias ruoso: are you still looking for the token which sets .bool to Match?
15:04 ruoso yep... and I don't have any clue
15:05 pmurias i'll try
15:05 ruoso I changed the die to confess when the method is not found
15:05 Aankhen`` fglock: There's a comment in Str.lisp saying "TODO: subclass Value". Is Value == kp6-object?
15:05 ruoso pmurias, and there's a call to "join" in the stack trace
15:06 avar http://u.nix.is/cl-class.png
15:06 * avar experiments
15:06 fglock Aankhen``: it's  Object -> Value -> Str/Int/Num/Code, and Object -> Container -> Scalar/Hash/Array
15:07 Aankhen`` fglock: Ah.
15:07 pmurias ruoso: adding debuging statements in the code generated in Visitor/Token.pm might be a good idea
15:07 ruoso there are some already
15:08 ruoso try running with the KP6_TOKEN_DEBUGGER env var set to 1
15:08 pmurias seen it
15:08 buubot pmurias: Sorry, I haven't seen it
15:08 pmurias ruoso: i mean adding check if bool was just set to Match
15:08 pmurias and printing the rule ast/code if it was
15:09 ruoso pmurias, following the stack trace
15:09 ruoso it's not in the bool
15:09 ruoso it's in the join impl
15:09 avar Aankhen``: Check out my leet subclassing
15:09 ruoso Array.pm 104
15:09 avar fglock: What's the best reference for the methods those should contain? I'm planning on writing a bunch of lisp objects that do what they do
15:10 avar Which'll be fast and will make the emitter a lot easier later on when FETCH and such can just be method calls
15:10 Aankhen`` avar: Wait, you just added subclasses?
15:11 Aankhen`` I did too. :-P
15:11 fglock avar: not fully specified, but the Perl 5 version has what kp6 needs (Runtime/Perl5/*)
15:11 avar I'm working on different code, it'll be pure-cl for a while
15:11 avar I'm mainly teaching myself lisp by implementing cl-perl6 :)
15:11 Aankhen`` percl6!
15:12 fglock the methods in Runtime/Perl6/* should be reusable, so you shouldn't need lisp versions
15:12 Aankhen`` avar: Did you fix up the class hierarchy?  If so, you should commit it so I don't conflict… :-)
15:12 avar I'm not working on /Lisp/, feel free to commit
15:12 Aankhen`` Oh.
15:12 Aankhen`` Sorry, I misunderstood.
15:13 avar fglock: It'll be in /Lisp/ eventually:)
15:15 pugs_svnbot r17989 | Aankhen++ | [kp6-lisp]
15:15 pugs_svnbot r17989 | Aankhen++ | * added kp6-object, kp6-value, kp6-num and kp6-container classes.
15:15 pugs_svnbot r17989 | Aankhen++ | * set up inheritance hierarchy between classes.
15:15 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17989
15:15 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17989 - Pugs - Trac
15:16 avar Everything.isa(Object) in p6 right?
15:17 ruoso pmurias, found
15:17 moritz_ avar: I don't think that Junction.isa(Object)
15:17 moritz_ but I could be wrong
15:17 ruoso moritz_, everything.isa(Object)
15:18 pugs_svnbot r17990 | ruoso++ | [kp6] return match.result.str in str, instead of just match.result
15:18 pugs_svnbot r17991 | fglock++ | [kp6] KindaPerl6::Visitor::Namespace stub
15:18 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17991
15:18 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17991 - Pugs - Trac
15:18 fglock Junction is a bit special, but not much
15:19 fglock just like containers are a bit different from normal objects
15:20 fglock and Code, and lazy lists, and...
15:21 TimToady ?eval Junction ~~ Object
15:21 pugs_svnbot r17992 | ruoso++ | [kp6] do not call pad declaration in the compiler yet
15:21 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17992
15:21 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17992 - Pugs - Trac
15:22 ruoso WOooooooooooHoooooooooo: Now it's official... ;)  kp6-kp6 can parse: say "Hello!"
15:22 pmurias wow ;)
15:22 fglock ruoso++
15:22 pmurias ruoso++
15:22 ruoso the return is still not the expected
15:22 ruoso but it finishes
15:22 TimToady say ruoso++ for 1..*
15:23 moritz_ ruoso += *
15:23 ruoso echo -n 'say "Hello!"' | ./kp6-token-debug
15:23 buubot ruoso: -n 'say "Hello!"'
15:23 TimToady pugs: Junction ~~ Object
15:23 exp_evalbot OUTPUT[Bool::True␤]
15:23 TimToady pugs: Junction ~~ Any
15:23 exp_evalbot OUTPUT[Bool::False␤]
15:23 moritz_ ok
15:24 TimToady and function parameters default to Any, not Object
15:24 Shillo joined #perl6
15:25 Shillo Hullo, all
15:25 pmurias Shillo: hi
15:25 moritz_ hi Shillo ;)
15:28 avar So everything is anything in perl6?:)
15:28 TimToady junctions aren't anything; they're just objects
15:29 TimToady everything that has been observed is anything, I suppose :)
15:30 TimToady at least in the Copenhagen interpretation
15:30 moritz_ is there an up to date inheritance graph somewhere?
15:34 TimToady hmm, we drew a lot of them several years ago, but I'm not sure any of them is specced officially
15:34 TimToady if pugs had MO we could make it print out its version
15:35 moritz_ ok, then the laziest path is to wait for audreyt's MO-branch ;)
15:36 pugs_svnbot r17993 | fglock++ | [kp6] some progress in namespace-in-perl6
15:36 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17993
15:37 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17993 - Pugs - Trac
15:42 mj41 joined #perl6
15:44 fglock ruoso: echo 'say "hello"; $x::y::xxx' | perl kp6-mp6-perl5.pl --do Global,Namespace --ast | perltidy
15:44 pugs_svnbot r17994 | ruoso++ | [kp6] kp6-kp6 already in the visitors...
15:44 pugs_svnbot r17995 | fglock++ | [kp6] namespace in Perl 6; missing some initialization code
15:44 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17995
15:44 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17995 - Pugs - Trac
15:48 TimToady for 'a'..* X 'a'..'zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz' -> $sub, $super { say "$sub isa $super" if ucfirst $sub ~~ ucfirst $super }
15:48 TimToady that would probably get most of them eventually
15:49 TimToady assuming builtin class are not too long and don't do camel case
15:49 [particle] or underscore
15:50 TimToady well, so far we've managed to avoid both
15:51 [particle] and somehow you've managed to avoid unicode, too :P
15:51 pugs_svnbot r17996 | fglock++ | [kp6-lisp] namespace implemented in Perl 6 land
15:51 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17996
15:51 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17996 - Pugs - Trac
15:52 fglock done :)
15:52 moritz_ fglock: wow, that was fast ;)
15:54 TimToady basically, we reserve all the ugly class names for users  :P
15:58 DarkWolf84 joined #perl6
15:58 pugs_svnbot r17997 | fglock++ | [kp6-lisp] lispish .INDEX, .LOOKUP
15:58 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17997
15:58 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17997 - Pugs - Trac
15:59 barney joined #perl6
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16:03 pugs_svnbot r17998 | fglock++ | [kp6-lisp] more lispy calls
16:03 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17998
16:03 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17998 - Pugs - Trac
16:06 pugs_svnbot r17999 | fglock++ | [kp6-lisp] removed some semicolons
16:06 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17999
16:06 lambdabot Title: Changeset 17999 - Pugs - Trac
16:12 pugs_svnbot r18000 | ruoso++ | [kp6] new test... if without else needs to generate a p6 value, instead of leaking the implicit p5 return
16:12 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/18000
16:12 lambdabot Title: Changeset 18000 - Pugs - Trac
16:14 hoelzro does $SIG{__WARN__} still work in perl 6?
16:15 hoelzro I guess it'd be %SIG{__WARN__}
16:15 moritz_ or %*SIG{__WARN__}
16:16 moritz_ just grep the synopsis for SIG
16:16 hoelzro I don't understand the whole deal with @* vs @, %* vs %, etc
16:16 hoelzro where can I read up on twigils??
16:16 moritz_ S02 I think
16:16 hoelzro k, thanks
16:16 moritz_ $* are just global vars
16:17 moritz_ and $? are vars that are known at compile time
16:17 hoelzro I see
16:17 hoelzro what's taking the place of @_, again?
16:18 hoelzro I thought it was @*..., but it can't be global
16:18 moritz_ and $^ are things that are auto declared (like sort { $^a <=> $^b } )
16:18 moritz_ no, it's still @_ iirc
16:18 hoelzro really?
16:18 moritz_ but you can declare sub signatures
16:18 hoelzro right
16:18 moritz_ so you rarely ever need it
16:18 hoelzro sub foo ($a, $b, @*args) { ... }
16:19 moritz_ pugs: sub fac(Int $a) { [*] 1...$a }; say fac(5)
16:19 exp_evalbot OUTPUT[*** ␤    Unexpected "$a"␤    expecting operator, ":", ",", term postfix or "}"␤    at /tmp/EI4lKjaZo1 line 1, column 27␤]
16:19 moritz_ pugs: sub fac(Int $a) { [*] 1..$a }; say fac(5)
16:19 exp_evalbot OUTPUT[120␤]
16:19 weinig joined #perl6
16:28 rindolf joined #perl6
16:34 moritz_ I'm off for vacation (and buying a new laptop :/), see you all in about two weeks
16:34 hoelzro take it easy
16:34 moritz_ if someting goes wrong with exp_evalbot, contact bloonix++
16:47 TimToady hoelzro> sub foo ($a, $b, @*args) { ... }
16:48 TimToady you want *@args there, which is different from @*args
16:48 hoelzro yeah, I took a look at that
16:48 TimToady the former is a slurpy argument, while the latter is global
16:48 hoelzro good thing I'm not writing Perl 6 for Pugs =P
16:49 TimToady anyway, welcome!
16:49 hoelzro thanks!
16:49 hoelzro I'm trying to get my first commit done before I go to class
16:50 REPLeffect joined #perl6
16:51 ferreira joined #perl6
16:51 ferreira The reactions to micro-articles have begun. See the comments at http://www.oreillynet.com/onlamp/blog/2007/09/yap6_operator_stitching.html
16:52 lambdabot Title: YAP6 Operator: Stitching - O&#039;Reilly ONLamp Blog, http://tinyurl.com/2dcsta
16:57 f0rth joined #perl6
17:02 avar my $x = ~foo() is string context on foo() right?
17:02 avar pugs: sub foo { 5 } ~foo()
17:03 exp_evalbot OUTPUT["5"␤]
17:04 hoelzro does anyone online have experience with hacking the parser?
17:05 ferreira pugs: class Foo { sub prefix:<~> { 'a Foo' } }; ~(Foo.new)
17:05 exp_evalbot OUTPUT["<obj:Foo>"␤]
17:05 ferreira What is wrong? The output should not be 'a Foo' ?
17:06 avar pugs: class Foo { method prefix:<~> { 'a Foo' } }; ~(Foo.new)
17:06 exp_evalbot OUTPUT["<obj:Foo>"␤]
17:06 avar maybe it's not supported
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17:08 TimToady hoelzro: I presume you mean the pugs parser.  I've tweaked it upon occasion, but whenever I try to do anything substantial in Haskell I get into an argument with the compiler and lose.
17:08 hoelzro ok
17:09 hoelzro I was wondering if anyone knew how to do optional arguments
17:09 TimToady if you see gaal online, he's a much better Haskeller
17:09 hoelzro for the yada* operators
17:09 polettix joined #perl6
17:09 hoelzro I know Haskell, but my experience with Parsec is...well, I started this morning
17:09 TimToady it would be a list operator
17:10 TimToady so it'd work like print or warn
17:10 hoelzro yes
17:10 hoelzro actually, EXACTLY like warn
17:10 hoelzro as in, all I'm doing is calling warn =P
17:10 TimToady so I'd look at how warn is parsed
17:11 hoelzro I tried, but I couldn't find it anywhere
17:11 TimToady hmm
17:12 avar CL-USER> (elems *my-hash*)
17:12 avar 0
17:12 avar ;
17:12 avar CL-USER> (STORE *my-hash* "key" "value")
17:12 avar "value"
17:12 avar CL-USER> (elems *my-hash*)
17:12 avar 1
17:12 avar C
17:12 avar whee:)
17:12 hoelzro just curious, what is Lisp used for in Pugs?
17:12 TimToady Parser/Literal.hs: doYada "???" = "&warn"
17:13 hoelzro TimToady: I'm looking at that right now
17:13 hoelzro but that's the yada operator part
17:13 avar hoelzro: We're working on another compiler that uses it as an emitter backend
17:13 hoelzro sweet
17:14 avar It's currently not as complete as the .hs stuff but easier to get into, and IMO has more of a future:)
17:14 TimToady then there's the parrot perl6 compiler, which targets parrot,  And my STD parser, which targets nothing (yet)
17:15 TimToady well, it's really targetting pugs at the moment
17:15 avar kp6 differs from the others in that it compiles itself which makes it a "real" compiler IMNSHO :)
17:17 TimToady anyway, it's a healthy competition, I think
17:17 hoelzro competition can be good for projects
17:17 TimToady as long as we keep talking to each other
17:17 hoelzro yeah
17:17 rhizo joined #perl6
17:18 avar totally:)
17:21 TimToady hoelzro: btw, I don't think Perl 6 will necessarily have a %SIG, or if it does, it likely won't contain __WARN__
17:21 TimToady if warn needs a global hook, it'd be more like $*WARN_HOOK or some such
17:21 hoelzro oh that, yeah, I figured out a way around it
17:21 * avar amazingly remembers what the diference between (let and (let*
17:21 avar ..is
17:22 TimToady avar: just finish all your sentences with ]
17:25 [particle] TimToady: mostly it's coopetition between projects, except when we all battle with the language designer :)
17:27 TimToady ah, well, he could use a good whack upside the head occasionally.
17:32 fglock moritz_: ping
17:35 davidfetter oi, fglock :)
17:35 fglock davidfetter: hey!
17:35 davidfetter what's new & good? :)
17:35 TimToady about an hour ago moritz said he's off for vacation for two weeks
17:35 fglock davidfetter: all is new and good :)
17:36 davidfetter my spies tell me you're in .pt
17:36 * fglock looks around
17:37 REPLeffect joined #perl6
17:38 fglock davidfetter: it's a nice weather here - they had a cool winter back in .br
17:39 davidfetter so i heard
17:39 davidfetter what brought you to .pt ?
17:39 [particle] $$
17:39 davidfetter h€h
17:41 ruoso joined #perl6
17:41 fglock a bunch of brazilian *-pm group leaders were hired by an open source company in .pt - it's a nice environment
17:42 davidfetter neat. can you talk about what you're doing there?
17:42 fglock and € > R$ too
17:42 davidfetter heh
17:43 fglock we are working on customized versions of several open source products, and contributing back to the projects
17:43 fglock Perl 6 is one of them :)
17:43 davidfetter w00t!
17:43 fglock i've used v6.pm on a migration project
17:44 davidfetter sweet
17:44 avar http://sial.org/pbot/27597 # luev slime:)
17:44 pugs_svnbot r18001 | avar++ |  r63624@t:  avar | 2007-09-20 17:41:59 +0000
17:44 pugs_svnbot r18001 | avar++ |  add a value member to the container for storage
17:44 pugs_svnbot r18002 | avar++ |  r63625@t:  avar | 2007-09-20 17:42:55 +0000
17:44 pugs_svnbot r18002 | avar++ |  Implemented new/store/lookup/pairs. May still need to return kp6 objects and could use some cleanup of the code and API
17:44 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/18002
17:44 lambdabot Title: Paste #27597 from Someone at 208.78.101.240
17:44 lambdabot Title: Changeset 18002 - Pugs - Trac
17:45 avar evaluation aborded there is when I switched to the other buffer to write the function, before I loaded it into the lisp image:)
17:45 fglock davidfetter: i'm working with several people i've only met in the net
17:45 davidfetter that's common :)
17:46 avar fglock: I'm going to be making more libary runite hacks, but first $exercise :)
17:46 fglock i mean, working in the same place
17:46 IllvilJa joined #perl6
17:47 fglock avar++
17:47 avar is LOOKUP fglockish for FETCH ?
17:47 avar :)
17:48 fglock lookup is the read-key-from-hash operation
17:48 ferreira I am looking for instructions on keeping in sync with Pugs and compiling it, working from feather. Anyone knows where I can find instructions for that?
17:48 fglock fetch is read-from-container
17:48 fglock a fetch on a hash returns the whole hash
17:50 fglock ferreira: i think it's this: http://feather.perl6.nl/svk.html
17:50 lambdabot Title: SVK on Feather
17:50 ferreira Fglock: thanks
17:50 fglock then follow the instructions in pugs
17:50 fglock np
17:51 fglock avar: does the namespace elimination transform makes sense?
17:52 * ruoso changing EmitPerl5 to return Bit(false) when an if doesn't have an else
17:52 ruoso /return/return in the else/
17:55 fglock ferreira: how about adding links to previous/next article
17:57 ferreira at ONLamp? I am having trouble with MovableType that seems to randomly change URLs in some updates. I am thinking of alternatives.
17:57 daxim joined #perl6
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18:01 pugs_svnbot r18003 | ruoso++ | [kp6] if without else emits an else { Bit(False) } for implicit returns
18:01 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/18003
18:01 lambdabot Title: Changeset 18003 - Pugs - Trac
18:01 ferreira I don't understand these instructions on SVK. I started a svk repository for saving the micro-article series. So I cannot just copy ~audreyt/config to ~/.svk. I would need to understand what mirrors this is setting.
18:01 Psyche^ joined #perl6
18:02 fglock ferreira: you can add the articles under docs/articles/
18:03 fglock then svk add / svk ci
18:03 ferreira ok
18:05 pugs_svnbot r18004 | ruoso++ | [kp6] prefix:<%>. Still does nothing... kp6 does not implement contexts
18:05 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/18004
18:05 lambdabot Title: Changeset 18004 - Pugs - Trac
18:05 pl4fks left #perl6
18:05 fglock avar: are we going to use kp6-* for method names?
18:07 REPLeffect joined #perl6
18:07 fglock are there some guidelines on lisp indentation best practices?
18:11 pugs_svnbot r18005 | fglock++ | [kp6-lisp] Hash.pairs, Hash.elems return Perl 6 objects
18:11 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/18005
18:11 lambdabot Title: Changeset 18005 - Pugs - Trac
18:11 SubStack joined #perl6
18:11 fglock ruoso: prefix:<%> just calls .hash
18:12 fglock in kp6
18:12 ruoso fglock, I've just changed it
18:20 pugs_svnbot r18006 | fglock++ | [kp6-lisp] added Undef, Value, Container to Runtime.lisp
18:20 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/18006
18:20 lambdabot Title: Changeset 18006 - Pugs - Trac
18:23 ferreira pugs build fails with error in src/Pugs/Internals/Monads.hs What am I doing wrong? pugs build is broken?
18:24 qmole joined #perl6
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18:29 fglock ferreira: sorry, i don't know
18:29 pugs_svnbot r18007 | fglock++ | [kp6-lisp] &GLOBAL::say is stored in the right place
18:29 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/18007
18:29 lambdabot Title: Changeset 18007 - Pugs - Trac
18:30 fglock home &
18:34 TJCRI joined #perl6
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18:43 gnuvince Is audreyt still active on the Pugs project?  I notice that she hasn't committed anything to pugs since July.  Some of her CPAN modules are still being maintained however.
18:43 ferreira I think she's busy at work
18:46 gnuvince Where does she work?
18:52 allbery_b she was out for a long time with hepatitis, then there were complications to her recovery
18:52 gnuvince I didn't know about that.  I knew she got hep A, but not that her recovery didn't go well.
18:52 pugs_svnbot r18008 | ruoso++ | [kp6] some value checking... kp6-kp6 does emit some code... but not the right code
18:52 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/18008
18:52 lambdabot Title: Changeset 18008 - Pugs - Trac
18:53 ruoso pmurias, run: echo 'say "Hello!"' | perl -Ilib-kp6-kp6-p5 kp6-kp6.pl
18:53 ruoso kp6-kp6.pl already pass through all the visitors
18:53 ruoso :)
18:53 ruoso it emits the p5 skelethon code
18:54 ruoso the ast is not as it should yet
18:54 ruoso we need a p6 dumper
18:54 ruoso does anyone wants to implement KP6Data::Dumper?
18:54 ruoso ;)
18:54 TimToady KP6Data::YAML maybe...
18:56 ruoso I was thinking in the quasiquotes too
18:56 ruoso maybe KP6AST::Dumper
18:56 gnuvince left #perl6
19:00 ruoso kp6-kp6 almost works ;)
19:00 pugs_svnbot r18009 | ruoso++ | [kp6] dumps the ast as a warning in kp6-kp6 before emitting... The ast now is highly incomplete
19:00 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/18009
19:00 lambdabot Title: Changeset 18009 - Pugs - Trac
19:05 ruoso A long way to go now... Must understand why the AST is almost empty...
19:05 ruoso but...
19:05 ruoso home &
19:06 ahmadz joined #perl6
19:06 ahmadz hi all
19:06 pmurias ahmadz: hi al
19:06 pmurias l
19:06 pmurias ahmadz: hi ;)
19:06 ahmadz pmurias: ;-)
19:07 pmurias ruoso: i works here :) but takes 0m31s
19:07 ruoso heh
19:08 ruoso pmurias, I'm going out now...
19:08 ruoso do you want to search why is the ast getting out empty?
19:09 ruoso now really home &
19:12 ferreira Why I got "A checksum mismatch occurred: Base checksum mismatch on '/mirror/pugs/src/perl6/Perl-6.0.0-STD.pm" when doing "svk pull". I am at feather.
19:15 TimToady that file isn't there anymore.  it was renamed to STD.pm
19:16 TimToady seems like kind of a lousy error message...
19:17 TimToady clkao: see above
19:17 jisom joined #perl6
19:18 clkao hello
19:18 clkao aaah what version of svk is on feather
19:19 TimToady ENOKLOO
19:19 ferreira This is svk, version v2.0.2 (using Subversion bindings 1.4.4)
19:19 clkao hmmm
19:19 clkao this is during pull... /me ponders
19:21 weinig joined #perl6
19:28 ludan joined #perl6
19:45 dduncan joined #perl6
19:51 avar @tell fglock re namespace elimination transform, haven't looked at it yet, will peek mayybeees
19:51 lambdabot Consider it noted.
19:52 avar @tell fglock I'm still n00bing around with CLOS so I don't know the best names for methods, but I suppose a prefix makes sense, maybe
19:52 lambdabot Consider it noted.
19:52 avar @tell fglock You should indent lisp like emacs does it:)
19:52 lambdabot Consider it noted.
19:52 hoelzro who was the resident Haskell expert again?
19:53 hoelzro began with a 'g', if I remember right
19:53 ferreira gaal ?
19:53 hoelzro that looks right
19:57 hoelzro alright, yada-yada-yadas are working!
19:59 TimToady hoelzro++
19:59 TimToady but weren't you supposed to go to class?
20:00 hoelzro I just got back
20:00 hoelzro I had inspiration while listening to my professor
20:00 TimToady sorry, kneejerk reaction from spawning too many teens...
20:00 hoelzro that's fine =P
20:01 hoelzro are the yadas supposed to accept lists, like this:  ... ("list", "of", "things")?
20:02 TimToady yes, and the args are implicitly joined with ''
20:03 hoelzro really?  I didn't know that
20:03 hoelzro I supposed I'll actually have to LEARN Perl 6 after I get more coding done
20:04 TimToady that part's actually the same as Perl 5... :)
20:04 hoelzro really?!
20:04 TimToady try "warn 'foo','bar'"
20:04 hoelzro I clearly haven't been writing enough Perl...
20:05 TimToady well, it's not all that useful of a feature, but warn and die were modeled on print
20:06 hoelzro by the way, what's the purpose of fail if we have die?
20:06 TimToady die always throws an exception
20:07 TimToady fail only does that if the caller uses "use fatal"
20:07 hoelzro ah
20:07 TimToady otherwise it returns an "unthrown exception"
20:07 pmurias The argument
20:07 pmurias is optional,
20:07 TimToady which eventutally throws an exception if you try to use it
20:07 pmurias TimToady: it might suggest that !!! takes one argument
20:07 TimToady also known as "interesting values of undef"
20:08 hoelzro I think you can do die w/o an arg
20:08 TJCRI joined #perl6
20:08 pmurias yes
20:08 TimToady but instead of "Something's wrong" or "Died" the default message for the yadas can be more specific
20:09 TimToady "Attempt to execute stub" or some such
20:09 hoelzro oh?  I just have it calling die/fail/warn
20:09 hoelzro would you like me to change it?
20:09 TimToady sure
20:11 hoelzro would you like me to change it to anything in particular, or should I be creative? =D
20:11 TimToady maybe "Unimplemented stub called"
20:12 hoelzro ok
20:13 hoelzro what version of pugs does the evaluator in this channel use?  a nightly build?
20:13 TimToady probably more frequent than that
20:14 [particle] it rebuilds when it senses a disturbance in the repo
20:14 hoelzro dang
20:14 hoelzro impressive
20:14 hoelzro Jedi build system?
20:14 [particle] use The::Repo;
20:14 TimToady pugs: say $*PUGS_VERSION
20:14 exp_evalbot OUTPUT[Perl6 User's Golfing System, version 6.2.13, October 17, 2006 (r17871)␤]
20:15 avar Updated annually?:)
20:15 wolverian heh
20:15 [particle] hasn't been released in a while... sohuld probably have a -devel on the version or something
20:16 TimToady -extended_version or _directors_cut maybe
20:16 [particle] and the last couple hundred revs have been for kp6, not pugs
20:16 [particle] deluxe_widescreen_edition
20:17 ferreira the revision number is from svn.pugscode.org? That (the revision number) differs if you use other svk mirrors, right?
20:35 ferreira left #perl6
20:43 diakopter more like -unrated_edition
20:46 [particle] diakopter: svnbot throttling doesn't seem to be working. have a look at some code i wrote up: http://nopaste.snit.ch:8001/11202
20:47 [particle] ...it may need some fixing up, i have no good way to test
20:49 diakopter [particle]: so it always sleeps 0.51 ?
20:49 hoelzro is &die implemented as a multi sub?
20:50 hoelzro I'm getting complaints from !!! about "no multi variant found for &die"
20:51 [particle] diakopter: yep
20:51 [particle] or 1s if the platform doesn't support sub-second resolution
20:52 * davidfetter wonders which platforms don't offer sub-second resolution
20:52 diakopter [particle]: someone on #parrot demanded a maximum of 0.2msgs/s
20:53 [particle] it was 2msg/s
20:53 diakopter someone said 5 seconds between messages.
20:53 [particle] that's wrong.
20:53 [particle] 5 minutes between runs
20:53 [particle] 2 messages/second
20:55 hoelzro what are the various forms of die?
20:55 diakopter [particle]: oh yeah. I see where you said  diakopter: kismet says 2 messages/second would be a good value
20:56 [particle] yep, that's it
20:58 [particle] hoelzro: see http://perlcabal.org/syn/S03.html#List_prefix_precedence Exception generators
20:58 lambdabot Title: S03
20:58 hoelzro thank you
20:58 hoelzro I'm seldom sure which synopses to look at...
20:59 [particle] that's why you should have a local repo to search :)
20:59 [particle] http://svn.perl.org/perl6/doc/trunk
20:59 lambdabot Title: Revision 14463: /doc/trunk
20:59 snearch joined #perl6
21:01 diakopter [particle]: there.  let's see if that works.
21:04 pugs_svnbot r18010 | hoelzro++ | Added myself to the AUTHORS list, fixed a discrepancy in docs/SEEALSO, and
21:04 pugs_svnbot r18010 | hoelzro++ | implemented the yada operators (..., !!!, ???).  Tests are soon to follow...
21:04 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/18010
21:04 lambdabot Title: Changeset 18010 - Pugs - Trac
21:05 [particle] diakopter++ # i'll test after lunch & errands
21:06 avar is a true/false value of the Bit class or of Bool directly?
21:06 * avar wondering what the hell fglock has been doing:)
21:11 Juerd avar: Should be Bool, because bits are 0/1, and bools are false/true.
21:11 Juerd That's the only distinction AFAIK. Of course, the obvious 1-on-1 mapping applies.
21:12 * Juerd does not see any use for having different classes
21:12 avar different stringify and such?
21:24 pugs_svnbot r18011 | avar++ |  r63636@t:  avar | 2007-09-20 21:14:25 +0000
21:24 pugs_svnbot r18011 | avar++ |  XXX note
21:24 pugs_svnbot r18012 | avar++ |  r63637@t:  avar | 2007-09-20 21:15:55 +0000
21:24 pugs_svnbot r18012 | avar++ |  Add the kp6-value introspective accessor to all containers, this gets the CL hash table, string, array etc
21:24 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/18012
21:24 lambdabot Title: Changeset 18012 - Pugs - Trac
21:27 hoelzro is there POD for Test.pm?
21:27 pugs_svnbot r18013 | avar++ |  r63638@t:  avar | 2007-09-20 21:19:25 +0000
21:27 pugs_svnbot r18013 | avar++ |  Undef isa Value and is nil by default
21:27 pugs_svnbot r18014 | avar++ |  r63639@t:  avar | 2007-09-20 21:20:08 +0000
21:27 pugs_svnbot r18014 | avar++ |  eek, forgot C-x C-s
21:27 pugs_svnbot r18015 | avar++ |  r63640@t:  avar | 2007-09-20 21:20:33 +0000
21:27 pugs_svnbot r18015 | avar++ |  make the (str) method use the (kp6-value) introspector
21:27 pugs_svnbot r18016 | avar++ |  r63641@t:  avar | 2007-09-20 21:21:19 +0000
21:27 pugs_svnbot r18016 | avar++ |  camel case class names, not that it matters to lisp
21:27 pugs_svnbot r18017 | avar++ |  r63642@t:  avar | 2007-09-20 21:21:36 +0000
21:27 pugs_svnbot r18017 | avar++ |  delicious indenting
21:27 pugs_svnbot r18018 | avar++ | test dir
21:27 pugs_svnbot r18019 | avar++ | test dir nuked
21:27 pugs_svnbot r18020 | avar++ |  r63643@t:  avar | 2007-09-20 21:22:21 +0000
21:27 pugs_svnbot r18020 | avar++ |  camel case class names, not that it matters to lisp
21:27 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/18020
21:27 lambdabot Title: Changeset 18020 - Pugs - Trac
21:29 avar urgh!
21:29 pugs_svnbot r18021 | avar++ |  r63644@t:  avar | 2007-09-20 21:22:32 +0000
21:29 pugs_svnbot r18021 | avar++ |  camel case class names, not that it matters to lisp
21:29 pugs_svnbot r18022 | avar++ |  r63645@t:  avar | 2007-09-20 21:22:52 +0000
21:29 pugs_svnbot r18022 | avar++ |  M-x indent-region
21:29 pugs_svnbot r18023 | avar++ |  r63646@t:  avar | 2007-09-20 21:24:21 +0000
21:29 pugs_svnbot r18023 | avar++ |  Drop kp6-Hash-new, just use (make-instance) which now initializies the hash thanks to :initarg, Implemented DELETE and CLEAR and make pairs return key-value pairs, not value-key pairs (oops), more cleanup
21:29 pugs_svnbot r18024 | avar++ | test dir un-nuked
21:29 pugs_svnbot r18025 | avar++ | test dir nuked
21:29 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/18025
21:29 lambdabot Title: Changeset 18025 - Pugs - Trac
21:29 hoelzro nevermind...I found it =P
21:29 avar how do I make svn/svk remember my bloddy password so it doesn't ask for it every commit?
21:30 avar svk doesn't have --password for push like svn to make it less annoying
21:30 clkao apparently there's something silly in the codepath. try to do something with svn that requires password once and have it remembered
21:30 avar yeah, I've been commiting test dirs with svn, keeps asking
21:31 avar iirc it cached it when i tried it some months ago
21:31 avar I did svn co http://svn.pugscode.org/pugs; cd pugs/misc/pX/avar; svn mkdir test; svn ci test
21:31 lambdabot Title: Revision 18025: /
21:33 avar pugs.switch_to(Git)
21:33 avar version control is always greener on the other side
21:33 hoelzro does old-school eval { ... } if($@) { ... } still work?  I'm trying to write tests for .../!!!/???
21:35 xinming joined #perl6
21:37 hoelzro nevermind, I think I found it
21:42 hoelzro are there hooks for die, warn, and fail?
21:43 avar currently you're the dude that understands this haskell nonesense best here:)
21:43 hoelzro yay!
21:43 hoelzro I was talking about Perl 6 though;  I'm writing a test for the yadas
21:44 avar GLOBAL::die() and so on I think
21:45 avar ..maybe...
21:56 Schwern joined #perl6
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22:07 hoelzro pugs: say $*PUGS_VERSION
22:07 exp_evalbot OUTPUT[Perl6 User's Golfing System, version 6.2.13, October 17, 2006 (r17871)␤]
22:09 avar You've implemented this stuff?
22:09 pugs_svnbot r18026 | avar++ |  r63661@t:  avar | 2007-09-20 21:43:51 +0000
22:09 pugs_svnbot r18026 | avar++ |  Be more quiet when compiling
22:09 pugs_svnbot r18027 | avar++ |  r63662@t:  avar | 2007-09-20 22:08:33 +0000
22:09 pugs_svnbot r18027 | avar++ |  GLOBAL needs to be in the kp6-cl package too
22:09 pugs_svnbot r18028 | avar++ |  r63663@t:  avar | 2007-09-20 22:09:18 +0000
22:09 pugs_svnbot r18028 | avar++ |  Use the kp6-Hash interface instead of manually (make-hash-table); syntax fixes
22:09 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/18028
22:09 lambdabot Title: Changeset 18028 - Pugs - Trac
22:10 REPLeffect_ joined #perl6
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22:11 hoelzro which Perl 6 implementation is furthest along?
22:15 avar pugs.hs
22:15 hoelzro I figured
22:15 hoelzro it doesn't seem like a lot of people are working on it
22:17 avar no, like I said earlier
22:17 avar :)
22:18 avar kp6 is the most active atm
22:18 hoelzro audrey's off doing other things?
22:18 avar yup
22:18 hoelzro =(
22:18 hoelzro if I had a better idea of what needed to be done, I'd keep going
22:19 hoelzro and my Lisp isn't nearly as good as my Haskell
22:19 avar maybe you'd like to hack kp6?:)
22:19 hoelzro I could learn
22:19 avar Oh the lisp backend is just a current project, the most complete one and the one that's actually working is the perl5 emitter
22:20 avar You could also write a haskell emitter, a lot of the current stuff from pugs.hs could be reused
22:20 avar or do @anything :)
22:21 hoelzro I think for now, I'm going to read over the specs better
22:22 pugs_svnbot r18029 | avar++ |  r63669@t:  avar | 2007-09-20 22:17:18 +0000
22:22 pugs_svnbot r18029 | avar++ |  kp6-CLEAR does not need a key argument
22:22 pugs_svnbot r18030 | avar++ |  r63670@t:  avar | 2007-09-20 22:18:35 +0000
22:22 pugs_svnbot r18030 | avar++ |  Load Int too
22:22 pugs_svnbot r18031 | avar++ |  r63671@t:  avar | 2007-09-20 22:20:52 +0000
22:22 pugs_svnbot r18031 | avar++ |  Export the Hash.lisp methods, this is stupid
22:22 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/18031
22:22 lambdabot Title: Changeset 18031 - Pugs - Trac
22:28 pugs_svnbot r18032 | avar++ |  r63675@t:  avar | 2007-09-20 22:27:14 +0000
22:28 pugs_svnbot r18032 | avar++ |  (foo) not ( foo ); (kp6-APPLY not (APPLY
22:28 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/18032
22:28 lambdabot Title: Changeset 18032 - Pugs - Trac
22:30 pugs_svnbot r18033 | avar++ |  r63676@t:  avar | 2007-09-20 22:27:48 +0000
22:30 pugs_svnbot r18033 | avar++ |  emitter changes from the last few commits
22:30 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/18033
22:30 lambdabot Title: Changeset 18033 - Pugs - Trac
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23:14 dduncan whats up with pugscode.org?  I can't connect to it now
23:15 dduncan one moment ...
23:15 dduncan oh, maybe that thing on log.perl.org explains it
23:15 dduncan or indirectly
23:16 dduncan since that's 2 days old, and pugscode was working an hour ago
23:16 dduncan so my question stands
23:16 ft joined #perl6
23:17 TimToady I didn't have any trouble connecting to www.pugscode.org
23:18 TimToady not from work anyway, but it doesn't ping from my home machine
23:23 TimToady it is not a good sign that all the folks from feather dropped off at the same time...
23:25 Tene mysterious questions about problems with a server, followed by everyone on that server falling offline... sounds like the start of a horror film.
23:25 TimToady but Juerd said earlier today that: Big network maintenance tomorrow 0:00 - 4:00 CET
23:25 TimToady feather will be offline a few times.
23:26 TimToady (online intermittently...)
23:26 TimToady and that seems like about now
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