Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2007-09-25

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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08:33 pugs_svnbot r18158 | avar++ |  r65522@t:  avar | 2007-09-25 08:30:53 +0000
08:33 pugs_svnbot r18158 | avar++ |  hacky script to compile tests for lisp with sbcl, run this then prove -r t-lisp-exe
08:33 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/18158
08:33 lambdabot Title: Changeset 18158 - Pugs - Trac
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09:19 lichtkind ?eval 3 div 4
09:20 lichtkind bot is dead
09:20 lichtkind long live the bot :)
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09:40 avar Aankhen``, fglock: svk pull, perl compile_tests_kp6_mp6-lisp.pl; prove -r t-lisp-exe
09:40 fglock avar: looking
09:43 avar it creates stand-alone executables of all the test files with sbcl
09:43 fglock installing sbcl
09:48 pugs_svnbot r18159 | avar++ |  r65524@t:  avar | 2007-09-25 09:45:36 +0000
09:48 pugs_svnbot r18159 | avar++ |  Put the main body in (defun Main) and run it by default, this allows for creation of stand-alone-executables with sbcl
09:48 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/18159
09:48 lambdabot Title: Changeset 18159 - Pugs - Trac
09:51 pugs_svnbot r18160 | fglock++ | [kp6] Scope.pm cleanup
09:51 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/18160
09:51 lambdabot Title: Changeset 18160 - Pugs - Trac
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10:07 avar fglock: the ones that aren't valid lisp are just skipped atm
10:08 avar maybe it would be better to add a stup fail test...
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11:07 pugs_svnbot r18161 | fglock++ | [kp6] Visitor::Scope stub
11:07 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/18161
11:07 lambdabot Title: Changeset 18161 - Pugs - Trac
11:09 * avar cheers fglock
11:10 avar write more stuff in p6 so I don't have to work so hard:)
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11:19 Aankhen`` avar: It's asking me to confirm whether I want to remove 10,000 write-protected files, one at a time… all in t-lisp-exe/*/.svn
11:19 avar SAY YES
11:19 avar the compile_test script is a dirty evil hack
11:19 Aankhen`` I am, but why is it asking so much?
11:20 Aankhen`` Also, SBCL is giving me tons of "unhandled condition in --disable-debbuger-mode, quitting".
11:20 avar because it was written by a monkey low on banana
11:20 BinGOs because you forgot the "shut it bitch and just do it" switch
11:20 avar what version of sbcl?
11:20 avar $ sbcl --version
11:20 avar SBCL 1.0.9
11:20 Aankhen`` ,69$ sbcl --version
11:20 Aankhen`` ,69SBCL 1.0.9
11:21 avar I'm making standalone executables for all the tests because I don't know how to tell sbcl to shut the fuck up
11:21 Aankhen`` From CVS, if that matters.
11:23 Aankhen`` --noinform and --noprint are supposed to do that.
11:23 Aankhen`` But I guess they don't work for you either, eh?
11:27 avar http://sial.org/pbot/27716 # faaaast :)
11:27 lambdabot Title: Paste #27716 from Someone at 208.78.101.240
11:28 Aankhen`` But not particularly correct?
11:28 avar who needs correctness when you have awesomely fast failures
11:28 Aankhen`` Hehe.
11:28 Aankhen`` That's CLISP?
11:29 avar no I compiled the tests to stand-alone executables using sbcl
11:29 avar they're executing at around or above the speed perl(1) would run them at
11:30 Aankhen`` Ah.
11:30 avar 03-equals.t is 0.023 secs on my machine
11:31 avar most of it load time, 30mb executable:)
11:31 fglock avar: would you bootstrap, please
11:31 avar bootstrap what?
11:31 fglock the compiler
11:31 fglock :P
11:31 avar uh, after lunch?:)
11:32 fglock i think i can wait a few minutes
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11:32 Aankhen`` How do you bootstrap the compiler? :-S
11:32 avar Make it support enough perl 6 to compile its own files
11:33 Aankhen`` Oh.
11:33 pmurias avar: you mean the speed perl(1) would run them if they were in p5?
11:33 avar then the generated CL code will be a p6 compiler..
11:35 Aankhen`` I'm a little unclear on how much is the responsibility of the emitter with regards to variables.
11:35 Aankhen`` What is Visitor::Scope et all about?
11:35 pmurias you shouldn't use 01-sanity-modified
11:35 Aankhen`` s/is/are/
11:35 avar pmurias: well, p5 is 0.006 secs:)
11:35 fglock Aankhen``: use hashes to implement static/dynamic scopes
11:36 avar Aankhen``: fglock has been making more stuff into perl6 which means we have to implement less to get more working
11:36 avar just need more primitives to run more complex stuff
11:36 Aankhen`` I see.
11:36 avar Array.uniq is in p6 and only requires looks, return, hashes
11:36 Aankhen`` Is there an example of hooking up whatever's been written in Perl 6 already?
11:37 Aankhen`` And, sorry for being dense, but what is static scope?
11:37 fglock lexical variables
11:37 fglock my $things
11:37 Aankhen`` Oh, okay.
11:37 Aankhen`` That's what Visitor::Scope takes care of?
11:37 pmurias yes
11:37 fglock yes (but not yet)
11:37 Aankhen`` Ah.
11:37 Aankhen`` So in the mean time, I should do what I can to get them working in CL?
11:39 avar Aankhen``: does compile test work for you?
11:39 Aankhen`` avar: Not yet; I'm trying again.
11:39 fglock native CL will be faster
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11:47 pmurias fglock: what's the state of --perl5rx?
11:49 fglock it used to run an example/ script
11:49 fglock with backtracking
11:50 fglock examples/token-test.pl
11:51 pmurias it dosn't now
11:53 fglock pmurias: see instructions (updated)
11:53 pugs_svnbot r18162 | fglock++ | [kp6] fixed examples/token-test.pl instructions
11:53 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/18162
11:53 lambdabot Title: Changeset 18162 - Pugs - Trac
11:58 pmurias fglock: thanks
11:58 pmurias had my -I's in the wrong order
11:59 fglock pmurias: i think it would be reasonable to bootstrap with perl5rx
12:01 pmurias either with --perl5rx or with CL
12:02 pmurias the bootstraped grammar takes ages to compile the simplest things
12:02 avar it'll be a lot faster once we bootstrap CL:)
12:02 avar But is it bootstrapped now hoshit?:)
12:02 avar tried profiling it?
12:03 pmurias avar: hoshit?
12:03 avar "oh shit"
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12:04 fglock kp6-mp6 compiles itself to kp6-kp6, but kp6-kp6 doesn't compile itself yet
12:04 fglock almost there
12:05 avar it'll be awesome when it does:)
12:05 avar I promise to release it on CPAN then:)
12:10 pmurias i've got do my ajax chores now
12:10 pmurias i'll looked into --perl5rx later today
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12:12 riffraff hi
12:25 pmurias riffraff: hi
12:28 fglock lunch &
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14:17 b_jonas pity <%foo> syntax is used up in rules
14:18 PerlJam why?
14:18 b_jonas it would be nice if they meant scanf-like conversion formats,
14:18 b_jonas like <%d> reading an integer and capturing it as an integer not a string
14:18 b_jonas that doesn't make much difference for <%d> but for like <%x> it does
14:19 b_jonas of course we can still define such things with some other rule syntax
14:19 PerlJam I don't understand the benefit
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14:20 pmurias b_jonas: you can define your own <scanf('format')> rule
14:21 b_jonas this way, instead of first matching something like /(<xdigit>+)/ and then reading it with hex($1), you'd match and read a hex number in one step
14:21 b_jonas pmurias: yes, you can define it of course
14:22 pmurias <hex> and <oct> would do most of what scanf adds
14:22 b_jonas yep, I'd probably define ones like that
14:22 b_jonas <dec> and <hex> and <oct> and <float>
14:22 b_jonas and stuff like that
14:22 pmurias isn't dec \d+?
14:23 b_jonas pmurias: (\d+) captures a string
14:23 b_jonas I want to capture a number istead
14:23 pmurias the is not much difference
14:23 b_jonas with decimal numbers, it doesn't make a big difference because they autoconvert
14:23 pmurias *there
14:23 b_jonas but with like hexadecimal
14:23 b_jonas or a user type
14:23 b_jonas it does make a difference
14:23 pmurias yes
14:24 b_jonas I might introduce read syntax like that for a user type I define
14:24 b_jonas even if scanf doesn't classically support that type
14:25 pmurias b_jonas: do you particulary like the scanf syntax?
14:25 b_jonas no
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14:25 b_jonas but I like a way to read data
14:26 b_jonas not neccessary with scanf syntax
14:26 ahmadz hi
14:26 pmurias ahmadz: hi
14:26 b_jonas but in some way that I can combine it with matching
14:27 b_jonas so I can just read a pair of numbers as token /( <num> , <num> )/
14:27 pmurias b_jonas: token /(\d+),(\d+)/ does it
14:27 b_jonas (or something like that)
14:28 b_jonas pmurias: yes, for positive decimal integers, but what if I want to read a pair of whatever datatypes I have defined
14:28 b_jonas like /\( <foo> , <foo> \)/
14:29 b_jonas it's probably easy to define a rule foo like that
14:29 b_jonas so it not only matches a string rep of a Foo but reads it as a Foo as well
14:30 pmurias token foo { foo {make Foo.new()} }
14:30 b_jonas yep
14:30 b_jonas that's it
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14:52 rhr b_jonas: there are rules in STD you could use for that, e.g. <hexint>, <dec_number>, etc. (see line 1521 and following)
14:52 lambdabot rhr: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
14:53 rhr @messages'
14:53 lambdabot Maybe you meant: messages messages?
14:53 rhr @messages
14:53 lambdabot ferreira said 7d 1h 29m 26s ago: Thanks. Fixed.
14:53 rhr silly lambdabot, you already told me that
14:59 ahmadz is there a way to speed up the 'make' in v6/v6-KindaPerl6?
15:00 avar work on the CL backend:)
15:00 ahmadz avar: ;-)
15:01 ahmadz avar: im playing with EmitParrot.pm atm
15:03 avar I thought you wanted to make it faster?:)
15:04 ahmadz atm the make is too slow on my P4 2Ghz Linux VM
15:04 ahmadz even though i have 1GB...
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15:06 avar try running devel::dprof on it
15:06 b_jonas paralel make it?
15:06 b_jonas dunno if it's allowed
15:07 avar it's allowed
15:08 ahmadz dont think '-j' will help since im only editing one .pm
15:08 ahmadz i will try profiler on it... maybe i can find something ;-)
15:09 b_jonas well, you can probably see if make runs more than one slow commands
15:10 ahmadz try -j2 same thing; since 100% CPU i dont think i will gain much on a 2Ghz
15:12 b_jonas dunno
15:12 b_jonas you could try breaking that file down to smaller files
15:12 * ahmadz is inspecting makefile
15:13 b_jonas or you can try compiling with less optimization
15:13 b_jonas (with gcc for example, -O is much faster than -O2)
15:14 pmurias b_jonas: kp6 dosn't do any optimization
15:15 pmurias it's only the parsing which takes significant time
15:15 b_jonas well, then breaking it down to smaller files is all I can think of
15:17 ahmadz real: 1m54s, user:1m35s sys:0m7s for a single .pm make on kp6
15:17 avar The parser is going to be replaced soon-ish anyway
15:17 pmurias avar: with?
15:17 avar STD.pm
15:17 pmurias it won't help much
15:17 pmurias well it might
15:18 pmurias but it's the parse engine which is slow not the grammar
15:18 ahmadz hmmm, alias perltidy='cat' during dev? ;-)
15:18 pmurias ahmadz: not compiling the kp6-kp6 version would be a speedup
15:19 avar http://sial.org/pbot/27721
15:19 lambdabot Title: Paste #27721 from Someone at 208.78.101.240
15:19 avar you could add perl Makefile.PL --without-kp6-kp6
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15:20 pmurias avar better a make target
15:20 ahmadz avar: yeah that would be cool
15:21 avar yeah, target
15:21 avar sub to   { @_ == 1 ? ( $_data{refaddr $_[0]}{to}   ) : ( $_data{refaddr $_[0]}{to}   = $_[1] ) };
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15:27 avar it's probably backtracking like crazy
15:28 pmurias i dosn't backtrack much i think
15:28 pmurias :ratchet is the only choice in mp6
15:33 pmurias the problem is that kp6 is not bootstraped yey
15:33 pmurias *yey
15:33 pmurias *yet ;)
15:34 avar the cause of the speed problem?
15:35 pmurias in order to make kp6 compile faster one would have to work on mp6
15:36 pmurias which is wasted effort in the long run
15:36 pmurias mp6 is semi-frozen, and has (not so) slightly more evil internals
15:46 pmurias the bootstrap is blocking or is bound to block on the speed of kp6-kp6
15:47 avar real    20m41.047s
15:47 avar user    22m13.800s
15:47 avar sys 0m17.080s
15:47 pmurias as rules are even slower in kp6 then in mp6
15:47 pmurias avar: this is the time for?
15:48 avar make forcerecompile; make
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15:57 pugs_svnbot r18163 | fglock++ | [kp6] Visitor::Scope just do something
15:57 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/18163
15:57 lambdabot Title: Changeset 18163 - Pugs - Trac
16:03 avar that didn't work out very well..
16:03 avar tried to s/refaddr /0 + /g and the comp almost crashed:)(
16:03 avar kernel killed the process
16:04 pmurias avar: trying to optimize mp6?
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16:11 avar failing:)
16:12 fglock the refaddr thing is mostly useless, it was there to permit using inside-outs, which were there for perl5ish reasons (inherited from the v6.pm impl)
16:14 avar What are the people that are hacking kp6 working on atm anyway?
16:14 avar me an Aankhen`` are hacking cl...
16:14 avar fglock: You're doing p5->p6 of the runtime, general clenup or aimed at STD?
16:14 fglock i'm working on - hmmm
16:14 fglock all that
16:15 fglock trying to allow more p6-level emulation, in order to make backends easier to implement
16:16 avar yeah that's great
16:16 fglock in order to implement p6-level coro and gather/take
16:16 fglock in order to run desugared STD
16:16 fglock and then STD
16:17 fglock looks like some kind of piramid
16:17 fglock pyramid
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16:18 Tene avar: what's the status of kp6-clisp?
16:19 avar Tene: http://sial.org/pbot/27722
16:19 lambdabot Title: Paste #27722 from Someone at 208.78.101.240
16:19 avar still near the hello world stage
16:19 avar more runtime/emitter stuff needs to be written
16:19 Tene avar: thanks
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16:23 avar But writing a backend is easy-ish mostly
16:26 fglock implementing closures in high level is silly, isn't it?
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16:29 fglock reading about it
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16:38 fglock it probably needs a different p5 runtime
16:38 fglock need
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16:39 fglock needs :)
16:40 fridim hi
16:48 fglock hi
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19:07 pugs_svnbot r18164 | azawawi++ | [kp6] 'make kp6-mp6' added
19:07 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/18164
19:07 lambdabot Title: Changeset 18164 - Pugs - Trac
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19:39 ferreira For those following the series of micro-articles on Perl 6 operators, I have a draft ready for comments and suggestions. This will be published yesterday by 10:30 GMT-0300. It is at http://feather.perl6.nl/~ferreira/perl6-operators/coercion.html or http://feather.perl6.nl/~ferreira/perl6-operators/coercion.pod6
19:39 lambdabot Title: coercion.pod6
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19:41 PerlJam ferreira: s/This can be lead to/This can lead to/
19:42 allbery_b "this will be published yesterday"?
19:42 PerlJam allbery_b: he's traveling backwards while we go forwards in time :)
19:46 ferreira allbery_b: that was an error due to me feeling guilty. It should have been published yesterday. It slipped by and then tomorrow will have to be good enough.
19:50 pmurias what's a good name for a visitor which turns Rules into C code?
19:52 [particle1 Visitor::Rules2C :)
19:52 pmurias could be
19:52 allbery_b .oO { consultant }
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20:34 pugs_svnbot r18165 | azawawi++ | [kp6] 'make kp6-mp6' now actually works ;-)
20:34 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/18165
20:34 lambdabot Title: Changeset 18165 - Pugs - Trac
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20:47 ahmadz pmurias, avar: 'make kp6-mp6' now works and is pretty much faster ;-)
20:58 pmurias ahmadz: nice
21:02 * pmurias is working on compiling rules to c
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21:14 pmurias sleep&
21:25 pugs_svnbot r18166 | azawawi++ | [kp6] 'make kp6-mp6' is now 'make kp6_mp6'
21:25 pugs_svnbot r18166 | azawawi++ |   *   added pod doc for it
21:25 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/18166
21:25 lambdabot Title: Changeset 18166 - Pugs - Trac
21:40 ahmadz @karma
21:40 lambdabot You have a karma of 1
21:40 pugs_svnbot r18167 | azawawi++ | [kp6-parrot] project start... cleaned unused dies
21:40 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/18167
21:40 lambdabot Title: Changeset 18167 - Pugs - Trac
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21:49 pugs_svnbot r18168 | Aankhen++ | * [kp6-lisp] added error handling functions.
21:49 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/18168
21:49 lambdabot Title: Changeset 18168 - Pugs - Trac
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21:59 Aankhen`` Hmm, still not optimal.
22:00 pugs_svnbot r18169 | Aankhen++ | * [kp6-lisp] reworked error handling structure.
22:00 pugs_svnbot r18170 | Aankhen++ | * [kp6-lisp] left out an argument.
22:00 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/18170
22:00 lambdabot Title: Changeset 18170 - Pugs - Trac
22:00 Aankhen`` Oh well, it'll have to do.
22:08 pugs_svnbot r18171 | Aankhen++ | * [kp6-lisp] better KP6-PREFIXED-ERROR-MESSAGE.
22:08 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/18171
22:08 lambdabot Title: Changeset 18171 - Pugs - Trac
22:11 pugs_svnbot r18172 | Aankhen++ | * [kp6-lisp] error functions should take a typespec.
22:11 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/18172
22:11 lambdabot Title: Changeset 18172 - Pugs - Trac
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22:50 pugs_svnbot r18173 | lwall++ | Skeleton of new autolexer (doesn't really do dfa yet, so STD doesn't run)
22:50 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/18173
22:50 lambdabot Title: Changeset 18173 - Pugs - Trac
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