Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2007-09-26

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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02:00 pugs_svnbot r18174 | azawawi++ | [k6-parrot] Lit::Code implemented, new String "Hello world", shows up ;-)
02:00 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/18174
02:00 lambdabot Title: Changeset 18174 - Pugs - Trac
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02:49 tewk Is there a pseudo perl6 rules implementation in perl5?
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02:50 tewk How old is http://search.cpan.org/~dconw​ay/Perl6-Rules-0.03/Rules.pm?
02:50 lambdabot Title: Perl6::Rules - Implements (most of) the Perl 6 regex syntax - search.cpan.org
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03:26 dduncan tewk, I believe there is something newer and more complete ... looking ...
03:27 dduncan tewk, look at http://search.cpan.org/dist/Pugs-Compiler-Rule/
03:28 lambdabot Title: Agent Zhang (章亦春) / Pugs-Compiler-Rule - search.cpan.org
03:28 dduncan that's what you want, afaik ... though it is possible that it is about to be superceeded by something else ... or not, but its quite regularly maintained none the less
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05:24 ahmadz @tell fglock "should EmitParrot.pm emit PIR directly or should it use a Parrot Runtime like lisp/Perl5..?"
05:24 lambdabot Consider it noted.
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05:54 dduncan @tell tewk look at http://search.cpan.org/dist/Pugs-Compiler-Rule/ for Perl 6 rules in Perl 5
05:54 lambdabot Consider it noted.
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09:33 fax ?eval [~] <m oo se>
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09:43 masak #pugs [~] <m oo se>
09:44 masak hm, seems to be no-bots day today...
09:44 fax I tried in pugs :D
09:44 fax Have learned <m oo se>
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09:49 Aankh|Clone ?kp6 "hello"
09:49 lambdabot "hello"
09:49 * Aankh|Clone waves at fax.
09:49 fax ?kp6 reverse "!ih"
09:49 lambdabot reverse "!ih"
09:49 buubot lambdabot: "hi!"
09:50 Aankh|Clone I'm not sure much works on KP6 yet though.
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12:55 pugs_svnbot r18175 | pmurias++ | [kp6] initial rules2c
12:55 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/18175
12:55 lambdabot Title: Changeset 18175 - Pugs - Trac
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13:55 pugs_svnbot r18176 | avar++ |  r65542@t:  avar | 2007-09-26 13:53:13 +0000
13:55 pugs_svnbot r18176 | avar++ |  More operatiors: < > <= >= + - * / length
13:55 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/18176
13:55 lambdabot Title: Changeset 18176 - Pugs - Trac
14:01 avar Aankh|Clone: hi
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14:12 pmurias avar: hi
14:16 avar bye...
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14:36 pmurias avar: had to turn the computer off for testing if our power sockets are properly grounded
14:37 avar pmurias: hi
14:40 pmurias is there a portable equivalent of gcc's ({})
14:40 pmurias ?
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14:42 pmurias it's the c equivalent of do {}
14:42 weinig joined #perl6
14:42 avar pmurias: no
14:43 pmurias avar: thanks
14:43 avar if you're thinking of macros you'll have to write a function
14:44 pmurias avar: i use it for declaring temporary variables for storing the position in alteration
14:45 pmurias Rule::Or in lib/KindaPerl6/Visitor/TokenC.pm
14:47 pmurias declaring a lot of variable at the function start should also work but it's troublesome
14:54 [particle] declare an array
14:56 pmurias a stack should work, but would introduce a performace penalty
14:57 pmurias a performace penalty is to big a word
14:57 pmurias * too big a phrase
14:59 [particle] you can optimize later... just get it working and maintainable
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15:00 avar or you could depend on gcc:)
15:05 pmurias does anyone here not use gcc? ;)
15:06 avar Only traitors
15:06 [particle] me, but i haven't been doing any kp6 dev lately... tried, but make doesn't work on win32 either and i haven't tried to fix it
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15:09 fglock_ [particle]: kp6 works without make
15:10 avar fglock_: No, you need GNU make
15:11 avar ..if you want to develop it anyway
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15:11 fglock_ dependencies--
15:21 Aankh|Clone avar: You rang?
15:23 fglock_ pmurias: how about s/TokenC/EmitTokenC/
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15:29 avar Aankhen``: fleh
15:29 Aankhen`` What do you mean "fleh"?
15:34 * Aankhen`` wants a Mercurial mirror.
15:40 avar isn't that evil pythoon?
15:40 Aankhen`` It's gooooooooood Python.
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15:47 pmurias fglock_: ok
15:47 pmurias TokenC isn't a good name
15:53 pugs_svnbot r18177 | pmurias++ | [kp6] c rules return a match
15:53 pugs_svnbot r18178 | pmurias++ | [kp6] missing files
15:53 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/18178
15:53 lambdabot Title: Changeset 18178 - Pugs - Trac
15:55 avar I think "my" should be called "may"
15:55 avar may $res = 0; reads better
15:56 avar .o O ( oh so this is why it's failing, Aankhen`` sucks )
15:56 avar :)
15:58 pmurias avar: what should "our" be called
15:58 pugs_svnbot r18179 | pmurias++ | [kp6] TokenC -> EmitTokenC
15:58 pugs_svnbot r18180 | pmurias++ | [kp6] - missing file
15:58 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/18180
15:58 lambdabot Title: Changeset 18180 - Pugs - Trac
15:58 pmurias ? ;)
15:59 fglock_ have $it = 1
15:59 avar pmurias: "mah"
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16:07 pugs_svnbot r18181 | avar++ |  r65546@t:  avar | 2007-09-26 16:06:36 +0000
16:07 pugs_svnbot r18181 | avar++ |  Support for stringify and numify
16:07 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/18181
16:07 lambdabot Title: Changeset 18181 - Pugs - Trac
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16:11 fglock_ .oO( stringification and mummification
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16:18 avar Aankhen``: sh-3.1$ echo '0 && say "not ok"' | perl kp6-mp6-perl5.pl --lisp  | sbcl 2>/dev/null  | grep ok
16:18 avar * not ok
16:18 avar sh-3.1$ echo '1 && say "not ok"' | perl kp6-mp6-perl5.pl --lisp  | sbcl 2>/dev/null  | grep ok
16:18 avar * not ok
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16:27 TimToady avar: there is no length function in Perl 6; you probably want chars there instead.
16:28 avar TimToady: There is now!
16:28 avar >:)
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16:34 Aankhen`` avar: I'm busy, stop bothering me!
16:36 TimToady nobody on irc is really busy, by definition
16:37 avar Aankhen``: IMPLEMENT
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16:38 Aankhen`` avar: I've been working on something rather big since yesterday.
16:38 Aankhen`` I think I'll be ready to land it soon.
16:38 Aankhen`` (It's not all that big conceptually, but it took a long time to think it through and implement it, and I'm still not sure I've got it right.)
16:39 avar what?
16:39 PerlJam avar: the magic perl 6 compiler of course!
16:39 Aankhen`` avar: Basically creating a kp6-interpreter class that encapsulates an entire P6 world.
16:40 PerlJam Aankhen``: ala smalltalk?
16:40 Aankhen`` avar: Needless to say, creating the class is easy, implementing the encapsulation is not. :-)
16:40 Aankhen`` PerlJam: I don't have a lot of experience with Smalltalk, so I'm not sure.
16:40 Aankhen`` PerlJam: It's not an image, though, AFAIK.
16:40 avar PerlJam: We are doing that!
16:41 Aankhen`` Heh, I like how I say "I don't have a lot of experience" to indicate that I've never touched Smalltalk.
16:41 avar Job interview reflex?
16:41 Aankhen`` Never had one!
16:41 Aankhen`` Lots of practice in embellishing the truth, though.
16:41 PerlJam That's always a good skill.
16:41 Aankhen`` Yup.
16:41 Aankhen`` I'm an excellent liar.
16:42 Aankhen`` I'd make a great lawyer.
16:42 [particle] now perljam is embellishing...
16:43 Aankhen`` PerlJam: I just realized that actually, we can already save images.
16:43 PerlJam Once, while on a trip to my parent's house in Louisiana with a friend, he asked me about some structure he saw in the swamp.  I didn't know what it was, but I made a quick assessment and came up with what I thought was a plausible explanation, and then I told him as if I knew exactly what I was talking about.
16:43 Aankhen`` Most CL implementations let you save an image.
16:43 Aankhen`` (SBCL being a case in point.)
16:44 Aankhen`` That functionality isn't exposed at present, however.
16:44 Aankhen`` (By KP6-CL, I mean.)
16:46 avar How would it be exposed?
16:46 pugs_svnbot r18182 | avar++ |  r65553@t:  avar | 2007-09-26 16:45:24 +0000
16:46 pugs_svnbot r18182 | avar++ |  Made := work, more tests pass
16:46 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/18182
16:46 lambdabot Title: Changeset 18182 - Pugs - Trac
16:46 avar Well we have a machine code compiler currently based on sbcl's image saveing
16:47 Aankhen`` avar: &save_perl_and_die? <G>
16:49 avar why do you want that?
16:50 avar all the tests that currently fail are due to &&, ||, if and unless not knowing perl truth;/
16:51 avar well, the ones that don't fail to compile..
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16:56 Aankhen`` avar: What'd you do to make := work?
16:56 avar see commit
16:57 avar no idea if that's correct though
16:57 Aankhen`` Ah, I'd tried that too.
16:57 avar and?
16:57 Aankhen`` It only assigns, not binds.
16:57 avar what's the difference?
16:57 avar ah, the VAR() won't get copied?
16:57 Aankhen`` my $x = "abcd"; my $y := $x; $y = "efgh"; # $x is still "abcd"
16:58 pmurias binding is VAR($var) = ...;
16:58 Aankhen`` I thought about it, and my idea was that entries in the variable tables should point to cells rather than kp6-* values.
16:58 Aankhen`` (Completely untested and unimplemented, of course.  It just came up. :-)
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17:00 pmurias Aankhen``: cells == containers?
17:01 Aankhen`` pmurias: Er, possibly.  I'm not sure I have the right terminology.
17:01 Aankhen`` But yeah, that'd make sense.
17:01 Aankhen`` So which wheel did I mentally reinvent this time?
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17:02 pmurias Aankhen``: it's done that way in kp6
17:03 Aankhen`` pmurias: Ah, okay.
17:03 pmurias how should i make the c rules avalible from p6
17:03 pmurias XS?
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17:09 avar You can use the cl-ffi interface:)
17:10 avar but more seriously it isn't (going to be) specced
17:10 fglock_ pmurias: just compile everything to C - examples/kp6-example.c is a quick experiment
17:11 avar well then you'd need a full C emitter
17:12 fglock_ it even looks like lisp: ( fetch_by_key( return_obj, METH_name ) ))( return_obj, "" )
17:13 avar maybe lisp with your crazy coding style:)
17:14 lichtkind it is normal that i dont see any pugsshell at http://run.pugscode.org/
17:14 lambdabot Title: Run Perl 6 Now -- in your browser!
17:14 lichtkind my js is on
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17:18 pmurias fglock_: i haven't considered compiling everything to c, i would rather finish a small thing then start a big one
17:20 avar You could use it with the  perl5 emitter and xs
17:24 Aankhen`` Is there no way to access the compilation unit from an AST node?
17:24 fglock_ or Inline::C
17:25 fglock_ Aankhen``: you mean the root node?
17:25 Aankhen`` fglock_: I guess so, assuming a ::CompUnit is always the root node.
17:26 Aankhen`` I'd like to store some data in the ::CompUnit and access it from nodes within that.
17:26 fglock_ KindaPerl6::Traverse passes a $path argument around, which is an array with the parent nodes
17:26 fglock_ this is untested
17:26 Aankhen`` I'll get that in the implicit @_ of &emit_lisp?
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17:28 fglock_ problem is, emit_lisp() is called everywhere, so you have to pass the arguments yourself
17:28 Aankhen`` Okay.
17:28 Aankhen`` Sounds irritating, but ah well.
17:28 avar * sh-3.1$ echo 'if "0" { say "true" } else { say "false" }' | perl kp6-mp6-perl5.pl --lisp | sbcl 2>/dev/null | egrep "true|\
17:28 avar false"
17:28 avar * false
17:28 avar sh-3.1$ echo 'if "1" eq "0" { say "true" } else { say "false" }' | perl kp6-mp6-perl5.pl --lisp | sbcl 2>/dev/null | egrep "\
17:28 avar true|false"
17:28 avar * true
17:28 avar (defmethod kp6-Bit ((self kp6-Str))
17:28 avar (not (= (perl->cl (kp6-Num self)) 0)))
17:28 avar s
17:29 avar (defmethod kp6-Bit ((self kp6-Bit)) doesn't work however
17:29 Aankhen`` Oh, ::CompUnit's signature just mentions a $arg_secure
17:29 Aankhen`` avar: What the heck are you doing?
17:29 fglock_ EmitLisp takes control out from Traverse.pm and does everything itself
17:29 avar I'm trying to fucking8 implement a concept of truthness
17:29 Aankhen`` avar: See Num.lisp to see how to do it.
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17:30 Aankhen`` fglock_: Oh.
17:30 avar (defmethod initialize-instance :after ((obj kp6-Num) &key)
17:30 avar (when (= (kp6-value obj) 0) (setf (kp6-bit obj) nil)))
17:30 avar (defmethod (setf kp6-value) :after (val (obj kp6-Num))
17:30 avar (when (= val 0) (setf (kp6-bit obj) nil)))
17:30 avar what the hell does that do?
17:30 Aankhen`` fglock_: Any particular reason for that?
17:30 avar umm
17:30 Aankhen`` avar: Basically keeps the BIT slot up-to-date, which is supposed to be used when checking for truth.
17:31 Aankhen`` avar: The first one runs after the creation of a new KP6-NUM object, and sets the BIT slot to NIL (i.e. false) when the value of the number is 0.
17:31 fglock_ Aankhen``: EmitLisp is not really an AST transform, it just reuses the AST-plugin API for convenience
17:31 avar bit is 1 or 0?
17:31 Aankhen`` avar: The second one runs whenever the value is set, and does the same thing.
17:31 Aankhen`` avar: T or NIL.
17:31 Aankhen`` fglock_: Ah.
17:33 avar riht
17:33 avar right
17:33 avar s/bit/bool/ maybe
17:33 Aankhen`` avar: The spec says every object has a .bit attribute that's used to check for truth.
17:34 Aankhen`` fglock_: I just realized that since it calls emit_lisp manually anyway, I might as well pass the data I need there.
17:34 fglock_ yes
17:36 Aankhen`` Now, what should I do to generate a suitably random name in Perl…
17:36 fglock_ Aankhen``: more complex things, like node reordering, can be implemented as AST transforms in a separate visitor
17:37 Aankhen`` Kewl.
17:38 Aankhen`` avar: Any ideas?
17:38 Aankhen`` avar: Need random name!
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17:38 fglock_ Aankhen``: you can use a class variable (for sequential numbers), or add a subroutine to the Main namespace in the Perl5 runtime
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17:39 Aankhen`` Hmm, I'll try the former.
17:39 fglock_ see Runtime/Perl5/MP6Runtime.pm:267
17:43 fglock_ home &
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18:07 pugs_svnbot r18183 | avar++ |  r65555@t:  avar | 2007-09-26 18:07:09 +0000
18:07 pugs_svnbot r18183 | avar++ |  make (kp6-bit on bits work, this makes if work
18:07 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/18183
18:07 lambdabot Title: Changeset 18183 - Pugs - Trac
18:07 avar Aankhen``: I have no idea why && and || fail
18:08 avar * sh-3.1$ echo '1 == 2 && say "shit"' | perl kp6-mp6-perl5.pl --lisp | sbcl 2>/dev/null |grep shit
18:08 avar * shit
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18:10 avar MAIN> (kp6-bit (make-instance 'kp6-Bit :value 0))
18:10 avar NIL
18:10 avar MAIN> (kp6-bit (make-instance 'kp6-Bit :value 1))
18:10 avar 1
18:10 avar MAIN> (kp6-bit (make-instance 'kp6-Bit :value 2))
18:10 avar 2
18:10 avar M
18:11 [particle] kp6 -Ocurses
18:12 avar (define-kp6-function "infix:<&&>" (&rest operands)
18:12 avar (if (null operands)
18:12 avar (cl->perl 'true)
18:12 avar (if (kp6-bit (first operands))
18:12 avar (call-kp6-function "infix:<&&>" (cdr operands))
18:12 avar (cl->perl 'false))))
18:13 avar KP6-CL> (kp6-bit (cl->perl 'false))
18:13 avar NIL
18:13 avar KP6-CL> (kp6-bit (cl->perl 'true))
18:13 avar 1
18:13 avar K
18:13 avar should be working, but isn't
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19:38 Aankhen`` avar: I fail to understand why you ignored coerce.lisp and wrote all that stuff instead. :-S
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20:04 pugs_svnbot r18184 | lwall++ | [STD] closer to running again with new autolexer
20:04 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/18184
20:04 lambdabot Title: Changeset 18184 - Pugs - Trac
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20:10 pmurias how should emitters which emit multiple files be handled?
20:13 Aankhen`` Sorry in advance for the gigantic commit.
20:13 Aankhen`` All this stuff got mixed up inextricably.
20:13 Aankhen`` avar: Not to worry, though, I took into account your commits too.
20:14 Aankhen`` Now I have to fix stuff.
20:14 pugs_svnbot r18185 | Aankhen++ | [kp6-lisp]
20:14 pugs_svnbot r18185 | Aankhen++ | * implemented self-contained interpreters; this required a lot of reworking and affected many files.  some things currently broken.
20:14 pugs_svnbot r18185 | Aankhen++ | * removed KP6-STR and KP6-NUM methods in favour of KP6-COERCE.
20:14 pugs_svnbot r18185 | Aankhen++ | * added util.lisp containing WITH-UNIQUE-NAMES and DEFINED.
20:14 pugs_svnbot r18185 | Aankhen++ | * added some error handling for package functions.
20:14 pugs_svnbot r18185 | Aankhen++ | * removed unnecessary INITIALIZE-INSTANCE :AFTER on KP6-BIT class.
20:14 pugs_svnbot r18185 | Aankhen++ | * stick Runtime.lisp code within a WITH-COMPILATION-UNIT.
20:14 pugs_svnbot r18185 | Aankhen++ | * don't always call COMPILE-FILE on Runtime.lisp
20:15 pugs_svnbot r18185 | Aankhen++ | * fixed report functions for KP6-WARNING and KP6-ERROR condition classes.
20:15 pugs_svnbot r18185 | Aankhen++ | * changed error functions to take a condition designator as the first argument.
20:15 pugs_svnbot r18185 | Aankhen++ | * CL->PERL should populate KP6-BITs with T and NIL.
20:15 pugs_svnbot r18185 | Aankhen++ | * added some error handling in functions.lisp
20:15 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/18185
20:15 lambdabot Title: Changeset 18185 - Pugs - Trac
20:20 Aankhen`` Hmm, for some reason, EmitParrot.pm seems to be regenerated for me each time I run `make`.
20:20 pugs_svnbot r18186 | Aankhen++ | * [kp6-lisp] assigning to variables works again.
20:20 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/18186
20:20 lambdabot Title: Changeset 18186 - Pugs - Trac
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20:36 pmurias Aankhen``: why do you store the bool value in an attribiute, rather then determine it based on the content
20:36 pmurias ?
20:38 pugs_svnbot r18187 | Aankhen++ | * [kp6-lisp] commented out autovivification of globals for now.
20:38 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/18187
20:38 lambdabot Title: Changeset 18187 - Pugs - Trac
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20:41 Aankhen`` pmurias: Just going by S02
20:41 Aankhen`` "Unlike in Perl 5, objects are no longer always considered true. It depends on the state of their .bit property. Classes get to decide which of their values are true and which are false. Individual objects can override the class definition"
20:41 pmurias seen it
20:41 buubot pmurias: Sorry, I haven't seen it
20:41 pmurias buubot--
20:41 buubot pmurias:  is the module loaded?
20:42 pmurias Aankhen``: seen that paragraph
20:42 pmurias i don't think it referes to an actual $.bit slot
20:42 Aankhen`` Oh.
20:42 pmurias return 0 but True;
20:43 pmurias is used instead of an assignment
20:43 pmurias i could be wrong ;)
20:43 TimToady it should probably be the .true method instead of the .bit method
20:43 Aankhen`` Okay.
20:44 * Aankhen`` will get to it after figuring out why "Argument X is not a number: NIL".
20:45 Aankhen`` Ohh, durr.
20:47 pugs_svnbot r18188 | Aankhen++ | * [kp6-lisp] removed a few unneeded functions in GLOBAL.lisp
20:47 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/18188
20:47 lambdabot Title: Changeset 18188 - Pugs - Trac
20:47 Aankhen`` TimToady: So it's a proper method rather than a slot?
20:47 pugs_svnbot r18189 | Aankhen++ | * [kp6-lisp] added coercion for KP6-BIT.
20:47 pugs_svnbot r18190 | Aankhen++ | * [kp6-lisp] fixed PERL->DISPLAY for KP6-BITs.
20:47 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/18190
20:47 lambdabot Title: Changeset 18190 - Pugs - Trac
20:54 pugs_svnbot r18191 | Aankhen++ | * [kp6-lisp] replaced KP6-BIT with KP6-TRUE method.
20:54 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/18191
20:54 lambdabot Title: Changeset 18191 - Pugs - Trac
21:11 Aankhen`` avar: Found the problem.
21:11 Aankhen`` No lazy evaluation (at least at present). :-|
21:11 Aankhen`` It returns false, but both arguments are evaluated first anyway.
21:13 Aankhen`` I'm going to call it a night as far as the KP6 hackery goes.
21:13 pugs_svnbot r18192 | Aankhen++ | * [kp6-lisp] s/kp6-bit/kp6-true/g in GLOBAL.lisp
21:13 pugs_svnbot r18193 | Aankhen++ | * [kp6-lisp] pass -f rather than -v to rm in compile_tests_kp6_mp6-lisp.pl
21:13 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/18193
21:13 lambdabot Title: Changeset 18193 - Pugs - Trac
21:18 TimToady Aankhen``: there's no requirement that .true be implemented as an attribute.  We're just basically saying that all types do the Bool interface
21:18 Aankhen`` Okay.
21:19 Eidolos w 22
21:19 Aankhen`` 23 is better.
21:19 Eidolos no way! :)
21:20 Aankhen`` 24?
21:20 [particle] 21... blackjack!
21:21 Aankhen`` Bah.
21:21 Aankhen`` Cheater.
22:12 Limbic_Region joined #perl6
22:31 Khisanth joined #perl6
22:56 avar how do I blog at pugs.blogs.com ?
23:03 * avar finally gives up on svk
23:06 avar arg what the crap
23:08 pugs_svnbot r18194 | avar++ |  r65568@t:  avar | 2007-09-26 23:06:48 +0000
23:08 pugs_svnbot r18194 | avar++ |  tabs to spaces
23:08 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/18194
23:08 lambdabot Title: Changeset 18194 - Pugs - Trac
23:08 baest joined #perl6
23:16 * avar sees that aankhen isn't running tests
23:23 pugs_svnbot r18195 | avar++ | Define a Main function for the program (again), this is required for the sbcl image dumper to work
23:23 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/18195
23:23 lambdabot Title: Changeset 18195 - Pugs - Trac

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