Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2007-10-26

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

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01:11 meppl good night
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06:46 moritz_ good localtime() everybody
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07:36 spinclad g'localtime(), @all
07:36 masak g'localtime(), spinclad
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07:45 spinclad good morrow to you, good sir!
07:46 * moritz_ is too dumb for kp6 debugging
07:48 spinclad and to you, good moritz_, good morrow!
07:51 * spinclad is too lagged by a thrashing firefox to do much tonight
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08:25 moritz_ are coroutines (with yield instead of return) and gather/take isomorphic?
08:37 moritz_ assuming lazy gather/take, that is
08:39 spinclad hmm.  i suspect coroutines will be more general, as not constrained to a producer/consumer assymetry, but i'm not sure Perl 6 coroutines, in particular, have all the power i'm thinking of.
08:43 spinclad certainly every yield point has a signature of what is yielded there, both on the calling side (yield ...) and the receiving side (... := coroutine(...));
08:45 moritz_ ah right, yield can probably propagate a different context than take
08:45 spinclad and as i have understood coroutines, a signature back when the receiving side asks it to go on.
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08:47 spinclad the simplest case keeps these signatures fixed for the life of the coroutining pair; but with careful architecture this needn't be the case, and perhaps usefully so.
08:48 spinclad iow, you could have sets A and B of yield points that have different interfaces; but they would have to stay in sync on both sides.
08:51 spinclad i wouldn't be surprised if this could be better expressed another way, though.
08:52 spinclad say, as a persistent object with two different methods.
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08:55 spinclad well, back to thrashing, and bed.  g'night, @all
08:55 * spinclad &
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09:20 TimToady I don't think they're isomorphic.  coroutines are limited to returning from the current "sub", while a take can return from any gather in the outer dynamic scope.
09:22 TimToady though, as with loop controls, it should probably prefer a visible outer lexical scope over a hidden dynamic scope, even if the dynamic scope is inside the lexically scoped gather
09:24 TimToady that is, it should probably search for a gather by the same policy as S04:807
09:25 TimToady (and thereabouts)
09:25 moritz_ TimToady: thanks
09:26 TimToady and could even potentially have labelled gathers, and FOO.take()
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09:31 meppl good morning
09:32 moritz_ I'm off, see you on sunday ;)
09:32 TimToady later
09:33 meppl good bye mortiz
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10:35 pmurias fglock: you can now only write emitter for kp6 in mp6
10:36 pmurias *emitters
10:36 fglock pmurias: yes
10:36 fglock because the AST is an mp6 object
10:37 TimToady note, I just changed the precedence of x, xx and ~
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10:39 TimToady also, to get my fixed pugs compile perl5_init had to refer to &environ rather than &env.  this might break the build elsewhere...
10:39 fglock TimToady: is it ok to refactor the regex AST to avoid left-recursion?
10:39 TimToady where does it do left-recursion?
10:40 fglock I mean, to allow left recursion, without infinite loop
10:42 TimToady why would you need it?
10:42 TimToady everything calls a lower rule, except things that have some other token on the left
10:43 pmurias you want to turn token left {<left> <something>} into token {<something>+}
10:43 pmurias ?
10:43 fglock yes, for example
10:44 pmurias isn't the later clearer
10:44 pmurias ?
10:47 fglock hmm - I need it a while ago, it would make some grammar simpler to write - I'll try to find it
10:47 fglock needed
10:48 TimToady it tends to completely screw up longest-token matching
10:50 pmurias fglock: fixing $foo.bar.baz?
10:52 fglock pmurias: that would be one case, but it is should probably be fixed with some precedence algorithm, for flexibility
10:53 fglock reading http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left_recursion
10:53 lambdabot Title: Left recursion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
10:55 TimToady re-zzz &
10:56 pmurias fglock: left recursion is hard to understand with a NFA mindset
11:01 fglock hmm - mindsets make certain things harder to understand
11:07 pmurias fglock: and somethings easy, luckily you aren't limited to one
11:07 fglock reading on NFA too
11:12 * pmurias got confused is the perl regex engine an NFA?
11:18 fglock I read that Perl 5.10 optimizes snippets to [DN]FA when possible
11:20 pmurias i think it is (without the nonregular features) with backtracking being transitons withought taking any input
11:21 avar fglock: it doesn't
11:23 pmurias would a perl build script be better than a Makefile?
11:25 avar something that could run on all makes would be a good start
11:25 avar but if you're going to write it in pure-perl it'll be troublesome to write and to get it to work with makemaker
11:29 pmurias avar: is Module::Build an option?
11:30 avar why do you want to use that?
11:31 pmurias just looking at it, it dosn't use make at all
11:31 avar people generally seem to dislike it
11:32 avar anyway depending on make isn't a problem, but depending on GNU make is
11:32 avar you could write perl code in the .PL file to do the patsubst thing and /%.pm
11:33 pmurias dlocaus++ wrote it
11:35 pmurias avar: but the whole Makefile.PL feels hackish
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11:41 avar sure
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11:50 fglock pugs: &say
11:50 exp_evalbot OUTPUT[\:(@?1 is copy) {}{Prim ([Pugs.AST.Internals.Val] -> Pugs.AST.Eval.Eval Pugs.AST.Internals.Val)}␤]
11:51 fglock what does this mean?
11:51 pmurias avar: do you dislike Module::Build youself?
11:51 pmurias pugs: sub a {};&a
11:51 exp_evalbot OUTPUT[\sub :(@_) "$_" := "Scalar" #<Scalar:0xb72c899c>␤          "@_" := "Array" #<Array:0xb72c756c>␤          "&?ROUTINE" := "Sub" #<Sub:0xb6604cec>␤          "&?BLOCK" := "Sub" #<Sub:0xb6604cec> {"&a" := "Sub" #<Sub:0xb722ec30>, "$_" := "Scalar" #<Scalar:0xb72d2cd8>␤
11:51 exp_evalbot ..                                                   "@_...]
11:52 avar pmurias: I just know it routinely breaks my cpan installs by opening dialogs during make test or something
11:52 avar because it insists on not installing things in the normal perl module tree or something
11:55 fglock how about to add the AST to the 'Code' object, to allow serialization?
11:55 pmurias sounds resonable
11:56 fglock &print.perl would just return "&print" ?
11:57 pmurias fglock: or 'sub {...}'
11:57 fglock pmurias: "&print" can be eval'ed back
11:58 pmurias fglock: yes
11:59 pmurias Grammar/Sub.pm and Grammar/Term.pm give compile error in onion
12:01 fglock pmurias: isn't it a perltidy error?
12:01 fglock I got errors on embedded slashes in regexes
12:02 pmurias fglock: could be
12:02 fglock pmurias: I added a --noperltidy option to script/kp6
12:06 pmurias &
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12:09 fglock hmm - how to represent the environment when doing $closure.perl ?
12:11 agentzh fglock: js's version just prints the environmental variable referenced in the function body verbatim :)
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12:15 fglock agentzh: same with pugs
12:16 fglock I'll use that
12:16 agentzh :)
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12:47 pmurias fglock: everything else in Onion works
12:47 pmurias s/works/compiles/
12:48 fglock pmurias: I'll take a look later
12:49 fglock is it in Onion/ ?
12:49 pmurias v6-Onion
12:50 pmurias fglock: have you checked in --noperltidy?
12:50 fglock looking
12:53 fglock pmurias: it is in v6-KindaPerl6/script/kp6
12:54 fglock and Makefile.PL
12:54 fglock KP6_TARGET=KP6-BOOT perl Makefile.PL
12:57 pmurias fglock: found it
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13:28 avar -C'perl5 -notidy'
13:28 avar .oO( option syntax )
13:35 fglock lunch &
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15:51 bbkr hi. what's the procedure of adding something to the examples section of pugs?
15:51 [particle] do you have a commit bit?
15:51 bbkr not yet
15:51 [particle] what's your email address, i'll give you one
15:52 bbkr cpan@bbkr.org
15:52 buubot bbkr: Sorry, I couldn't find a module that matched: @bbkr.org
15:52 bbkr my email is cpan@bbkr.org
15:52 [particle] email is on it's way
15:53 [particle] once you've created your account, it's customary to add your name to AUTHORS to test the commit bit
15:53 bbkr ok, thanks
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16:20 bbkr i wrote card 'war' game simulation (code at http://bbkr.org/~bbkr/card_war_game.pl) that shows some PERL6 features. do you think it's worth adding to examples?
16:21 [particle] sure!
16:22 avar bbkr: s/uniq operator/uniq method/
16:23 bbkr ok
16:24 [particle] p5 question: can a block have multiple labels?
16:25 avar yes
16:25 [particle] what's the syntax? foo: bar: {...} ?
16:25 avar yes
16:25 avar blocks don't have labels, you can put them everywhere you put a statement
16:25 [particle] c:\usr\local\ack>perl -e"foo: bar: { 1 }"
16:25 [particle] syntax error at -e line 1, near "foo: bar:"
16:26 avar $ perl -wle 'loop: 1; loop_two: for (1..2) {}'
16:26 avar urgh
16:26 avar sh-3.1$ perl -wle 'loop: 1; loop_two: for (1..2) { last loop}'
16:26 avar Label not found for "last loop" at -e line 1.
16:26 avar sh-3.1$ perl -wle 'loop: 1; loop_two: for (1..2) { last loop_two }'
16:26 avar sh-3.1$
16:26 avar I'm wrong apperently
16:26 * avar thinking in C
16:27 [particle] yeah, i'm used to c labelling too :(
16:27 funktio $ perl -le 'outer: { inner: for (1..2) { print } }'
16:28 [particle] i guess that's what i'll have to do. funktio++
16:28 avar loop: do {{ loop_two: for (1..2) { last loop } }} <= I think this works
16:29 funktio avar: Label not found for "last loop" at -e line 1.
16:29 [particle] yeah, do doesn't take labels
16:29 [particle] you can't use next or last inside do
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16:30 avar you can if you have a do with two brackets
16:31 avar do {{ last }}
16:32 funktio interesting
16:32 [particle] i guess then you'd need do { label: { last label } }
16:32 funktio yeah, it's last()ing the bare block, not do
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19:02 dlocaus [particle]: ping
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Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo