Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2007-11-03

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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00:53 jimm is it soup yet?
00:56 Limbic_Region you mean dog food?
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01:14 jimm Limbic_Region: dog food, soup... still, it's consumable...
01:15 Limbic_Region there are a few here dogfooding it but mostly they keep changing the recipe
01:17 jimm hmm, ok
01:19 jimm so does that mean what's primarily changing is the way the consumer would see it, or more about its composition?
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01:22 jimm "way consumer sees" == language and syntax; "composition" == internals and methods of interpretation
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02:26 jdv is pugs officially abandonware?
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04:40 Tene jdv79: check the license... it's open-source...
04:41 jdv79 i didn't mean literally;)
04:41 Tene you can already redistribute as you like... "abandonware" typically means "I can't get a legit copy at all, so it's fine to copy someone elses"
04:41 Tene Ahh. What did you mean, then?
04:42 jdv79 i read the comment by jerry gay in the p6 design minutes and put 2 and 2 together
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04:43 Tene Which comment was that?
04:48 Tene jdv79: what would it mean if it was? I'm confused about what you're asking.
04:50 jdv79 it would mean exactly what it means.  just curious.
04:50 * Tene confused, goes to bed.
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06:51 spinclad jdv79: not officially abandonded, i'd say;  more like half-orphaned, perhaps.
06:59 agentzh heh, obra++'s wording was a bit ambiguous
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08:34 dduncan @seen audreyt
08:34 lambdabot I saw audreyt leaving #ghc, #haskell and #perl6 23h 37m 40s ago, and .
08:35 agentzh dduncan: are you still working on your RDB wrapper project?
08:35 dduncan yes
08:36 agentzh haven't seen your commits recently ;)
08:36 agentzh has your code moved out of the pugs repos?
08:36 dduncan the project is split between a language def repo and an impl repo ... only the latter has a version in pugs, and the former presently gets more commits
08:36 agentzh url?
08:37 dduncan have a look at http://utsl.gen.nz/gitweb/
08:37 lambdabot Title: utsl.gen.nz git -
08:37 dduncan 2 projects named 'Muldis'
08:37 dduncan everything is currently either there or with Pugs
08:37 agentzh thanks :)
08:38 dduncan the versions in gitweb are also put on cpan regularly
08:38 agentzh i'll try to find if i can use your work or your ideas in our company :)
08:38 dduncan I've been slower in the last few weeks due to time conflicts, but I'm trying to get a lot done on it in the next few days
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08:39 dduncan agentzh, are you on any email lists where I've been posting about the releases?
08:39 agentzh we are running hundreds or thousands of postgres databases in the company
08:39 dduncan yes
08:39 agentzh dduncan: not any that i'm aware of
08:40 dduncan I usually post about releases on the dbix-class list, plus the lists I setup specifically for muldis-db itself
08:40 agentzh dduncan: cool. i'll subscribe to that list.
08:40 dduncan agentzh, what ideas in particular from my project were you wanting to make use of?
08:41 agentzh dduncan: good abstraction :)
08:41 dduncan yes
08:41 agentzh dduncan: w/o much penalty of performance
08:42 agentzh that's why i love compilers in (general) so much ;)
08:42 dduncan in particular, I see a unique feature of my project in that stored procedures are abstracted, in fact Muldis DB is focused around the paradigm of putting everything in stored procedures as possible
08:42 dduncan unlike all the others
08:42 agentzh that sounds sweet :)
08:42 dduncan would you like to help me with the development?
08:43 agentzh dduncan: i'd love to but i think i should take a closer first ;)
08:43 agentzh *closer look
08:43 dduncan eg, if you want to send me details of use cases that I can try coding cookbook examples out of or tests, that would be helpful ... also if you want to help test
08:43 dduncan "use cases" meaning for relational databases in general
08:44 agentzh i'll have a try :)
08:44 dduncan do you know my email address?
08:44 agentzh no
08:44 dduncan for that matter, what's yours?
08:44 agentzh agentzh@yahoo.cn :)
08:45 agentzh i think it's not hard at all to find out your email address ;)
08:45 agentzh there's CPAN and google :)
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08:45 dduncan I just sent you a test email, try replying to it
08:46 agentzh k
08:46 dduncan that email is the longer version of what I just asked of you
08:46 dduncan about use cases
08:46 agentzh already sent?
08:46 dduncan yes
08:47 dduncan the SMTP server may take a few minutes
08:47 agentzh ah...okay
08:47 agentzh hopefully it's not the problem on my side ;)
08:47 dduncan I recently switched to using my ISP's one, since they were blocking the normal SMTP port
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08:47 agentzh or try this one instead?
08:48 agentzh agentzh@agentzh.org
08:48 dduncan will do ...
08:48 agentzh okay, already got your mail :)
08:48 dduncan then I won't
08:48 agentzh :)
08:48 agentzh yahoo.cn worked :)
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08:49 agentzh very interesting stuff although you've changed its name several times, which leads to a little confusion ;)
08:50 agentzh i'll give you some feedback when i read enough about your baby :)
08:50 agentzh thanks for the info you've provided :)
08:50 dduncan one thing you should know, or it may have been implied, is that the Muldis DB interface is optimized towards declaring all your queries up front as part of your database schema, such that they are stored procedures, and so all you typically do at runtime is invoke stored procedures rather than doing select/iud etc
08:51 agentzh *nod* that's also one of the best practices we've been promoting within our company ;)
08:51 rindolf Hi all.
08:52 dduncan hi rindolf
08:52 agentzh dduncan: i mean using stored procedures as much as possible
08:52 agentzh hey, rindolf
08:52 dduncan yes
08:52 rindolf agentzh: what's up?
08:52 rindolf dduncan: what's up?
08:52 dduncan I'm replying to you
08:52 dduncan besides that ...
08:52 agentzh lol
08:52 dduncan I just did a commit to my language design regarding the entity names docs in Basics.pod
08:53 * agentzh loves docs.
08:53 dduncan basically improving how the entity namespace of Muldis D is meant to map to typical DBMS backends
08:53 agentzh what do you mean by entities in this context?
08:53 dduncan tomorrow I expect to start doing a top-down design of the system catalog
08:54 agentzh as in entity-relation?
08:54 dduncan no
08:54 dduncan entity, as in some named thing, like a variable or data type or routine
08:54 agentzh ah, okay :)
08:55 dduncan I use "entity" to describe something in the programming language or database that can be invoked or referred to
08:55 agentzh it makes sense
08:55 dduncan oh, and I use the word "relation" to mean what SQL means when it says "table" or "rowset"
08:56 agentzh heh
08:56 dduncan that'll be fun for users
08:56 dduncan used to typical Perl ORMs
08:56 agentzh hmm
08:57 dduncan or I should say, a "relation value" is a rowset, a "relation variable" is a table
08:57 dduncan the result of a select is a relation
08:57 * agentzh tries to get used to these terms.
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08:58 agentzh dduncan: btw, how far is your system from being used in production?
08:58 dduncan my language actually defines its terms where there may be confusion; see the top of Basics.pod
08:58 dduncan hard to say
08:58 dduncan a few months is probably the most realistic answer
08:58 dduncan but I hope to have something useful for testing in a few weeks
08:59 agentzh dduncan: great :)
08:59 agentzh dduncan: something runnable is always nice :)
08:59 dduncan hopefully once the earlier milestone is reached, people will jump on board like they did for Pugs when it could say "hello world"
09:00 agentzh if i find something particularly useful in your design, i may steal it, implement it quickly myself, and use it in production directly ;)
09:00 dduncan I would compare most of my work so far to be analagous to Larry's writing of the Apocalypses ... or Synopsis
09:01 agentzh heh, that may be sufficient for my purpose ;)
09:01 dduncan suit yourself, though I would hope that your work could merge with mine some day as is appropriate
09:01 agentzh dduncan: i hope so as well :)
09:01 dduncan by the way, is the LGPLv3+ license suitable for you?
09:01 agentzh i think yes :)
09:02 dduncan good, that
09:03 dduncan agentzh, what time is it over there?
09:03 agentzh we're very willing to contribute back to opensource projects that we've found useful :)
09:03 agentzh 17:03
09:03 dduncan its 02:03 here
09:03 dduncan so I'm about to lay
09:03 agentzh oh!
09:03 agentzh sorry
09:03 agentzh sleep well, dduncan :)
09:03 dduncan but that's fine, I often keep late nights, and realize that some of you are only around now
09:04 agentzh hehe
09:04 dduncan on that note, do you know what's up with audrey?
09:04 agentzh audreyt is still recovering very slowly
09:04 agentzh she's quit excitement
09:04 dduncan afaik, audrey was attending some family matter, and didn't really come back
09:04 agentzh but she has not quit pressure
09:05 agentzh as she recently said on #jifty
09:05 agentzh family matter?
09:05 dduncan I'm not sure, maybe something about a sick relative?
09:06 agentzh i think it's herself :)
09:06 dduncan back to my project, I'm unlikely to change its name again ... this very week I'm now registering a business with the name 'Muldis', and shortly after trying to trademark the term (in Canada anyway)
09:06 agentzh wow
09:06 dduncan and I registered lots of generic TLDs for it a few years ago
09:07 dduncan assuming the business gets setup properly, I'll update my docs to reference it as a place to get support soon
09:08 agentzh cool
09:08 dduncan rather than referencing my personal name
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09:08 agentzh so you'll soon be self-employed?
09:08 dduncan yes, moreover, incorporated
09:08 agentzh heh
09:08 agentzh congrats :)
09:09 dduncan so, during what hours in your own timezone are you typically responsive on this channel?
09:09 dduncan myself, typically from noon to midnight my time
09:09 dduncan plus or minus a few hours
09:09 agentzh for me, 10:00 ~ 18:00 beijing time
09:10 dduncan okay
09:11 agentzh supper &
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10:12 pugs_svn r18783 | pmurias++ | [kp6] added a test which demonstrates the nature of the bug dlocaus worked on
10:12 pugs_svn r18783 | pmurias++ | $match.bool == $match
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22:28 fridim hi.
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23:04 wolverian do we have an rfc822 grammar in e.g. tests? I don't see one .. I mechanically ported over the one in 5.9.5's test suite, committing it if no-one objects.. someone can make fix it up then :)
23:10 wolverian also, when should I use token and when rule? I'm not sure about this backtracking business..
23:14 wolverian well, I suppose terminals are a good candidate

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Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo