Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2007-11-04

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:04 wolverian hm, http://commit.pugscode.org goes to a file index
00:04 lambdabot Title: Index of /
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01:06 DarkWolf84 I had problems with token/rule/regex
01:08 DarkWolf84 wolverian, I think that only regex has backtracking
01:08 wolverian I think only tokens don't :)
01:09 wolverian (and anything with :ratchet)
01:09 wolverian oh, wait. rule implies :ratchet too.
01:10 DarkWolf84 rules have space converting
01:10 wolverian right
01:10 DarkWolf84 thats the difference between token and rule
01:11 DarkWolf84 I don't got all the stuff in kp6
01:13 DarkWolf84 some private keys are not defined at the begining and the class is not inherited
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09:53 pmurias DarkWolf84: can you explain what you don't get in kp6?
09:55 moritz_ the member variables of some kp6 classes are defined in MOP.pm
09:55 moritz_ DarkWolf84: is that what confuses you?
09:59 pugs_svn r18784 | pmurias++ | mentioned what causes the bug
10:00 pmurias moritz_: hi
10:02 moritz_ hi pmurias
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10:13 moritz_ perl -wle 'my $re=join "|", 0 .. 255; print "yes" if "256" =~ m/^$re$/o'
10:13 moritz_ why does this print yes?
10:14 * moritz_ is really confused
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10:19 funktio moritz_: perl -wle 'my $re=join "|", 0 .. 255; print "yes" if "256" =~ m/^($re)$/o'
10:19 jrockway yup, 25 matches 256 :)
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10:20 jrockway if you used qr// you wouldn't have had that problem, fwiw :)
10:20 bloonix morning
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10:21 moritz_ funktio: ok, thanks
10:30 pmurias buubot: hel
10:30 pmurias buubot: help
10:30 buubot pmurias: Available Plugins:  oeis jeval spell cpan shorten rt topic squeeze rbeval acronym change managementspeak reverse join really_deparse translate bibleit core imdb insult tv help echo eval convert jseval mangle restart quit deparse part pyeval reload_plugins goobooblink heap_test rss
10:30 pmurias buubot: eval 'my $re=join "|", 0 .. 255; print "yes" if "256" =~ m/^($re)$/o
10:30 buubot pmurias:  ''ERROR: 1494: Can't find string terminator "'" anywhere before EOF at (eval 238) line 1.
10:31 pmurias buubot: eval my $re=join "|", 0 .. 255; print "yes" if "256" =~ m/^($re)$/o
10:31 buubot pmurias:  ''ERROR: 1502: Can't find string terminator '"' anywhere before EOF at (eval 238) line 1.
10:31 moritz_ pmurias: I solved it with m/^(?:$re)$/
10:32 pmurias checking if there is a perl5 eval bot here ;)
10:32 moritz_ pmurias: buubot should work
10:32 pmurias buubot: eval print "Hello World"
10:32 buubot pmurias:  Hello World1
10:32 moritz_ eval my $re=join "|", 0 .. 255; print "yes" if "255" =~ m/^(?:$re)$/;
10:32 buubot moritz_:  ''ERROR: 1583: Can't find string terminator '"' anywhere before EOF at (eval 238) line 1.
10:33 pmurias buubot: eval my $re=join "|", 0 .. 255;
10:33 buubot pmurias:  ''ERROR: 1585: Can't find string terminator '"' anywhere before EOF at (eval 238) line 1.
10:33 pmurias buubot: eval 'my $re=join "|", 0 .. 255;'
10:33 buubot pmurias:  ''ERROR: 1591: Can't find string terminator "'" anywhere before EOF at (eval 238) line 1.
10:33 moritz_ it seems the " are the problem
10:33 moritz_ eval my $re=join '|', 0 .. 255; print 'yes' if '255' =~ m/^(?:$re)$/;
10:33 buubot moritz_:  ''ERROR: 1611: Can't find string terminator "'" anywhere before EOF at (eval 238) line 1.
10:33 pmurias buubot: eval print 'yes' if '255' =~ m/^(?:$re)$/
10:33 buubot pmurias:  ''ERROR: 1626: Search pattern not terminated at (eval 238) line 1.
10:34 moritz_ buubot--
10:34 buubot moritz_:  is the module loaded?
10:34 bloonix eval my $re=join '|', 0 .. 255; print 'yes' if 255 =~ m/^(?:$re)$/;
10:34 buubot bloonix:  ''ERROR: 1643: Can't find string terminator "'" anywhere before EOF at (eval 238) line 1.
10:34 pmurias eval my $re=join q{|}, 0 .. 255; print q{yes} if q{255} =~ m{^(?:$re)$};
10:34 buubot pmurias:  ''ERROR: 1653: Can't find string terminator "}" anywhere before EOF at (eval 238) line 1.
10:35 bloonix eval my $re=join "|", 0 .. 255; print "yes" if 255 =~ m/^(?:$re)$/;
10:35 buubot bloonix:  ''ERROR: 1735: Can't find string terminator '"' anywhere before EOF at (eval 238) line 1.
10:35 moritz_ breakfeast/brunch &
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10:54 bloonix eval: $re=join "|", 0 .. 255; print "yes" if 255 =~ m/^(?:$re)$/;
10:54 buubot bloonix:  yes1
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11:54 ludan hi
11:55 moritz_ hi ludan ;)
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17:04 pmurias exit
17:05 pmurias quit
17:05 pmurias reboot
17:05 xinming pmurias: :-)
17:05 pmurias close
17:05 pmurias stop
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17:40 barney :q
17:40 barney ^c
17:40 wolverian heh
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18:32 pmurias parents tried to switch to openoffice (i'm using ratpoison)
18:35 ggoebel Where is the best place for people interested in mp6/kp6/onion to start? dev.pugscode.org/wiki?
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18:42 moritz_ www.pugscode.org/kp6.html iirc
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18:52 pmurias ggoebel: using kp6 or hacking on it?
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18:59 ggoebel pmurias: both
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19:00 moritz_ well, here ;)
19:00 ggoebel I see stub links for mp6 and kp6 at http://dev.pugscode.org/wiki/ should these point to http://www.pugscode.org/kp6.html?
19:01 moritz_ that would be a good idea, yes
19:02 ggoebel It seems the documentation for the various implementations for perl6, the spec, etc. are spread on multiple sites. Many of which are out of date.
19:03 moritz_ yes... hacking real code is much more fun than writing html pages about it :)
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19:03 moritz_ that's why you should always ask on IRC if something doesn't match ;)
19:04 ggoebel well I'm not sure I'm up to hacking it. Seems like it'd take more tuits than I have just to grok what I'd need to know in order to add anything of value.
19:04 moritz_ fact is that the language spec is the most important document for the "end user", everything else is implementation dependent
19:05 pmurias you can look at t/kp6 to see what's implemented
19:05 ggoebel Okay I'll update the wiki... how do I get a trac login to dev.pugscode.org?
19:06 moritz_ you need a commit bit
19:06 moritz_ if you don't have one, /msg me your email address and your desired nick
19:07 ggoebel Hacking may be more fun, but writing about it can make it easier for others to join in the fun
19:07 moritz_ or just write it here, the logging bot has anti spam features
19:07 moritz_ btw you have to be registered with freenode to be able to /msg :(
19:08 ggoebel MSG moritz_ did this work?
19:08 moritz_ diakopter, Juerd, TimToady, any other feather admins: trac doesn't respond, could you please restart it?
19:08 moritz_ ggoebel: no, that was public
19:13 ggoebel is there any list of the bots which are running and what they're good for?
19:14 pmurias SLAVES?
19:15 moritz_ pmurias: SLAVES are only the bot maintainers
19:15 moritz_ the bot 'test' logs for irc.pugscode.org
19:16 moritz_ exp_evalbot executes perl 6 via pugs, kp6, nqp, etc ;)
19:16 moritz_ buubot evals p5 code and has many other plugins
19:16 moritz_ pugs_svn echos the commit messages of the pugs repository
19:17 moritz_ lambdabot can @google, record @messages etc
19:17 moritz_ any important bot that I forogt?
19:17 moritz_ ggoebel: now you have your list at http://irclog.perlgeek.de/​perl6/2007-11-04#i_137224 ;-)
19:18 lambdabot Title: IRC log for #perl6, 2007-11-04
19:34 ggoebel where's the code and/or docs on the bots
19:34 moritz_ @google lambdabot
19:34 lambdabot http://www.cse.unsw.edu.au/~dons/lambdabot.html
19:34 lambdabot Title: lambdabot
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19:34 moritz_ logging bot is in misc/irclog/ in the pugs repo
19:35 moritz_ exp_evalbot is in misc/evalbot/
19:35 moritz_ pugs_svn is a quick'n'dirty hack, I haven't bothered to publish the sources anywhere
19:36 moritz_ the most important commands:
19:36 moritz_ kp6: say "welcome, ggoebel"
19:36 exp_evalbot r18784: OUTPUT[welcome, ggoebel␤]
19:37 moritz_ @tell ggoebel this is a message recorded by lambdabot
19:37 lambdabot Consider it noted.
19:37 ggoebel dev.pugscode.org/wiki/Overview has several links refering to http://dev.pugscode.org/browser/src. But this doesn't appear at first glance to be the same source as can be found at http://svn.pugscode.org/pugs ...Am I missing something?
19:37 lambdabot ggoebel: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
19:37 lambdabot Title: /src - Pugs - Trac
19:38 moritz_ ggoebel: that's a "nicer" view on svn.pugscode.org/pugs/src/
19:40 ggoebel really? I have yet to find t/kp6 anywhere under http://dev.pugscode.org/browser/src
19:40 lambdabot Title: /src - Pugs - Trac
19:42 moritz_ http://dev.pugscode.org/browser/v6/v6-KindaPerl6/ is the kp6 place
19:42 lambdabot Title: /v6/v6-KindaPerl6/ - Pugs - Trac
19:42 ggoebel can I assume buubot is the one in misc/buildbot?
19:42 ggoebel ah, thanks
19:44 moritz_ ggoebel: no, buubot isn't maintained anywhere near here
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19:51 ggoebel the readme (http://dev.pugscode.org/browser/v6/README) indicates that v6-MiniPerl6, v6-KindaPerl6, and yap6 are active subprojects. Looks like v6-Onion is missing from the list... and that v6-MiniPerl6-JVM might be stalled.
19:51 lambdabot Title: /v6/README - Pugs - Trac
19:52 moritz_ you're right about v6-mp6-JVM
19:53 moritz_ and onion... that's very new, so it's probably not yet added
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20:01 ggoebel In http://dev.pugscode.org/browser/v6/docs/kp6.jpg created back on 2007-04-05, "Onion" shown as Perl6 on Parrot. Was this foresight or is this a different Onion?
20:01 lambdabot Title: /v6/docs/kp6.jpg - Pugs - Trac
20:02 moritz_ ggoebel: that's a differnt Onion - pmichaud++ wanted to rename Perl6 on Parrot to "Onion", but didn't do it so far
20:02 moritz_ but since perl's symbol is an onion, that's not so hard to predict ;)
20:03 PerlJam Though it looks more like garlic than onion in some renderings.
20:03 moritz_ maybe we should rename it to 'garlic', then ;)
20:04 PerlJam I wouldn't be opposed :)
20:05 moritz_ /etc/apache2/sites-availab​le/commitbit.pugscode.org only consits of comments :/
20:07 allbery_b shallot?
20:09 ggoebel Allium is the onion genus... which includes shallots, garlic, leeks, chives, etc. Sounds like a new prescription drug...
20:11 pmurias i like garlic as the name
20:11 ggoebel I like garlic too. But not everyone likes that I like garlic...
20:12 pmurias i don't like garlic as food though
20:12 ggoebel How about: Pip?
20:12 ggoebel Perl6-in-Perl6
20:12 moritz_ that sounds a bit like 'pimp' :/
20:12 PerlJam And parrot is the pizza with anchoives (php), garlic (perl), pepperoni (python), etc.
20:13 ggoebel and when you talk about emitters, you could talk about laying pipe...
20:13 PerlJam though, on a pizza, perl is more like cheese
20:14 ggoebel what? it isn't pizza without it?
20:14 ggoebel I need to go back to reading code and documentation.
20:14 ggoebel wanders away...
20:14 PerlJam perl binds everything together just like cheese does for pizza
20:17 avar pip also sounds like that guy in south park cartman loves to beat up:)
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21:59 obra Hey, Perl 6 people
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22:07 mncharity hi obra.
22:07 mncharity though my "Perl 6 people"-ness may be somewhat decayed. ;)
22:07 obra hey mncharity. How's tricks?
22:08 mncharity mostly OLPC flavored.  though just now puzzling over a bottleneck analysis of the p6 project.
22:15 mncharity xmas < impl < design < existence of impl to provide foil for design < impl which passes test suite (is something weaker sufficient?) < {frontend, ast, backend} which pass suite.  Q: Does an ast spec which can cover the suite (including oo) exist yet?  Does a frontend exist which can generate it?  Does a backend exist which can run it?
22:15 obra oh. what are you doing for OLPC?
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22:16 PerlJam mncharity: See pdd26_ast.pod in ~parrot/docs/pdds
22:17 ggoebel funny... I just compared US spending on the war in Iraq with the cost of an XO at $200 from OLPC. The US could have bought more than one laptop for every child on earth...
22:19 pmurias mncharity: lots of stuff can be converted in method calls, the kp6 ast could probably covert lots (if not all) of the test suit
22:19 pmurias s/in/into
22:22 pmurias sleep&
22:24 mncharity obra: ended up being mostly docs, getting emulation working, and since getting beta hardware, testing.  original intent was to do app dev.  may or may not get back to that, before having to move on.
22:24 mncharity pmurias: oh, drat.
22:25 mncharity ggoebel: 'every dollar spent on ... is bread/medicine/education not ...' :/
22:25 mncharity PerlJam: tnx, looking...
22:31 obra *nodnod*
22:39 mncharity PerlJam: re http://svn.perl.org/viewcvs/parrot/tr​unk/docs/pdds/pdd26_ast.pod?view=log , sigh.  I am... much more culturally in sympathy with the pugs/kp6 approach to asts.
22:39 lambdabot Title: [parrot] Log of /trunk/docs/pdds/pdd26_ast.pod, http://tinyurl.com/yo6njw
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22:47 mncharity ggoebel: another scary number is the scale.  130 millionish kids born each year, almost all of which at least start primary school.  So, making an poor assumption of homogeneous distribution,  a 1 day project slippage means missing 300 thousand kids.  a week, 2 M.  You need to triple world laptop production just to match the rate of new kids entering school, not even touching the ~1000 M already of school age.
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22:50 mncharity anyone know if the multimethod spec has been nailed down?
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