Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2007-11-07

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:03 pugs_svn r18806 | avar++ | * [kp6] deleted some redundant pod
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11:21 pugs_svn r18807 | fglock++ | [kp6-roadmap] added Milestone 5.2 - Working bootstrapped grammar
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13:02 ruoso kp6: my $a = gather for (1 .. Inf) { say kp6++; take 1; }; print $a[10];
13:02 exp_evalbot r18807: OUTPUT[error in Block at compiled/perl5-kp6-mp6/lib​/KindaPerl6/Grammar/Sub.pm line 753, <> line 1.␤*** Syntax Error in Block: missing closing curly bracket } ␤]
13:03 ruoso kp6: my $a = gather { for (1 .. Inf) { say kp6++; take 1; }}; print $a[10];
13:03 exp_evalbot r18807: OUTPUT[error in Block at compiled/perl5-kp6-mp6/lib​/KindaPerl6/Grammar/Sub.pm line 753, <> line 1.␤*** Syntax Error in Block: missing closing curly bracket } ␤]
13:03 ruoso kp6: my $a = gather { for ( 1 .. Inf ) { say "kp6++"; take 1; }}; print $a[10];
13:03 exp_evalbot r18807: OUTPUT[error in Block at compiled/perl5-kp6-mp6/lib​/KindaPerl6/Grammar/Sub.pm line 753, <> line 1.␤*** Syntax Error in Block: missing closing curly bracket } ␤]
13:03 ruoso kp6: my $a; $a = gather { for ( 1 .. Inf ) { say "kp6++"; take 1; }}; print $a[10];
13:03 exp_evalbot r18807: OUTPUT[error in Block at compiled/perl5-kp6-mp6/lib​/KindaPerl6/Grammar/Sub.pm line 753, <> line 1.␤*** Syntax Error in Block: missing closing curly bracket } ␤]
13:04 ruoso kp6: my $a; $a = gather { for ( 1 .. Inf ) -> $x { say "kp6++"; take $x; }}; print $a[10];
13:04 exp_evalbot r18807: OUTPUT[kp6++␤kp6++␤kp6++␤kp6++␤kp6++␤k​p6++␤kp6++␤kp6++␤kp6++␤kp6++␤kp6++␤11]
13:09 moritz_ @karma kp6
13:09 lambdabot kp6 has a karma of 1
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14:39 pugs_svn r18808 | fglock++ | [kp6] fixed typo in script/kp6
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15:21 pugs_svn r18809 | fglock++ | [kp6-roadmap] minor updates
15:25 * moritz_ updates the html version
15:27 pugs_svn r18810 | fglock++ | [kp6-roadmap] possible next milestones
15:28 fglock moritz_: sorry :P
15:28 moritz_ fglock: no problem, it's really just two lines on the command line
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15:42 pugs_svn r18811 | dlo++ | Added note about how to forcerecompile everything.
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15:44 pmurias is make forcerecompile;make different than make -B?
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15:45 moritz_ uhm, dunno
15:48 moritz_ pmurias: yes, make -B always tries to rebuilt Makefile
15:48 moritz_ and dies with
15:48 moritz_ ==> Your Makefile has been rebuilt. <==
15:48 moritz_ ==> Please rerun the make command.  <==
15:49 moritz_ `make -j' for kp6 produces a load of nearly 15 ;)
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16:13 moritz_ script/run_tests_kp6_mp6_perl5rx.pl is broken for me
16:13 moritz_ it just prints "FAILED--no tests were run for some reason." twice, and then "some tests failed" - that's all
16:16 pmurias perl script/run_tests.pl --backend=perl5rx works for me
16:16 pmurias i get the same error with the former
16:16 moritz_ maybe we should just make the former a wrapper to the latter
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16:16 moritz_ no need to maintain the same code twice
16:16 pmurias we could remove the former
16:17 moritz_ even better ;)
16:20 pugs_svn r18812 | moritz++ | [kp6]
16:20 pugs_svn r18812 | moritz++ |  * make forcerecompile
16:20 pugs_svn r18812 | moritz++ |  * delete broken script/run_tests_kp6_mp6_perl5rx.pl, the same can be achieved
16:20 pugs_svn r18812 | moritz++ |    with script/run_tests.pl --backend=perl5rx
16:20 pugs_svn r18812 | moritz++ |  * updated link in docs/pk6-parrot-boundry.txt
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16:41 fglock I'm working out how to split kp6 devel into tasks
16:41 fglock I've got a list of tasks, but it doesn't correspond exactly to the roadmap
16:44 fglock maybe splitting the roadmap into tracks, and allow people to work in parallel
16:45 moritz_ fglock: which tasks, for example?
16:46 fglock moritz_: things that belong to - longest token; namespaces; scopes; threads; regex emitters
16:49 fglock stm, autovivification, lazy lists, junctions
16:50 fglock the roadmap is the "main track"
16:50 moritz_ sounds like a plan
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17:11 dlocaus sorry, I didn't realize the perl6 irc window was closed out
17:12 dlocaus Would anyone mind if I attempted to make Makefile.PL a bit more documented?
17:12 pmurias i don't think anyone would mind documentation
17:12 dlocaus ok
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17:17 pmurias unless it's deliberately misleading :)
17:17 dlocaus I'll try and avoid that :)
17:17 pugs_svn r18813 | dlo++ | [KP6] Corrected documentation (minor)
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17:36 fglock kp6: rmdir "x"
17:36 exp_evalbot r18813: OUTPUT[no method 'say' in Class 'Str'␤ at compiled/perl5-kp6-mp6/lib/Ki​ndaPerl6/Runtime/Perl5/MOP.pm line 334␤    KindaPerl6::Runtime::Perl5::MOP::__​ANON__('DISPATCH=HASH(0x874ed10)', 'say') called at compiled/perl5-kp6-mp6/lib/Ki​ndaPerl6/Runtime/Perl5/MOP.pm line 162␤
17:36 exp_evalbot ..main::DISPATCH('DISPATCH=HASH(0x874ed10)', 'say') called at - line 16␤]
17:36 fglock kp6: rmdir "x"; say 1;
17:36 exp_evalbot r18813: OUTPUT[1␤]
17:36 moritz_ fglock: --secure is broken :(
17:54 pasteling "dlocaus" at 63.192.210.11 pasted "Can't locate v6.pm in @INC?" (12 lines, 1K) at http://sial.org/pbot/28484
17:54 dlocaus I have a v6 in "pugs/perl5/Pugs-Compiler-Perl6/lib/v6.pm", is that the one I'm supposed to use?
17:55 moritz_ dlocaus: you forgot a redirection symbol, I guess
17:55 moritz_ perl script/kp6 -Cperl5 src/KindaPerl6/Runtime/Perl6/Array.pm compiled/perl5-kp6-mp6/lib/KindaPerl6/Runtime/Pe
17:56 moritz_ that should > compiled/perl5-k...
17:56 moritz_ s/should/should be/
17:56 dlocaus sorry, even with out the redirection symbol it doesn't work
17:57 pasteling "dlocaus" at 63.192.210.11 pasted "opps, cut-n-paste booboo" (10 lines, 975B) at http://sial.org/pbot/28486
17:57 fglock dlocaus: it works here
17:57 moritz_ same here
17:58 dlocaus is there a path that I am missing from PERL5LIB?
17:58 dlocaus PERL5LIB=./inc/v6-MiniPerl6-lib5:src
17:58 moritz_ dlocaus: perhaps you have a miscompiled/svn conflicting/whatever repo
17:58 fglock script/kp6 should set it's own lib
17:59 fglock try removing PERL5LIB ?
17:59 moritz_ dlocaus: just to be sure, check out the kp6 part of the pugs repo into a clean dir, and try it there
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18:01 dlocaus removing PERL5LIB didn't work, I'm checking out a clean copy
18:01 fglock I usually do: svk revert -R .
18:02 fglock then: svk up -s
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18:02 fglock this is almost like a clean copy
18:03 moritz_ should 'make test' default to --backend=perl5rx
18:03 moritz_ ?
18:04 fglock moritz_: not sure - perl5rx is less portable
18:05 fglock it is being used in kp6-kp6 for performance reasons
18:05 dlocaus I'm trying again, I think it has something to do with "make forcerecompile"
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18:06 fglock trying forcerecompile here
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18:08 dlocaus I'm always thinking I've gotten a faster computer, but everything stays the same.
18:09 moritz_ ;)
18:09 moritz_ I noticed that you have to run 'make' twice after forcerecompile
18:11 * dlocaus wonders if a directory could be jinxed.
18:12 moritz_ dlocaus: after a recompile it works fine for me
18:12 fglock MiniPerl6 requires 2 compilation cycles
18:13 dlocaus I'm wondering if that is what is doing it, I'm not compiling it twice.
18:13 fglock the first compilation compiles the compiler, and the second compiles the runtime using the new compiler
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18:14 fglock hmm - this sounds confusing
18:14 dlocaus fglock: is there some way of fixing the Makefile.PL so it does it twice automatically for us?
18:16 fglock not sure how to do it, mp6 uses a separate script for bootstrapping
18:17 fglock but kp6 should not require 2 cycles yet, because it still uses mp6
18:17 dlocaus Ah ha!
18:17 dlocaus I think I've got it
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18:20 dlocaus - start with a clean respoitory
18:20 dlocaus perl Makefile.PL
18:20 dlocaus make forcerecompile
18:20 dlocaus make -j
18:20 fglock make -j might be a problem
18:20 dlocaus I think the -j forces the code to "jump" ahead and attempt to compile files that haven't been created yet.
18:22 pugs_svn r18814 | fglock++ | [kp6-perl5] make forcerecompile
18:22 * dlocaus blames moritz_--
18:22 dlocaus http://irclog.perlgeek.de/​perl6/2007-11-01#i_135836
18:22 lambdabot Title: IRC log for #perl6, 2007-11-01
18:23 fglock it would be better to create a whole new compiled/, and later move it to the right place
18:23 dlocaus ;)
18:23 fglock trying out -j
18:24 dlocaus it works, I've done it without -j several times.
18:24 fglock yes - it doesn't work
18:24 fglock I mean, -j doesn't work here
18:24 dlocaus which, was why I was thinking that the directory was jinxed.  I was doing it differently
18:25 * moritz_ takes the blame, but points out that if the dependencies in Makefile were specified complete it wouldn't break
18:25 moritz_ s/complete/completely/
18:25 fglock I've got a bunch of broken files like: compiled/perl5-kp6-mp6/lib/KindaP​erl6/Runtime/Perl6/Array.pm.temp
18:26 fglock I think it is trying to overwrite files that are in use
18:26 fglock it can't compile to Array.pm because there is another compiler using Array.pm
18:27 fglock so we really need a temp directory
18:27 pmurias kp6 uses Array.pm
18:27 fglock instead of temp files
18:27 pugs_svn r18815 | dlo++ | [kp6] Updated forcerecompile documentation to note that you cannot use "make -j"
18:27 moritz_ dlocaus++ # I was about to suggest that ;)
18:31 fglock you can use -j, but you need to change the Makefile a bit
18:31 * dlocaus is still trying to figure out how everything works :)
18:32 dlocaus which, is why I'm attempting to documenting the Makefile.PL => Makefile.
18:32 * fglock doesn't have Makefile-fu
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18:35 pugs_svn r18816 | fglock++ | [mp6] v6-MiniPerl6-JVM moved away
18:39 pugs_svn r18817 | dlo++ | [kp6] I have updated the Makefile.PL to issue a warning not to use "make -j" after doing "make forcerecompile" as
18:39 pugs_svn r18817 | dlo++ | this will generate odd errors.
18:39 pugs_svn r18817 | dlo++ |
18:39 pugs_svn r18817 | dlo++ | http://irclog.perlgeek.de/​perl6/2007-11-07#i_139627
18:39 pugs_svn r18817 | dlo++ |
18:39 lambdabot Title: IRC log for #perl6, 2007-11-07
18:39 pugs_svn r18817 | dlo++ | I have also updated the Makefile.PL to tell us "what COMPILE" means when it is compiling.
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18:47 fglock dlocaus: I'm trying to split kp6 into small tasks, as people have been suggesting
18:47 dlocaus fglock: thank you! :)
18:48 dlocaus fglock: I've been trying to figure out how kp6 is put together.  I've embarked on documenting Makefile.PL ( and some cosmetic clean up ) to get better understanding
18:48 fglock have you taken a look at the drawings at v6/docs/ ?
18:48 fglock it would be nice if you could comment on which tasks you have identified so far
18:49 dlocaus I have
18:49 fglock I'm working out a tasks x roadmap diagram
18:50 dlocaus The problem is understand what is doing what.  Given that one language is compiled to parse another language and then perl6 code is translated/compiled into perl5 code to provide runtime for perl6 code hasn't been making things easy ;)
18:50 * dlocaus snickers
18:53 dlocaus Right now, I'm seeing if I can factor perltidy out of the Makefile and into script/mp6 script/kp6 when it is used in Makefile
18:56 pugs_svn r18818 | dlo++ | [kp6] Makefile will now removing temporary (dollar)@.temp files that it creates when a compilation failes
18:57 dlocaus fglock: moritz_: would either of you mind if I updated script/mp6 to use perltidy by default, like script/kp6 does?
18:57 fglock dlocaus: no problem
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19:11 pmurias fglock: why is (??{ eval '$_rule_something' }) used instead of (??{$_rule_something})?
19:12 fglock pmurias: because it must be interpolated as late as possible (i think)
19:13 pmurias aren't both forms the same thing?
19:14 fglock I think there are some tests - looking
19:15 fglock under examples/token* - but I'm not sure which one is testing this
19:15 fglock there is some docs in v6/docs/p6regex-on-p5regex.txt
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19:17 cathyal hi
19:17 cathyal ask away?
19:17 pmurias yes
19:17 pmurias or rethink the question
19:17 pmurias whatever you prefare
19:18 pmurias prefere
19:18 pmurias * prefer
19:18 * pmurias lacks spelling-fu
19:24 fglock pmurias: the prototype scripts used eval as a way to implement inheritance - v6-KindaPerl6/temp/backtra​cking-recursive-subrule.pl
19:28 pugs_svn r18819 | fglock++ | [kp6] moved temp/ to misc/
19:30 pugs_svn r18820 | fglock++ | [kp6] moved token experiments from examples/ to misc/
19:33 fglock several things in examples/ and docs/ could be moved to misc/
19:38 pmurias cathyal: what about you question?
19:39 pugs_svn r18821 | fglock++ | [kp6] move docs around
19:43 pugs_svn r18822 | fglock++ | [kp6] set html docs to "text/html"
19:44 pmurias fglock: the eval should be removed as it is puzzling and possibly slowe
19:45 dlocaus yea!
19:45 pugs_svn r18823 | dlo++ | [kp6]
19:45 pugs_svn r18823 | dlo++ |
19:45 pugs_svn r18823 | dlo++ | script/mp6.pl now will use Perl::Tidy if available to clean up produced files.
19:45 pugs_svn r18823 | dlo++ |
19:45 pugs_svn r18823 | dlo++ | script/mp6.pl now accepts a --noperltidy option
19:45 dlocaus that was an odd pain in the butt.
19:45 pugs_svn r18823 | dlo++ |
19:46 pugs_svn r18823 | dlo++ | mp6.pl produces the exact same output with or without perltidy as the old mp6.pl file does.
19:46 fglock pmurias: I'll investigate that - probably needs more tests to be sure
19:47 pmurias you could remove it and test if everthing works
19:47 fglock dlocaus: cool
19:47 fglock pmurias: right now perl5rx is broken by the delimiter bug; it needs to be fixed first
19:48 fglock so we can actually run big tests
19:52 fglock pmurias: is it ok to move tokeninline into scripts/ ?
19:53 fglock and kp6-token-debug
19:53 pmurias fglock: yes
19:56 pugs_svn r18824 | fglock++ | [kp6] base dir cleanup
20:01 fglock home &
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20:15 pugs_svn r18825 | dlo++ | [KP6] I updated Makefile.PL to take advantage of script/mp6.pl perltidy change (last commit?).  These files are
20:15 pugs_svn r18825 | dlo++ | changed as a result of perltidy being run on them.  At least for the files I checked, the changes appear to be
20:15 pugs_svn r18825 | dlo++ | cosmetic.
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20:19 gbacon small bug in script/kp6
20:19 dlocaus gbacon: what is it?
20:19 gbacon print on line 385 has a spurious comma
20:20 moritz_ gbacon: do you have a commit bit?
20:20 gbacon prevents clisp tests from running
20:20 gbacon no :-(
20:20 moritz_ gbacon: /msg me your email and desired nick
20:20 moritz_ and you'll get one
20:20 dlocaus I will fix that, one second
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20:21 pugs_svn r18826 | dlo++ | [kp6] removed misplaced comma, (gbacon++)
20:21 dlocaus commited
20:21 nwc10 In Perl 6, if you do the Perl 6 equivalent of the Perl 5 my $foo = \&bar;
20:22 nwc10 does it have a side effect equivalent to the Perl 6 equivalent of the Perl 5 sub bar;
20:22 nwc10 ie, does taking a reference to a function implicitly declare a stub that affects method resolution?
20:22 pmurias nwc10: no
20:23 moritz_ no, it doesn't
20:23 nwc10 OK.
20:23 pmurias it's my $foo = &bar;
20:23 nwc10 what happends in Perl 6 if you try to invoke the subroutine via the reference and it does not exist?
20:23 moritz_ gbacon: it's a custom to add your name to AUTHORS as a first commit (and commit test at the same time)
20:24 moritz_ nwc10: it dies
20:24 pmurias nwc10: you can't take a reference to subroutine which does not exist
20:24 moritz_ nwc10: at the time of referecing it, not at calling time
20:24 nwc10 um. AUTODLOAD/
20:24 nwc10 you can in Perl 5.
20:24 moritz_ aye
20:25 gbacon roger
20:25 moritz_ perl 6 breaks compatibility deliberately
20:25 nwc10 so you get a reference that will die always? even if you later define sub bar {...}
20:25 moritz_ nwc10: no, you get an compile time error in the line of the assignment
20:25 nwc10 Ah.
20:25 nwc10 that's what you meant by "it dies" :-)
20:25 moritz_ my $foo = &nonexisting_sub; files
20:25 moritz_ s/files/fails/
20:25 moritz_ English is hard ;)
20:25 nwc10 ah. interesting.
20:26 nwc10 Um. typing is hard too. I'm a native speaker and my fingers still do that sort of thing for me. :-)
20:26 moritz_ ;-)
20:26 moritz_ that's because you're not a native writer ;)
20:28 pmurias native typer
20:28 pmurias * typist
20:28 moritz_ typo!
20:28 pugs_svn r18827 | dlo++ | [kp6] updated the Makefile.PL documentation to include note about forcerecompile and make -j
20:30 nwc10 thanks
20:31 pugs_svn r18828 | dlo++ | [kp6] changed _patsubst_wildcard subroutine documetnation from POD to comments, so the documentation will not mess up existing Makefile.PL POD documentation
20:33 moritz_ dlocaus++ # documentation fixes
20:33 dlocaus :)
20:35 dlocaus I'm going to work on another project for a while, /me waves
20:35 dlocaus left #perl6
20:35 moritz_ 'later
20:40 TJCRI joined #perl6
20:43 pugs_svn r18829 | gbacon++ | First commit.
20:43 gbacon whee!
20:43 moritz_ gbacon: welcome to Perl 6 development!
20:43 gbacon feels great
20:44 moritz_ I never planned joining the development.. then I wanted to test pugs, and reported a dead link here
20:45 moritz_ somehow I never left that channel ;)
20:45 gbacon I was active on p5p a few years ago
20:45 gbacon I miss it
20:46 gbacon is most kp6 development done on sbcl?
20:46 gbacon clisp builds take a little tweaking
20:47 moritz_ most of kp6 dev is done with the perl5 backend ;)
20:48 pmurias clisp was used at least a bit by avar
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20:49 pmurias but i think sbcl is the most used lisp implementation
20:50 moritz_ but any clisp fixes are welcome as well
20:50 pmurias of course
20:51 gbacon sounds good.. looking forward to it
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20:53 fridim I wish I could help writting perl5 code. Someone would tell me : we need a function that takes this type of argument, and it returns this, or do this work, but I guess it is not that simple :)
20:53 moritz_ fridim: sadly that's true most of the time
20:53 fridim I am very bad at reading other people code
20:53 moritz_ fridim: but you could find simple builtin functions to implement
20:54 moritz_ fridim: for example List.shuffle might be a good starting point
20:54 moritz_ you could implement that in pure perl 6 in the Runtime::Perl6::Array in kp6
20:54 moritz_ or a pure perl random number generator
20:55 fridim oh
20:55 moritz_ or any method from S29 that doesn't look too complicated
20:55 moritz_ http://perlcabal.org/syn/S29.html
20:55 lambdabot Title: S29
20:55 fridim random number generator, using modulo :]
20:56 moritz_ fridim: that's a starting point, yes
20:56 moritz_ it's not very elaborate, but it works
20:56 fridim what do you mean?
20:56 fridim It is not a physical generator, that should work pretty well
20:57 moritz_ r(n) = (a * r(n-1) + b) mod limit
20:57 fridim I am not sure to understand the gaol
20:57 devogon joined #perl6
20:57 moritz_ the goal is to a) advance perl6 implementation and b) make you familiar with the code
20:57 fridim it sounds good
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20:59 ggoebel do the mp6, kp6, onion projects have a collective name?
20:59 lambdabot ggoebel: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
20:59 moritz_ they're all under v6/, so you could kinda use that as a name
20:59 moritz_ usually we just say kp6/mp6
21:01 fridim I saw "clisp". Is perl6 code transformed into lisp code and then compiled?
21:02 moritz_ that's one of the options of kp6, yes
21:02 fridim s/Is perl6 code/Can perl6 code be/
21:02 fridim ok
21:03 moritz_ but the backend is not yet as complete as the perl5 one
21:03 fridim efforts seem to be relatively divided :)
21:03 moritz_ yes :/
21:03 moritz_ but in a volunteer's project everybod hacks what he/she likes
21:04 moritz_ i.e -Ofun
21:04 fridim -OnotReadyForChristmas :]
21:07 syle2 -OMistressForChristmas
21:09 fridim That may be some part of "divide and conquer" principle...
21:09 ggoebel is onion abbreviated as o6 or on6?
21:10 ggoebel or op6
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21:12 pmurias ggoebel: i don't think onion is abbreviated
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21:32 ggoebel what was mp6 originally written in?
21:34 pmurias mp6 was bootstraped by lrep
21:34 pmurias which was written in perl5
21:40 ggoebel so mp6 was a one off from lrep
21:40 ggoebel and kp6 was a one off from mp6
21:40 ggoebel and onion is a one off from kp6?
21:41 moritz_ right
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22:00 pugs_svn r18830 | ggoebel++ | add self
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22:02 ggoebel I've created a v6 page on the developer wiki at https://dev.pugscode.org/wiki/v6 and replaced the broken links to mp6 and kp6 on http://dev.pugscode.org/wiki/ to reference it
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22:23 moritz_ good job, ggoebel++
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