Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2007-11-16

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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07:24 pantteri Hello! Could somebody help me with building pugs? Build with ghc 6.8.1 and svn version of pugs on intel OS X 10.5 fails with:
07:24 pantteri Preprocessing library pugs-HsSyck-0.2...
07:24 pantteri Building pugs-HsSyck-0.2...
07:24 pantteri Data/Yaml/Syck.hsc:27:7:
07:24 pantteri Could not find module `Data.ByteString.Char8':
07:24 pantteri it is a member of package bytestring-0.9.0.1, which is hidden
07:33 moritz_ is that the only error message?
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07:36 pantteri It is the first one.
07:36 pantteri Setup: Error: Could not find module: Data.Yaml.Syck with any suffix: ["hi"]
07:37 pantteri RRegex.hs:44:7:
07:37 pantteri Could not find module `Data.Array':
07:37 pantteri it is a member of package array-0.1.0.0, which is hidden
07:38 moritz_ do you have the perl module YAML::Syck installed?
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07:41 agentzh ls
07:41 moritz_ hi agentzh ;)
07:42 agentzh hey, moritz_
07:42 agentzh "ls" is a mistake :P
07:42 moritz_ I thought so ;)
07:42 agentzh heh
07:42 agentzh just given a talk to my department on XUL::App :)
07:43 moritz_ no tuits for the PCR tracer CGI yet - the script works, but the file permissions need fiddling :/
07:43 moritz_ cool
07:43 agentzh moritz_: i'm going to write a  FF extension for it :)
07:44 agentzh let extensions call user's local perl
07:44 agentzh and local PCR
07:44 moritz_ YaY
07:44 agentzh so no permission fiddling is needed :)
07:44 agentzh with XUL::App, one can write a FF ext using Perl :)
07:44 agentzh http://agentzh.org/misc/slides/xulapp/xulapp.xul
07:45 agentzh XUL::App will soon be on CPAN :)
07:45 moritz_ that slide's killing my firefox :/
07:46 agentzh .........
07:46 agentzh maybe some of your FF extensions hate it ;)
07:46 agentzh one of my friends have similar problems too :)
07:47 agentzh try running your Firefox in safe mode ;)
07:48 agentzh firefox -safe-mode http://agentzh.org/misc/slides/xulapp/xulapp.xul
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07:48 agentzh *has
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07:50 agentzh some FF ext hate ingy's XUL :P
07:54 moritz_ it could be my theme as well
07:55 agentzh heh
07:55 agentzh does safemode work for you?
07:56 moritz_ yes
07:56 moritz_ though it's not that "safe" because the noscript add on is disabled ;)
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07:57 pantteri moritz_,  I do have YAML::Syck installed
07:57 agentzh moritz_: heh
07:58 pantteri What does " it is a member of package bytestring-0.9.0.1, which is hidden" mean - sorry I know almost nothing about Haskell...
07:58 pantteri How can I make that package visible?
07:59 allbery_b add it to the .cabal file
08:00 allbery_b I imagine a bunch of stuff is broken by the recent spinning off of large chunks of base
08:00 pantteri Hey, I'm newbie here! :) Which .cabal file?
08:01 * allbery_b cannot chck quickly, the drive with his pugs setup on it is offline atm
08:03 pantteri Or which version of pugs could I try to build? I'm right now just interested to experiment with perl6.
08:04 allbery_b (I will be honest, I haven't been able to build pugs in months, but I've been using various ghc prereleases.  before the big base split, even.)
08:07 allbery_b I *think*, i fyou're using ghc 6.8.1, you will need to edit Pugs.cabal.in and add to the build-depends line, before the __DEPENDS__ token:  collections -any, parallel -any, bytestring -any
08:07 allbery_b at minimum
08:07 allbery_b might be easier to try it with ghc 6.6.1
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08:08 pantteri Thanks, I'll try first the .cabal magic.
08:09 allbery_b hm, also:  old-locale -any
08:09 allbery_b and possibly change time -any to old-time -any
08:10 allbery_b the base split broke pretty much every haskell-based package in existence :/
08:11 pantteri What was the base split?
08:11 allbery_b shortly before ghc 6.8.1 was released, a lot of stuff that was in the "base" library collection was separated
08:13 allbery_b so for example lists used t be part of base, but are now in collections (along with sets and seq); arrays are in their own package; bytestring, which had only just been added to base for 6.6, is its own package again
08:14 allbery_b basically if you compile and get a "is in package <foo>, which is hidden", add ", foo -any" to Pugs.cabal.in and start over at perl Makefile.PL
08:15 moritz_ ... and commit your changes to the pugs repository ;)
08:15 allbery_b yeh, that too :)
08:17 pantteri OK, I added the packages to Pugs.cabal.in and they even appear in Pugs.cabal but packages are still hidden...
08:17 pantteri I'm sure you will get at least a patch file if I manage to build pugs.
08:18 moritz_ pantteri: do you want access to the pugs svn repository?
08:18 moritz_ a.k.a. "commit bit"
08:18 pantteri readonly
08:18 pantteri hmm.
08:18 pantteri Not sure :)
08:18 moritz_ just /msg me your email address and desired nick name
08:19 pantteri OK. I'll do that if I manage to do anything useful.
08:20 moritz_ alright
08:20 allbery_b like I said, if you get new hidden packages, add them to Pugs.cabal.in and start over
08:20 moritz_ gotta go, bye #perl6
08:20 allbery_b of you get the *same* packages, then we have something deeper
08:20 pantteri allbery_b: The same packages are still problematic
08:22 allbery_b I wonder if you need to "make distclean" or something
08:22 allbery_b unfortunately I can't check (and should try to go back to bed again...)
08:28 pantteri Distclean did not help either. Thank you for help anyway!
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08:31 funktio pantteri: you can also try pugs online here: http://feather.perl6.nl:8080/runpugs/
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08:49 pantteri Hmm. ghc-pkg list tells that bytestring is exposed, not hidden.
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11:08 schlicht hi
11:39 wolverian hm, run.pugscode.org doesn't work
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12:28 spinclad what, again?
12:30 spinclad oh, still, i guess.  Zaba mentioned that yesterday.
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13:24 spinclad [kp6]: MANIFEST is out of date.  is there a best way to regenerate it?
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13:31 spinclad ans: well, 'make manifest' if i had a Makefile already; otherwise see ExtUtils::Manifest.
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14:00 ggoebel How do I update http://www.pugscode.org/kp6.html? I'd like to add a link to https://dev.pugscode.org/wiki/v6...
14:06 ggoebel sorry http://dev.pugscode.org/wiki/v6
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15:18 jrosental when will perl6 come true?
15:21 spinclad by christmas
15:21 spinclad some christmas
15:21 spinclad when it's ready, every day will be christmas
15:27 jrosental LOL
15:27 jrosental i ask because i have been hearing it since SOME years ago.. and still nothing :S
15:41 spinclad oh, hardly nothing... we have three implementations in progress, the specs are about 80% nailed down (with 80% to go...)
15:41 spinclad some people are using them for production work
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16:01 jeffreykegler I read in the synopses that a multi-line comment cannot start a line
16:01 jeffreykegler That is, #[ at the beginning of a line is a syntax error
16:01 jeffreykegler Why is this?
16:02 jeffreykegler I'm writing a parser intended as part of the PGE, and want to imitate Perl 6 comments in its specification files
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16:15 pmurias jeffreykegler: not allowing multiline comments at the start of the line allows commenting code with :s/^/#/
16:16 jeffreykegler Duh.  Of course.
16:17 jeffreykegler thanks
16:21 pmurias jeffreykegler: you are writing a parser for grammars?
16:22 jeffreykegler Yes, a variant of Earley's with LR(0) precomputation
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16:43 ggoebel How do I update http://www.pugscode.org/kp6.html? I'd like to add a link to http://dev.pugscode.org/wiki/v6...
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16:50 dlocaus ggoebel: do you have a commit bit?
16:51 dlocaus ggoebel: ping
16:55 Juerd And if not, do you want a commit bit? :)
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17:05 ggoebel yes
17:07 masak yes, as in "I have a commit bit" or yes, as in "I want one"?
17:07 ggoebel yes I have one
17:07 masak :)
17:09 ggoebel ...so how do we edit the pages on www.pugscode.org?
17:10 masak ggoebel: hold on
17:10 masak checking
17:12 masak docs/feather/pugscode.org/kp6.html
17:14 pugs_svn r18865 | dlo++ | [kp6] Extracted $meta_Value and all its "children" from KindaPerl6/Runtime/Perl5/MOP.pm into Runtime/Perl5/Value.pm
17:14 pugs_svn r18865 | dlo++ |
17:14 pugs_svn r18865 | dlo++ | This also included $::Code, $::List, $::Subset, and $::Mutli.  The above classes have $meta_Value as a parent which
17:14 pugs_svn r18865 | dlo++ | is why they were also included in this move
17:14 pugs_svn r18865 | dlo++ |
17:14 pugs_svn r18865 | dlo++ | I did a "make forcerecompile" and "make test", and all passed.
17:17 ggoebel thanks
17:18 dlocaus fglock: the MOP.pm $::Value & $meta_Value extraction into => Value.pm is complete and passed all tests.
17:18 fglock dlocaus: yay!
17:18 dlocaus fglock: What else do you need done?  (Something simple, preferably, simple refactoring :)
17:19 dlocaus fglock: I still haven't gotten a handle on how kp6 works.
17:20 fglock dlocaus: I've been discussing with nferraz, how to better explain how it works
17:20 dlocaus :)
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17:21 dlocaus I think what would help me the most is a sample "run" though (high level view), that shows what files are responisble for what.
17:21 masak fglock: I, too, would likely benefit from such an explanation
17:21 ludan hi
17:21 masak hi ludan
17:21 dlocaus ludan: hiya
17:22 dlocaus I saw some possible clean up in MOP.pm
17:22 fglock dlocaus: I'll try to start writing out a sample compilation session
17:22 dlocaus Now that we have a nice clean testing process (make test, yields NO errors), I'll see about refactoring some of the code.
17:23 dlocaus cosmetic refactoring of the code.. so to speak.
17:23 fglock I'm refactoring Perl5::Container/Array/Hash
17:25 dlocaus fglock: ok, I'll only be working in MOP.pm for a bit.
17:25 fglock dlocaus: ok!
17:27 pugs_svn r18866 | dlo++ | [kp6] accidently included some personal notes in the commit, I have removed them
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17:54 pugs_svn r18867 | ggoebel++ | re-write to move developer level info to dev.pugscode.org add reference to it
17:56 pugs_svn r18868 | dlo++ | [kp6] minor documentation changes
17:57 ggoebel please check out and fix any errors you find in: http://svn.pugscode.org/pugs/doc​s/feather/pugscode.org/kp6.html
17:59 pugs_svn r18869 | fglock++ | [kp6] t/kp6/65-autovivify-deep.t resolved, but '.exists' is broken
18:07 fglock &
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18:21 pugs_svn r18870 | dlo++ | [kp6] I moved $::Role to near the bottom of the file, because it "interrupted" the reading of $::Object (it just
18:21 pugs_svn r18870 | dlo++ | kinda of appeared in the middle of it).
18:21 pugs_svn r18870 | dlo++ |
18:21 pugs_svn r18870 | dlo++ | I also converted sub meta_isa into "my $meta_isa".  This removes sub meta_isa from the global namespace.  There are
18:21 pugs_svn r18870 | dlo++ | other subroutines created this way, so I have made this one similar.
18:21 pugs_svn r18870 | dlo++ | Note: I could not find "meta_isa" being used anywhere else, and the tests work after this.
18:25 dlocaus fglock: ping?
18:26 dlocaus moritz_: ping?
18:27 dlocaus I'm thinking that $::Signature, $::Signature::Item, $::Array, $::Hash do not belong in Runtime::Perl5::MOP, but belong in another Runtime::Perl5::(Misc???).  Should I move them out?
18:27 dlocaus This would remove the last usage of make_class in MOP.pm (which probably should be moved to the end of Runtime::Perl5::Mop
18:28 dlocaus or should make_class be put in another file?
18:33 dlocaus pmurias: ping?
18:36 pmurias dlocaus: pong
18:37 dlocaus did you see the above discussion?
18:37 dlocaus well, the question I had, but everyone seams to be away?
18:38 pmurias looking into it
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18:41 pmurias dlocaus: the main definitions of those classes live in appropriate Runtime::Perl5::*
18:42 dlocaus right, I am not sure that $::Signature, $::Signature::Item, $::Array, $::Hash
18:42 dlocaus belong in MOP.pm
18:43 dlocaus so, I am thinking about moving them out.  I -believe- that MOP.pm should only consist of $::Object & $::Class.
18:43 pmurias you could try deleting them and check if things work
18:43 dlocaus I am fairly sure that my changes would work, I don't know if they are philoshophically correct.
18:43 dlocaus which is why I am inquring here.
18:46 pugs_svn r18871 | dlo++ | [kp6] minor documentation change
18:46 pmurias i don't think moving them to Misc is a good idea
18:46 dlocaus ok
18:47 pmurias remove them
18:48 dlocaus remove them?
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18:48 pmurias they are only predeclarations
18:48 dlocaus humm ok
18:49 pmurias if they are at the end of the file what's the point of having them?
18:50 dlocaus TODO, reference for future usage...
18:50 dlocaus and they are also required for KP6.
18:51 dlocaus I removed them, and a lot of tests failed.
18:51 ggoebel fyi: I've updated http://dev.pugscode.org/wiki/v6 folded fglock's notes in and cleaned it up a bit. Next step is a "Getting Started" section...
18:51 lambdabot Title: v6 - Pugs - Trac
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18:52 pmurias re TODO, reference for future usage... - they are defined in a different file all such stuff can live there
18:52 pmurias you could at least move the docs to the appropriate files
18:53 pmurias with a short note on which prototypes are precreated left in MOP
18:54 dlocaus oh, do you mean document the code in other files in Runtime::Perl5::* that use make_class?
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18:55 pmurias i mean document Array in Array.pm rather then in MOP
18:56 dlocaus I see what you mean.. humm
18:56 pmurias i get
18:56 pmurias Unknown arguments to TAP::Harness::new (verbosity) at script/run_tests.pl line 162
18:56 pmurias when i run script/run_tests.pl
18:57 dlocaus pmurias: ok, I'll check ito that.
18:58 pmurias updating TAP::Harness
18:59 dlocaus 3.02 is out...
19:00 dlocaus how are you invoking the verbose argument?
19:00 pmurias perl script/run_tests.pl --backend=perl5
19:01 pmurias the error didn't disapear
19:02 dlocaus cool :)
19:02 dlocaus pmurias: I'm updating the documentation
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19:09 pugs_svn r18872 | pmurias++ | [kp6] TAP::Parser now uses verbose instead of verbosity
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19:10 pmurias TAP::Harness has inconsitent documentation
19:13 * pmurias has inconsistent spelling ;)
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19:15 dlocaus They get to it pretty fast, I made a comment about new ( { exec => [] } ) and they got it.
19:17 pmurias that's good
19:17 pugs_svn r18873 | dlo++ | [kp6] Runtime::Perl5::(IO/Gather/List/A​rray/Hash/Kp6Security/Math/Pair) all called make class with ( parent => [ ...
19:17 pugs_svn r18873 | dlo++ | ] ), when it should have been ( parents => [ ... ] ). Note the 's' on parents.
19:17 pugs_svn r18873 | dlo++ |
19:17 pugs_svn r18873 | dlo++ | After this change, all tests still passed.  I have put in a check in MOP.pm that should any arguments come in that
19:17 pugs_svn r18873 | dlo++ | are unrecognized it will drop a warning.
19:19 jMCg Any chance that any of those commits will fix my compile sooner or later ;)
19:19 pmurias jMCg: i doubt it?
19:19 pmurias s/?//
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19:20 pmurias jMCg: you mean your pugs compile
19:20 dlocaus @tell fglock I have updated Runtime::Perl5::(many). FYI.
19:20 lambdabot Consider it noted.
19:20 jMCg pmurias: yes.
19:20 pmurias kp6 is a seperate implementation in perl5
19:21 pmurias in perl6
19:21 pmurias which compiles to perl5
19:22 pmurias kp6 should work fine even if you don't have haskell at all
19:25 pmurias you can try your luck with kp6 if pugs dosn't work for you
19:25 dlocaus http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arity
19:25 lambdabot Title: Arity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
19:25 dlocaus The things I learn from reading KP6 code
19:28 Tene Perl 6 has a .arity method on code blocks, as I recall.
19:28 dlocaus yeah, but I never heard of that word before
19:30 PerlJam We invent our own vocabulary around here, so it's good to look up stuff you've never heard before  :-)
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19:32 pugs_svn r18874 | dlo++ | [kp6] Moved the $::Array documentation from Runtime::Perl5::MOP to Runtime::Perl5::Array
19:32 pugs_svn r18874 | dlo++ | I also updated the documentation
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19:39 dlocaus pmurias: ?
19:39 dlocaus pmurias: ping?
19:40 pmurias pong looking
19:40 dlocaus Hurmm... "someone" (not naming names here), didn't define parents for a lot of classes
19:40 dlocaus or at least the parent isn't defined as of invocation of make_class
19:41 dlocaus so, I put in a check for make_class, but now when I do a "make" test, it scrambles the "output" by the volume of warning messages.
19:41 dlocaus I think the warning is worth while... but Adding an extra 13 lines to every test case is a bit "ouch"
19:42 dlocaus I believe I should commit the code, but this is going to be a lot of messages.
19:42 dlocaus do you have any thoughts?
19:42 dlocaus Do you want me to commit and then you can see for yourself?
19:43 pmurias you ask too hard questions ;)
19:43 * dlocaus snickers
19:43 dlocaus pmurias: is that yes?
19:44 dlocaus its an extra 1092 lines...
19:44 dlocaus of "make test" output
19:44 dlocaus moritz_: ping?
19:45 pmurias dlocaus: i'm not even sure every class needs a parent
19:45 dlocaus A parent was defined for this class, and it doesn't exist
19:45 dlocaus parents => [$::meta_Hash],
19:45 dlocaus ah wait
19:46 dlocaus nope, that doesn't exist
19:46 pmurias a warning for undef parent is ok (or even a die)
19:46 dlocaus if someone said that $::meta_Hash is going to be a parent, I think its reasonable to make sure that parent actually is defiend.
19:46 dlocaus I'll do a warning then.
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19:50 pugs_svn r18875 | dlo++ | [kp6] I have moved the documentation for $::Hash from Runtime::Perl5::MOP into Hash.pm.  I have also updated the
19:50 pugs_svn r18875 | dlo++ | Runtime::Perl5::MOP make_class to raise a warning if a parent is passed, but is undefined.  I am sorry about the
19:50 pugs_svn r18875 | dlo++ | error messages, but this is worthy of a warning.
19:53 pmurias dlocaus: you could fix some of the warnings by changind $meta_something into ::DISPATCH($::something,"HOW")
19:57 dlocaus pmurias: sorry, I had to move my car (street cleaning)
19:57 dlocaus ok
19:58 dlocaus I want to document the other "make_class" items.. then I'll fix the warnings
20:18 pugs_svn r18876 | dlo++ | [kp6] documented a number of files, all tests pass
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20:33 pugs_svn r18877 | dlo++ | [kp6]
20:33 dlocaus pmurias: I've used your suggestion to remove all warnings.
20:33 pugs_svn r18877 | dlo++ | With pmurias's suggestion, ( http://irclog.perlgeek.de/​perl6/2007-11-16#i_145763 )
20:33 pugs_svn r18877 | dlo++ | I fixed the parent(s) being undefined and also did minor touch ups on the
20:33 pugs_svn r18877 | dlo++ | documentation.
20:34 pugs_svn r18877 | dlo++ |
20:34 lambdabot Title: IRC log for #perl6, 2007-11-16
20:34 pugs_svn r18877 | dlo++ | All tests pass and no more warnings are generated.
20:34 dlocaus I'm going to work on another project for a bit.
20:34 dlocaus @karma dlo
20:34 lambdabot dlo has a karma of 179
20:34 pmurias fine
20:34 * dlocaus waves
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