Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2007-11-26

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

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04:55 veritos yo...
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06:11 AzureStone http://blog.yappo.jp/yappo/archives/000542.html?plucoreirc
06:11 lambdabot Title: YappoLogs: おきなわにきてる
06:11 AzureStone 間違えた
06:12 AzureStone すいません、間違えました。
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06:25 tokuhiro_ ?eval "<naoya>"|"</naoya>"
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06:29 Yappo__ AzureStone--
06:45 Tene pugs: "<naoya>"|"</naoya>"
06:45 exp_evalbot OUTPUT[("</naoya>" | "<naoya>")␤]
06:45 tokuhiro_ oh.
06:45 tokuhiro_ is topic wrong?
06:47 Tene the "normal evalbot" seems to be missing.
06:47 Tene That's been in the topic for a long time.
06:47 tokuhiro_ oh
06:47 Tene I guess exp_evalbot gets used a bit more than the "normal" evalbot these days.
06:47 Tene kp6: "<naoya>"|"</naoya>"
06:47 exp_evalbot r18910: OUTPUT[Can't locate object method "new" via package "IO::Handle" at script/kp6 line 340, <> line 1.␤]
06:49 tokuhiro_ ok.thanks.
06:50 Tene np
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14:46 lichtkind is there a errelse?
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15:12 fglock lichtkind: norr :)
15:14 lichtkind fglock: thanks
15:14 lichtkind fglock:  you mean not yet :)
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15:14 ebassi would be nice having a "orelse" - if (eat_your_soup()) { } orelse { go_to_your_bedroom() }
15:15 lichtkind i dont understand sense of orelse since the right block is ony executed if the left has no result why pass then the result over?
15:16 lichtkind fglock: my perl 6 tutorial has since 2 weeks also chapter about kp6, is ther eanything you want to have mentioned?
15:16 fglock lichtkind: have a link?
15:16 lichtkind its german either :)
15:17 lichtkind fglock: http://wiki.perl-community.de/bin/view/Wissensbasis/Perl6TutorialKapitel1#kp6
15:17 lambdabot Title: PerlCommunityWiki � Wissensbasis � Perl6TutorialKapitel1, http://tinyurl.com/2qeq2v
15:17 fglock looking
15:19 lichtkind you can german?
15:19 lichtkind btw the perlfoundation wiki seems buggy
15:19 lichtkind i dont get any affirmation mail
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15:21 fglock lichtkind: I read very slowly and I miss some words, but it looks ok :)
15:22 fglock lichtkind: you should also mention v6.pm, which is a separate project
15:22 lichtkind tell me more
15:22 fglock v6.pm is a CPAN module (look for "v6"),
15:22 fglock it is a Perl 6-in-Perl 5
15:23 fglock it is split in 2 modules: Pugs::Compiler::Rule, and Pugs::Compiler::Perl6
15:23 fglock PCR is the grammar engine
15:24 fglock the v6 runtime uses Moose and other Perl 5 modules, in order to emulate Perl 6 behaviour
15:25 lichtkind fglock:  right i saw that in cpan last week
15:30 lichtkind fglock:  http://wiki.perl-community.de/bin/view/Wissensbasis/Perl6TutorialKapitel1#v6
15:30 lambdabot Title: PerlCommunityWiki � Wissensbasis � Perl6TutorialKapitel1, http://tinyurl.com/2qeq2v
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15:30 fglock :)
15:31 lichtkind fglock:  im quick :)
15:34 fglock kp6: my $a; say exists($a[1]); say defined($a); $a[1]=42; say exists($a[1]); say defined($a);
15:34 exp_evalbot r18914: OUTPUT[Can't locate object method "new" via package "IO::Handle" at script/kp6 line 340, <> line 1.␤]
15:38 fglock kp6 now autovivifies structures lazily
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15:46 lichtkind pugs: my $a = sub { say @$_}; $a(2,3);
15:46 exp_evalbot OUTPUT[*** No compatible multi variant found: "$a"␤    at /tmp/hE7hyuOH2k line 1, column 25-32␤]
15:47 lichtkind pugs: my $a = sub { say @$_}; $a(3);
15:47 exp_evalbot OUTPUT[3␤]
15:47 lichtkind strange why blocks can only be called with one parameter
15:47 lichtkind is that a bug or intentional?
15:50 fglock I think it's a default-signature bug
15:50 fglock pugs: my &a := { say $^a,$^b }; a(2,3);
15:50 exp_evalbot OUTPUT[23␤]
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15:54 lichtkind fglock: are you shure its not intention?
15:57 lichtkind $a(2,3); doest works but $a((2,3)); does
15:59 fglock pugs: sub a { say @_ }; a(2,3);
15:59 exp_evalbot OUTPUT[23␤]
16:00 fglock pugs: my &a := { say @_ }; a(2,3);
16:00 exp_evalbot OUTPUT[*** No compatible multi variant found: "&a"␤    at /tmp/mNaRxjXFfr line 1, column 22-28␤]
16:01 fglock it does look like a compiler error
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16:09 lichtkind fglock: maybe but blocks hast only $_ no @_ maybe it has something to do with
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16:27 fglock lichtkind: yes, that's a possible explanation
16:32 moritz_ re
16:33 fglock kp6: say "IO::Handle error"
16:33 exp_evalbot r18914: OUTPUT[Can't locate object method "new" via package "IO::Handle" at script/kp6 line 340, <> line 1.␤]
16:34 perlygatekeeper perlbot port 25
16:34 perlbot port 25: smtp - Simple Mail Transfer
16:34 perlygatekeeper perlbot port 465
16:34 perlygatekeeper damn
16:34 perlygatekeeper what's the port number for mail delivery
16:35 moritz_ 25
16:36 perlygatekeeper no, secure
16:36 perlygatekeeper 465 and 587
16:36 perlygatekeeper but thanks
16:37 moritz_ grep -i smtp /etc/services # 4 t w!
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18:25 fglock kp6: say (($A::a[1])[2]).exists; say defined($A::a); ($A::a[1])[2]=42; say exists(($A::a[1])[2]); say defined($A::a);
18:25 exp_evalbot r18916: OUTPUT[Can't locate object method "new" via package "IO::Handle" at script/kp6 line 340, <> line 1.␤]
18:26 Tene kp6: 1;
18:26 exp_evalbot r18916: OUTPUT[Can't locate object method "new" via package "IO::Handle" at script/kp6 line 340, <> line 1.␤]
18:27 moritz_ is script/kp6 still the recommended way to eval kp6 code?
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18:30 pmurias moritz_: unless you want to brew your one interface i would guess
18:31 fglock pmurias: all kp6 autovivification tests pass :)
18:32 pmurias fglock: that's good
18:34 pmurias neither IO::Handle nor IO::File seem to be requiter/used by script/kp6
18:35 pmurias used i the sense of the keyword
18:35 bbkr_ what does '-->' operator do in p6? plenty of those are used in http://svn.pugscode.org/pugs/src/perl6/STD.pm but i cannot find it in Synopses
18:36 bbkr_ for example "token infix:sym<=:=> ( --> Chaining) { <sym> {*} }"
18:36 moritz_ I think that's "returns an object of type $type"
18:37 moritz_ it's in Syntax.pod for example
18:37 bbkr_ thanks, that makes sense, Chaining is a class in this file
18:37 fglock pmurias: I updated script/kp6 to use IO::*
18:38 fglock kp6: 1
18:38 exp_evalbot r18917: OUTPUT[Can't locate object method "new" via package "IO::Handle" at script/kp6 line 340, <> line 1.␤]
18:38 pmurias fglock: where are they required at?
18:39 fglock by line 340, it selects between STDOUT or a filename for output
18:39 fglock kp6: 1
18:39 exp_evalbot r18918: OUTPUT[no method 'say' in Class 'Str'␤ at compiled/perl5-kp6-mp6/lib/KindaPerl6/Runtime/Perl5/MOP.pm line 345␤    KindaPerl6::Runtime::Perl5::MOP::__ANON__('HASH(0x8791460)', 'say') called at compiled/perl5-kp6-mp6/lib/KindaPerl6/Runtime/Perl5/MOP.pm line 169␤
18:39 exp_evalbot ..main::DISPATCH('HASH(0x8791460)', 'say') called at - line 17␤]
18:39 fglock kp6: say 1
18:39 exp_evalbot r18918: OUTPUT[1␤]
18:39 fglock it's back :)
18:39 fglock kp6: say (($A::a[1])[2]).exists; say defined($A::a); ($A::a[1])[2]=42; say exists(($A::a[1])[2]); say defined($A::a);
18:39 exp_evalbot r18918: OUTPUT[0␤0␤1␤1␤]
18:40 * pmurias laments the death of svnbot
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18:41 pmurias fglock: autovivifications looks like an advanced feature ;)
18:41 fglock kp6: say ++($A::a);
18:41 exp_evalbot r18918: OUTPUT[1␤]
18:42 fglock kp6: say ++($A::a); $A::a[1];
18:42 exp_evalbot r18918: OUTPUT[no method 'INDEX' in Class 'Int'␤ at compiled/perl5-kp6-mp6/lib/KindaPerl6/Runtime/Perl5/MOP.pm line 345␤  KindaPerl6::Runtime::Perl5::MOP::__ANON__('HASH(0x87953d0)', 'INDEX', 'HASH(0x87973d8)') called at compiled/perl5-kp6-mp6/lib/KindaPerl6/Runtime/Perl5/MOP.pm line 169␤
18:42 exp_evalbot ..main::DISPATCH('HASH(0x87953d0)', 'INDEX', 'HASH(0x87973d8)') called at c...]
18:42 pmurias say $undefine_var;
18:42 pmurias kp6: say $undefine_var;
18:42 exp_evalbot r18918: OUTPUT[ValueProxy␤]
18:42 fglock after autovivification, $A::a can no longer be an array
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18:42 pugs_svn r18914 | fglock++ | [kp6-perl5] s/STORE/BIND/
18:42 pugs_svn r18915 | fglock++ | [kp6-perl5] tighter rule for emitting "self"
18:42 pugs_svn r18916 | fglock++ | [kp6] t/todo/64-autovivify-global.t resolved;
18:42 pugs_svn r18916 | fglock++ | - 56-proto-sym.t now fails, but this seems to be due to an older bug
18:42 pugs_svn r18917 | fglock++ | [kp6] TODO: autovivification is marked as resolved
18:42 pugs_svn r18918 | fglock++ | [kp6] script/kp6 - added missing 'use'
18:43 * pmurias cheers the pugs_svn resurection
18:44 fglock oops - autovivification killed strictness
18:45 moritz_ that's not so good ;)
18:46 pmurias we only had an illusion of strictness anyway
18:46 pmurias ;)
18:47 pmurias say $undefined_var.Str();
18:47 pmurias kp6: say $undefined_var.Str();
18:47 exp_evalbot r18918: OUTPUT[ValueProxy␤]
18:47 pmurias say $undefined_var.isa("Undef");
18:47 pugs_svn r18919 | fglock++ | [kp6] added "strictness" to TODO
18:48 moritz_ kp6: say $undefined_var.isa("Undef");
18:48 exp_evalbot r18919: OUTPUT[1␤]
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18:52 pmurias say $undefined_var.isa("Undef");
18:56 fglock hmm - $undefined_var.Str() is a problem
18:57 moritz_ kp6: say $undef_var
18:57 exp_evalbot r18919: OUTPUT[ValueProxy␤]
18:58 pmurias fglock: does the new construct the object properly
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18:58 fglock the object is ok, but it looks like a prototype object, which stringigfies to the class name
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19:04 lichtkind is there any known problem with the TPF wiki?
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19:07 pmurias having a new method which returns the depends on the internal object format dosn't seem "clean"
19:08 lichtkind has anybody here an account in the TPF wiki?
19:09 pmurias luring people with simpler questions first? ;)
19:09 moritz_ ;)
19:10 fglock pugs: my $a = ::Undef.new; say $a
19:10 exp_evalbot OUTPUT[<obj:Undef>␤]
19:11 fglock doesn't look correct either
19:12 fglock pugs: my $a = ::Undef.new; say $a.Str
19:12 exp_evalbot OUTPUT[*** No such method in class Undef: "&Str"␤    at /tmp/S3zMDgqLC2 line 1, column 26 - line 2, column 1␤]
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19:18 pmurias fglock: ValueProxy basicly is a prototype object with with _parent_container
19:20 pmurias kp6: ::Int.isa("Undef")
19:20 exp_evalbot r18919: OUTPUT[syntax error at position 0, line 1 column 0:␤::Int.isa("Undef"␤^ HERE␤]
19:20 fglock it's not a prototype object, it's an instance - but it's "undefined" like a prototype object is
19:20 pmurias fglock: i how it is represented in kp6
19:20 pmurias * i mean
19:21 pmurias %{ $_[0] }
19:21 pmurias clones the prototype
19:21 fglock hmm - let me try something here
19:22 pmurias sure
19:32 pmurias ::Foo is the protoobject for the Foo class
19:32 fglock kp6: say undef
19:32 exp_evalbot r18919: OUTPUT[␤]
19:32 pmurias ?
19:32 fglock undef stringifies correctly
19:33 moritz_ kp6: print undef
19:33 exp_evalbot r18919: OUTPUT[Undef]
19:33 moritz_ ah, wait
19:33 moritz_ no output = evaled again with say ( ($expr).perl) around it
19:34 pmurias moritz_: that's a hack
19:34 moritz_ pmurias: yes :)
19:34 pmurias bad moritz_ ;)
19:34 moritz_ pmurias: but a fairly successfull one, for those who forget to put a 'say' or 'print' in their expression
19:35 moritz_ pmurias: the bad thing is that it still says OUTPUT[...]
19:35 pmurias kp6: print undef;say "-----";
19:35 exp_evalbot r18919: OUTPUT[Undef-----␤]
19:35 pmurias kp6: say undef;say "-----";
19:35 exp_evalbot r18919: OUTPUT[␤-----␤]
19:36 moritz_ ouch
19:37 fglock hmm - ValueProxy can't "be" an Undef, because the Container object can be assigned to
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19:38 pmurias fglock: i'm amazed prototype objects get stringifed as the names of their classes
19:39 fglock pmurias: this is specced, afaik
19:39 pmurias yes
19:39 pmurias is there any magic which makes them not inherit the Str method from their respective class?
19:40 fglock they do inherit, but the dispatcher has a special case to ignore the default .Str
19:40 pmurias seen it
19:41 pmurias that conflicts with undef not having a value
19:41 fglock ValueProxy will need some extra magic for .Str, .isa and such
19:41 fglock Undef has the same problems, but it didn't show before
19:44 pmurias the internal object format should be more encapsualted
19:44 fglock should we use P6Opaque ?
19:46 pmurias looking at what it does
19:47 pmurias don't know
19:48 fglock I think it's ok to have special cases for Container and Undef
19:48 jisom joined #perl6
19:48 fglock they are too different from plain objects
19:51 pmurias fglock: ok
19:53 pmurias but for example Hash.new also depends on the internal object format
19:53 pmurias =head1 Construction and Initialization
19:53 pmurias in S12
19:54 pmurias looks like the way we should be creating objects
19:54 fglock pmurias: I'll read it again..
19:54 fglock home &
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20:33 fglock b
20:39 rafl obra: could mikem help you?
20:41 obra rafl: I passed the comment on to minion but hadn't heard back
20:41 obra ok. alex says he hasn't poked mike yet.
20:41 obra lame. ;)
20:44 rafl i see
20:44 obra I've just prodded him to deal
20:44 rafl I have some paid hours to work on it this week
20:45 rafl so I'll take care about it if it isn't resolved already
20:46 obra cool! thanks
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21:03 pmurias class object in the synopsis fragment refers to the prototype?
21:11 pmurias :q
21:11 pmurias typo
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23:00 NoNaME Hi
23:01 moritz_ hi
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23:09 pugs_svn r18920 | dlo++ | [kp6] Test updated to actually fail, and not produce a bad 'successful' output
23:17 fglock joined #perl6
23:18 fglock pmurias: yes, it seems class-object is the prototype, and actual-class-object is the metaclass
23:41 jjore-m joined #perl6
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23:53 pugs_svn r18921 | fglock++ | [kp6-perl5] fixed ValueProxy.Str and .isa; ValueProxy is now "transparent"
23:53 pugs_svn r18921 | fglock++ | - 46-hash-item-bind.t fails; moved to t/todo
23:56 fglock kp6: my $a; say $a
23:56 exp_evalbot r18921: OUTPUT[␤]

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