Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2007-12-03

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

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07:41 spinclad good moosetime(), all
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12:02 fglock kp6 works fine with perl5.10.0-RC2 :)
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12:20 elmex hmm, whats up with perl6 at the moment? is there still lots of work going into PUGS? is there an efford for the final implementation ontop of parrot?
12:42 moritz_ elmex: currently the most effort is on kp6 and parrot
12:42 elmex kp6? oh
12:44 elmex ah, ok, got it, thanks for the info
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13:04 moritz_ nqp: say("hi");
13:04 exp_evalbot OUTPUT[src/pmc_freeze.c:1254: failed assertion 'must_have_seen'␤Backtrace - Obtained 19 stack frames (max trace depth is 32).␤  Parrot_print_backtrace␤    Parrot_confess␤      (unknown)␤        (unknown)␤          (unknown)␤            (unknown)␤              Parrot_thaw␤
13:04 exp_evalbot ..PackFile_Constant_unpack_pmc␤                  PackFile_Con...
13:04 moritz_ woops
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13:46 pugs_svn r19007 | fglock++ | [kp6] - remove Data::Dump::Streamer dependency;
13:46 pugs_svn r19007 | fglock++ | - moved t/kp6/internals to t/kp6-internals - Coro.pm is now really optional
13:56 pugs_svn r19008 | fglock++ | [kp6-kp6] updated t-bootstrap/02-grammar.t
14:01 moritz_ fglock: should t-bootstrap/02-grammar.t pass?
14:01 fglock moritz_: not yet, I'm adding failing tests as the previous ones get fixed
14:04 moritz_ fglock: ok... only the first test passes for me
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14:10 pugs_svn r19009 | fglock++ | [kp6-kp6] one more test passes, but then "Segmentation fault"
14:10 fglock moritz_: I'm now testing with both 5.8.8 and 5.10.0rc2
14:11 fglock 5.10 has better error handling: "EVAL without pos change exceeded limit in regex at compiled/perl5-kp6-kp6/lib/​KindaPerl6/Grammar/Term.pm line 890."
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16:08 pugs_svn r19010 | fglock++ | [kp6-perl5] use an alternate hack for shortcircuiting
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16:47 pmurias fglock: is it easier for you to have the 02-grammar in p5 than in p6?
16:47 fglock pmurias: yes, because I need it to be executed by kp6-kp6, which can't compile yet
16:48 pmurias it needs to be executed by kp6
16:49 pmurias s/needs/can
16:49 pmurias s/executed/compiled/
16:49 pmurias see t-bootstrap/02-grammar.p6
16:49 fglock hmm - that's right
16:50 pmurias by easier i meant more convenient (i'm considering porting the changes to 02-grammar.p6)
16:51 fglock trying out...
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16:54 fglock pmurias: yes, that works :)
16:55 pmurias port the changes?
16:55 jwest-- is there any real use of asm anymore?
16:56 moritz_ jwest--: are you talking about parrot assembler?
16:56 moritz_ I think it's mostly replaced by PIR these days
16:57 jwest-- not parrot
16:57 jwest-- just asm in general
16:57 jwest-- inline asm
16:58 moritz_ in what?
16:58 moritz_ the linux kernel uses inline ASM
16:58 jwest-- a lot?
16:59 moritz_ jwest--: not really
16:59 fglock pmurias: sure
16:59 moritz_ a far friend of mine wrote a chess program, he used inline asm for some heavily used code
17:00 jwest-- whycouldnt he have done that in c
17:00 jwest-- or lisp or something
17:00 pugs_svn r19011 | fglock++ | [kp6-perl5rx] minor fix in Match.perl
17:01 moritz_ jwest--: because asm can be faster, in some cases
17:02 moritz_ the two reasons for inline assembler are 1) speed 2) low level access
17:03 pmurias one probably also uses assembler for writing shellcode
17:04 jwest-- i dont mind seeing a lot of assembly code
17:04 jwest-- really
17:04 fglock pmurias: nevermind updating, I'll just use 02-grammar.p6 instead
17:04 jwest-- just that i dont see it
17:08 pmurias fglock: updated
17:08 pugs_svn r19012 | pmurias++ | [kp6] brought 02-grammar.p6 up to date with the p5 version
17:08 pugs_svn r19012 | pmurias++ | cosmetic change in Test
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17:09 pmurias jwest--: you can always ask gcc to supply you with some/lots of with an appropriate compiler flag
17:10 jwest-- heh
17:11 pugs_svn r19013 | fglock++ | [kp6-kp6] added instructions to t-bootstrap/02-grammar.p6; removed Perl 5 version
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17:13 * dlocaus cries
17:13 dlocaus my ubuntu boot disk crashed.
17:14 pmurias dlocaus: got to use windows now?
17:14 dlocaus I have 2 machines.
17:15 dlocaus I'm on the windows machine right now, the linux box is still searching for "harddisks and other hardware"
17:15 dlocaus I see the HD light go on once in a while though.
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17:25 pmurias fglock: it might be good to remove the "eval '$var'" odity
17:25 fglock pmurias: I don't think it works without that
17:25 fglock it interpolates too early
17:32 pmurias fglock: i don't think the eval can help anything
17:32 pmurias it might me able to hide errors
17:33 pmurias if an undeclared lexical variable is used
17:35 pmurias giving a Segfault here
17:35 fglock fixed :)
17:35 pugs_svn r19014 | fglock++ | [kp6-perl5rx] fixed a segfault (uninitialized sub-regex)
17:36 moritz_ are BEGIN blocks in kp6 really executed at compile time?
17:37 pmurias moritz_: yes
17:37 pmurias at parse time exactly
17:38 moritz_ so a program 'BEGIN { say "foo" }' prints something at compile time, and does nothing at execution time?
17:38 moritz_ that's cool, actually ;)
17:40 pugs_svn r19015 | fglock++ | [kp6-kp6] t-bootstrap/02-grammar.p6 - fixed test #4
17:40 gaal BEGIN { $compilation_time = time }, yes.
17:42 pmurias fglock: i think the eval can only introduce bugs by hiding the undeclared variable error
17:43 pmurias s/introduce/hide/
17:43 fglock pmurias: can you test without the eval? there are some old regex-recursion tests in misc/
17:43 fglock not sure if they still run
17:44 pmurias fglock: p6 tests?
17:44 gaal or should I say, my $parsed_at = BEGIN { time };
17:45 pugs_svn r19016 | fglock++ | [kp6] warn() returns a Perl 6 value
17:46 fglock moritz_: $ perl script/kp6 -Cperl5 -e ' BEGIN { warn "foo" } ' > compiled.pl
17:47 moritz_ fglock: nice ;)
17:48 fglock pmurias: misc/token-test-recurse2.pl and others, it's assorted Perl 6 or Perl 5
17:52 pugs_svn r19017 | fglock++ | [kp6-kp6] one more test
17:59 pugs_svn r19018 | pmurias++ | [kp6] the eval makes a difference here dunno why
18:00 pmurias fglock: please check the file i commited
18:00 fglock k
18:00 pmurias eval '$var' and $var behave differently
18:05 fglock I don't know - how about asking in the p5p irc?
18:06 fglock I should add more "why" docs in my code
18:06 moritz_ well, eval '$var' returns the content of $var, while eval $var evals it, and returns the result
18:07 moritz_ or did I miss something?
18:07 pmurias moritz_: it's eval '$var' versus $var
18:07 moritz_ pmurias: uhm, ok
18:07 moritz_ context?
18:08 moritz_ maybe eval '$var' always forces scalar context
18:10 pmurias eval '$var' is undef the first time
18:10 [particle] pugs: say +"123.45"
18:10 exp_evalbot OUTPUT[123.45␤]
18:11 pmurias fglock: the #p5p channel?
18:11 fglock yes
18:11 pmurias i'm to tired now (long day of school)
18:12 pmurias visiting a friend&
18:12 fglock pmurias: np :)
18:13 [particle] pugs: @a = (1,2,3); say +@a;
18:13 exp_evalbot OUTPUT[*** ␤    Unexpected " ="␤    expecting "::"␤    Variable "@a" requires predeclaration or explicit package name␤    at /tmp/orYlEN22Wo line 1, column 3␤]
18:13 [particle] pugs: my @a = (1,2,3); say +@a;
18:13 exp_evalbot OUTPUT[3␤]
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18:24 pugs_svn r19019 | fglock++ | [kp6-kp6] fixed Match lookup
18:27 pugs_svn r19020 | fglock++ | [kp6-kp6] t-bootstrap/02-grammar.p6 - one more test
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18:41 pugs_svn r19021 | pmurias++ | [kp6] test descriptions
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18:53 pugs_svn r19022 | fglock++ | [kp6-kp6] fixed Class name conflicts
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19:13 pugs_svn r19023 | fglock++ | [kp6] t-bootstrap/02-grammar.p6 added failing test
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19:27 fglock &
19:27 [particle] |
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20:21 dlocaus my (linux) HD died, I'll be out for a while... /cries
20:21 * dlocaus waves
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23:13 mncharity pugs: my B::x = 3;
23:13 exp_evalbot OUTPUT[*** ␤    Unexpected "="␤    expecting ":" or "("␤    at /tmp/UFCQiZVg9H line 1, column 9␤]
23:15 mncharity I couldn't remember, and was randomly curious, whether one can lexically scope variable names in non-local packages.
23:15 mncharity pugs: package A {} my A::x = 3;
23:15 exp_evalbot OUTPUT[*** ␤    Unexpected "="␤    expecting ":" or "("␤    at /tmp/8TvG9zWneX line 1, column 22␤]
23:15 mncharity pugs: package A {}; my A::x = 3;
23:15 exp_evalbot OUTPUT[*** ␤    Unexpected "="␤    expecting ":" or "("␤    at /tmp/yXn4aIuKUc line 1, column 23␤]
23:17 moritz_ mncharity: it's "module" in p6, not "package" (iirc)
23:17 moritz_ pugs: module a {}; my $A::x=3; say $A::x;
23:17 exp_evalbot OUTPUT[*** ␤    Unexpected "::x"␤    expecting word character, "?", "!", trait, "=", infix assignment, term postfix or operator␤    at /tmp/YTMLdVNNrD line 1, column 19␤]
23:18 moritz_ pugs: module a { my $x}; say $a::x;
23:18 exp_evalbot OUTPUT[␤]
23:18 moritz_ pugs: module a { my $x = 3 }; say $a::x;
23:18 exp_evalbot OUTPUT[␤]
23:18 TimToady pugs: module a { our $x = 3 }; say $a::x
23:18 exp_evalbot OUTPUT[␤]
23:18 mncharity I was thinking about namespaces, and wondered whether pugs could have an exposed api, where variable lookup is handled by a macro P6MOP::lookup(name) -> <whatever it is names are bound to>.  Then users could lexically override name resolution.
23:19 moritz_ that would allow all sort of hacks ;)
23:19 mncharity indeed :D
23:20 TimToady see S10:84
23:20 mncharity looking...
23:21 mncharity is there a copy of S10 somewhere with line numbers?  :)
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23:23 moritz_ mncharity: take a look at irc.pugscode.org
23:23 moritz_ mncharity: there the S10:84 directly links to the correct line ;)
23:24 moritz_ thanks to agentzh++ who implemented the line anchors in the HTML files
23:25 mncharity ooo, shiny
23:32 [particle] pugs: say 7 +& +^1;
23:32 exp_evalbot OUTPUT[6␤]
23:34 moritz_ that syntax looks plain scary
23:35 moritz_ probably because the operation is scary as well ;)
23:35 TimToady we're trying to punish bit twiddlers
23:35 moritz_ whip the bit twiddlers!
23:35 moritz_ but I'm sure it'll allow great obfus
23:36 TimToady "I feel bit-slapped!"
23:36 mncharity what do we have for a p6 wiki?  http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index.cgi ?
23:36 lambdabot Title: Perl 6 / Perl 6
23:37 mncharity http://perl.net.au/wiki/Perl_6  http://perl6.cz/wiki/Perl_6_and_Parrot_links
23:37 lambdabot Title: Perl 6 - PerlNet
23:39 TimToady there's also http://dev.pugscode.org/wiki/
23:39 lambdabot Title: Pugs - Trac
23:41 TimToady and http://www.perlfoundation.org/parrot/index.cgi
23:41 lambdabot Title: Parrot / Parrot
23:45 TimToady pugs: say 7 +& -2
23:45 exp_evalbot OUTPUT[6␤]
23:46 [particle] lovely
23:46 TimToady I suppose we could mention that Int assumes 2's complement arithmetic.
23:50 [particle] good idea.
23:55 mncharity I dropped the links as http://perl.net.au/wiki/Perl_6#Wikis  (perl.net.au, unlike perfoundation.org, didn't require me to remember or create an account)
23:55 lambdabot Title: Perl 6 - PerlNet
23:57 mncharity the one liner seems to be "perl.net.au is active, perlfoundation is official, pugscode is for pugs, perlfoundation.org/parrot/ is for parrot, and perl6.cz has some nice links".

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