Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2007-12-12

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

| Channels | #perl6 index | Today | | Search | Google Search | Plain-Text | summary

All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:05 theorb joined #perl6
00:18 ebassi joined #perl6
00:29 Limbic_Region salutations all
00:32 Auzon Hi.
00:46 khisanth_ joined #perl6
01:11 funktio joined #perl6
01:35 jferrero joined #perl6
01:37 njbartlett joined #perl6
01:48 zakame joined #perl6
02:14 Torment joined #perl6
02:16 Limbic_Region joined #perl6
02:40 ferreira left #perl6
02:49 jjore-m joined #perl6
03:05 jonathanturner left #perl6
04:03 elmex_ joined #perl6
05:12 theorbtwo joined #perl6
05:29 amnesiac joined #perl6
05:43 Psyche^ joined #perl6
06:02 ispy_ joined #perl6
06:03 Ashizawa joined #perl6
06:18 thoughtp1lice joined #perl6
06:28 obra seen fglock
06:28 justatheory joined #perl6
06:28 moritz_ @seen fglock
06:28 lambdabot I saw fglock leaving #perl6 10h 49m 59s ago, and .
06:40 jisom joined #perl6
06:57 ispy_ left #perl6
07:23 reltuk joined #perl6
08:24 Aankhen`` joined #perl6
08:26 franck___ joined #perl6
08:34 devogon joined #perl6
09:12 mattz joined #perl6
09:23 xaxxon joined #perl6
09:23 xaxxon is it done yet?
09:23 xaxxon duke perl6'em forever
09:38 BinGOs joined #perl6
09:40 clkao o/win 4
09:41 drrho joined #perl6
10:35 jferrero joined #perl6
10:58 chris2 joined #perl6
11:16 cmarcelo joined #perl6
11:18 Pox joined #perl6
11:19 * Pox wants his line noise back
11:19 * moritz_ injects some grey noise into #perl6
11:19 * Pox basks
11:19 Pox but seriously, perl6 is way too easy to read for non-adepts
11:20 moritz_ you can do nice obfuscation with hyperops
11:20 Pox hehe
11:21 Pox even though i have pugs installed
11:21 Pox i'm going to use evalbot
11:21 Pox to be annoying
11:21 Pox ?eval for <a b c> -> $a { say $a }
11:21 Pox wait
11:21 Pox is it in here?
11:21 Pox or am i a noob?
11:21 moritz_ @list>>.method() takes some time to get used to
11:21 lambdabot Unknown command, try @list
11:21 moritz_ Pox: the original evalbot is gone, the new one has a different syntax
11:21 Pox ah right
11:21 Pox so i'm a noob :P
11:22 moritz_ pugs: say "hi, Pox (aka noob;-)"
11:22 exp_evalbot OUTPUT[hi, Pox (aka noob;-)␤]
11:22 Pox pugs: eval for <a b c> -> $a { say $a }
11:22 exp_evalbot OUTPUT[*** ␤    Unexpected "->"␤    expecting operator␤    at /tmp/pmaQwhULdc line 1, column 18␤]
11:22 Pox woo i suck
11:23 moritz_ no need for an eval there
11:23 moritz_ pugs: for <a b c> -> $a { say $a }
11:23 exp_evalbot OUTPUT[a␤b␤c␤]
11:23 Pox yeah
11:23 Pox i kinda left the eval from the ?eval
11:23 Pox i even suck at IRC
11:23 Pox hmm
11:24 moritz_ are you a vacuum cleaner?
11:24 Pox ...yes?
11:24 moritz_ that explains why you suck so much
11:25 Pox OH
11:25 Pox LOL
11:25 Pox pugs: say "lo" x 10 ~ "l";
11:25 exp_evalbot OUTPUT[lolololololololololol␤]
11:25 Pox that string multiplication thing is whacky
11:25 moritz_ same as in p5
11:25 Pox really!?
11:26 moritz_ only that you use xx in p6 for lists
11:26 moritz_ while you'd use ($item) x $times in p5 to generate a list
11:26 Pox eoe
11:26 Pox *wow
11:26 Pox didn't know that was in perl5
11:26 moritz_ eval: print "foo" x 2
11:26 Pox then again, i probably don't use half of perl5
11:26 * moritz_ though buubot works like that
11:27 ferreira joined #perl6
11:28 Pox pugs: say [*] (2,3)
11:28 exp_evalbot OUTPUT[6␤]
11:29 Pox weird syntax is great
11:29 njbartlett joined #perl6
11:29 Pox pugs: say [**] (2,2,2,2) # 2 tetrate 4
11:29 exp_evalbot OUTPUT[65536␤]
11:29 Pox hmmk
11:30 Pox i need sleep
11:30 Pox long day of perl hacking tomorrow
11:46 macae joined #perl6
11:48 HiTech69 joined #perl6
11:56 beejeebus joined #perl6
12:00 fglock_ joined #perl6
12:11 JarJarBinks joined #perl6
12:12 chris2 joined #perl6
12:20 fglock @tell [particle] re meeting in #parrot yesterday, i couldn't connect from home :(
12:20 lambdabot Consider it noted.
12:23 IllvilJa joined #perl6
12:23 chris2 joined #perl6
12:50 beejeebus left #perl6
12:59 [particle] np, fglock
12:59 lambdabot [particle]: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
13:02 bwinkler joined #perl6
13:02 ispy_ joined #perl6
13:30 iblechbot joined #perl6
13:47 franck___ joined #perl6
13:48 sproingie joined #perl6
14:07 ferreira the micro-article on boolean operators is published: http://www.oreillynet.com/onlamp/blog/2007/12/yet_another_perl_6_operator_bo.html
14:07 lambdabot Title: Yet Another Perl 6 Operator: Boolean Operators - O&#039;Reilly ONLamp Blog, http://tinyurl.com/27rrzs
14:07 hanekomu joined #perl6
14:07 ferreira it made me wonder about the tests for boolean operators
14:08 ferreira I was thinking about how ? (coertion to bool) was tested: http://svn.pugscode.org/pugs/t/operators/context_forcers.t
14:08 ferreira it should not use "ok" but "is $bool_exp, True" and "is $bool_exp, False"
14:09 moritz_ aye
14:09 moritz_ since ok() forces boolean context itself
14:09 moritz_ pugs: say 1 == True
14:09 exp_evalbot OUTPUT[1␤]
14:10 moritz_ pugs: say 1 eq True
14:10 exp_evalbot OUTPUT[1␤]
14:10 moritz_ erm
14:10 ferreira moritz_: yep. would  you and everyone else agree with that? and think this patch is sane? http://paste.scsys.co.uk/paste
14:10 moritz_ ferreira: give us the real URL please ;)
14:10 ferreira moritz_: that last one is strange
14:11 ferreira sorry: http://scsys.co.uk:8001/11414
14:11 ispy_ moritz_: so how does this 'examples' directory in pugs work?  can we just submit different scripts ( examples ) to it?
14:11 moritz_ ispy_: yes, you can
14:12 moritz_ ispy_: they should work with pugs (but that's no "hard" requirement)
14:12 ferreira moritz: the culprit is the convertion from bool to string
14:12 ispy_ moritz_: excellent, I've been writing a lot of 50 liners or so for various odds and ends, figured they might be helpful.
14:12 ferreira pugs: say ~True
14:12 exp_evalbot OUTPUT[1␤]
14:12 ferreira pugs: say ~False
14:12 exp_evalbot OUTPUT[␤]
14:12 pugs_svn r19188 | pmurias++ | deleted v6-Onion it has been obsoleted by kp6-kp6
14:13 moritz_ ferreira: the patch looks fine to me
14:14 ferreira do you think I go ahead and commit, or is it better to wait for more eyes to take a look at it?
14:14 moritz_ go and commit it
14:14 moritz_ anybody who objects is free to correct it or to just revert the patch
14:16 pugs_svn r19189 | ferreira++ |  r168@dracma:  perl | 2007-12-12 12:15:51 -0200
14:16 pugs_svn r19189 | ferreira++ |  tests for boolean coertion should use "is"
14:32 masak joined #perl6
14:55 pmurias joined #perl6
15:07 Psyche^ joined #perl6
15:09 rhr ferreira: in the article you have [] and {} as true, but S02:1460 says the empty hash is false and I'm pretty sure [] is also
15:10 ferreira rhr: I was wondering about that just now - gonna fix it. Thanks. Double thanks for the reference where to look at
15:11 rhr ferreira++
15:12 drrho joined #perl6
15:25 njbartlett joined #perl6
15:27 clkao 然後用 binary saerh
15:36 moritz_ ?
15:37 moritz_ wow, the search for multi byte characters still works in the irc logs: http://irclog.perlgeek.de/search.pl?channel=perl6&amp;nick=&amp;q=%E7%84%B6%E5%BE%8C%E7%94%A8
15:37 lambdabot Title: IRC logs - Search, http://tinyurl.com/34zefn
15:50 TJCRI joined #perl6
15:53 ispy_ So, since many of you guys in here have been contributing to Perl6 much longer than myself ( obviously ), any guesses as to when P6 will officially be released? Or is that a silly question? :)
15:54 moritz_ ispy_: christmas
15:54 ispy_ I know no time table exists, which I believe is good...
15:54 ispy_ ok, so the usual answer...
15:54 ispy_ :)
15:54 moritz_ aye ;)
15:54 ispy_ great, just wanted to make sure we were on track.
15:54 ispy_ haha..
15:54 moritz_ I think 2008 or 2009
15:55 ispy_ sounds good.
15:55 moritz_ but it's a tricky questions because not everything is specced yet
15:55 ispy_ Yeah I know the deal.
15:55 moritz_ and we don't know how hard the concurrency part will be
15:56 moritz_ to spec, to implement and to test
15:56 ispy_ I've been doing a grip load of reading on Perl6 in an attempt to try and catch-up on all the lingo and ideals prior to throwing code on svn ( and helping with existing projects ) so...
15:57 ispy_ I'm very much looking forward to helping out, I love Perl :)
15:57 ispy_ And I'm surprised because I was very nervous of p6 once I felt I had a solid understanding of p5.
15:57 moritz_ ;)
15:57 ispy_ But, after about an hour of messing around with p6 I welcomed many of the changes.
15:58 ispy_ And I realized that I needed to get involved.
15:59 moritz_ so you know where to get all the information you need?
15:59 jhorwitz joined #perl6
15:59 moritz_ and have a pugs commit bit, I hope?
15:59 moritz_ and you're subscribed to the mailing lists? ;-)
16:00 ispy_ moritz_: yes and yes.
16:00 ispy_ I need to subscribe to perl6-compiler though, I'll do that now.
16:00 moritz_ very good
16:00 moritz_ most of the interesting talk happens on p6l, though
16:00 ispy_ I'm going to need my hand held a little, I'll admit.  But I'm very eager to contribute, and my code is sound I can assure you.
16:00 ispy_ moritz_: yeah seems to be the most popular list.
16:05 [particle] moritz_: i think traffic will shift to p6c now that language design is mostly done, and we're implementing the compilers
16:05 moritz_ [particle]: might be possible, yes
16:10 fridim_ joined #perl6
16:13 ispy_ left #perl6
16:16 sproingie is there a freeze date for when design will actually be really really done?
16:16 [particle] yes.
16:17 [particle] ...but nobody knows when that is.
16:17 [particle] design doesn't happen before implementation... they happen together
16:18 [particle] one influences the other
16:18 sproingie yes, but eventually both are finished
16:19 [particle] correct.
16:19 [particle] since this is an all-volunteer effort, there's no telling when the volunteers will finish
16:20 [particle] as far as completion percentage goes, larry likes to say that we're done with the first 80%, and well into the second 80%
16:31 Psyche^ joined #perl6
16:41 gbacon joined #perl6
16:45 revdiablo joined #perl6
16:46 barney joined #perl6
17:01 _meppl joined #perl6
17:12 pugs_svn r19190 | ferreira++ |  r173@dracma:  perl | 2007-12-12 15:11:55 -0200
17:12 pugs_svn r19190 | ferreira++ |  bool coercion to containers, hashes and undef
17:20 justatheory joined #perl6
17:26 fglock from #parrot: <fglock> how about this for a short-term kp6 plan: add a nqp backend and try to self-host on it; and try to reuse code and algorithms from the nqp and perl6 compilers
17:36 Tene Interesting.
17:39 ruoso fglock, yap6 is near being available as another backend ;)
17:39 * moritz_ wishes again that #parrot was logged publicly
17:40 moritz_ I followed the discussion, but it would be nice if it was linkable
17:42 Tene It's logged for me.  I can make links that I can follow to the discussion.
17:42 Tene ;)
17:44 meppl joined #perl6
17:54 moritz_ pugs: my $a; for <1 2> -> { say $a }; say $a;
17:54 exp_evalbot OUTPUT[␤␤␤]
17:54 moritz_ pugs: my $a; for <1 2> -> $a { say $a }; say $a;
17:54 exp_evalbot OUTPUT[1␤2␤␤]
17:59 pbuetow joined #perl6
18:01 pmurias kp6: my $a; for <1 2> -> $a { say $a }; say $a;
18:01 exp_evalbot r19190: OUTPUT[1␤2␤␤]
18:03 spinclad looks right
18:04 moritz_ spinclad: it does. I was thinking about http://www.perlmonks.org/?node_id=656675
18:04 lambdabot Title: Re^3: Duh. 'my' scope in if else blocks. (implicit)
18:07 ferreira seen TimToady
18:07 ferreira pugs: ~True
18:07 exp_evalbot RESULT["1"]
18:07 ferreira pugs: ~False
18:08 exp_evalbot RESULT[""]
18:09 ferreira hum, that is coherent with the fact that ~True is true and ~False is false
18:09 fglock (#parrot) alternate plan: "fix" the kp6 source code such that it works in nqp
18:09 moritz_ but not very symmetric
18:11 ferreira moritz: they follow Perl 5 closely:   1==1   returns 1   and   0==1   returns "" - to tell the truth, I heard they return the internal PL_ok and PL_no IIRC
18:12 jjore-w left #perl6
18:13 pmurias fglock: is the plan more oriented towards runing kp6 on parrot or targeting parrot?
18:14 fglock pmurias: both, it would allow kp6 to run both on parrot and Perl 5 (and other backends)
18:16 pmurias if we target the parrot backend seriously shouldn't we target past instead of nqp?
18:17 fglock nqp is Parrot's "MiniPerl6"
18:17 fglock it's low-level enough
18:18 moritz_ pmurias: there is no serialization format (yet) for PAST
18:18 pmurias nqp
18:18 moritz_ pmurias: so you'd trade seriousness for time
18:18 moritz_ gone &
18:18 fglock moritz_: :)
18:18 pmurias we can use nqp as a serialization format
18:19 pmurias once we bootstrap on parrot there is no need to serialize
18:19 fglock nqp is close enough to MiniPerl6, it might even compile kp6 source code
18:20 fglock or, we could tweak -Cperl6
18:21 fglock pmurias: do you think this makes sense?
18:21 pmurias yes
18:24 pmurias fglock: i think it's the question which of the two options is less work
18:25 fglock I think -Cnqp makes more sense, because once kp6 gets self-hosted you would want to use Perl 6 syntax
18:32 cmarcelo joined #perl6
18:33 pmurias fglock: assuming there isn't anything tricky hidden with -Cnqp it seems a better option
18:35 justatheory joined #perl6
18:37 amnesiac joined #perl6
18:42 [particle] logs?
18:42 [particle] where are the public logs?
18:42 [particle] is there a bot with that factoid?
18:43 pmurias irc.pugscode.org
18:43 [particle] ah. easy!
18:45 fglock $ perl script/kp6 -Cperl6 t/kp6/01-tap.t | ~/projetos/parrot-svn/parrot/parrot ~/projetos/parrot-svn/parrot/compilers/nqp/nqp.pbc --
18:46 fglock I get errors, but it's a start
18:47 fglock get to find out what's valid nqp
18:47 fglock I'll create the nqp backend
18:47 [particle] where's the source? i can have a look
18:48 [particle] er, the source input to parrot
18:48 fglock is it Nqp.pm or NQP.pm ?
18:48 fglock [particle]: $ perl script/kp6 -Cperl6 t/kp6/01-tap.t
18:49 [particle] i'm not sure nqp understands 'module' yet
18:50 pugs_svn r19191 | fglock++ | [kp6] added Emit::Nqp placeholders
18:50 [particle] and i'll have to see if it gets & sigil, too
18:50 fglock what can we use to start a namespace?
18:51 fglock [particle]: we can tweak the kp6 emitter
18:52 pmurias fglock: i would guess it should be NQP?
18:53 [particle] we've always used all lowercase
18:53 [particle] but all upper would be fine
18:54 [particle] hrmm, start a namespace. class?
18:54 pugs_svn r19192 | fglock++ | [kp6] fixed Emit::Nqp own namespace and method names
18:55 fglock [particle]: see src/KindaPerl6/Visitor/Emit/Nqp.pm
18:55 [particle] oh, nqp does understand module
18:55 fglock please rename as appropriate :)
18:58 pugs_svn r19193 | ferreira++ |  r175@dracma:  perl | 2007-12-12 16:57:34 -0200
18:58 pugs_svn r19193 | ferreira++ |  basic tests for Bool True and False
18:58 [particle] nqp --target=parse x # works (where x contains output from 01-tap.t)
19:00 [particle] heck, it even generates PAST
19:01 pugs_svn r19194 | fglock++ | [kp6] added -Cnqp backend
19:02 [particle] No scope found for PAST::Var '&say' # seems like it's saying that lexical lookup failed for this variable
19:02 [particle] it's likely that it doesn't know how to process the '&' sigil
19:05 [particle] hrmm, looks like it should parse &
19:05 [particle] s/parse/understand/
19:10 fglock the new incantation is:
19:10 fglock $ perl script/kp6 -Cnqp t/kp6/01-tap.t | ~/projetos/parrot-svn/parrot/parrot ~/projetos/parrot-svn/parrot/compilers/nqp/nqp.pbc --
19:11 fglock [particle]: I could make kp6 remove & when the var is used in Apply context
19:12 [particle] fglock: do it!
19:18 rindolf joined #perl6
19:21 pugs_svn r19195 | fglock++ | [kp6-nqp] removed & sigil when the variable is used in Apply context
19:22 obra fglock: are you likely to be at the lisbon.pm social the first week of January?
19:22 fglock obra: sure
19:22 obra Lovely. I'll get to buy you a drink :)
19:23 obra Kaia and I ended up deciding to holiday in portugal the first week of January
19:23 obra we'll be in Porto 31 Dec - 2 Jan. Probably lisbon for a bit after that.
19:23 fglock cool :)
19:24 fglock [particle]: it works now, but it emits some syntax messages
19:24 pugs_svn r19196 | ferreira++ |  r179@dracma:  perl | 2007-12-12 17:17:01 -0200
19:24 pugs_svn r19196 | ferreira++ |  these tests had wrong anchors - probably to renaming of POD section
19:24 pugs_svn r19197 | ferreira++ |  r180@dracma:  perl | 2007-12-12 17:24:08 -0200
19:24 pugs_svn r19197 | ferreira++ |  fix todo test: ?| produces Bool, and False does not stringify to 0
19:28 [particle] fglock: nqp seems to display the output twice :/
19:30 fglock I get:  error/1..2/ok 1/ ok 2/another error
19:33 fglock home &
19:43 pugs_svn r19198 | ferreira++ |  r185@dracma:  perl | 2007-12-12 17:36:17 -0200
19:43 pugs_svn r19198 | ferreira++ |  added boolean xor infix operator
19:43 pugs_svn r19199 | ferreira++ |  r186@dracma:  perl | 2007-12-12 17:36:40 -0200
19:43 pugs_svn r19199 | ferreira++ |  added basic tests for boolean infix operators
19:43 pugs_svn r19200 | ferreira++ |  r187@dracma:  perl | 2007-12-12 17:41:50 -0200
19:43 pugs_svn r19200 | ferreira++ |  ?&, ?|, ?^ work coercing their arguments to boolean
19:50 TJCRI joined #perl6
19:52 ferreira rhr: FYI, I fixed the problems with my interpretation of [] and {} as booleans in ONLamp article
20:07 jisom joined #perl6
20:09 iblechbot joined #perl6
20:14 ispy_ joined #perl6
20:34 Limbic_Region joined #perl6
21:09 TJCRI joined #perl6
21:15 thoughtpolice joined #perl6
21:32 justatheory joined #perl6
21:46 ispy_ joined #perl6
21:52 ilogger2 joined #perl6
21:52 dduncan joined #perl6
22:00 Lyricson joined #perl6
22:00 * Lyricson 1,8(1,0__1,8/)
22:00 * Lyricson 1,8(4o1' '4o1)
22:00 * Lyricson 1,8(")_(") Pikaaaa Pika Pika chuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu
22:38 snearch joined #perl6
22:45 BinGOs joined #perl6
22:50 Southen joined #perl6
22:52 Southen_ joined #perl6
22:56 REPLeffect joined #perl6
22:57 meppl joined #perl6
23:02 BinGOs_ joined #perl6
23:10 jferrero joined #perl6
23:17 araujo joined #perl6
23:22 d4l3k_ joined #perl6
23:39 njbartlett joined #perl6
23:46 Psyche^ joined #perl6
23:47 sri_ joined #perl6

| Channels | #perl6 index | Today | | Search | Google Search | Plain-Text | summary

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo