Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2007-12-18

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

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02:45 meppel good night
02:45 Auzon See you
02:45 meppel ;)
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03:49 * glion is pondering his first #perl6 question
03:49 glion Hi everyone!
03:50 glion say i wanted to use only one perl6 feature, the new sigil rules
03:50 glion are there ast transform tools to do that now?
03:51 glion i.e. perl5 w/perl6 sigils -> ast -> perl5 ast -> for executing as regular perl5
04:00 Tene Hi!
04:00 Tene There's a Perl 5 source filter.
04:06 glion
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04:07 glion i see that Perl6::Subs would be an example
04:11 Tene Perl6::Variables
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11:45 fglock [particle]: ping
11:46 fglock PerlJam: ping
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12:07 moritz_ many ping timeouts today ;)
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12:37 fglock hmm - S12: VAR is a no-op on a non-scalar variables and values
12:38 fglock I thought VAR(@x) worked
12:42 fglock I wonder if [particle] implemented END
12:42 fglock I'm investigating BEGIN
12:45 fglock in kp6 we have two scenarios
12:45 fglock either detect side effects immediately when BEGIN finishes running,
12:46 fglock or "dump" the whole environment when the compiler emits code
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12:59 fglock I'm looking for BEGIN examples in the synopsis,
12:59 fglock I don't see examples where BEGIN side effects need to be recorded
13:01 fglock BEGIN { COMPILING::<$?FOO> = 42 }    # this can be special cased
13:02 fglock $.r = BEGIN { rand }   # this can be handled just like "return"
13:09 fglock does Perl 6 need to support this:
13:09 fglock pugs:  my $x; BEGIN { $x = 3 }; say $x
13:09 exp_evalbot OUTPUT[3␤]
13:10 fglock kp6:  my $x; BEGIN { $x = 3 }; say $x
13:10 exp_evalbot r19226: OUTPUT[3␤]
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13:53 pmurias pugs:  my $x=4; BEGIN { $x = 3 }; say $x
13:53 exp_evalbot OUTPUT[4␤]
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14:08 [particle] pmichaud++ # all 00-parrot and 01-sanity tests pass
14:12 fglock [particle]: i've just seen it :)
14:14 fglock [particle]: I think I can workaround the kp6-parrot problems with VAR(),
14:14 fglock but i'm still wondering about BEGIN
14:14 [particle] yes, i see that :)
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14:15 fglock it's possible to rewrite kp6 to use plain tables instead of Env, but i'm not sure we should go that route
14:16 pmurias fglock: Env is?
14:17 fglock pmurias: the closure structure that Pad points to
14:17 fglock which makes possible to run BEGIN blocks
14:18 pmurias fglock: thanks
14:23 pmurias fglock: "plain tables" you mean not using the perl5 lexicals, but emulating them ourself?
14:24 fglock no, just keep a table of lexicals, without creating a compile-time representation
14:25 fglock which means, you forbid BEGIN
14:25 fglock hmm - i don't like that
14:26 fglock let's see it the other way out:
14:26 fglock does it make sense to rewrite kp6 using perl6?
14:27 [particle] then you need to wait for perl6 to have BEGIN
14:27 pmurias [particle]: you should use onion as the project name ')
14:27 pmurias s/')/;)
14:28 pmurias i always get confused by perl6 vs Perl 6
14:28 [particle] for perl6? yeah, i like that
14:28 pmurias [particle]: you like onion?
14:28 pmurias as a name
14:30 fglock looking at the perl6 roadmap
14:31 [particle] yes, i've always liked onion. i don't know why we haven't used it
14:33 [particle] bbi20m &
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14:38 fglock hey, I don't need perl6 to have BEGIN - I need perl6 to have eval()
14:38 fglock in order to implement BEGIN in Perl6-in-Perl6
14:39 fglock unless there is an alternate way
14:43 pugs_svn r19227 | pmurias++ | [kp6-perl5] an experimental emitter which attemts to use caching, a bit more work on caching
14:51 pmurias fglock: a method can be a Method or a Code instance or a perl5 CODE?
14:52 pmurias s:1st/or/,/
14:52 fglock a method should always be a Method, but the kp6-perl5 MOP accepts anything
14:54 pugs_svn r19228 | pmurias++ | [kp6-perl5] fixed a small error
14:54 pmurias fglock: Code objects are passed to add_method by kp6 itself
14:55 pmurias fglock: could you look at what am i doing wrong in the method caching part?
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14:56 fglock ok
14:56 pmurias MOP:381
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15:01 fglock pmurias: sorry, I need some time to understand that
15:08 fglock pmurias: i'm trying to figure out an implementation strategy over Parrot
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15:08 pmurias fglock: fine
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15:45 pmurias fglock: i think the "dump" the whole enviroinment way when the compiler emits code could be cleaner
15:46 PerlJam fglock: pong
15:47 fglock PerlJam: unping  # i've got some answers in #parrot
15:47 fglock thanks
15:48 PerlJam cool
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16:16 hoelzro is there a method that I can call to retrieve a list of the methods of an object?
16:18 Juerd No
16:18 Juerd Well, unless you write one :)
16:18 hoelzro hmm
16:19 pmurias Juerd: there is one
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16:19 Juerd pmurias: And it magically knows which subroutine is a method and which one isn't?
16:19 Juerd Oh, wait, this is #perl6 :)
16:20 Juerd Sorry, thought for a second that this was a Perl 5 channel.
16:20 hoelzro nope
16:20 manne what about .HOW.methods?
16:20 hoelzro I can do it in Perl5 easily enough =P
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16:20 hoelzro I think that worked
16:20 pmurias manne: it returns method desciptors
16:20 pmurias * descriptors
16:21 pmurias in Perl6 in kp6 it retuns the list of method names
16:22 pmurias kp6: say (1.HOW).methods;
16:22 exp_evalbot r19228: OUTPUT[incrementperlsmartmatchStrtrueHOWWHAT␤]
16:23 [particle] kp6: .say for (1.HOW).methods;
16:23 exp_evalbot r19228: OUTPUT[syntax error at position 0, line 1 column 0:␤.say for (1.HOW).methods␤^ HERE␤]
16:23 [particle] kp6: $_.say for (1.HOW).methods;
16:24 exp_evalbot r19228: OUTPUT[no method 'say' in Class 'Undef'␤ at compiled/perl5-kp6-mp6/lib/KindaPerl6/Runtime/Perl5/MOP.pm line 345␤  KindaPerl6::Runtime::Perl5::MOP::__ANON__('HASH(0x8160e4c)', 'say') called at compiled/perl5-kp6-mp6/lib/KindaPerl6/Runtime/Perl5/MOP.pm line 169␤
16:24 exp_evalbot ..main::DISPATCH('HASH(0x8160e4c)', 'say') called at compiled/perl5-kp6-mp6/lib/KindaPerl...
16:24 manne hm, not sure I understand the difference between method and method descriptor :(
16:24 hoelzro is kp6 actually usable now?
16:24 [particle] kp6: say $_ for (1.HOW).methods;
16:24 [particle] er, somewhat, apparently :)
16:24 hoelzro last time I messed around with Perl6, pugs was the way to go
16:24 exp_evalbot r19228: OUTPUT[no method 'APPLY' in Class 'Undef'␤ at compiled/perl5-kp6-mp6/lib/KindaPerl6/Runtime/Perl5/MOP.pm line 345␤        KindaPerl6::Runtime::Perl5::MOP::__ANON__('HASH(0x8160e4c)', 'APPLY', 'HASH(0x8e819ac)') called at compiled/perl5-kp6-mp6/lib/KindaPerl6/Runtime/Perl5/MOP.pm line 169␤
16:24 exp_evalbot ..main::DISPATCH('HASH(0x8160e4c)', 'APPLY', 'HASH(0x8e819ac)') ca...
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17:02 pasteling "fglock" at 82.154.252.25 pasted "[parrot perl6] add BEGIN block parsing to grammar.pg" (25 lines, 694B) at http://sial.org/pbot/29273
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17:08 hoelzro what's the Perl 6 equivalent to $"?
17:08 pmichaud hoelzro: STD.pm says it's the .join() method
17:09 hoelzro I see
17:09 hoelzro thanks
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17:24 pasteling "fglock" at 82.154.252.25 pasted "[parrot perl6] simple BEGIN block handling" (44 lines, 1.3K) at http://sial.org/pbot/29274
17:32 avar nice
17:33 avar parrot is really looking less horrid these days from a compiler writer's perspective. That TGE.pir stuff was ass:)
17:35 pasteling "fglock" at 82.154.252.25 pasted "[parrot perl6] simplest BEGIN block test" (7 lines, 61B) at http://sial.org/pbot/29275
17:35 avar how's perl6/nqp (whichever that is) speed wise?
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17:38 [particle] avar: Files=26, Tests=208, 17 wallclock secs ( 0.00 cusr +  0.00 csys =  0.00 CPU)
17:38 [particle] that's for 00-parrot and 01-sanity tests
17:38 [particle] no idea how that compares to kp6
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17:44 fglock [particle]: nevermind comparing to kp6 - compare to perl5 instead :)
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17:48 hoelzro kp6: say 1..('9' / 2)
17:48 exp_evalbot r19228: OUTPUT[no method 'APPLY' in Class 'Int'␤ at compiled/perl5-kp6-mp6/lib/KindaPerl6/Runtime/Perl5/MOP.pm line 345␤  KindaPerl6::Runtime::Perl5::MOP::__ANON__('HASH(0x8e762b4)', 'APPLY') called at compiled/perl5-kp6-mp6/lib/KindaPerl6/Runtime/Perl5/MOP.pm line 169␤
17:48 exp_evalbot ..main::DISPATCH('HASH(0x8e762b4)', 'APPLY') called at - line 18␤]
17:48 hoelzro hmm
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17:51 rindolf rgs: thanks for the upload of perl-5.10.0
17:52 rgs hello rindolf !!!
17:52 rgs yes, 5.10.0 is out.
17:52 [particle] is 5.10 going out! yay! rgs++
17:53 [particle] we'll have parrot out momentarially
17:53 rindolf [particle]: which version of Parrot?
17:53 [particle] 0.5.1
17:55 Juerd Can't you bump that to 0.5.10? ;)
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17:56 moritz_ ;-)
17:57 [particle] i've also got punie (perl 1 on parrot) working, but not passing all original tests yet
17:58 [particle] by next year, we should have perl1 written in perl6 :)
18:13 pmurias [particle]: i that pace will have perl5 on parrot in 5 years and perl6 in 6
18:13 * [particle] works faster...
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18:21 pasteling "fglock" at 82.154.252.25 pasted "[parrot perl6] BEGIN blocks can return a value" (25 lines, 916B) at http://sial.org/pbot/29276
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21:30 pugs_svn r19229 | pmurias++ | [kp6-perl5] all tests pass with the caching emitter enabled however we don't do any real caching yet
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21:32 avar haha
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21:44 pmurias avar: the commit isn't a silly as the description ;)
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21:48 avar w 3
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22:54 lichtkind TimToady: may i ask a question
22:56 Juerd I think you just did! :)
23:00 Tene I considered saying that, but no question mark.
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23:05 lichtkind Juerd:  yeah but he seems offline
23:05 moritz_ http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=444711 pugs package for debian is orphaned - anybody wants to take over?
23:05 Juerd Tried email?
23:05 lambdabot Title: #444711 - O: pugs -- Perl 6 Implementation - Debian Bug report logs
23:05 lichtkind Juerd: nop but it isnt that important right now
23:06 Juerd rafl: Weren't you the maintainer of the pugs deb?
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23:46 avar Juerd: yes
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23:47 avar hrm, it was removed from testing over a year ago

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