Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2007-12-24

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:01 enigmus Pugs::Compiler::Perl6 is required at that line 65, so I try to install that, then Pugs::Compiler::Regex was missing, try by hand through cpan. Then Slurp was missing, so I did that by hand, but when I try to reinstall the previous package, Slurp is still not found. Am I doing something wrong? Why aren't all these packages installed automatically as dependencies?
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01:28 meppel good night
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04:32 tsilence is it true that a first pre-beta version of perl6 will be released this week?
04:33 awwaiid depends on what you consider perl6, probably. and what you consider release.
04:33 awwaiid possibly what you consider "pre-beta"
04:34 tsilence but will anything be released at all? :D
04:34 Tene tsilence: parrot had a nice release a few days ago.
04:35 tsilence Tene: that's all for this year, that's what you mean, right?
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04:36 Tene Oh, right, Christmas.
04:37 tsilence Tene: this is the comment i am talking about: "According to someone I work with, who is part of perl6, they are expecting a real release sometime next week."
04:37 Tene tsilence: yes, unfortunately.  Parrot plans to have a 1.0 release next November, if I'm remembering the roadmap correctly, and they've been very good about meeting milestones on time so far.
04:37 tsilence Tene: do you think it's based on a confusion around this typical joke?
04:37 tsilence http://www.osnews.com/comment.php?news_id=19075
04:37 lambdabot Title: OSNews.com
04:37 tsilence 2007-12-22 16:52:04 UTC in reply to "Perl 6?"
04:37 Tene tsilence: yes, probably.
04:38 tsilence of course, this is just a forum comment!
04:38 Alias_ tsilence: There's been rumblings of the POSSIBILITY of packing up "something" as a single executable and calling it a Perl 6 Alpha
04:38 tsilence Alias_: wow, cool
04:38 Alias_ We have enough pieces working now that we're hitting the tipping point where that is at least possible
04:38 Alias_ But of the few people capable of doing it, I'm not aware of any actually doing so
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04:44 tsilence Alias_: some release at all can only be useful
04:45 tsilence Alias_: don't you think so?
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04:51 Alias_ Well, it needs to hit SOME threshhold of usefulness
04:51 tsilence Alias_: i know.. but still
04:52 Alias_ And progress on the stuff that would be included is moving very quickly
04:52 tsilence ah, that's cool
04:52 Alias_ So I imagine once the basics are in place, there'd be an ideal time to build it
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04:53 tsilence until not long ago i was still feeling perl6 was too much of a change to become possible anytime soon
04:53 tsilence now i am regaining hope
04:53 tsilence :)
04:55 Alias_ Well, there's been a few low points
04:55 Alias_ The first was before audreyt++ created pugs
04:55 Alias_ And the second was before Parrot 0.5 (imo anyways)
04:55 tsilence btw, pugs seems to be stagnating
04:56 Alias_ Well, in the larger scheme of things, I'm not even sure if it's MEANT to survive the release of Perl 6
04:56 Alias_ Certainly the test suite from pugs is now the test suite for the main release
04:56 Alias_ And it's served it's role of trying out Perl 6 "for real" very well
04:57 tsilence right
04:57 Alias_ Provided feedback to Larry on language issues etc
05:01 tsilence you mean you don't think it's meant to survive the release of *any* perl6?
05:02 Alias_ I mean that once the official version of perl 6 is done, the focus on it will most likely be greatly reduced
05:02 Alias_ Then again, Perl 6 is meant to have multiple implementations...
05:02 tsilence Alias_: but why isn't this obvious, why do you say "i am not sure"?
05:02 tsilence Alias_: oh, i see
05:02 Alias_ Because I'm not a Perl 6 insider :)
05:03 Alias_ I just know people and stuff
05:03 tsilence Alias_: so it is not considered to be a test implementation only
05:03 Alias_ Well, insomuch as having a working version of what is in Larry's head for testing purposes, it's  a test implementation
05:03 tsilence Alias_: well, i meant it the other way around, but i see (your answer works either way anyway) :)
05:03 Alias_ Who's to say what end it will eventually be put
05:06 tsilence why those low points? what produced the pessimism?
05:06 Alias_ lack of visible forward progress, or actual forward progress
05:06 jql the inability of outside contributors to participate
05:07 Alias_ And that too
05:07 jql what exactly was the peanut gallery supposed to do to help before pugs?
05:07 jql I threw popcorn at @larry, but that got boring quick
05:07 Alias_ They yammered in the language channel and read summaries about parrot minutia
05:08 Alias_ As for the more recent of the two, pugs was kinda stagnating a bit, both from audreyt being sick, and because it was sending tentacles out in every direction without really helping the main trunk
05:09 tsilence jql: why the inability of outside contributors to participate?
05:09 Alias_ tsilence: If you can't actually execute code, what's left to do
05:09 jql most contributors just write code
05:09 Alias_ You can talk about stuff endlessly, but nobody can actually TRY anything
05:09 tsilence Alias_: heh
05:10 jql running a "mental" compiler and analyzing the language that way is a project for a CS class, not an open-source project.
05:10 Alias_ Perl/CPAN has a strong "People that do not contribute, do not count" culture
05:10 Alias_ People WANT to code
05:11 tsilence jql: oh, i misinterpreted your "inability" as referring to their being somehow restricted access
05:11 Alias_ Restricted due to responsibility contention
05:11 jql no. as audrey glaringly pointed out, anyone can pick up the torch and run with it
05:11 tsilence Alias_: aha, so that too
05:11 Alias_ Only a few people can hack the parrot internals before it gets messy
05:12 tsilence right
05:12 Alias_ But then again, not that many people CAN hack the parrot internals
05:12 Alias_ That leaves all the rest of us mere mortals out of the loop
05:12 tsilence it's understandable
05:12 [particle] really, how many folks are interested in writing a virtual machine?
05:12 Alias_ Pugs let the unwashed masses have something to do
05:13 Alias_ Like writing what could be the production test suite for Perl 6 (plus actually trying P6 for real, and doing crazy shit with haskell and javascript)
05:13 jql <-- unwashed illiterate serf
05:13 Alias_ <-- doesn't even do stuff below the language surface :)
05:13 [particle] <-- parrot illuminati
05:13 jql <-- somewhat responsible for ??!!
05:13 * Alias_ is but a mere toolchain weeny in comparison to the illuminati
05:13 tsilence [particle]: so you're a contributor to parrot?
05:14 [particle] i am
05:14 * jql accepts the blame
05:14 [particle] ??!!++
05:14 tsilence [particle]: what will/can make it so special, really?
05:14 Auzon <-- wants to help
05:15 [particle] parrot's a virtual machine designed to support dynamic languages like perl 6
05:15 [particle] it's taken us a while to get where we are because this is cutting edge, and *hard*
05:16 tsilence [particle]: what is cutting edge, the fact that it supports dynamic languages?
05:16 [particle] so, microsoft and sun have been putting efforts into catching up with us
05:16 [particle] and we're trying to catch up with them
05:16 Alias_ tsilence: That it supports them as first class citizens without crippling them, yes
05:17 [particle] much of the parrot architecture hasn't been done to target real world languages
05:17 tsilence Alias_: will it support python, btw?
05:17 [particle] for instance, unification of events and threads into one syntem
05:17 [particle] *system
05:17 Alias_ I believe there's a python compiler in there already, at some level of usefulness
05:17 [particle] parrot will support javascript, python, ruby, perl, tcl, etc
05:17 Alias_ Not sure what state it's in
05:17 tsilence [particle]: you mean as in "hasn't yet"?
05:18 jql javascript. now there's a language I wanna see on parrot
05:18 tsilence [particle]: any idea about the size it will have (in mbs)?
05:18 [particle] there is no high-level language running on top of parrot that can be seen as complete, because parrot is incomplete
05:18 Alias_ particle: You just need to find a language that doesn't have any of the features that parrot doesn't have yet :)
05:18 Alias_ Surely the bf language could be made relatively complete
05:18 [particle] tsilence: the size of the vm? i don't know, really. my main focus has been completeness and correctness. optimization follows
05:19 [particle] well, i worked hard to get perl 1 passing some tests over the last few weeks
05:19 Khisanth Alias_: and who would be using bf as their language of choice? :)
05:19 Alias_ Khisanth: You missed a great talk at YAPC::AU
05:19 [particle] ooh, yeah, bf is running on parrot, so is hq9+
05:20 Tene Alias_: parrot has an hq9+ implementation. ;)
05:20 Tene ETOOLATE
05:20 Alias_ See, there ya go
05:20 [particle] :D
05:20 Auzon bye
05:20 Khisanth hrm I thought it had BASIC as well
05:20 [particle] the parrot compiler toolkit is *awesome*. it makes writing compilers so easy
05:20 Alias_ Could that be considered complete though?
05:20 jql lolparrot?
05:20 [particle] no more lex/yacc garbage
05:21 [particle] i expect lolparrot to be complete before april 1 :)
05:21 jql very necessary. :)
05:21 tsilence are any ruby or python guys contributing to parrot?
05:21 Tene Hmm.  Anyone currently working on lolparrot?
05:21 Auzon What's lolparrot?
05:21 jql lolcode for parrot
05:21 Auzon Ah
05:21 [particle] yes, at times. there was a lull in contributions while we got our new object model and compiler toolkit in place
05:22 jql I CAN HAZ STDIO?
05:22 jql err, s/^I// apparently
05:22 [particle] tsilence: now that that's up and working, we're actively hacking on perl6, and adding new things all the time
05:22 Alias_ PRINTER CAT SAYZ HELLO WROLD!!!
05:22 [particle] i hope soon to branch out and help the ruby/js folks get their implementations converted to the new tools, and extend those implementations
05:23 Alias_ particle: Do you have a Perl::Dist-like compiler toolchain for building a "dist" ?
05:23 tsilence are any ruby or python guys contributing to parrot? and, if not, why not? i mean, isn't it in their best interest?
05:23 [particle] alias_: like, a perl6 exe?
05:23 Alias_ particle: Right
05:24 [particle] alias_: we're working on it. chromatic and i have a small piece (30 lines?) of c code that will take parrot bytecode and make it into a native exe
05:24 [particle] so, we just need to be able to find all the bytecode files that should be in a specific dist, merge them, and package it up
05:24 Alias_ ok
05:24 Alias_ Might I recommend doing it Perl::Dist-style though
05:25 [particle] i'll take a look at perl::dist, i'm not familiar
05:25 Alias_ Perl::Dist is the toolkit we use to build Vanilla/Strawberry Perl
05:25 [particle] ah, excellent.
05:25 Alias_ > perldist Perl::Dist::Strawberry "file://c|/minicpan/"
05:25 lambdabot Parse error at "::Str..." (column 20)
05:25 Alias_ 1.5 hours later an .exe installer pops out
05:25 [particle] i've got to test strawberry 5.10 with parrot. i couldn't build parrot on strawberry 5.8.8
05:26 Alias_ If you hit trouble let me know
05:26 [particle] roger, wilco
05:26 tsilence i've just read about lolcode. never heard of it. it's really funny!!
05:26 Alias_ After the new year I'll probably have recovered from the last 1-2 weeks
05:26 Alias_ And be able to think about coding on Perl::Dist again
05:27 [particle] we're looking for folks to help us write the perl6 compiler. patrick michaud and i should soon be writing more docs, tutorials, and articles to get folks started
05:27 Alias_ I'm mostly interested in the toolchain/6CPAN side of it
05:28 Alias_ I really couldn't be bothered dealing with the language itself :)
05:28 [particle] well, i'd love to see a perl6 distribution
05:28 Alias_ I'd be happy to make one
05:28 [particle] ok, then we need to talk.
05:28 Alias_ The CPAN crew have been ready for years to start hacking on the 6CPAN, but nobody has any real idea wtf the language is gunna be like to work with
05:28 Alias_ So all we have is various specs that in my opinion all suck
05:29 [particle] written in p6?
05:29 Alias_ Well, as I understand it, the big difference will be the need to deal with multiple languages
05:29 [particle] yes, indeed
05:30 Alias_ There's a myriad of issues that introduces
05:30 Alias_ And I'm sure myself, Schwern, rjbs have stuff in our heads how that might happen
05:30 Alias_ But we need something we can touch
05:30 Alias_ And experiment
05:30 [particle] hope you can get together this conference season
05:30 Alias_ I plan to do both the big northern ones if I can
05:31 [particle] the db schema is pretty central to 6cpan
05:31 [particle] otherwise lookups could take infinity
05:31 Alias_ I'd say we're still back at conceptual phase
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05:31 Alias_ I should note I'm also involved in a CCAN atm :)
05:31 Alias_ CPAN for C, with Rusty Russel and friends
05:31 [particle] really? didn't know that
05:32 Alias_ It's less than 3 weeks old, even conceptually
05:32 Alias_ We shared breakfast a couple of mornings at YAPC::AU
05:32 [particle] get llvm's bits hosted there
05:32 Alias_ llvm?
05:32 [particle] it's a virtual machine
05:32 [particle] we'd like to steal their jit
05:33 [particle] it'd be nice if it were packaged in a standard repo somewhere :)
05:33 Alias_ Well, CCAN is also at the stage of working out what exactly a "package" means and such
05:33 Alias_ There's language specific issues
05:34 Alias_ I imagine 6PAN is going to have issues with bootstrapping for example
05:34 Alias_ Especially with muoltiple languages around
05:34 [particle] sure, each with a different idea of package, and a different install method
05:35 [particle] i'd hate to see the configure process for 6pan
05:36 [particle] do you have every tool imaginable? let's bring out the giant probe and see....
05:36 * Alias_ shrugs
05:37 Alias_ So yeah, there's $stuff that needs to be worked out
05:37 Alias_ Not to mention dealing with multiple language communities...
05:37 Alias_ Python should be fun...
05:38 Alias_ "Hi Python guys, we'd like you to totally change your distro packaging"
05:38 Alias_ Anyways, this is why we need something tangible :)
05:38 Alias_ We have a whole nother set of $hard problems once you guys solve YOUR $hard problems
05:39 [particle] sure. and be on the lookout for gpan. once google gets wind of what you're doing...
05:39 Alias_ meh
05:39 Alias_ CPAN's require consultation with communities
05:39 Alias_ Google is too insulated in my opinion
05:40 [particle] they do own guido
05:40 Alias_ point
05:40 Alias_ And they added the release manager this year too
05:42 [particle] so it begins.
05:42 [particle] anyway, you've found good solutions to hard problems before. i have faith.
05:42 [particle] and i'll make sure parrot doesn't totally suck
05:42 [particle] (best i can)
05:43 tsilence Alias_: do you think the pythoners will accept it?
05:43 * [particle] heads to bed
05:43 [particle] night all!
05:44 Alias_ tsilence: The Pythonistas have a religious aversion to anything Perl
05:45 Alias_ tsilence: It will probably come down to battling network effects at ten paces
05:48 Alias_ If the 6PAN has some absolutely killer functionality, and adoption rates rise enough, Python will have no choice but to adopt it
05:48 Alias_ In which case, I win
05:49 Alias_ :)
05:49 Alias_ (Assuming I get some say in the 6PAN design)
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06:34 tsilence Alias_: but how can python adopt 6pan?
06:41 Alias_ tsilence: If 6PAN supports module installation, there's no reason it shouldn't support python packages
06:41 Alias_ Or 6PAN packages IMPLEMENTED in Pthon
06:42 tsilence Alias_: i see
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10:08 Rahj I was just reading an old article about Perl 6. Could someone tell me what the latest version is? I can't find a channel called perl7 or perl8. Are you up to 9 or 10 yet?
10:09 faxathisia latest version of what?
10:09 Rahj Of Perl
10:09 faxathisia 5.something
10:09 faxathisia 6 isn't finished yet
10:10 Rahj That's impossible. I read years ago that they were working on it.
10:10 faxathisia What's impossible?
10:10 Rahj Just kidding. I'm Wassercrats.
10:10 faxathisia What does Wassercrats mean?
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10:12 Rahj In Swahili it means "help! There's a wombat in my kitchen!"
10:13 faxathisia Are the Swahili really that afraid of wombat, that they need an entire word for this situation?
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10:17 Rahj There's a legend that a wombat wiped out an ancient village  because the villagers wouldn't feed it the rare Wombat fruit.
10:19 Rahj Isn't Audrey still active on some forum, writing about Perl? I could have sworn I saw recent messages from her.
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10:35 Rahj How pathetic is it that the colabti log of this is prettier than ChatZilla. :(
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13:40 tuxdna hello chacha_chaudhry
13:41 chacha_chaudhry tuxdna: hello
13:41 tuxdna chacha_chaudhry: did u build pugs
13:42 tuxdna chacha_chaudhry: I mean successfully. I am still getting errors.
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13:44 chacha_chaudhry tuxdna: yes, will be back in a while
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13:46 * chacha_chaudhry part
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13:55 Aankhen`` What the...?
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16:43 pugs_svn r19244 | lwall++ | cut-n-paste error noticed by perljam++
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18:26 TimToady gah, how did P5 end up with a symmetrical smartmatch when we made it assymetrical in P6 a long time ago...
18:28 wolverian I was thinking it was related to the lack of proper signatures
18:28 wolverian but that only holds for subrefs..
18:29 wolverian and even then it doesn't really make sense, I suppose
18:29 jjore-m last time I looked p5 matched what was written about p6 (which was many months ago).
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18:36 TimToady smartmatch should be dispatched first by the type of the pattern, or it's difficult to optimize effectively.
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18:38 TimToady when 42 should always do a numeric match, and when "foo" should do a string match
18:38 dlocaus .
18:43 dlocaus merry christmas everyone! ;)
18:44 TimToady likewise!
18:47 TimToady anyway, the current P5 sematics makes it *impossible* optimize a numeric switch to a jump table.
18:47 TimToady *semantics
18:47 TimToady *make
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18:50 TimToady not to mention s/optimize/to optimize/
18:52 wolverian hmm
18:53 wolverian I also don't like how $foo ~~ @bar is the same as $foo ~~ \@bar and $foo ~~ (my @bar = ...) doesn't work
18:53 wolverian s/ and/, but/
18:53 wolverian didn't try $foo ~~ [my @foo = ...], hopefully that works at least :)
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18:58 TimToady also means that the p5-to-p6 translator will have to just give up and throw "p5when 42" in there, in case the given reverses the test...
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19:25 Limbic_Region TimToady - is someone keeping MAD up to date (lots of syntax changes with 5.10.0)?
19:25 Limbic_Region TimToady - more importantly, will MAD help p5 -> p6 if the p5 code in question was before MAD existed?
19:26 Limbic_Region TimToady - also, any progress on longest token matcher?
19:26 Limbic_Region TimToady - finally, happy holidays and thanks for another year of hard work and dedication ;-)
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19:37 pmurias Limbic_Region: why wouldn't MAD work for code written before it's creation?
19:38 pmurias or do you mean for code no longer parsed by newer perls?
19:41 Limbic_Region pmurias - eating a sandwich, be with you in a second
19:42 Limbic_Region pmurias - I mean for code that either no longer parses or functions differently
19:42 Limbic_Region pmurias - for instance, pseudo-hashes
19:44 pmurias Limbic_Region: AFAIK code that just function diffrently would just need special treatment in the translator
19:44 pmurias Limbic_Region: is it a big issue for you?
19:45 pmurias * functions, differently
19:45 Limbic_Region pmurias - I am not overly concerned, I am just not overly familiar with it and so was wondering
19:59 Khisanth Limbic_Region: well for pseudo-hashes, if it doesn't work in the "current" perl5 why would anyone expect them to work in perl6?
19:59 pmurias Limbic_Region: it could be better to have an old perl->p5 converter and run it before the p5->p6 one
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21:09 pmurias fglock: merry christmas ;)
21:10 fglock pmurias: feliz natal :)
21:12 pmurias in the "Perl 6 Design Minutes" you mentioned that features would be lost when using Moose, what sort of?
21:15 fglock anonymous classes, which I'm not sure Perl 6 supports anyway
21:16 pmurias fglock: Class::MOP::Class has &create_anon_class
21:17 fglock v6.pm already uses Moose without problem
21:17 fglock problems
21:18 fglock pmurias: do you think kp6-Moose makes sense?
21:19 pmurias thinking
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21:20 fglock v6.pm also uses Data::Bind, Sub::Multi and other perl5 tricks
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21:20 pmurias fglock: perl5 interoperability would be nice
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21:23 fglock actually, we could almost reuse the v6.pm backend
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21:23 fglock s/backend/runtime/
21:23 pmurias do you think we would get bearable speed for a compiler bootstraped that way?
21:23 fglock I'm trying to implement "Pad.pm" in Parrot
21:24 fglock not really
21:24 pmurias it should be much faster than the mp6 one
21:26 fglock maybe - the new token implementation is faster
21:26 TimToady yes, P6 supports anonymous classes; in fact, it requires them
21:26 TimToady (or mixins can't work right)
21:27 pmurias fglock: although i tend to underestimate the fact that anything can be slower the mp6-based kp6 ;)
21:27 TimToady Limbic_Region: some effort was made to update MAD for 5.10, but doubtless there is some bitrot there
21:28 fglock TimToady: merry christmas
21:28 TimToady feliz natal :)
21:29 fglock I'm more into the Channuka thing :)
21:30 pmurias i have my 18 birthday today too ;)
21:30 fglock happy birthay pmurias!
21:31 pmurias thanks :)
21:32 fglock birthday
21:33 fglock dynlexpad.pmc in Parrot looks a bit like Pad.pm in kp6
21:35 pmurias looking
21:35 fglock it looks like the Scheme compiler is the only place it is used
21:36 fglock I wonder if it would make sense to write a pmc for kp6 - this looks like a hack
21:38 pmurias fglock: it looks a bit like Scope
21:38 pmurias does it handle outer?
21:38 fglock I'm not sure, I think it does
21:39 fglock but maybe outer is a low level VM thing
21:39 fglock I'm not sure how it works in parrot
21:44 fglock I'm still learning Parrot - and the Parrot culture too
21:45 pmurias i'm reading pdd20
21:45 PerlJam "parrot culture" is an odd thing to see written down.
21:46 fglock PerlJam: I mean, you can't just get to the irc channel and ask for a feature
21:47 PerlJam sure you could!  But what reaction are you hoping to elicit :)
21:50 PerlJam btw, did you see ruoso's post to perlmonks?  I can't help but have mixed emotions about it. In one sense it's more "strength through diversity" and in another it's less brain power working on the stuff that I think matters most
21:50 fglock ruoso is here :)
21:51 fglock ruoso says: i think diversity may be the only way for getting p6 really out
21:52 fglock re Parrot, I probably need to learn more about it, first
21:53 fglock Parrot has several semantic layers, I need to choose the right one
21:55 PerlJam With the Parrot Compiler Toolikit, implementing perl6 on parrot seems quite imminent  (more so than ever).  Either way, as long as we get a perl 6 in the end, I'm happy  :-)
21:57 PerlJam fglock: there was a time when I thought that you would beat the parrot implementation to a perl6, but now I think it's swung the other way.
21:58 fglock PerlJam: re Toolkit, I've been playing with it, and I'm trying to contribute to "perl6" - but I'm having trouble mapping the kp6 feature set to parrot
21:59 fglock I can't see yet how to add some kp6 features to "perl6"
22:00 PerlJam such as?
22:00 pmurias fglock: LexPad seems to be like Scope.vars
22:01 fglock pugs: { my $x; BEGIN { $x=3 }; say $x }
22:01 exp_evalbot OUTPUT[3␤]
22:02 fglock PerlJam: "perl6" doesn't have a way to define lexicals at compile-time, yet
22:04 fglock the kp6 AST has a place to store the lexical environment of the program under compilation
22:04 fglock I'm trying to find the Parrot counterpart
22:04 pmurias LexInfo
22:05 pmurias fglock: have you read pdd20?
22:06 fglock pmurias: can you create LexInfo and LexPad using PIR? this could be it
22:08 pmurias don't know
22:08 fglock re read: maybe I should reread
22:09 pmurias sleep&
22:12 justatheory joined #perl6
22:12 fglock PerlJam: I'm still looking for alternate implementations
22:12 fglock this is not a priority for perl6,
22:13 fglock but kp6 depends on it for bootstrapping
22:16 sanfd joined #perl6
22:17 r0bby joined #perl6
22:20 fglock PerlJam: re diversity vs. brainpower,
22:21 fglock I'm divided between kp6 and perl6
22:22 PerlJam Hmm.
22:22 fglock perl6 requires hacking the whole tool stack, if you want to make real contributions
22:25 PerlJam I never thought so much that it *required* hacking the whole stack, though I guess you're right as my interactions have basically been doing that.
22:26 PerlJam But I think that's just a function of the flux that parrot/pct are in.  Once things settle down a bit, you can make meaninful contributions in specific areas easily I think
22:26 fglock I hope I get to it soon :)
22:32 solar_ant joined #perl6
22:39 fglock bbl &
22:40 solar_ant hi all
22:40 solar_ant i ahve heard that perl6 doesnt have references
22:40 PerlJam hello solar_ant.  No, it has Captures.
22:40 solar_ant wonder how lists of lists and such data structures are made possible
22:41 PerlJam solar_ant: transparently
22:41 solar_ant PerlJam:  where can I read about it
22:42 PerlJam http://dev.perl.org/perl6/doc/synopsis.html
22:42 lambdabot Title: Synopses - perl6
22:45 solar_ant thanks PerlJam  :)
22:50 wolverian http://spec.pugscode.org might be nicer
22:50 lambdabot Title: Official Perl 6 Documentation
22:50 wolverian with the tocs
22:52 solar_ant the little I have seen looks great
22:52 solar_ant hoping for it to release soon !
22:53 solar_ant wolverian:  this site is much easier to read
22:53 wolverian which?
22:54 solar_ant spec.pugscode.org
22:54 wolverian good :)
22:55 PerlJam It's all the same stuff, just in different packaging :)
22:57 BinGOs_ joined #perl6
22:57 solar_ant yeah PerlJam  :)
22:58 solar_ant I meant easier to read as in the layout
23:44 r0bby joined #perl6

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