Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2007-12-31

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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03:55 alester Trying to aggregate the stuff we already know, and point to what we don't http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/i​ndex.cgi?when_will_perl_6_be_released
03:55 lambdabot Title: When will Perl 6 be released? / Perl 6, http://tinyurl.com/37k2wt
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06:18 pasteling "avar" at 212.30.222.56 pasted "Progblem with Optimize::RuleConstantFold" (17 lines, 1K) at http://sial.org/pbot/29512
06:19 pasteling "avar" at 212.30.222.56 pasted "Progblem with Optimize::RuleConstantFold (emitted code)" (9 lines, 361B) at http://sial.org/pbot/29513
06:21 avar-2 perl script/kp6 --do MetaClass,Global,Emit::AstPerl -e "token opt_ws { ' ' | ''  }" | perltidy  <= better
06:22 avar-2 ah
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07:43 avar-2 argh, nothing works
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08:05 pmurias avar: fixed ;)
08:05 pugs_svn r19294 | pmurias++ | [kp6] fixed bug reported today by avar++ with '' being wrongly handled by Optimize::RuleConstantFold
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08:10 pugs_svn r19295 | avar++ | Don't fail when the pugs t directory isn't in ../../
08:19 pmurias avar: if you want you could propably add RuleConstantFold to the default workflow
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08:24 avar I'm testing that
08:25 pmurias i don't think a -Olevel option is needed yet
08:52 avar the current stuff is running with mp6, can't it run on kp6?
08:52 avar I'm wondering how much faster the kp6-kp6 parser is with the optimization but I'm not able to run it
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09:03 pmurias avar: i haven't timed it but the kp6-kp6 parser seems much faster
09:03 pmurias but the kp6-kp6 visitors are horribly slow
09:03 avar how do you run it?
09:04 pmurias script/kp6-kp6.pl
09:05 pmurias i have started work on an alterantive perl5 backend Emit::Perl5V6
09:05 pmurias avar: to (re)compile kp6-kp6 you need to pass the KP6_TARGET='KP6-KP6' option to Makefile.pl
09:10 avar $ perl -I compiled/perl5-kp6-kp6/lib script/kp6-kp6.pl
09:10 avar KindaPerl6/Runtime/Perl6/Pair.pm did not return a true value at compiled/perl5-kp6-kp6/lib/Kind​aPerl6/Runtime/Perl5/Runtime.pm line 13.
09:12 pmurias avar: did you recompile kp6?
09:12 pmurias KP6_TARGET should be 'KP6-BOOT'
09:14 pmurias s/pass (.*) option/pass $1 the enviornment variable/
09:14 pasteling "avar" at 208.78.101.240 pasted "boot failure" (211 lines, 19.7K) at http://sial.org/pbot/29515
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09:15 pmurias the Makefile's broken it treats a perl5 file as perl6 one
09:18 pmurias want to fix it?
09:19 avar nope:)
09:20 pmurias kp6-kp6 parser is a bit broken so you won't have much use for kp6-kp6
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09:32 pmurias avar: kp6 parses my declarations wrongly
09:32 pugs_svn r19296 | pmurias++ | [kp6-kp6] fixed the Makefile,updated the image
09:33 pmurias * kp6-kp6
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09:52 aaron_TeeJay bah
09:52 aaron_TeeJay naturally pugs requires a newer version of haskell than the one I downloaded and compiled for 48 hours last time I tried pugs
09:52 Tene What version did you use last time?
09:53 aaron_TeeJay 6.6
09:53 aaron_TeeJay now I need 6.6.1
09:53 aaron_TeeJay anybody have recent svn pugs and want to let me know if examples/hanoi works (without // and/or argv) ?
09:54 aaron_TeeJay update http://www.perlfoundation.org/​perl6/index.cgi?tower_of_hanoi if you do
09:54 lambdabot Title: Tower of Hanoi / Perl 6
09:54 aaron_TeeJay thanks
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09:54 Tene aaron_TeeJay: works for me
09:55 aaron_TeeJay which svn revision?
09:55 aaron_TeeJay and with // and argv ?
09:55 aaron_TeeJay can you benchmark it too?#
09:55 Tene looks like I have 18224 on that box, but I'm not certain I've recompiled with that version
09:56 Tene Tell me what to run to produce the benchmarking info you want.
09:59 aaron_TeeJay ext/Benchmark/lib/Benchmark.pm
10:00 aaron_TeeJay 1000 iterations of 6 discs?
10:00 aaron_TeeJay which svn revision do you have installed?
10:00 Tene 18224
10:01 Tene aaron_TeeJay: how do you want me to run those 1000 iterations?  modify hanoi.pl or run the existing hanoi.pl 1000 times, with full startup costs, or what?
10:02 aaron_TeeJay modify
10:02 aaron_TeeJay no point benchmarking startup costs
10:02 aaron_TeeJay thanks
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10:03 Tene aaron_TeeJay: with or without the 'say' output to stdout?
10:04 kanru joined #perl6
10:05 aaron_TeeJay skip say
10:06 aaron_TeeJay ideally, print to a file instead
10:06 aaron_TeeJay but that's something else to worry about
10:06 aaron_TeeJay can always improve later
10:06 aaron_TeeJay thanks
10:06 aaron_TeeJay 1 down, 50 odd to go
10:07 Tene Running on pugs...
10:07 Tene parrot completed it in:
10:07 Tene real    0m3.577s
10:07 Tene user    0m3.119s
10:07 Tene sys     0m0.452s
10:07 aaron_TeeJay parrot?
10:07 Tene Waiting on pugs.
10:07 aaron_TeeJay what svn for parrot?
10:07 Tene Current.
10:08 pasteling "Tene" at 166.70.38.237 pasted "hanoi-bench" (13 lines, 200B) at http://sial.org/pbot/29516
10:10 aaron_TeeJay pugs still going
10:10 Tene Yep.
10:10 aaron_TeeJay ouch
10:11 Tene I'll kill it and re-do it, printing the iteration each time.
10:11 aaron_TeeJay try 100 instead
10:11 aaron_TeeJay or even 10
10:12 Tene pugs:
10:12 Tene real    0m22.611s
10:12 Tene user    0m22.384s
10:12 Tene sys     0m0.101s
10:12 Tene parrot:
10:12 Tene real    0m0.841s
10:12 Tene user    0m0.694s
10:12 Tene sys     0m0.141s
10:12 aaron_TeeJay how many iterations for pugs?
10:12 Tene 100, both with a 'say' for the iteration number.
10:12 aaron_TeeJay right
10:13 Tene also on completely different boxes
10:13 Tene So not an actual usable comparison
10:13 Tene I had haskell issues compiling pugs on my laptop that I didn't track down.
10:13 aaron_TeeJay thanks
10:13 aaron_TeeJay :)
10:13 Tene No problem.
10:14 aaron_TeeJay at least it gives ballpark figures
10:14 Tene Yeah.
10:14 aaron_TeeJay what kind of machine for pugs vs parrot ?
10:15 Tene pugs: 1ghz, 640M ram
10:15 exp_evalbot OUTPUT[*** ␤    Unexpected "ghz"␤    expecting "_", fraction, exponent, term postfix or operator␤    at /tmp/iPdrXKywJB line 1, column 2␤]
10:15 aaron_TeeJay oops :)
10:15 Tene parrot: 1.6ghz, 2G ram
10:16 Tene pugs: [~] <m oo se>
10:16 exp_evalbot RESULT["moose"]
10:16 aaron_TeeJay so the h/w performance wouldn't alone be the cause of the difference of that scale then :)
10:16 Tene Right.
10:16 Tene Oh, right, I'll update parrot on that box and run it there.
10:17 aaron_TeeJay neat
10:17 aaron_TeeJay can you update http://www.perlfoundation.org/​perl6/index.cgi?tower_of_hanoi when you're done
10:17 lambdabot Title: Tower of Hanoi / Perl 6
10:17 * Tene has been up a bit too long.
10:17 aaron_TeeJay don't worry about it then
10:17 aaron_TeeJay :)
10:17 * aaron_TeeJay ought to do some Work
10:17 aaron_TeeJay i.e. stuff that pays mortgage
10:17 Tene What do you want me to add?
10:17 aaron_TeeJay don't worry about it
10:17 aaron_TeeJay :)
10:18 aaron_TeeJay have benchmarks, machines, code - I think that page is "done"
10:18 aaron_TeeJay people can always add newer benchmarks, etc
10:18 aaron_TeeJay I'll look at doing hilbert curve next weekend
10:18 Tene Oh, you added stuff.  I should try reading.  ;)
10:18 aaron_TeeJay :)
10:19 Tene Can you point me to a hilbert impl?
10:20 aaron_TeeJay linked from hilbert page iirc ;)
10:20 aaron_TeeJay but not done in perl6 yet
10:20 Tene Ahh.
10:20 aaron_TeeJay it's implemented in every language :)
10:20 aaron_TeeJay except perl 6 and possibly some obscure assembly
10:21 aaron_TeeJay it's another interesting recursion problem
10:21 aaron_TeeJay but you can add layers of efficiency/complexity
10:22 aaron_TeeJay very much a "solve on paper first" one
10:22 aaron_TeeJay right - work
10:22 aaron_TeeJay laters all
10:22 Tene Or a "steal from the p5 impl" one
10:22 aaron_TeeJay thanks for help
10:22 aaron_TeeJay I wrote the p5 impl :)
10:22 Tene What is it you do for work, btw?
10:22 Tene seeya.
10:22 aaron_TeeJay fuck-off-big online classifieds
10:23 aaron_TeeJay so that even on a sunday morning the site is still being used by dozens of users
10:23 Tene Nice.
10:23 aaron_TeeJay which is annoying for maintainence
10:23 aaron_TeeJay but lots of interesting problems in scaling and high availability
10:24 Tene Rather.
10:24 aaron_TeeJay yes - that's why I took the job
10:24 aaron_TeeJay that and working from home
10:24 aaron_TeeJay :)
10:25 * aaron_TeeJay puts 30 mins "research" on timesheet
10:40 Tene aaron_TeeJay: parrot, 100 revs, same box as pugs:
10:40 Tene real    0m2.007s
10:40 Tene user    0m1.939s
10:40 Tene sys     0m0.045s
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17:49 ruoso hmm.. some irc log is lost...
17:49 ruoso too bad
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20:12 zev I'm looking to do some work on perl6.  I've spent some time looking through the existing code, and want to start on some small tasks.  I don't see anything in the perl6 hiveminder group.  Does anyone know of anything smallish that needs working on right now?
20:13 [particle] perl 6 in general, or perl6 the parrot app?
20:14 zev perl6 the parrot app
20:15 zev (or things in parrot or pct that need doing for perl6)
20:15 [particle] hop on over to irc.perl.org#parrot, you're more likely to get answers there. but in general, we need help reorganizing the tests in pugs to align with the synopses
20:17 zev ok.  I'll ask over there
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22:00 pugs_svn r19297 | zev++ | * added myself to AUTHORS (commit bit test)
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22:13 [particle] pugs: say :8<10>
22:13 exp_evalbot OUTPUT[8␤]
22:14 [particle] pugs: say :2<10>
22:14 exp_evalbot OUTPUT[2␤]
22:17 avar zev: welcome!:)
22:29 zev thanks
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23:23 cognominal_ test
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23:28 acmoore OK 1
23:31 markstos Is pugs still alive? http://pugs.blogs.com/ is fairly silent on it, and steam seems to be picking up with the parrot backend.
23:31 lambdabot Title: Pugs
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23:33 [particle] markstos: pugs is all but abandoned, as nobody's made any pugs commits in a long time
23:34 markstos Is the Haskell backend not consided viable, then? I heard Audrey become ill for a while, and that was a factor.
23:35 markstos I was just starting to learn some Haskell. :)
23:36 [particle] it's viable, as far as i know. just lost steam when audrey got Real Life
23:37 [particle] it's been waiting on a new object model, and nobody's taken up the work of merging audrey's unfinished branch with trunk
23:37 [particle] (by branch i mean svk depot somewhere)
23:37 markstos Ah, sounds like sort of an important and complex blocker, then.
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23:38 markstos [particle]: thanks for the update.   Maybe I'll poke at some pugs some once my Haskell gets off the ground.
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23:42 cognominal_ Bonne année. Happy new year
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