Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2008-01-29

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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00:23 rakudo_svn r25322 | particle++ | [rakudo] add trait parsing to parameters, and routine/method definitions
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00:43 rakudo_svn r25323 | particle++ | [rakudo] parse parameter type constraints
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11:09 pugs_svn r19738 | ruoso++ | [smop] first prototype of the sm0p grammar. It should be fairly complete now...
11:18 pugs_svn r19739 | ruoso++ | [smop] added a sample sm0p code. The grammar should handle comments and empty nodes...
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12:08 diakopter that should be plenty
12:09 moritz_ thanks ;)
12:28 pugs_svn r19740 | ruoso++ | [smop] small fixes in the sm0p grammar by fglock++
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12:43 pugs_svn r19741 | ruoso++ | [smop] adding a version of the grammar that compiles in KP6
12:48 pugs_svn r19742 | ruoso++ | [smop] a test version using KP6 that compiles and runs... it still fails...
12:49 moritz_ ruoso: does that mean that a smop emitter can be implemented in the not-so-far future?
12:51 ruoso moritz_, yep...
12:51 ruoso but it's not a kp6 emitter right now... it's just a processing grammar
12:52 ruoso smop/sm0p/KP6Test.pm
12:52 ruoso sm0p is just a macro language... so a plain substitution grammar works
12:53 moritz_ ruoso: so what would that emitter emit? C code? or sm0p strings?
12:53 ruoso C code
12:53 ruoso like explained at http://www.jamendo.com/
12:53 ruoso ooops
12:53 lambdabot Title: Jamendo : Home
12:53 ruoso http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index.cgi?smop_sm0p_language
12:53 lambdabot Title: SMOP sm0p Language / Perl 6
12:53 wolverian ruoso++ # jamendo is cool
12:55 moritz_ so sm0p is a DSL for emitted C code, that is parsed by the C preprcessor, right?
12:55 ruoso kinda...
12:55 ruoso sm0p is a preprocessor in its own
12:56 ruoso the code it generates is plain C code, as if a person had written it
12:56 moritz_ ok
12:56 ruoso :/ it looks like kp6 quantifiers are not working...
12:57 moritz_ so kp6 would emit C + sm0p-DSL, and sm0p turns that into plain C, and runs it with help of the smop VM.
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12:57 ruoso yeah...
12:57 ruoso that is what the s1p language will be
12:58 ruoso because it's kinda hard to write code for sm0p in C
12:58 moritz_ and the one you are currently working on
12:58 ruoso sm0p
12:59 pugs_svn r19743 | ruoso++ | [smop] trying to make KP6 to run the sm0p preprocessor...
12:59 ruoso moritz_, please take a look at smop/sm0p/KP6Test.pm
12:59 ruoso you can run KP6_TOKEN_DEBUGGER=1 ./script/kp6 < ../smop/sm0p/KP6Test.pm from kp6 dir to test
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13:02 ruoso but kp6 * quantifier is not working... <ws>* <foo> is stopping when ws doesn't match...
13:03 moritz_ ruoso: can you call $string.frame? I expected $string ~~ frame or $string ~~ m/<frame> or something
13:04 moritz_ ruoso: and so for it can't match, because you have a <node>+, and the string doesn't contain a node
13:04 ruoso kp6 didn't have smartmatch when I last check...
13:04 moritz_ hm, ok
13:04 ruoso grammar.token() is the kp6 calling convention to call grammar tokens
13:05 ruoso moritz_, if you run it with the token debugger, you'll see that it doesn't even get to that part of the processing...
13:05 moritz_ ruoso: in the kp6 grammar they use <opt_ws> instead of <ws>*
13:05 ruoso hmm... let me try that
13:06 moritz_ and opt_ws is defined as { <.ws> | '' };
13:06 moritz_ that's a workaround around the non-working quantifiers
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13:07 ruoso moritz_++, nice... I've just got to the next token :)
13:09 pugs_svn r19744 | ruoso++ | [smop] one token ahead thanks to moritz++
13:15 ruoso lunch &
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15:13 pugs_svn r19745 | ruoso++ | [kp6] kp6-token-debug updated to the new script hierarchy
15:13 pugs_svn r19746 | ruoso++ | [smop] we are really close to getting sm0p to work!
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15:26 ruoso hmmm... it seems that I can't get a capture as an array in kp6 yet...
15:31 pugs_svn r19747 | ruoso++ | [smop] smop/sm0p/KP6Test.pm can successfully match, but the returned string is not being composed correctly...
15:33 * ruoso wonder if anyone else has played with kp6 enough to help me with that...
15:35 moritz_ ruoso: what output do you expect?
15:36 moritz_ ah, you want a 'node = SMOP_DISPATCH' instead of ' = SMOP_DISPATCH' i suppose
15:37 ruoso yeah... for starts...
15:38 moritz_ looking...
15:39 moritz_ in Grammar.pm the syntax $$<identifier> is used instead of $<identifier>
15:39 ruoso yeah... but there the return is always a match object for every token
15:39 ruoso here I'm returning string
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15:40 moritz_ and when I use $$<identifier> it complains about not having a .Str defined
15:42 ruoso I'm trying to define every token to always return an string...
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15:47 pugs_svn r19748 | ruoso++ | [smop] a small gain... at least something more is being output... Returing explicitly strings from each token seems to solve the problem.
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16:40 cj morning folks
16:41 cj does TimToady hang out here during the week?
16:41 moritz_ cj: yes, that happens ;)
16:41 cj well, I want him to review my notes on the conference so I can ask some questions on his behalf :)
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16:42 cj http://wp.colliertech.org/cj/?p=173 && http://wp.colliertech.org/cj/?p=174
16:42 lambdabot Title: The Pædantic Programmer � Blog Archive � From Lang.NET 2008 - Tuesday
16:44 moritz_ the second link doesn't have any content
16:45 [particle] cj: did the weathermen scare you with reports of up to 6" of snow last night?
16:46 cj [particle]: I never listen to them :)
16:46 [particle] yeah, they're so rarely right, except in the summer when the weather never changes
16:46 cj er, sorry... I meant 172 && 173 :)
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17:20 Tene pugs: $_ = 5; .++; .say;
17:20 exp_evalbot OUTPUT[6␤]
17:21 moritz_ wow
17:22 [particle] pugs: $_=5; .++.say
17:22 exp_evalbot OUTPUT[5␤]
17:22 moritz_ pugs: $_=5; .++.Int.say
17:22 exp_evalbot OUTPUT[*** No such method in class Int: "&Int"␤    at /tmp/uhYiqq8X6g line 1, column 7 - line 2, column 1␤]
17:22 moritz_ I think .++ is postifx-++
17:25 Tene moritz_: wow?
17:25 Tene pugs: $_ = 5; .++.say; .say;
17:25 moritz_ Tene: cool golfing possibilites
17:25 exp_evalbot OUTPUT[5␤6␤]
17:30 cj pugs: $_ = 5; ++.; .say;
17:30 exp_evalbot OUTPUT[*** ␤    Unexpected ";"␤    expecting ".", "\187", ">>", "=", "^", operator name, qualified identifier, variable name, "...", "--", "++", "i", array subscript, hash subscript or code subscript␤    at /tmp/XiDCypNJdh line 1, column 12␤]
17:30 Tene pugs: $_ = 5; .prefix:<++>; .say;
17:30 exp_evalbot OUTPUT[6␤]
17:31 Tene pugs: $_ = 5; .prefix:<++>.say;
17:31 exp_evalbot OUTPUT[6␤]
17:31 moritz_ pugs: $_=5; .postfix:<++>.say
17:31 exp_evalbot OUTPUT[5␤]
17:31 Tene pugs: $_ = 5; .circumfix:<++>.say;
17:31 exp_evalbot OUTPUT[*** No such method in class Int: "&circumfix:++"␤    at /tmp/keiaA9WyZE line 1, column 9-28␤]
17:31 Tene ;)
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17:42 mugwump pugs: $_=[1,2,3]; .post_circumfix<[ ]>(1)
17:42 exp_evalbot OUTPUT[*** No such method in class Array: "&post_circumfix"␤    at /tmp/jDIsavKtRS line 1, column 13 - line 2, column 1␤]
17:42 mugwump pugs: $_=[1,2,3]; .post_circumfix:<[ ]>(1)
17:42 exp_evalbot OUTPUT[*** ␤    Unexpected ":<["␤    expecting term postfix or operator␤    at /tmp/jamUfKp6gu line 1, column 28␤]
17:42 [particle] s/_//
17:42 moritz_ pugs: $_=[1,2,3]; .postcircumfix:<[ ]>(1)
17:42 exp_evalbot OUTPUT[*** No such method in class Array: "&postcircumfix:[ ]"␤    at /tmp/0Js9Ntx0XC line 1, column 13 - line 2, column 1␤]
17:42 spinclad pugs: $_ = 5; .postfix_meta_circumfix:<++>.say;
17:42 lambdabot spinclad: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them.
17:42 moritz_ pugs: $_=[1,2,3]; .postcircumfix<[ ]>(1)
17:42 exp_evalbot OUTPUT[*** ␤    Unexpected ":<++>."␤    expecting term postfix or operator␤    at /tmp/J0IyQIwDLn line 1, column 32␤]
17:42 exp_evalbot OUTPUT[*** No such method in class Array: "&postcircumfix"␤    at /tmp/wnWNhiizXY line 1, column 13 - line 2, column 1␤]
17:45 spinclad pugs: $_=[1,2,3]; .postfix_circumfix:<[ ]>(1)
17:45 exp_evalbot OUTPUT[*** ␤    Unexpected ":<["␤    expecting term postfix or operator␤    at /tmp/Ac8KbcA38M line 1, column 31␤]
17:45 spinclad durn.
17:52 diakopter anyone here attending Lang.Net 2008?
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17:54 moritz_ diakopter: cj is
17:54 diakopter moritz_: thanks
18:00 cj diakopter: yeah, hi :)
18:00 cj anythign you want asked?
18:01 cj notes here: http://wp.colliertech.org/cj/?p=173
18:01 lambdabot Title: The Pædantic Programmer � Blog Archive � From Lang.NET 2008 - Tuesday
18:02 diakopter cj: not particularly, except does MS' open source lab still want to host a build/smoke farm for parrot and the perl6 implementations, like they mentioned [in private conversation] last year
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18:02 diakopter although it's probably not the right venue for that question
18:04 diakopter in conversations at Oscon, I should mention
18:05 cj diakopter: I'll ask around.  I don't know who to talk with, though.  Do you?
18:08 diakopter probably no one there
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18:11 diakopter moritz_: for future rakudo svn bot(s), all you need is an rssbot to watch/mirror this: http://parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/rss/trunk/languages/perl6  the committer userid is in the xml as well.
18:14 [particle] anyone write an rdf grammar in perl 6 rules yet?
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18:20 Tene Hmm.  That might be fun.
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18:24 Tene [particle]: xml or N3?
18:25 kyrbe left #perl6
18:25 [particle] whatever we can use to process feeds
18:25 Tene Oh, that was relevant.
18:25 Tene :)
18:36 moritz_ diakopter: I know, but since I already had a svnbot, it was just a few lines of config ;)
18:43 diakopter [particle]: if you're wanting to get at that rss feed, the rss template can be altered to whatever format - beit \n-delimited ascii records, if you want, I think.
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19:26 moritz_ pugs: (1, 2) X <a b c> X 3,
19:26 exp_evalbot RESULT[((1, "a", 3), (1, "b", 3), (1, "c", 3), (2, "a", 3), (2, "b", 3), (2, "c", 3))]
19:27 TimToady pugs: 1,2 X <a b c> X 3
19:27 exp_evalbot RESULT[((1, "a", 3), (1, "b", 3), (1, "c", 3), (2, "a", 3), (2, "b", 3), (2, "c", 3))]
19:28 TimToady the parens aren't necessary due to list infix predecedence
19:28 moritz_ I thought so, but wasn't sure ;)
19:30 cj TimToady: I built a source package of Microsoft's dynamic language runtime .NET libs :)
19:30 cj this should ease the process of building a parser that emits something can that run on .NET
19:31 cj http://colliertech.org/downloads/DLR/dlr-solution-1.0.tar.gz
19:31 cj it may require an svn version of mono and mcs to compile, though...
19:31 TimToady what dependencies does it have?
19:31 TimToady heh
19:32 cj TimToady: nothing outside of the core .NET libs
19:32 TimToady now you just need to write a kp6 emitter, or cajole someone else into doing it :)
19:32 cj yeah... I've got so many other projects on my plate... maybe I'll do enough to pique someone else's interest... that usually works, doesn't it? :)
19:33 TimToady are the 2nd life continuations real continuations or just database continuations?
19:33 cj hmm... let me ask #libsl and friends...
19:43 cj I'm sure they'll get back to me about it sooner or later.
19:45 cj TimToady: miguel made it sound like they're real continuations when he was talking about them.  They're expensive and slow, but stack frames can be frozen and thawed.
19:47 TimToady expensive and slow are probably okay, as long as we can implement gather/take with some other mechanism
19:47 TimToady we can also emulate resumably exceptions most of the time without really using continuations
19:47 TimToady *resumable
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19:48 * ruoso going home but still with sm0p matching but not returning a sane string...
19:48 TimToady so warn() in theory sends its continuation to the handler which calls it back, but all warn really needs to do is return
19:48 TimToady that's one of the main reasons for *not* unwinding the stack when you throw an exception
19:50 cj TimToady: is that the only place where continuations are used?  resumable exceptions?
19:50 TimToady gather/take are generalized coroutines, and could easily be implemented in terms of continuations
19:50 * justatheory warns TimToday
19:50 justatheory Erm, TimToady
19:51 PerlJam TimToday, TomTomorrow
19:51 TimToady but they could also be implemented in terms of threads, or in an event engine
19:51 TimToady I understand you used to coach a baseball team...
19:56 TimToady anyway, I know to to implement regex backtracking in terms of gather/take, so it doesn't need continuations necessarily
19:56 TimToady however, continuations are very desirable for many kinds of logic programming
19:58 TimToady and we need some efficient way of doing lazy evaluation of lists
19:59 TimToady and there are ways of looking at closures sideways and seeing continuations
20:01 TimToady but basically, Perl 6 tries to dance right on the edge of requiring continuations without actually doing so, which opens up many opportunities for doing something more efficient than continuations most of the time
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20:15 babbagelinden evening all
20:16 cj TimToady: babbagelinden is responsible for second life's continuation implementation
20:16 cj babbagelinden: TimToady is the primary author of the perl6 spec
20:16 TimToady er, yeah, that's me
20:17 babbagelinden hi tim
20:17 [particle] babbagelinden: his friends call him larry wall :)
20:17 cj babbagelinden: TimToady earlier asked... are the 2nd life continuations real continuations or just database continuations?
20:18 TimToady how would you characterize the limitations of your continuations?
20:18 PerlJam his enemies call him larry wall too
20:18 TimToady I usually just answer to "hey you"
20:18 cj "don't call me late for dinner!"
20:18 babbagelinden well, it's horribly inefficient as you end up copying the CLI stack to the heap as a continuation
20:19 [particle] urk
20:19 babbagelinden and it causes assembly bloat due to the generated stack frame classes
20:19 TimToady so you presumablyu
20:19 babbagelinden (which will be less bad with generic code sharing)
20:19 TimToady only when explicitly asked to do so
20:19 babbagelinden and managed pointers aren't currently supported
20:19 babbagelinden apart from that it mostly works :-)
20:20 babbagelinden and it works on any CLI runtime: .NET or Mono on any platform
20:20 TimToady but you wouldn't use it for, say, backtracking in logic programming...
20:20 babbagelinden i wouldn't use it if i was building a vm
20:20 TimToady if you wanted to evaluate many alternatives rapidly
20:20 babbagelinden but it's a usable hack if you're bolting someone elses vm in to your system :-)
20:21 [particle] are there bsr/ret ops?
20:22 babbagelinden the approach has been used a number of times to implement migrating agents in Java
20:22 TimToady here I reveal my profound ignorance, but does SL generally use its own VM or someone else's?
20:22 babbagelinden see JavaGoX and brakes
20:22 cj babbagelinden: the reason your team developed this was to save a second life character's state when moving from one server to another, wasn't it?
20:22 babbagelinden we were using our own vm
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20:22 cj babbagelinden: so it's probably optimized for once-ever-now-and-then use?
20:23 babbagelinden it's mainly to deal with migrating running scripts between processes
20:23 babbagelinden but it works well enough that we can use it for threading
20:23 cj TimToady: they are in the process (this very moment) of moving from their VM to Mono :)
20:23 TimToady are different VMs compatible at the continuation level?
20:24 babbagelinden yes, if you use a soap formatter
20:24 babbagelinden you could pass a continuation from mono to .NET
20:24 cj babbagelinden: that's pretty fancy.  migrating states between processes...
20:24 babbagelinden which would be fun
20:24 babbagelinden if you used a binary formatter it might work
20:24 babbagelinden but its less likely
20:25 TimToady my guys tend to like yaml, but it's like "whatever.." :)
20:25 [particle] so you can write it to disk, and save the continuation for after the processor has lunch or whatever
20:25 * cj grabs some lunch...
20:26 TimToady babbagelinden: thanks for the braindump
20:26 babbagelinden np
20:27 babbagelinden there are details on my blog
20:27 babbagelinden http://blog.secondlife.com/author/babbagelinden
20:27 lambdabot Title: babbagelinden � Official Linden Blog
20:27 TimToady I'm sure if I really knew what I was talking about I'd have more questions... :)
20:27 TimToady 'k thanks
20:27 babbagelinden you need to scroll back a couple of years for the theory ;-)
20:28 TimToady .oO(the Wayback Machine as continuations)
20:30 TimToady .oO(and whether First Life has continuations stored anywhere...)
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20:41 mugwump babbagelinden: Brighton is less than an hour from London?  So long as you're already in Wimbledon on the express to Brighton?  ;)
20:42 babbage it's 50 minutes from Victoria :-)
20:43 babbage and 0 minutes from the sea :-)
20:44 mugwump I seem to remember it took that long just to get to Guildford
20:45 babbage you need to get the right train :-)
20:48 mugwump ah, yes, my geography was being warped by travel maps
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22:53 AndyAway updated http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perl_6 to talk about Rakudo
22:55 wolverian alester++ # good idea
22:56 wolverian http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perl_6#Implementations might need revising...
22:56 alester The whole thing could.
22:56 wolverian yes
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23:11 obra http://ycombinator.com/arc/tut.txt - paul graham and rtm finally released a demo of arc
23:11 obra http://arclanguage.org/
23:11 lambdabot Title: Arc Forum | Arc
23:14 Juerd Just be careful not to make Wikipedia more useful than the Perl 6 sites :)
23:14 Juerd That'd add one more website to the soup
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23:16 alester Juerd: Why can't there be multiple websites?
23:16 Juerd There can be multiple websites
23:17 Juerd But a small group of people is working on them. Spending time on site foo means you're not spending time on site bar. There is very little overview, and even those closely involved with Perl 6 waste quite some tuits over finding information, and reading obsolete documents.
23:18 Juerd And instead of making the existing sites better (they're often no longer maintained by their original authors because of tuit shortage), our community prefers to add new sites.
23:18 Juerd This hurts. It does a great deal of damage to the projects.
23:19 alester In my case, it's a matter of tuits there.
23:19 Juerd The same problem is going on with Perl 5, by the way.
23:20 Juerd alester: I'm not saying anyone is at fault, or should have done something. Circumstances lead to other circumstances.
23:21 Juerd But it would be rather sad, IMO, to have a nice and shiny Wikipedia link, if there's not even a single semi-official (or regarded-as-official) Perl 6 site that has the same amount of info in a coherent way.
23:21 Juerd s/link/article/
23:22 namelessuser What would be wrong with making the wikipedia one just be the official one?
23:22 alester "just"?
23:22 alester How does something be official?
23:22 Juerd namelessuser: Their policies.
23:22 alester Never mind the policy, what is an "Offical Page"?
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23:23 namelessuser Jured:  Do you mean that they are a bunch of numb-nutz?  Or is it a copyright-type issue?
23:23 Juerd alester: I refuse to discuss the pros and cons of authoritative websites. I'm not sure myself.
23:23 Juerd namelessuser: Neither
23:23 Juerd namelessuser: They're an encyclopaedia. You can't use Wikipedia as a portal to link to all the other Perl 6 sites, for example.
23:23 alester Juerd: It's not a pros and cons.  It's a matter of what "officail" means.
23:24 namelessuser Jured: Ah, that's a good point.  I was thinking along the lines of making everything link back to them, but not being able to link away is a valid reason.
23:24 Juerd alester: Something that either Larry or a large part of the community endorse as the best place for info.
23:24 Juerd namelessuser: Please note that in my name, the "e" is before the "r" :)
23:24 alester But who cares if Larry endorses it?  How will people find it?
23:25 namelessuser Juerd:  Sorry.  My font is too small.  :)
23:25 alester Larry endorsing it doesn't help the question of "which site is official".
23:25 Juerd alester: Once there's an official, no, MAIN site, many of the other sites would disappear or link there.
23:25 alester If Larry says Perl6.us is official, how do people know that?
23:25 Juerd Currently, dev.perl.org is the kind-of-official place for Perl 6
23:25 alester Juerd: Or maybe they wouldn't.  Maybe the MainOfficial site doesn't get updated enough.
23:25 Juerd But it's illmaintained.
23:26 alester EXACTLY
23:26 alester You can't declare something to the the official anything.
23:26 Juerd And because it's not maintained with all (or at least lots of) relevant info, nobody uses it and nobody links to it.
23:26 Juerd Yes you can
23:26 Juerd Just not by yourself, unless you're Larry :)
23:27 namelessuser FWIW, the main reason I'm here is because the feel that I got from dev.perl.org was that nothing was happening, and I wanted to see for myself.
23:27 Juerd namelessuser: I hear that a lot.
23:27 alester No, even if Larry syas "this is official" that doesn't mean it gets maintained.
23:27 alester Who maintains it?
23:27 alester Who says what should be on it?
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23:28 Juerd Even though I've had very few tuits I can spend on Perl 6, and waste most of those that I do have on IRC, many people in the Perl scene here see me as "the Perl 6 guy" and come to me with their complaints. I hear "nothing appears to be going on" a lot.
23:28 Juerd There is news one could find
23:28 Juerd But not where people look for it.
23:29 Juerd alester: I think a pumpking scheme would work.
23:29 alester Juerd: The "news one could find" is why I'm trying to funnel it all thru rakudo.org
23:30 Juerd alester: But rakudo.org, as you said, is going to be Rakudo-specific
23:30 alester Well, we take what steps we can.
23:30 Juerd And that's probably wise
23:30 Juerd But I myself have no idea what kp6 really is, and why/if it's relevant.
23:31 Juerd Pugs has not been going anywhere without Audrey, but in many places Pugs is linked to as if it's "the" Perl 6 implementation
23:32 alester The "linked to as THE" problem will go away as Rakudo moves forward.
23:32 Juerd I think that maintaining the web of information would be much easier if it wouldn't be spread all over the interweb.
23:32 alester SO much of this is organic.
23:32 Juerd Yes, it's organic.
23:32 alester You can't stop the spread of it.
23:32 alester So don't try.
23:32 Juerd Oh, I'm sure I can't.
23:32 alester Instead, prune and aim.
23:33 Juerd If I could I'd have done it.
23:33 Juerd But that doesn't mean we, as a community, should just forget about trying to fix this real problem.
23:33 Juerd Even if we can't fix it, and if we're sure it will get worse, we can do our best to make sure it doesn't get worse than it has to.
23:33 alester You sound like a Perlbuzz article waiting to happen.
23:34 alester Whyncha write up your thoughts on this and I'll post it.
23:34 Juerd Perlbuzz itself is an example of the problem, to be honest.
23:34 Juerd Don't get me wrong, I do love perlbuzz :)
23:34 alester If the One Single Source of information is suboptimal, then new solutions grow around it.
23:34 alester And so it did.
23:35 Juerd Yes, because nobody who controls the one single source appears to notice that it's insufficient
23:35 alester Right.
23:35 Juerd But why is this so in our community, but not in several other communities?
23:35 alester Juerd: I don't have an answer for that.
23:35 Juerd I think I do.
23:35 alester I suspect that you're incorrect in your premise.
23:36 Juerd But nobody will like it. Hoping I will be corrected: we fear communication, but most of all: we're afraid to give up control.
23:36 alester Juerd: I have to run.  Let's talk more about this.  I do want to.
23:36 Juerd Sure
23:36 alester Control to who?
23:36 Juerd Bye :)
23:36 alester Who gets to control use.perl.org?
23:36 Juerd Control to those who ask for it.
23:36 alester So whoever wants to overhaul use.perl.org gets to do so?
23:36 alester "Hey, we're getting rid of Slash, it sucks."
23:37 Juerd There's someone who owns perl6.org, who has good intentions, but he really doesn't want to give it to the people who work on Perl 6 day to day.
23:37 alester Slash is one of the key things I saw on use.perl.org, and I knew it would never change.
23:37 alester So given that, what could I do?
23:37 alester And why SHOULD pudge hand over the reins?
23:37 Juerd Well, use.perl/perlbuzz are not a problem :)
23:37 Juerd Can't have any single news source
23:37 alester OK, I really have to go/.
23:37 alester seeya
23:38 Juerd BTW, on rereading perlbuzz, I realise that I had that in my mind wrong
23:39 Juerd It's a blog
23:39 Juerd use.perl.org is not a blog
23:39 Juerd use.perl.org is a microcommunity
23:39 Juerd ... of blogs :)
23:40 Juerd The /content/ of perlbuzz could easily go into use.perl.org (not layout, not purpose, etcetera), in a user journal
23:41 Juerd I'm not saying it should
23:41 Juerd But in general (except from third party articles) it could just be andy's journal on use.perl
23:42 Juerd Oh, if I'm talking to an empty channel anyway, I want to point out that I don't like that search.cpan.org isn't just cpan.org
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