Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2008-03-26

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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01:59 pugs_svnbot r20172 | putter++ | [STD_red] --dump5 now escapes sigils in "" strings.  use() and no() given a nofat_space endsym (but the rest of statement_control, not yet).
01:59 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/20172
01:59 lambdabot Title: Changeset 20172 - Pugs - Trac
02:08 pugs_svnbot r20173 | putter++ | [elf_a] Can now declare locals "my $^x", and assign to attributes "$.x = 3".
02:08 pugs_svnbot r20173 | putter++ | [elf_b] Starting work on ast to ir conversion.  New p6 ast_to_ir.pl and ast_handlers.pl.  They compile (noisily), but don't run yet.
02:08 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/20173
02:08 lambdabot Title: Changeset 20173 - Pugs - Trac
02:13 mncharity and twice used workarounds, rather than prompting debugging of the parser. :/   but, progress.  hopefully have an IR tree in elf_b (p6) soon, then a similar exercise to this one to get emitting working.
02:15 mncharity if anyone wanted to look at elf_a_create.pl and elf_a_src/util.pl's unindent, and make something like it actually produce a properly indented elf_a_src/ast_handlers.pl, well, I'm not sure if it really matters, but it's ugly.
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02:20 mncharity elf_b_src/ast_handlers.pl is not (yet?) checked in, unlike it's elf_a counterpart.  ./elf_b_create.pl writes it.
02:21 mncharity good night all &
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16:23 obra I need a quick braindump for the historical record. I haven't managed to find an exhaustive list of aborted Perl 6 implementation efforts
16:24 obra Anyone willing to fill out, http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index.cgi?perl_6_implementations please go right ahead
16:24 lambdabot Title: Perl 6 implementations / Perl 6, http://tinyurl.com/34fg4j
16:24 obra anyone not willing to fill it out, spew at me and I'll update
16:25 PerlJam obra: there haven't been that many
16:25 PerlJam topaz circa 1998
16:25 obra PerlJam: topaz is already there ;)
16:25 obra I recall that simon did some work on one
16:25 PerlJam there was a perl6-on-perl5 that didn't go anywhere
16:25 PerlJam simon did a proof-of-concept thing
16:26 PerlJam it wasn't an attempt to get a perl 6
16:26 obra whose 6-on-5?
16:26 PerlJam obra: dunno.  It was short lived :)
16:26 PerlJam obra: do you consider pugs as aborted?  :)
16:27 obra So, there's "maintained" and there's "historical"
16:27 obra Pugs is certainly hovering between the two
16:27 ruoso I'd call them /in development/
16:28 obra I don't actually care about labels. Commit logs speak louder than labels
16:29 obra Mostly, I'm looking to help TPF get together a list of all the attempts that, say, to more than 100loc
16:29 obra ..or were written in haskell and got to more than 5loc.
16:29 obra since it's about the same
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16:46 ruoso obra, and 1000loc if C?
16:49 obra :P
16:57 TimToady 1000 lines of C macros can get pretty dense...  :)
16:58 TimToady and it's really apples to oranges to lump topaz in with anything post mug-throwing
16:59 TimToady topaz was in that sense only an attempt to reimplement Perl 5
16:59 TimToady so shouldn't be tarred with the same brush
16:59 rdice All help is appreciated.   Thanks folks.
16:59 TimToady it should be tarred with a different brush... :)
17:00 rdice <JerryMcGuire>Help me help you!</JerryMcGuire>
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17:03 diakopter TimToady: tarred as in tar-and-feather (!) or tarbaby?
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17:04 diakopter tarbaby - a situation, problem, or the like, that is almost impossible to solve or to break away from.
17:05 TimToady in any case, it got to feelin' real tarred and quit :)
17:06 diakopter hopefully not (re)tarred(ed)
17:07 diakopter the retarded tarbaby (retarded in the 'slowed' sense)
17:07 TimToady why in tarnation would you want a fast one?
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17:09 slavik what was the coffee mug incident?
17:10 diakopter slavik: http://www.mail-archive.com/perl6-meta@perl.org/msg00409.html halfway down
17:10 lambdabot Title: Re: Transcription of Larry's talk
17:10 slavik ty
17:11 diakopter TimToady: is that right?
17:14 diakopter rdice: now I'm curious why TPF wants a list of stalled/active implementations
17:15 rdice I'm trying to do fundraising for p6 and information about what p6 is and what implementation efforts have been put into it so far will be helpful in making a pitch for funding.
17:19 diakopter obra: there's redsix, a beginning of an implementation on ruby 1.9
17:19 slavik wow
17:19 * slavik wants to throw coffee mugs now
17:19 obra diakopter: just for the record "stalled vs active" was my description not drice's
17:20 obra s/dr/rd/
17:20 [particle1 pugs: stalled; rakudo: active; kp6: stalled; redsix: active;
17:20 exp_evalbot OUTPUT[*** No such subroutine: "&stalled"␤    at /tmp/Eeqis79sMc line 1, column 1-8␤]
17:20 [particle1 oh, bullocks.
17:20 obra heh
17:20 * ruoso wonders if smop gets into that lsit
17:21 [particle1 smop: stalled? i defer to ruoso
17:21 [particle1 i think the reasons for 'stalled' or 'active' are more important than the classification
17:21 diakopter [particle]: bullocks or bollocks?
17:21 ruoso well... I had just took another project that should consume almost all my time
17:22 [particle1 rakudo: active - funding. pugs: stalled - funding. smop: stalled - funding. kp6: stalled - funding. :)
17:22 exp_evalbot OUTPUT[Statement not terminated properly at line 1, near ". pugs: st"␤current instr.: 'parrot;PGE::Util;die' pc 120 (runtime/parrot/library/PGE/Util.pir:82)␤called from Sub 'parrot;Perl6::Grammar;statementlist' pc 15516 (src/gen_grammar.pir:2403)␤called from Sub
17:22 exp_evalbot ..'parrot;Perl6::Grammar;statement_block' pc 12687 (src/gen_grammar.pir:1389)␤called f...
17:22 ruoso the project is pretty much in good shape... and has a pretty clear roadmap
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17:22 [particle1 hey, evalbot! i put a leading space there FOR A REASON!
17:24 pmurias ruoso: what's your other project?
17:24 [particle1 ruoso, smop has an excellent roadmap. the detailed context will make it easy to invoke the frozen continuation when possible
17:24 ruoso pmurias, I'll be working in a web app for a company...
17:24 pmurias s/in/on ?
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17:25 * ruoso . o O ( that's the kind of project I would have rejected if that funding was approved )
17:25 [particle1 in. he'll be spinning the page view counter :)
17:25 ruoso heh
17:25 diakopter ruoso: duration of the web app project?  forever/indefinitely?
17:25 ruoso one/two months
17:26 * [particle1 wonders how perl 5 development was funded
17:26 [particle1 i realize the model for perl 6 development is quite different
17:26 [particle1 but it's before my involvement in perl, and the history interests me
17:27 * ruoso points that p5 had a considerably smaller requisite set
17:28 obra perl 5 also wasn't a from-scratch redo
17:28 * diakopter wants to see a list of TPF's grants and their success measures.
17:28 obra it was an evolutionary growth from perl 1.0
17:28 obra er. "it evolved from"
17:30 diakopter (not that past performance is necessarily indicative of the effectiveness of future grant committee decisions)
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17:34 diakopter looking at perlfoundation.org/grants, the past ones seem mostly effective
17:38 [particle1 i think tpf's goal is to support important projects that have a good chance of success.
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20:00 mofino CAN'T WAIT!
20:00 mofino :)
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20:17 Juerd TimToady: I lack tuits to fully read p6l, and I don't really understand the problem with parsing .[] and friends, but I really dislike the proposed \ syntax, visually.
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22:15 mncharity particle1, etal, apropos 'redsix active'.  redsix, a ruby 1.9 implementation of p6 (using a grammar copied from pugs), last saw active development in early 2006.  "stalled" seems the better description.  it occasionally gets moths brushed off.
22:16 mncharity some ideas from it went into a ruby kp6 backend, best characterized as abandoned and dead.
22:18 mncharity if elf achieves a usable bootstrap, STD development prospers, and p6 begins rolling along briskly again, another ruby backend might get done, as it seems to me an easy and fruitful runtime target, but its connection to redsix would be tenuous.
22:21 mncharity re tenuous, well, "inspired by", rather than any sharing of code.  some sharing of ideas.
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