Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2008-04-01

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:04 Gothmog_ In general, it's not possible to access the k'th element of a list without touching every element.
00:10 Gothmog_ s/a list/a sorted list/
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00:12 lichtkind Gothmog_: shure
00:35 lichtkind Gothmog_: gut nacht
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02:22 pugs_svnbot r20199 | agentz++ | feather/syn_index.html - claims that the index page itself is updated every 1 hour rather than a few minutes
02:22 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/20199
02:22 lambdabot Title: Changeset 20199 - Pugs - Trac
02:23 meppl good nighte
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04:20 pugs_svnbot r20200 | putter++ | [elf] STD_red r20198 forked to become a stable parser for the increasingly shushy elf_a and elf_b.
04:20 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/20200
04:20 lambdabot Title: Changeset 20200 - Pugs - Trac
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05:14 pugs_svnbot r20201 | putter++ | [elf_c] Created from elf_b.  Purpose is to refactor elf_b, gain the ability to easily create derivative implementations, and to support elf_d development.
05:14 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/20201
05:14 lambdabot Title: Changeset 20201 - Pugs - Trac
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13:04 Muixirt It seems it is about the right time to announce a new perl6 implementation completely written in assembler
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13:17 pmurias Muixirt: what would be the advantage of it being written in assembler?
13:18 Muixirt pmurias, speed?
13:19 pmurias over a C based one?
13:19 Muixirt of course
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13:20 diakopter pmurias: perhaps remember today's date
13:21 Muixirt pmurias, and a C compiler doesn't utilize things like SSE and MMX
13:21 pmurias pir is an assembly language
13:22 Muixirt that's right, you only have to invent a cpu for that
13:24 pmurias perl6 staying in pir would forever would be a pretty grim joke
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14:22 cj o/
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18:51 PerlJam er, wha happun?
18:54 kolibrie PerlJam: looking through the logs, looks you timed out and disconnected about 8 hours ago
18:54 PerlJam weird. All my other channels stayed up just fine (on this and other irc networks)
18:54 kolibrie that is strange
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19:08 gbacon People are strange / When you're a stranger / Faces look ugly / When you're alone
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19:51 pmurias mncharity: how will backends be written in elf_z? using multis
19:52 pmurias ?
19:54 pmurias pugs: eval 'say 3'
19:54 exp_evalbot OUTPUT[3␤]
19:54 pmurias pugs: eval :language('perl6')m'say 3'
19:54 exp_evalbot OUTPUT[*** Named argument found where no matched parameter expected: ("language",Ann (Pos (MkPos "/tmp/GsECZ3kcWa" 1 16 1 23)) (Val (VStr "perl6")))␤    at /tmp/GsECZ3kcWa line 1, column 1 - line 2, column 1␤]
19:54 pmurias pugs: eval :language('perl6'),'say 3'
19:54 exp_evalbot OUTPUT[*** Named argument found where no matched parameter expected: ("language",Ann (Pos (MkPos "/tmp/HPk2yxY9Z6" 1 16 1 23)) (Val (VStr "perl6")))␤    at /tmp/HPk2yxY9Z6 line 1, column 1 - line 2, column 1␤]
19:54 cj you're screwing up my screen session
19:54 pmurias cj: sorry
19:55 cj :)
19:56 pmurias cj: maybe you now what the valid incatation for evaling p5 code is? ;)
19:56 cj from p5? :)
19:57 cj from p6, I guess it may be something like C<<use v5; printf( "moo\n" );>>
19:57 mncharity pmurias:  re elf_z, multis, any way you want them to be? ;)
19:57 pmurias pugs: eval 'say 3'
19:58 exp_evalbot OUTPUT[3␤]
19:58 pmurias pugs: eval 'say 3','perl5'
19:58 exp_evalbot OUTPUT[3␤]
19:58 pmurias pugs: eval 'my %hash;$hash{a}=2;print $hash{a}','perl5'
19:58 exp_evalbot RESULT[undef]
20:00 pmurias cj: found it in the test suit eval(q/"self is $self"/,:lang<perl5>)
20:01 mncharity more near term, I'm hoping to do a new IR in the next day or two, plus some other bits, and then point out you can write something like http://svn.pugscode.org/pugs/misc/el​f/elf_c_src/EmitSimpleP5_fromIR0.pm and http://svn.pugscode.org/pugs​/misc/elf/elf_c_src/ElfC.pm and then just say  ../..../elf_d -x -o myownp6 MyOwnCompiler.pm .
20:01 lambdabot http://tinyurl.com/2t6a88
20:01 cj pmurias: nice
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20:03 mncharity where MyOwnCompiler.pm is of course welcome to look just like ElfC.pm but for whichever modules you wish to swap out.  it could also be nice to have   class MyEmitter is TheElfDEmitter { ... just a few changes if you like ... }, but we'll see.
20:03 cj mncharity: yes, yes, yes.
20:04 mncharity :)
20:04 cj does MyOwnCompiler.pm inherit from SomeGenericCompiler.pm?
20:07 mncharity at the moment, well, ElfC.pm doesn't do anything.  it's a list of use()s.  but the very short-term intent is for ElfC.pm to merely be a convenience hack.  "you've asked for whole program compilation of ElfC.pm, and I see it use()s these other modules, so I'll compile them too".  advantage over "here is a list of files" is that the modules are free themselves to use(),
20:07 cj mncharity: why doesn't the kp6 guy ever hang out here?
20:07 pmurias cj: fglock?
20:07 cj yes, him
20:07 mncharity and thus refactor without impacting users, and it permits using -I to override modules.  eh, it's a hack.  but seemed pretty, perhaps convenient, and not entirely unprincipled.
20:09 mncharity re fglock, no idea.
20:11 mncharity though for myself, I've followed a "work on some p6 thing intensively for a while, which becomes increasingly unattractive as it bogs down or fails to attract interest, or the apparent need for it goes away, or life demands more attention, and so I'm not around much" pattern over the years.
20:13 cj yes... I have that problem, too... but I don't realize when life is trying to get my attention and end up losing out on that instead.  oops.
20:14 pmurias perl elf_c -e 'say 3'
20:14 pmurias Can't call method "elems" on unblessed reference at elf_c line 1756.
20:16 pmurias mncharity: will the "DSLs" stay in higher elf version or will the be replace by higher forms of (meta)programming?
20:49 mncharity re oops, lol.  oh yeah.
20:50 mncharity pmurias: sorry, I was off having an elf conversation in #parrot.   re elf_c, checking...
20:50 mncharity re DSLs, bbiam
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20:52 mncharity perl elf_c -e 'say 3'  gives me 3 for both 5.8.8 and 5.10.0 .  with elf_c from r20201.  Though 5.10 decorates it with "v-string in use/require non-portable at /usr/local/lib/perl5/site_p​erl/5.10.0/autobox/Core.pm line 16.". :/
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20:53 mncharity pmurias: do you have the current version of autoload, autoload::Core?
20:53 mncharity elems is coming from autoload::Core, and that sounds like a "autoload intervention isn't happening" issue.
20:55 mncharity pmurias: sorry about the 1/2 latency on my response. :(   the have multiple simultaneous irc channel conversations is a "skill I have no trace of but really should develop". :/
20:55 mncharity *1/2 hour
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21:14 mncharity re DSLs, the current plan is for the ast-to-ir-handlers, and the core ir node code writing, to remain metaprogrammed, but become file-specific (rather all being together, as in the current elf_b_create.pl), and the resulting code being checked in.  so people who use those modules don't have to care how the module is being written/maintained (any more than CPAN authors do).
21:14 mncharity s/authors/users/
21:15 mncharity I'm slightly tempted by making the dsl's look like p6 code with macros.  but I don't think the cost/benefit is worth it yet.
21:25 mncharity so I spent some of today on #parrot, answering questions about elf and such.  There's a log at http://www.parrotcode.org/misc/parrotsketch-lo​gs/irclog.parrot-200804/irclog.parrot.20080401 , but it's not easily readable.  not sure it really matters, but fyi.
21:25 lambdabot http://tinyurl.com/3bkv6o
21:33 mncharity looks like svnbot might be down?
21:36 mncharity svnbot is either down, or now has significantly greater latency than previously.
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21:36 mncharity Juerd, etal?: ^^^ fyi.
21:37 mncharity irc is almost as bad as meetings.  T+2ish hrs, and barely a line of code which didn't exist at T.  :/
21:45 mncharity anyway, the last three, well, three of the recent svn checkins were adding Moose and autobox version checking to elf_b and elf_c.  pmurias++
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22:00 * diakopter resurrects pugs_svnbot, which never rejoined this morning after the transitory feather hiccup.
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22:17 mncharity diakopter++
22:17 * mncharity rewelcomes our svnbot overlord.
22:45 pugs_svnbot r20205 | putter++ | [elf_d] begins with Notes.txt - an unexamined pile of assorted p6 IR node sets.
22:45 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/20205
22:45 lambdabot Title: Changeset 20205 - Pugs - Trac
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Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo