Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2008-04-07

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

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02:38 meppl good night
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10:25 rindolf Hi all.
10:26 rindolf Which language or technology inspired Perl 6's junctions ?
10:26 b_jonas rindolf: a perl5 module
10:26 b_jonas Quantum::Superpositions
10:27 rindolf b_jonas: ah.
10:27 b_jonas by Damian
10:27 rindolf b_jonas: was it original to Q::S, or was Q::S inspired by something else?
10:30 rindolf b_jonas: hmmm... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perl_6#Junctions
10:30 rindolf Seems like an original concept to Perl 6.
10:31 b_jonas I don't know
10:31 b_jonas I think they're a bad idea the way they are
10:31 rindolf b_jonas: why?
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12:22 Juerd dalek: The memory leak(s) in botnix must be fixed or worked around
12:23 Juerd dalek: At this rate, in a few days it'll crash feather again.
12:27 Grrrr b_jonas: I believe that Icon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icon_programming_language) has constructs similar to junctions
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12:44 moritz_ re
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13:11 pugs_svnbot r20243 | moritz++ | [STD.pm] more perlhints
13:11 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/20243
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14:24 diakopter Juerd: yeah
14:24 Juerd PID USER      PR  NI  VIRT  RES  SHR S %CPU %MEM    TIME+  COMMAND
14:24 Juerd 7185 dalek     15   0  366m 346m 3772 S    0 13.9   0:59.00 botnix
14:24 diakopter Juerd: a scheduled restart every night would be a decent workaround.  Just have to figure out the right signal.
14:24 Juerd 16:24:52 up 18:34,  5 users,  load average: 0.00, 0.01, 0.00
14:25 Juerd Well, if it uses 346 MB ram in less than a day, I'd prefer a real solution or a restart every 12 hours.
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14:26 diakopter Juerd: yeah.
14:27 Juerd What is botnix anyway? :)
14:33 allbery_b <Grrrr> b_jonas: I believe that Icon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icon_programming_language) has constructs similar to junctions
14:34 allbery_b hm.  more that the evaluation model makes any "or" a junction (and any list a nondeterminacy monad a la Haskell)
14:38 diakopter it's this perl ircbot framework
14:38 diakopter it replaced svnbotl on #parrot
14:40 diakopter because it polls/parses http://parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/rss instead of hitting the subversion repository (as well)
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16:18 TimToady allbery_b: it's more like icon relies on success/failure as indicated by unthrown exceptions to implement a kind of short-circuit or
16:19 TimToady but the order of "or" is still strict, unlike junctions
16:19 TimToady from my vague recollections...
16:20 TimToady and it parses very differently from junctions
16:21 TimToady my impression is that $a == 1 | 2 | 3 parses == tighter, but I could be misremembering that...
16:22 TimToady it's been a *long* time since I looked at Icon...
16:22 [particle1 anybody here want to mentor a google summer of code student who wants to extend the perl 6 test suite?
16:23 moritz_ what does "mentoring" involve?
16:23 [particle] i was hoping you'd speak up :)
16:23 moritz_ [particle]: but you hoped I'd consent? ;-9
16:23 TimToady I know what mentoring involves, but I'm no good at it.  :)
16:23 [particle] i expect that will follow shortly :)
16:24 [particle] i'll give you a link to read, moritz_
16:24 moritz_ [particle]: ok. in principle[tm] I'm available, and I know the infrastructure, but I'm not very good in the technical details
16:25 [particle] moritz_: basically keeping the student on track with his plan. getting weekly status. answering questions.
16:26 moritz_ sounds possible
16:27 [particle] moritz_: http://groups.google.com/group/google-summer-of-code-announce/web/guide-to-the-gsoc-web-app-for-mentors-and-organization-administrators
16:28 [particle] every mentor will have a backup
16:28 pmurias joined #perl6
16:28 [particle] and yes, pmurias can be your backup :)
16:28 [particle] what did i say?
16:28 [particle] moritz_: good luck to your SO
16:29 moritz_ [particle]: thanks.
16:29 moritz_ [particle]: ok, I'm your man
16:30 [particle] thanks! sign up there, and join irc.perl.org#soc, and join the perl soc mailing list. i'll grab you a link in a sec
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16:31 [particle] http://hexten.net/mailman/listinfo/psoc
16:31 TimToady moritz_ += (1..100).pick
16:32 TimToady and I'll be glad to provide some technical backup, of course
16:32 moritz_ pugs: say (1..100).pick
16:32 exp_evalbot OUTPUT[21␤]
16:33 [particle] blackjack!
16:33 moritz_ [particle]: half the truth!
16:35 TimToady hmm, if 42 the meaning of everything, and whether something is true/false is 50/50, then maybe 21 is the whole truth...
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16:56 pmurias [particle]: you meant pmichaud ? (i don't know the test suit well)
16:57 [particle] no, i meant you, because you entered the channel at just the right moment.
16:57 [particle] just teasing you.
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17:34 cognominal_ TimToady: what is the convention to say the compiler, there is no inner eval, I won't use OUTER::, I will not keep reference around ....,   so the compiler can use non PMC registers when appropriate instead of shoving every lexical in a PMC
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17:37 TimToady there is no such convention.  that's why it's called *auto*-boxing...
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17:38 cognominal_ but for performance sake, we may want to avoid always dealing with the lexpad.
17:38 cognominal_ say we want to calculate fibonacci numbers...
17:39 cognominal_ currently in rakudo, everything is boxed
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17:41 cognominal_ well, everything but params
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18:04 pugs_svnbot r20244 | mj41++ | Renamed to TapTinder and moved.
18:04 pugs_svnbot r20244 | mj41++ | * http://mj41.cz/wiki/TapTinder
18:04 pugs_svnbot r20244 | mj41++ | * http://pr.perl6.cz/svn/taptinder/trunk/
18:04 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/20244
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18:15 allbery_b TimToady: it does, yes.  but the eval model isn't just about unthrown exceptions; *every* expression node is a restartable generator.  most of course trivially produce only one value then fail, but that every expression node i a generator makes unthrown exceptions and junction-like behavior possible
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20:11 pmurias @tell mncharity could use make a list of things you want to use Moose for (i'll try to figure out how to do them in pure p5)
20:11 lambdabot Consider it noted.
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20:18 stevan_ pmurias: I already talked to mncharity about that,.. i think Class::Accessor would fit all his Moose uses
20:18 stevan_ it doesnt make sense to use Moose if you are not taking advantage of the features
20:21 [particle] moose!
20:22 PerlJam It's too bad Joose wasn't named Goose as I had some good suessian stuff to use on it (from The Sleep Book)
20:22 pmurias stevan_: emitting plain perl5 accesors is not a problem
20:23 jrockway if someone writes a new object system for Groovy it could be called Goose
20:24 pmurias sub foo {if (defined $_[1]) {$_[0]{'foo'} = $_[1] } else {$_[0]{'foo'} = $_[1]}}
20:24 PerlJam that would be perfect in conjunction with Joose as I could talk about Mooses drinking moose joose and gooses drinking goose joose   :)
20:29 stevan_ pmurias: yes, and thats pretty much all you guys are using Moose for. its an awful lot of overhead for something as simple as that
20:29 stevan_ pmurias: oh, and also the constructors too
20:29 jrockway there is that new XS accessor module now also
20:29 stevan_ pmurias: also, ditching autobox will help too
20:30 stevan_ yeah, what jrockway said ^^
20:30 stevan_ Object::Tiny!
20:38 pugs_svnbot r20245 | buchetc++ | [t/spec] STM should be safe for arrays and hashes
20:38 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/20245
20:38 lambdabot Title: Changeset 20245 - Pugs - Trac
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20:45 pmurias jrockway: XS accessor module = Object::Tiny ?
20:46 jrockway no
20:46 jrockway Object::Tiny is a joke module
20:46 jrockway AutoXS::Accessor
20:47 jrockway that is the xs-based accessor one
20:47 jrockway also Class::XSAccessor
20:54 pmurias stevan_: ditching autobox require a lot of static analysis or a boxing everythin
21:08 pmurias q:code :lang(Perl5) {...} seems a challenging problem
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21:48 pmurias working on elf and kp6 is a bit like http://xkcd.com/303/
21:48 lambdabot Title: xkcd - A webcomic of romance, sarcasm, math, and language - By Randall Munroe
21:59 meppl good night
21:59 pmurias meppl: g'night
22:00 meppl ;)
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22:15 deneme_ hi
22:16 deneme_ my problem is extending Perl i am writing a library
22:16 deneme_ where can I consult?
22:16 deneme_ there is an error
22:16 deneme_ that I can't recover
22:17 deneme_ Can Anybody help me?
22:20 allbery_b not here, this is perl6 development, not perl5
22:20 deneme_ It is a simple question about pointers
22:21 deneme_ where is perl5 channel?
22:21 [particle] #perl
22:26 pugs_svnbot r20246 | pmurias++ | elf - begining of a non-moose backend
22:26 pugs_svnbot r20246 | pmurias++ | copied version of the p5 one
22:26 pugs_svnbot r20246 | pmurias++ | constructors are missing
22:26 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/20246
22:26 lambdabot Title: Changeset 20246 - Pugs - Trac
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Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo