Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2008-04-25

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:15 meppl good night
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01:57 mncharity TimToady: re STD.pm, it looks like STD.pm is missing ::: :: : \s \S and regex_backslash on metasyntactic glyphs.  fyi.
02:35 mncharity TimToady: re STD.pm regex, the parrot tests assume :s is a valid regex_mod_internal.  is it?  are all the other external modifiers also valid internal?
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02:54 mncharity TimToady: re STD.pm, is regex_assertion:variable intended to parse '$3=(.)' ?  if so, how?  (given that EXPR doesn't like '.')  I can certainly kludge around it, but just what to make sure I'm not missing the point.
02:55 mncharity There's also  regex_metachar:var , but that's only taking a ':=' rather than a '='.
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02:58 mncharity actually, it looks like it can't be a regex_assertion.  so... it looks like regex_metachar:var has a typo - ':=' used instead of '='?
03:01 mncharity parrot rx tests++
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03:40 mncharity TimToady: in regex_assertion:ident , should that be <regex> instead of <EXPR...>?  to parse '<before \w*?etc>'
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04:23 TimToady mncharity: yes, should be <regex> after whitespace
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04:24 mncharity thanks :)
04:26 TimToady I'll have to look at the other things tomorrow
04:28 mncharity np.  most are just fyis.
04:29 mncharity regex_metachar:sym<$> perhaps needs an alternative to the <before, so it can match at eos.
04:36 mncharity re regex_assertion:ident, it looks like more than <regex> is needed, so <alpha-[x]> works.  perhaps <regex> | <cclass_elem>+.
04:50 mncharity There's an regex_assertion:sym<?> and <!>, but it seems <.> is missing.  ie, token regex_assertion:sym<.> { <sym> <regex_assertion> }
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04:59 mncharity hmm.  but there's already a  token regex_assertion:sym<.> { <sym> }, so I'm puzzled.
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05:03 PerlJam mncharity: I'm sort of writing a "perl 6 news" article for TPR.  Is there anything you can tell me about your work so that I can include it in the news?  If you write a paragraph or so and mail it to duff@pobox.com that would be great.
05:13 PerlJam TimToady: you too.  If you have anything news-worthy, send it to duff@pobox.com
05:13 mncharity regex_metachar:sym<$> might want to include '}' as yet another <before> clause.
05:13 PerlJam otherwise, I'm just rehashing the perl6 design minutes and other perl6 stuff I find
05:14 mncharity PerlJam: hi, re "perl 6 news" article for TPR, target audience?  objective?  example?
05:14 mncharity s/example/link to existing one/
05:15 PerlJam mncharity: I don't know yet, that's why I said "sort of".  There is no article yet.  If something comes together before the deadline for TPR, I'm going with it
05:15 mncharity :)
05:16 PerlJam Since it'll be the first perl 6 news for TPR (to my knowledge), I'll give a brief recap of what's happened since 2000 or so and then focus on what's happened in the last few months.
05:16 PerlJam (that's my plan anyway)
05:17 mncharity um... so is the 'never been done before' a general TPR news article, or EOF  ah, ok
05:17 mncharity "brief recap of what's happened since 2000", lol
05:17 PerlJam :-)
05:20 PerlJam one of my side goals is to let people know that there are other perl 6 implementations out there other than pugs
05:20 PerlJam (I'm not unbiased news :)
05:21 mncharity meaning rakudo?  or others?
05:22 PerlJam any and all implementations if I can
05:22 PerlJam especially those that have active participants
05:23 PerlJam If I don't get much input though, it'll become something like "Rakudo News"
05:24 mncharity active participant*s*, plural, probably means only rakudo (unless maintenance is included, in which case pugs might borderline qualify).
05:24 mncharity elf had two participants for a week or two, but the last week has had zero.
05:25 PerlJam well, then think of this as an opportunity to invite others
05:25 mncharity :(
05:25 mncharity :)
05:26 PerlJam anyway, tell me what elf is (via email).  tell me where it's going.  tell me something newsworthy  :)
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05:28 mncharity hmm.  Perl 6 has had such an extreme vaporware problem, I'm very reluctant to raise elf visibility outside a narrow p6 developer community until it is quite mature.  basically pugs-like in capability, or at least unambiguously moving towards it rapidly.
05:30 PerlJam perl6 has only had a vaporware problem because too many people didn't understand the scope of work required. Now that the scope is better known (even by the naysayers), it's enough (IMHO) to tell people "we're working on it and here's how"
05:40 mncharity hmm.  well, sounds interesting.  my inclination is to leave elf mention for a later time.
05:41 PerlJam okay, maybe next issue (3 months or so) if I can get myself to write another perl 6 news
05:41 PerlJam (if I can get myself to finish this one! :-)
05:43 mncharity re 3 months, sounds plausible.  though the newsworthy question turned out interesting - by line and character count, elf is ~5% the size of the pugs test suite.
05:43 mncharity parser and batteries not included
05:54 mncharity obra: re "10-line bootstrap" thought from this afternoon, looks like elf is 5-6 kloc.  :)   about half ruby parser and half p6 backend.  with half the p6 being metaprogrammed repetitive node code, and half being handwritten.
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05:59 mncharity re write/finish... well, sounds like coverage and objectives are still a bit fuzzy?  perhaps explore them further, and/or find someone to wear and "editor hat".
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06:07 mncharity TimToady: parrot has a test regex [ if :  not | ify ] which is supposed to match "verify".  perhaps just because it's late, I'm unclear on how that ':' gets parsed.  ??
06:09 mncharity also puzzled by /[ ab | abc ]: de/
06:10 PerlJam I'd guess that : has higher precedence than | if that regex matches verify.
06:10 PerlJam Though that doesn't sit right with my brain right now for some reason.
06:11 PerlJam mncharity: what puzzles you about the second one?
06:16 mncharity currently STD.pm seems to only accept ':' after a regex_quantifier (? * + **).
06:16 mncharity but perhaps I'm just missing it.  getting late.
06:22 mncharity TimToady: parrot's ./t/compilers/pge/perl6regex/rx_metachars has a line 'b |  | d                abc             n       null pattern invalid'.  is 'b |  | d' really a valid regex?  STD and the Snn definition of ** suggests otherwise...
06:25 mncharity TimToady: as a regex_mod_internal, is :i[1] et all allowed, or must it be :i(1).
06:25 mncharity *et al
06:31 mncharity good night all &
06:31 pugs_svnbot r20305 | putter++ | [STD_red] regex parsing tweaks.  working towards parsing parrot's t/compilers/pge/perl6regex/rx_*.
06:31 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/20305
06:31 lambdabot Title: Changeset 20305 - Pugs - Trac
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12:12 pmurias how much perl6 could be parsed by a grammar only using a T(DFA)?
12:14 moritz_ not much
12:14 moritz_ a DFA doesn't do nesting
12:14 moritz_ you can't even parse an arithmetic expression with a DFA
12:14 moritz_ I assume TDFA = tagged DFA?
12:15 pmurias moritz_: tagged DFA = TDFA yes
12:17 pmurias yes, i would be able to only parse a regular language :(
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13:18 pasteling "ignaciog" at 190.139.136.191 pasted "fake array" (36 lines, 495B) at http://sial.org/pbot/30890
13:19 ignaciogggg anybody can help me with a little array script?
13:26 [particle] that's not an array, it's a hash, btw
13:27 [particle] i mean, what you want is a hash
13:28 [particle] if you 'use Data::Dumper; print Dumper $info;' you'll see the structure of $info better
13:28 [particle] also, you're using perl 5, not perl 6, so you may get better help on #perl
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14:06 mncharity /me back next week.  fyi. &
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19:47 pugs_svnbot r20306 | particle++ | [spec tests] allow fudge and fudgeall to process arguments
19:47 pugs_svnbot r20306 | particle++ | ~ add --keep-exit-code to fudge, to allow implementations to report passing fudged test files as successful
19:47 pugs_svnbot r20306 | particle++ | ~ regenerate fudged files if fudge has changed since last they were generated
19:47 pugs_svnbot r20306 | particle++ | ~ default $keyword to and empty string to avoid a warning
19:47 pugs_svnbot diff: http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/20306
19:47 lambdabot Title: Changeset 20306 - Pugs - Trac
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Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo