Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #perl6, 2008-05-10

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo | Niecza | Specs

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:08 mncharity (t n+1) yet another odd pod comment construct:  =head1...=cut
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00:16 mncharity i think this was discussed recently...  is 'map:{3}' valid, or must it be 'map :{3}' (with a space)?  anyone know?
00:22 eternaleye mncharity:
00:22 eternaleye [Thu May 8 2008] [15:01:15] <moritz_>   we had the discussion what $obj.math:{block} means
00:22 eternaleye [Thu May 8 2008] [15:01:35] <moritz_>   and it turned out to be parsed as $obj.meth :{block}
00:23 eternaleye I'll pastebin the relevant porion of my logs
00:23 eternaleye *portion
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00:25 mncharity eternaleye: thanks :)  re pastebin, knowing the date, I can just check the log, thanks
00:25 eternaleye Okay
00:28 mncharity TimToady: (12) is the | in 'sub f(|$c) {}' parsed?  hint?
00:34 spinclad mncharity: re (10), @%(...) should be parsed @(%(...)) ?   -- (but then @@ is a single sigil? hmm)
00:34 spinclad (haven't looked at STD on this to see the issue...)
00:41 mncharity oh.  hmm.  that would be odd wouldn't it.  re @%() being @(%()), yeah, that looks like what was intended.   t/data_types/hash.t
00:42 mncharity try{ @%(a => <b>)<a> };  ok( $!, "doesn't really make sense, but shouldn't segfault, either ($!)");
00:43 mncharity but at least re STD, looks like a parsefail.
00:44 mncharity circumfix:sigil
00:48 mncharity TimToady: (4 addendum) also re fatarrow using <ident> for the key, t/spec/S29-str/split.t has a '1 =>'.
00:50 mncharity and STD_red non-choking on t/ passes 60% of files.  yay!  pause.  back to slogging...
00:55 mncharity TimToady: (13) ... let me know if you ever get tired of these ...   routine_def uses ident which is \w* so   'sub postfix:<!!!> ($x){3}' doesn't parse.
00:57 mncharity anything:whatever too.
00:57 mncharity not that I'm at all looking forward to trying to make such declarations actually affect parsing. :/
00:59 mncharity nothing like trying to duplicate it to remind oneself what an accomplishment pugs was/is.
01:01 mncharity rakudo: sub postfix:<!!!>($x) { $x * 2 }; say 3!!!;
01:01 exp_evalbot OUTPUT[Statement not terminated properly at line 1, near ":<!!!>($x)"␤current instr.: 'parrot;PGE::Util;die' pc 120 (runtime/parrot/library/PGE/Util.pir:82)␤called from Sub 'parrot;Perl6::Grammar;statementlist' pc 17896 (src/gen_grammar.pir:2659)␤called from Sub
01:01 exp_evalbot ..'parrot;Perl6::Grammar;statement_block' pc 14962 (src/gen_grammar.pir:1609)␤called f...
01:02 mncharity pugs: sub postfix:<aa>($x){$x*2}; 3 aa;
01:03 exp_evalbot RESULT[6]
01:03 mncharity rakudo: sub postfix:<aa>($x){$x*2}; 3 aa;
01:03 exp_evalbot OUTPUT[Statement not terminated properly at line 1, near ":<aa>($x){"␤current instr.: 'parrot;PGE::Util;die' pc 120 (runtime/parrot/library/PGE/Util.pir:82)␤called from Sub 'parrot;Perl6::Grammar;statementlist' pc 17896 (src/gen_grammar.pir:2659)␤called from Sub
01:03 exp_evalbot ..'parrot;Perl6::Grammar;statement_block' pc 14962 (src/gen_grammar.pir:1609)␤called f...
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01:14 meppl good night
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01:24 mncharity good night meppl
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02:35 mncharity svnbot definitely seems to be sleeping.  could someone wake it?  :)  thanks.
02:41 mncharity hopefully I'll have some time this weekend.  plan is to knock off a few more causes of parsefails, so we at least seem to potentially have a good set of accessible tests, then fork the next elf, and then begin knocking off test failures, fleshing out the compiler and prelude.
02:42 mncharity good night all &
02:42 Auzon bye
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11:52 masak I'm reading Damian's post http://tinyurl.com/5hm4ze
11:52 lambdabot Title: perl.perl6.language | Google Groups
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11:52 masak and thinking "God help us if we don't do like that"
11:53 masak is his post the "latest opinion" in the matter, or has someone else's superceded it since?
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14:38 pmurias masak: if i remember correctly Manhattan distance is not used this days
14:42 pmurias instead an ambiguity error is raised if one variant is not stricly better then all the others
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15:10 rindolf Hi all.
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15:32 pbuetow sup rindolf
15:32 pbuetow :-)
15:32 rindolf Hi pbuetow
15:33 pbuetow i hope i ll do more perl this summer, no time for perl atm :/
15:33 rindolf pbuetow: I'm fine. More or less finished writing a new essay.
15:33 rindolf pbuetow: called "Elements of Perfect Info-Tech Workplace".
15:33 rindolf pbuetow: ah.
15:33 pbuetow rindolf: cool
15:33 rindolf pbuetow: what kind of Perl?
15:33 pbuetow rindolf: can i see it?
15:33 rindolf pbuetow: are you a student?
15:33 rindolf pbuetow: sure.
15:33 rindolf pbuetow: http://www.shlomifish.org/philosophy/comput​ers/software-management/perfect-workplace/
15:33 lambdabot Title: Index of /philosophy/computers/software​-management/perfect-workplace, http://tinyurl.com/6o4kxz
15:33 pbuetow rindolf: yes, and that's the reason why i dont have a lot time left for perl, i am wriiting my diploma thesis in java.
15:34 rindolf pbuetow: ah.
15:34 rindolf pbuetow: I hope Java is not causing you too many problems.
15:35 pbuetow rindolf: "Objectoriented and synchronous Simulation of Protocols of Distributed Systems with GUI" <- Well it's not the official title, the official title is in german :)
15:35 rindolf pbuetow: ah.
15:35 pbuetow rindolf: well i've no problems with Java, everything works well :)
15:36 pbuetow wow 12 pages
15:36 rindolf pbuetow: I recall a commercial network simulator back at the Com-Net lab in the Technion.
15:36 rindolf pbuetow: the PDF?
15:36 pbuetow yes.
15:36 rindolf <pbuetow> rindolf: well i've no problems with Java, everything works well :) - ah, that's good.
15:37 pbuetow it's just a programming language. and i think, for this purpose (my thesis) java is better than perl.
15:37 pbuetow rindolf: did you write it for fun or for $job?
15:38 rindolf pbuetow: for fun.
15:39 pbuetow nice :)
15:39 rindolf pbuetow: and for profit.
15:39 rindolf pbuetow: well, PageRank, publicity, AdSense, etc.
15:39 pbuetow rindolf: my simulator will be open source too. but i've to think about a license. maybe GPL.
15:39 pbuetow so it's good for publicity etc :)
15:39 rindolf pbuetow: I also wrote http://www.shlomifish.org/philosoph​y/computers/high-quality-software/ and publicised it.
15:39 lambdabot Title: What Makes Software High-Quality?, http://tinyurl.com/5lxnq5
15:40 rindolf pbuetow: got a lot of publicity from it thanks to OSNews.com and other places.
15:40 pbuetow ah cewl
15:40 rindolf pbuetow: ah, do you know what the implications of the GPL are?
15:40 pbuetow i read OSNews.com too :)
15:40 pbuetow rindolf: well, the main idea i know
15:41 rindolf pbuetow: well, I had a good experience in them accepting some of my submissions.
15:41 rindolf Not all, but enough.
15:41 rindolf pbuetow: you realise you can only link to GPLed code if the code is GPL-compatible, right?
15:41 pbuetow after my thesis is done, i ll translate it into the english language (at least the simulator itself and short howto's)
15:42 pbuetow rindolf: yes, but i am not using any library, instead of Java's stuff itself
15:42 rindolf pbuetow: you mean, the Simulator is in German, now?
15:42 pbuetow rindolf: yes
15:42 rindolf pbuetow: yes, but other people may wish to use your code.
15:42 rindolf pbuetow: well, for standalone apps GPL is OK.
15:42 rindolf But for libraries it may be probelmatic.
15:42 pbuetow yes.
15:43 rindolf In any case, I'm using MIT X11 for almost all of my code.
15:43 rindolf Well, my original code.
15:43 pbuetow what is different from this lic?
15:44 pbuetow http://tmp.buetow.org/vs6.png <- first preview screenshot (after 2 weeks of heavy programming)
15:46 rindolf pbuetow: http://use.perl.org/~Shlomi+Fish/journal/36050
15:46 lambdabot Title: Journal of Shlomi Fish (918)
15:46 pbuetow in summer, i plan to extend Xerl (which is my own little perl script for my websites) so it can be used as a blog!
15:46 rindolf pbuetow: MIT X11 is practically Public-Domain.
15:46 rindolf pbuetow: I see.
15:46 rindolf pbuetow: ah.
15:47 rindolf pbuetow: I'm looking for a Blog Engine now.
15:47 rindolf pbuetow: but something more serious.
15:47 rindolf pbuetow: I Also need comments.
15:47 pbuetow rindolf: Movable Type?
15:47 rindolf pbuetow: and categories.
15:47 moritz_ rindolf: livejournal? ;-)
15:47 rindolf pbuetow: I tried MT and didn't like it.
15:47 pbuetow hm!
15:47 rindolf moritz_: I'm already on LJ.
15:47 pbuetow rindolf: has it to be perl?
15:47 rindolf moritz_: but I want something I can put on my hosting.
15:47 rindolf pbuetow: no, PHP and Py and possibly also Ruby can be fine.
15:48 pbuetow rindolf: my blog will be only usable via ssh and vi ;P
15:48 rindolf pbuetow: it has a weirdo static HTML caching thing.
15:48 rindolf pbuetow: MT I mean.
15:48 pbuetow rindolf: i have Wordpress atm
15:48 rindolf pbuetow: and it created many world-writable files.
15:48 rindolf pbuetow: ah.
15:48 rindolf pbuetow: WordPress has a lot of bugs.
15:48 pbuetow every other week security update, sucks :/
15:48 rindolf pbuetow: yes.
15:49 pbuetow but i want to migrate to my Xerl Blog. if it's ready.
15:49 rindolf pbuetow: it it upgraded as part of the OS?
15:49 rindolf pbuetow: ah.
15:49 rindolf pbuetow: I'll try out some other engines.
15:49 pbuetow http://xerl.buetow.org
15:49 lambdabot Title: xerl.buetow.org - home
15:49 pbuetow rindolf: if you do so, and like something, tell me :)
15:49 rindolf pbuetow: sure.
15:50 rindolf pbuetow: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIT_License
15:50 pbuetow ah thx
15:51 pbuetow may be one license which would fit too
15:52 rindolf pbuetow: the MIT X11 is the exact opposite in its FOSS philosophy than the GPL.
15:52 pbuetow i ll talk with my prof about the license. he just told me: public domain
15:52 rindolf pbuetow: it allows sub-licensing, which means you can make it proprietary.
15:52 rindolf pbuetow: do they have the PD where you're at?
15:52 rindolf pbuetow: MIT X11 is a pseudo-PD licence.
15:52 pbuetow PD?
15:53 pbuetow what's PD?
15:53 rindolf pbuetow: see the thread - http://use.perl.org/~Shlomi+Fish/journal/36050
15:53 lambdabot Title: Journal of Shlomi Fish (918)
15:53 rindolf pbuetow: PD == Public Domain.
15:53 pbuetow ah, lol
15:53 pbuetow ok
15:53 rindolf pbuetow: where are you located?
15:53 pbuetow <- stupid
15:53 rindolf What do you mean by WDYM?
15:53 pbuetow rindolf: Aachen, Germany (Most west City of Germany, Near Duesseldorf and Cologne). Right next to Belgium and Holland.
15:54 rindolf pbuetow: ah.
15:54 rindolf pbuetow: so I don't think .de has a Public-Domain equivalent.
15:54 rindolf pbuetow: you should use MIT X11 probably.
15:54 rindolf pbuetow: if you don't want to use the LGPL, GPL, SleepyCat Licence, etc.
15:55 pbuetow yes, and no beer license (i will get drunk every day, because all students are supposed to use my software in the distributed systems class)
15:57 rindolf pbuetow: ah yes, beerware.
15:58 rindolf http://people.freebsd.org/~phk/
15:58 lambdabot Title: Poul-Henning Kamp
15:59 rindolf pbuetow: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WTFPL
16:00 pbuetow rindolf: lol. hehe.
16:00 pbuetow rindolf: small 'throw away' programs of mine are mostly beerware :) but until now, nobody gave me a beer :/
16:01 moritz_ I actually published one (small) piece of software under the WTFPL
16:01 rindolf pbuetow: ah.
16:01 rindolf moritz_: I see.
16:01 rindolf moritz_: nice.
16:01 rindolf moritz_: did you Freshmeat it?
16:02 moritz_ rindolf: no. It was about 30 lines of perl code
16:02 rindolf moritz_: ah.
16:02 moritz_ something that painted a fractal in an unusual fashion
16:03 rindolf moritz_: I once saw a really badly written Perl script on Freshmeat.
16:03 moritz_ rindolf: just one? ;-)
16:03 pbuetow lol
16:04 rindolf moritz_: well, the one I looked at.
16:04 moritz_ could have been mine
16:05 rindolf moritz_: http://perl.org.il/pipermail/p​erl/2007-December/009338.html - search for rpmdig.
16:05 lambdabot Title: [Israel.pm] Some Links Related to the Conference Today
16:06 rindolf moritz_: it's unlikely to be yours.
16:07 moritz_ rindolf: I've freshmeated only one perl project of mine, and that has a Devel::Cover coverage of > 75% ;-)
16:08 rindolf moritz_: ah, nice.
16:08 rindolf moritz_: HTML-Widgets-NavMenu used to have a D::C coverage of 100%. :-)
16:08 rindolf moritz_: it used to have 297 (300 - 3) individual assertions.
16:09 moritz_ rindolf: my assertions are just "... or confess(...)" which naturally decreases coverage
16:09 rindolf moritz_: ah.
16:09 moritz_ Math::Expression::Evaluator (my first cpan module) has 100% coverage if you don'T count assertions
16:10 moritz_ but that's more of an academic exercise
16:10 rindolf moritz_: ah.
16:10 rindolf moritz_: I registered http://perl-speak.org/ yesterday. Hopefully tomorrow I'll start setting up a Drupal-based News+Blogs+Forums+Community site.
16:11 moritz_ anyway, I'm going offline now for some barbecue ;)
16:11 moritz_ good luck rindolf ;)
16:11 rindolf moritz_: bon appetite.
16:11 rindolf moritz_: thanks.
16:11 moritz_ merci bien
16:39 pmurias rindolf: what's the benefit of employes playing computer games at work?
17:07 rindolf pmurias: not all the time.
17:08 rindolf pmurias: if they're responsible they'll still do a lot of work.
17:08 rindolf pmurias: if not - they're not a good hire.
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17:17 rindolf pmurias: plus, doing non-work activities inspire the employees and gives them better ideas for how to be more efficient.
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17:18 rindolf pmurias: at my previous workplace, I sometimes cleared my mind by playing Sokoban and PySol.
17:18 rindolf pmurias: they didn't like the fact that people went by and saw me playing.
17:18 rindolf pmurias: because it didn't look like I was working.
17:20 pmurias i'm not suprised by this
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17:21 rindolf pmurias: I didn't play a lot.
17:23 pmurias at least for me computer games just tire me more, and people tend to assume other people function similarly to them
17:24 pmurias and solitare is the archetypical type waster
17:26 rindolf pmurias: I sometimes felt at work that "I need to play a game" and then I played it for a while (< 30 minutes) and then I felt I could start working again.
17:27 rindolf pmurias: for the record, I should say that they allowed browsing the Internet indefinitely.
17:27 rindolf pmurias: and I could also talk on Freenode without a problem.
17:27 rindolf In my current workplaces all ports are blocked except HTTP, HTTPS and SSH.
17:28 rindolf So I use SSH port-forwarding to connect to Freenode.
17:32 pmurias if you were allowed to whatever you please at work, you should be also allowed to do all your task fast and go home early
17:37 rindolf pmurias: well, normally there are more tasks to be done.
17:37 rindolf pmurias: I never had a case where I didn't have enough work to do.
17:37 rindolf pmurias: not even when I was writing Perl.
17:43 pmurias yes, but a person who can work with the same efficiency as you withought making brakes should be allowed to have a shorter workday
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18:03 pmurias mncharity: re "was working on" sorry for using the wrong tense ;)
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18:20 mncharity pmurias: np :)
18:36 mncharity TimToady: If you would like to change the current "I find 'em, you fix'em" approach to STD.pm bugs, just let me know. :)
18:37 mncharity TimToady: (14) stdstopper has a $ check, but if there is horizontal whitespace and/or a comment, that won't fire.
18:40 mncharity re 14, hmm, or perhaps I'm supposed to be eating the ws elsewhere...  :/
18:41 mncharity "every bit of whitespace magic is purchased with blood"
19:03 mncharity TimToady: (14) can be disregarded.  I'm still puzzling over the problem.  'sub f {} #x\n...' is failing in STD_red, unclear why.
19:04 mncharity TimToady: (4 addendum 2) also re fatarrow using <ident> for the key, there's also a  ($var => 2) in t/blocks/sub_named_params.t .  valid?
19:14 pmichaud mncharity:  ($var => 2) is valid Perl 6, yes, but I think that it may get parsed by infix:=>, if there is such a beast.
19:17 pmichaud don't see it in STD.pm, though.
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19:17 pmichaud (that should be infix:sym<< => >>   of course, but I don't have the ability to type the french angles in my current system)
19:17 mncharity pmichaud: right, thanks.  (4) may reduce to "there is no infix:[=>]" in STD.pm.  just a p5=> .
19:18 pmichaud well, generalizing <key=ident> to be a full expression might be problematic, which is why I think it's likely to be a separate infix operator
19:18 pmichaud and fatarrow handles the case of a bareword on the lhs
19:18 mncharity re type the french angles, I cut and paste them. :)   hmm, I wonder what the "you have gnome+emacs, and wish to type X" real solution is supposed to be.
19:19 pmichaud in vim I just do ctrl-k+<+< and it works great.
19:19 pmichaud I used to have X11 set up so that right-alt+,+, would do the same
19:20 mncharity that sounds like something for a "tips and tricks" page somewhere.
19:21 pmichaud in vim, ":digraph" gives a list of the various special keyboard constructs (all introduced with ctrl-k)
19:26 mncharity http://xahlee.org/emacs/emacs_n_unicode.html
19:26 lambdabot Title: A Emacs ELisp A Day: Emacs and Unicode Tips
19:27 mncharity ctrl-x 8 <  is « .  nifty!  danke. :)
19:27 rindolf mncharity: CTRL+K < <
19:27 rindolf vim FTW!
19:27 rindolf Or «
19:28 rindolf Compose+<+< using the X11 compose key.
19:28 rindolf I like Ctrl+K better than the compose.
19:28 rindolf But I don't always type stuff in vim.
19:29 mncharity rindolf: tnx
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19:31 pmichaud I used to have .xmodmap set up to assign my compose key to right-alt, but I can't find how I did that now :-(
19:33 mncharity oh, I had to do something like that fairly recently... let's see...
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19:33 pmichaud I think    "keycode Alt_R = Multi_key"
19:34 pmichaud nope, that doesn't work.  hrm.
19:35 pmichaud aha
19:35 mncharity xmodmap -e 'keycode  77 = Multi_key'
19:35 pmichaud keysym Alt_R = Multi_key
19:35 pmichaud works
19:35 mncharity 77 is numlock, which is a very poor choice, but that's the idea
19:36 mncharity ah, ok.  win.
19:36 pmichaud now I can do Alt_R + < + <  to get «  and Alt_R + > + > to get »
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20:46 pmurias ruoso: why is the responder interface supplied to the Node seperatly instead of being taken from the invocant of the capture?
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23:36 pmichaud TimToady: S02 has:   $args = \3;   # same as "$args = \(3)"
23:36 pmichaud I can't find where that's parsed in STD.pm
23:37 pmichaud actually, S03 refers to prefix:<\>, but that appears to be missing.  So I'll assume that's what is intended.
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