Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2008-06-18

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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00:28 * DietCoke yawns
00:36 diakopter DietCoke: auction won't start for a while, I think
00:36 DietCoke <shrug> I ain't goin. =-)
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01:37 diakopter kolibrie: yo
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02:39 kolibrie diakopter: yo
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11:06 pmurias TimToady: why do you mangle print instead of using perl5.10's say?
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14:24 TimToady pmurias: er, because I forgot that 5.10 has say...
14:27 diakopter sub say (@) { print($_,"\n") for @_ }
14:29 Lorn TimToady: does today will have IRC on tv? hehe
14:29 cj dvad`1trtdrqdrxtzyuogrtbdgty5fty784iop[kp/l.;oty8uieq/u'kpouy9nghuhguivhbjigknj
14:30 Eevee cj: this is irc, not a malbolge interpreter
14:31 cj scarlet is learning to type
14:32 cj ... so is her little sister... I have to be careful what state I leave things in...
14:33 spinclad diakopter: sub say (@) { print($_) for @_; print("\n"); }
14:33 diakopter spinclad: ok; that
14:34 rakudo_svn r28508 | pmichaud++ | [rakudo]:
14:34 rakudo_svn r28508 | pmichaud++ | * Update docs/spectest-progress.csv to 2008-06-18.
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15:02 moritz_ pmurias: re moving perlhints out of STD, you can, but it would make it harder to keep those up-to-date
15:03 moritz_ pmurias: the last time I discussed that (on p6l or p6c) nobody objected to having them in there
15:07 Gothmog_ diakopter, spinclad: Shouldn't that be more like: sub say { local $\ = "\n"; print @_ }
15:07 pugs_svnbot r20859 | moritz++ | [spec] fixed and fuged chop.t, patch courtesy of Raphael Descamps
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15:13 pugs_svnbot r20860 | pmurias++ | [STD5_dump_match] move out the actual match dumping into DumpMatch.pm
15:17 pmurias moritz_: is anyone other the you keeping the up to date?
15:17 pmurias * then
15:18 diakopter keeping the what?
15:18 pmurias perlhints
15:18 moritz_ pmurias: no
15:19 moritz_ pmurias: if it annoys you, move it to a single file docs/perlhints or something
15:20 pmurias i'll do it
15:20 pmurias are they used for anything?
15:21 moritz_ at the moment just a proof-of-concept search
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15:34 pugs_svnbot r20861 | moritz++ | [spec] fiddled a bit with comb.t
15:35 pmurias where should i banish them to?
15:36 moritz_ docs/perlhints perhaps
15:36 pmurias seen the anwser
15:36 pmurias ;)
15:36 moritz_ ;)
15:36 moritz_ or misc/perlhints/data or some such
15:44 pugs_svnbot r20862 | pmurias++ | moved perlhints out of STD.pm
15:44 pmurias nobody stops you from adding them while editing and banishing them before ci
15:45 pmurias why haven't you used them for something more complex then the proof-of-concept misc/perlhints? lack of tuits?
15:45 moritz_ mostly, yes
15:45 moritz_ rakudo's parse tree doesn't tell me which rule matched
15:45 moritz_ and I didn't look at other compilers in-depth yet
15:46 Lorn where i can see the last commit comments in the svn? does exists a something like svnweb of the repository ?
15:46 moritz_ Lorn: on irc.pugscode.org all the revisions are links to their changesets
15:47 pmurias do you have a working copy?
15:47 moritz_ the last one is http://dev.pugscode.org/changeset/20862 for example
15:47 lambdabot Title: Changeset 20862 - Pugs - Trac
15:47 moritz_ pmurias: of what?
15:47 diakopter TimToady: rjbs was just talking about role factories using Sub::Exporter; I was thinking that could be used to create parametric roles in Moose...
15:48 moritz_ pmurias: misc/perlhints/ contains a very simple parser of the hint files
15:48 Lorn pmurias: yes, but i prefer to view the comments in the web :P
15:48 moritz_ pmurias: you can enter '+', and it lists all tokens that contain a literal +
15:48 TimToady problem with parametric roles is that different types of arguments need different treatement
15:48 TimToady *treatment
15:49 TimToady (from the viewpoint of p5)
15:49 moritz_ pmurias: but the long term goal is to have it spit out html, where the whole source code is clickable, and each piece can shows the associated perlhint
15:49 TimToady biab &
15:49 pmurias moritz_: not reall hard
15:49 pmurias * really
15:50 moritz_ pmurias: and TimToady assured me that this information (ie parse tree + which text was matchted by what) should somehow be available for third party tools
15:50 moritz_ although it's not yet specced
15:51 pmurias the match object is speced
15:51 moritz_ yes, but it doesn't contain the name of the matching rule, for instance
15:52 pmurias it's not nessesary
15:55 moritz_ not necessary if I store the whole parse tree hirarchy
15:55 pugs_svnbot r20863 | moritz++ | [perlhints]
15:55 pugs_svnbot r20863 | moritz++ |  * more data
15:55 pugs_svnbot r20863 | moritz++ |  * removed ^=begin perlhints and ^=end perlhints lines
15:55 moritz_ but I would like to avoid that
15:57 pmurias why?
15:58 moritz_ because STD.pm changes, and I only want to update perlhints if the names of the rules chang, not the structure
15:59 moritz_ and because I have no idea how stuff will appear in the parse tree that is matched by the bottom-up parser
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15:59 pmurias have you seen STD5_dump_match?
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16:00 pugs_svnbot r20864 | pmichaud++ | Use "#?rakudo 2 skip ..."  instead of "#?rakudo skip 2 ..."
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16:02 * moritz_ b0rked that. sorry.
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16:03 pmurias it would be trivial to put a <span class="foo">...</span> around the text wrapped by rule foo, and then you could add a gui in js
16:04 moritz_ sounds like a plan ;)
16:05 moritz_ you'd need some name mangling for stuff like infix:<+>
16:05 moritz_ don't think that's a valid css class name ;)
16:07 pugs_svnbot r20865 | pmurias++ | removed a debuggin leftover
16:07 pmurias mangling routines are numerous
16:09 moritz_ @tell Auzon in types.t you used eval_dies_ok without quoting the test as a string. The lives_ok tests are fine, though
16:09 lambdabot Consider it noted.
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16:10 Auzon1 oops, sorry moritz_. ;)
16:11 moritz_ Auzon: no problem, just fix it ;)
16:11 moritz_ btw I'm very pleased with the tests you checked in last week
16:11 Auzon Thanks :)
16:11 lambdabot Auzon: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
16:12 Auzon @messages
16:12 lambdabot moritz_ said 2m 47s ago: in types.t you used eval_dies_ok without quoting the test as a string. The lives_ok tests are fine, though
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16:25 pugs_svnbot r20866 | pmichaud++ | Rakudo doesn't implement comb.
16:25 moritz_ pmichaud: why not just remove it from spectest_regression?
16:28 pugs_svnbot r20867 | Auzon++ | [gsoc_spectest] fixed function misuse spotted by moritz++
16:28 Auzon I also changed a rakudo fudge message to be more accurate
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16:55 pugs_svnbot r20868 | deven++ | Added myself to AUTHORS file.
16:58 pugs_svnbot r20869 | deven++ | Added quotes in case fudge path has spaces. (Tested on Linux and Win32 with Strawberry Perl environment, reviewed by Patrick Michaud and Jerry Gay.)
16:59 moritz_ deven++
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18:30 moritz_ #parrot-soc in 1h
18:30 moritz_ erm, #perl6-soc of course ;)
18:33 smtms in 1h? what does that mean?
18:33 Auzon in one hour
18:33 Auzon We're having a meeting.
18:33 Auzon Anyone is welcome to attend :)
18:33 smtms nice :-)
18:35 moritz_ only interesting if you care about perl6 test suite
18:35 TimToady ~.
18:36 moritz_ you know you're a nerd if you read ~. as "quit ssh connection" ;-)
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18:37 pasteling "ovid" at 91.84.126.204 pasted "Cannot make perl6 on OS X" (6 lines, 288B) at http://sial.org/pbot/31353
18:37 ovid I just grabbed and compiled the latest parrot from svn.
18:38 moritz_ ovid: maybe try #parrot on irc.perl.org, your chances are better there
18:39 ovid Thanks. I'll try that :)
18:39 moritz_ that being said, the perl6 executable has always been a bit buggy
18:39 moritz_ use ../../parrot perl6.pbc if you want quick results
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18:54 pugs_svnbot r20870 | Auzon++ | [gsoc_spectest] adding more tests for S02 variable name syntax. (added 2 tests)
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19:25 pmurias STD_red-- # returning matches in a stupid,ambiguous and memory inefficient way
19:26 pugs_svnbot r20871 | Auzon++ | [gsoc_spectest] added more variable name lookup tests for S02. (added 9 tests)
19:26 pmurias STD_red-- # in an ugly format
19:26 pmurias @karma STD_red
19:26 lambdabot STD_red has a karma of -2
19:26 Auzon heh.
19:27 Auzon Inanimate things usually end up with slightly negative karma, from what I've seen
19:27 Auzon while people end up with widely positive karma
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19:27 moritz_ @karma ack
19:27 lambdabot ack has a karma of 2
19:27 moritz_ ack++ # really cool tool ;)
19:28 moritz_ @karma C
19:28 lambdabot C has a karma of 15
19:28 moritz_ C has the slight advantage of a dialect not named C--
19:28 pmurias moritz_: there is a C-- language
19:30 moritz_ pmurias: but it's not so often mentioned here ;)
19:32 Auzon Indeed ack++ # better than grep, more concise than writing my own one-liner
19:36 pmurias Auzon: not giving people negative karma keep the atmosphere positive
19:36 Auzon Indeed, just an observation.
19:41 pmurias not sure how to name an elf branch
19:41 moritz_ pixie
19:41 moritz_ woodelf
19:42 pmurias ;)
19:42 moritz_ ork (they were elfes once, right? ;)
19:42 pmurias no, orcs were elves
19:42 moritz_ ork, not orc ;)
19:43 * moritz_ would also suggest zwoelf
19:43 moritz_ because elf is also the German word for the number 11, and zwölf (or zwoelf) is the word for 12
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19:51 * pmurias likes pixie most
19:52 * Auzon too
19:54 pmurias elf boostrap is broken :(
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20:14 Auzon perl6: say(1 .. 10 :by(3))
20:14 p6eval kp6 r20871: OUTPUT[syntax error at position 3, line 1 column 3:␤say(1 .. 10 :by(3)␤   ^ HERE␤]
20:14 p6eval ..pugs: OUTPUT[*** Named argument found where no matched parameter expected: ("by",Ann (Pos (MkPos "/tmp/lb1r3mZz0k" 1 17 1 18)) (Val (VInt 3)))␤    at /tmp/lb1r3mZz0k line 1, column 1 - line 2, column 1␤]
20:14 p6eval ..rakudo r28526: OUTPUT[Statement not terminated properly at line 1, near "(1 .. 10 :"␤current instr.: 'parrot;PGE::Util;die' pc 120 (runtime/parrot/library/PGE/Util.pir:82)␤
20:14 p6eval ..elf r20871: OUTPUT[Parse error in: /tmp/CxFpxAK72I␤panic at line 1 column 18 (pos 18): No previous operator visible to adverbial pair ([#<Match:0xb7cae2f4 @on_str="say(1 .. 10 :by(3))", @from=12, @to=18, @bool=true, @hash={:value=>#<Match:0xb7cae330 @on_str="say(1 .. 10 :by(3))", @from=13,
20:14 p6eval ..@to=18, ...
20:14 TimToady I don't think anyone really implements adverbs yet
20:16 Auzon perl6: q[test].say
20:16 moritz_ there's a lot of things nobody really implements atm
20:16 p6eval kp6 r20871: OUTPUT[syntax error at position 7, line 1 column 7:␤q[test].sa␤       ^ HERE␤]
20:16 p6eval ..pugs: OUTPUT[test␤]
20:16 p6eval ..rakudo r28526: OUTPUT[Statement not terminated properly at line 1, near "[test].say"␤current instr.: 'parrot;PGE::Util;die' pc 120 (runtime/parrot/library/PGE/Util.pir:82)␤
20:16 p6eval ..elf r20871: OUTPUT[Undefined subroutine &GLOBAL::q called at (eval 115) line 3.␤ at ./elf_f_faster line 4656␤]
20:17 Auzon perl6: sub foo {"bar"}; say "test &foo";
20:17 p6eval kp6 r20871: OUTPUT[test &foo␤]
20:17 p6eval ..pugs: OUTPUT[test &foo␤]
20:17 p6eval ..rakudo r28526: OUTPUT[test &foo␤]
20:17 p6eval ..elf r20871: OUTPUT[test &foo␤]
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20:18 moritz_ perl6: sub foo {"bar"}; say "test {foo}"
20:18 p6eval kp6 r20871: OUTPUT[test {foo}␤]
20:18 p6eval ..pugs: OUTPUT[test bar␤]
20:18 p6eval ..rakudo r28526: OUTPUT[test bar␤]
20:18 p6eval ..elf r20871: OUTPUT[test {foo}␤]
20:18 Auzon perl6: sub foo {"bar"}; say "test &foo()";
20:18 p6eval kp6 r20871: OUTPUT[test &foo()␤]
20:18 p6eval ..pugs: OUTPUT[test bar␤]
20:18 p6eval ..rakudo r28526: OUTPUT[test &foo()␤]
20:18 p6eval ..elf r20871: OUTPUT[test &foo()␤]
20:18 moritz_ rakudo++
20:18 moritz_ pugs++
20:18 moritz_ uhm, is that actually specced? ;)
20:19 Auzon Yes.
20:19 jferrero joined #perl6
20:20 moritz_ should be easy to implement if interpolating closures are already implemented
20:20 moritz_ it's just syntactic sugar, after all
20:20 Auzon q:f, implied by q:qq, which is done by ""
20:22 moritz_ all those quote things are really nice and very flexible
20:22 moritz_ but I don't really use them, because I've not yet learned them
20:22 moritz_ having an implementation might help
20:22 Auzon perl6: my $alpha = "foo"; my @beta = <bar baz>; say Qs/$alpha @beta/;
20:22 p6eval kp6 r20871: OUTPUT[syntax error at position 60, line 1 column 60:␤my $alpha = "foo"; my @beta = <bar baz>; say Qs/$alpha @beta/␤                                                            ^ HERE␤]
20:22 p6eval ..pugs: OUTPUT[*** ␤    Unexpected "@beta"␤    expecting operator, ":" or ","␤    at /tmp/WlFWXy86lF line 1, column 56␤]
20:22 p6eval ..rakudo r28526: OUTPUT[Statement not terminated properly at line 1, near "@beta/;"␤current instr.: 'parrot;PGE::Util;die' pc 120 (runtime/parrot/library/PGE/Util.pir:82)␤
20:22 p6eval ..elf r20871: OUTPUT[Parse error in: /tmp/BFIlMP99M0␤panic at line 1 column 41 (pos 41): Can't understand next input--giving up␤WHERE:  "foo"; my @beta = <bar baz>; say Qs/$alpha @beta/;␤WHERE:                              /\<-- HERE␤  STD_red/prelude.rb:98:in `panic'␤  STD_red/std.rb:76:in
20:22 p6eval ..`scan_uni...
20:24 moritz_ rakudo: say Complex ~~ Num
20:24 p6eval rakudo r28526 OUTPUT[0␤]
20:24 moritz_ rakudo: say Num ~~ Complex
20:24 p6eval rakudo r28526 OUTPUT[0␤]
20:24 moritz_ if that's intentential, the specs need updates
20:25 moritz_ specifically, all these nice multis need a Complex variant
20:27 Auzon perl6: my $a = "a"; say "$a.ord";
20:27 IllvilJa joined #perl6
20:27 p6eval kp6 r20871: OUTPUT[a.ord␤]
20:27 p6eval ..pugs: OUTPUT[a.ord␤]
20:27 p6eval ..rakudo r28526: OUTPUT[a.ord␤]
20:27 p6eval ..elf r20871: OUTPUT[$a.ord␤]
20:28 Auzon bzzt. all wrong!
20:28 Auzon oh wait
20:28 Auzon perl6: my $a = "a"; say "$a.ord(0";
20:28 Auzon perl6: my $a = "a"; say "$a.ord()";
20:28 p6eval kp6 r20871: OUTPUT[a.ord(0␤]
20:28 p6eval ..pugs: OUTPUT[$a.ord(0␤]
20:28 p6eval ..rakudo r28526: OUTPUT[a.ord(0␤]
20:28 p6eval ..elf r20871: OUTPUT[$a.ord(0␤]
20:28 p6eval kp6 r20871: OUTPUT[a.ord()␤]
20:28 p6eval ..pugs: OUTPUT[97␤]
20:28 p6eval ..rakudo r28526: OUTPUT[a.ord()␤]
20:28 p6eval ..elf r20871: OUTPUT[$a.ord()␤]
20:29 Auzon perl6: my @a = <a b c>; say "@a"; say "@a[]";
20:29 p6eval kp6 r20871: OUTPUT[@a␤a b c␤]
20:29 p6eval ..pugs: OUTPUT[@a␤a b c␤]
20:29 p6eval ..rakudo r28526: OUTPUT[@a␤@a[]␤]
20:29 p6eval ..elf r20871: OUTPUT[@a␤@a[]␤]
20:30 moritz_ interpolation is like russian roulette
20:31 Auzon No one wins at the end?
20:31 moritz_ well, $larry wins in the end ;)
20:33 Auzon It's going to be fun acking for these things to see what's tested. :P
20:34 jferrero perl6: my @a = <a b c>; print "@a"
20:34 p6eval kp6 r20871: OUTPUT[@a]
20:34 p6eval ..pugs: OUTPUT[@a]
20:34 p6eval ..rakudo r28526: OUTPUT[@a]
20:34 p6eval ..elf r20871: OUTPUT[@a]
20:34 moritz_ at least they all get that one right
20:35 jferrero perl6: my @a = <a b c>; print @a
20:35 p6eval kp6 r20871: OUTPUT[a b c]
20:35 p6eval ..pugs: OUTPUT[abc]
20:35 p6eval ..rakudo r28527: OUTPUT[abc]
20:35 p6eval ..elf r20871: OUTPUT[ARRAY(0x87dbc2c)]
20:35 jferrero ha!
20:35 Auzon nice one, elf.
20:35 moritz_ ;)
20:36 Eevee ha
20:36 rhr_ perl6: say 1.e+0
20:36 p6eval kp6 r20871: OUTPUT[no method 'e' in Class 'Int'␤ at compiled/perl5-kp6-mp6/lib/KindaPerl6/Runtime/Perl5/MOP.pm line 345␤
20:36 p6eval ..pugs: OUTPUT[*** No such method in class Int: "&e"␤    at /tmp/OdndVNDE1U line 1, column 5 - line 2, column 1␤]
20:36 p6eval ..rakudo r28527: OUTPUT[Method 'e' not found for invocant of class 'Int'␤current instr.: '_block11' pc 31 (EVAL_12:17)␤
20:36 p6eval ..elf r20871: OUTPUT[Can't call method "e" without a package or object reference at (eval 113) line 3.␤ at ./elf_f_faster line 4656␤]
20:36 Eevee that fills my whole screen
20:36 toddr joined #perl6
20:37 Auzon perl6: say "$?PERLVER"
20:37 p6eval kp6 r20871: OUTPUT[$?PERLVER␤]
20:37 p6eval ..pugs: OUTPUT[*** Undeclared variable: ("$?PERLVER",MkPad (padToList [("$_",PELexical {pe_type = (mkType "Scalar"), pe_proto = <Scalar:0xb689619c>, pe_flags = MkEntryFlags {ef_isContext = True}, pe_store = <ref:0xb68a1638>}),("@_",PELexical {pe_type = (mkType "Array"), pe_proto = <Array:0xb689...
20:37 p6eval ..rakudo r28527: OUTPUT[Scope  not found for PAST::Var '$PERLVER'␤current instr.: 'parrot;PCT::HLLCompiler;panic' pc 156 (src/PCT/HLLCompiler.pir:103)␤
20:37 p6eval ..elf r20871: OUTPUT[$?PERLVER␤]
20:37 jferrero perl6: print 1e+0
20:37 p6eval kp6 r20871: OUTPUT[no method 'APPLY' in Class 'Undef'␤ at compiled/perl5-kp6-mp6/lib/KindaPerl6/Runtime/Perl5/MOP.pm line 345␤
20:37 p6eval ..pugs: OUTPUT[1]
20:37 p6eval ..rakudo r28527: OUTPUT[1]
20:37 p6eval ..elf r20871: OUTPUT[1]
20:38 jferrero perl6: print 1.0e+7
20:38 p6eval kp6 r20871: OUTPUT[no method 'APPLY' in Class 'Int'␤ at compiled/perl5-kp6-mp6/lib/KindaPerl6/Runtime/Perl5/MOP.pm line 345␤
20:38 p6eval ..pugs: OUTPUT[10000000]
20:38 p6eval ..rakudo r28527: OUTPUT[1e+07]
20:38 p6eval ..elf r20871: OUTPUT[10000000]
20:39 donaldh perl6: print 1.2e+7
20:39 p6eval kp6 r20871: OUTPUT[no method 'APPLY' in Class 'Int'␤ at compiled/perl5-kp6-mp6/lib/KindaPerl6/Runtime/Perl5/MOP.pm line 345␤
20:39 p6eval ..pugs: OUTPUT[12000000]
20:39 p6eval ..rakudo r28527: OUTPUT[1.2e+07]
20:39 p6eval ..elf r20871: OUTPUT[12000000]
20:41 Auzon rakudo: say 1.2e+2
20:41 p6eval rakudo r28527 OUTPUT[120␤]
20:42 moritz_ rakudo: say 1.2e+3 + 1
20:42 p6eval rakudo r28527 OUTPUT[1201␤]
20:42 Auzon Mhm, so Rakudo is correct, just abbreviating it. Not too useful though...
20:43 pmichaud rakudo: say 1.2e+7+1
20:43 p6eval rakudo r28527 OUTPUT[1.2e+07␤]
20:43 Eevee given that there are already some p6 equivalents of p5 modules, what's the plan re perl 6 and cpan?  start fresh, use parrot to use p5 modules, or depends per module?
20:43 pmichaud ick.
20:43 Eevee on treo, sorry if I'm terse
20:44 moritz_ Eevee: most hackers dream of a p5<->p6 bridge
20:44 pmichaud I think "depends per module"
20:45 pmichaud but TimToady did work on the p5-to-p6 translator
20:45 Eevee oh I remember that
20:45 Eevee vaguely
20:45 jferrero Eevee, CPAN have perl6 code now... http://search.cpan.org/src/GUGOD/JavaScript-Writer-0.2.0/lib6/JavaScript/Writer.pm
20:45 lambdabot http://tinyurl.com/5sk4d6
20:45 Auzon If I'm not mistaken, different languages have different namespaces so you can 'use WWW::Mechanize:from<Perl5>'
20:46 Auzon S11:382 mentions that syntax...
20:46 Eevee I'm sure some common cpan modules could use a rethinking just as much as p5 though
20:46 Eevee oh interesting
20:47 Auzon The idea is that you can 'use Foo:from<LanguageX>', especially with Parrot's language support.
20:47 Eevee yeah
20:48 Eevee but that would still allow a clean break for a pure p6 rewrite
20:48 donaldh Yep, so it should be possible to use parrot libs in rakudo. E.g. use JSON:from<parrot>
20:48 Eevee cool
20:48 pmichaud I expect that to happen in the next 2 weeks.
20:48 Eevee does cpan have any way of differentiating between modules of the same name in different versions?  eg some repo has a p6 CGI.pm
20:48 Auzon Very cool, pmichaud.
20:49 pmichaud primarily because I want  use SDL:from<parrot>
20:49 donaldh pmichaud++
20:49 Eevee that would be awesome
20:49 donaldh That'd be nice.
20:49 b_jonas Eevee: they could be under different distribution names
20:49 Eevee and I spied a parrot-to-exe recently
20:50 Eevee we could have a p6game with easy windows distrbution before long
20:50 donaldh I'm working on a pir binding for Sqlite3 in the absence of DBI or DBDI. So I'd like use sqlite:from<parrot> too.
20:50 Eevee ah true.  could just do CGI6
20:51 Auzon See the CPAN synopsis (DRAFT) http://svn.pugscode.org/pugs/docs/Perl6/Spec/CPAN.pod
20:51 Eevee donaldh: might not be a bad idea to lay some groundwork for a DBI6
20:51 Eevee on treo, link-impaired
20:51 schmalbe There is CGI::QueryHash
20:51 Auzon Oh, sorry Eevee.
20:51 donaldh Yeah, there's an out of date plan of record by a DBI maintainer, I think.
20:52 Eevee but will try to remember to look later
20:52 Auzon I think the basic plan is for new CPAN tools to be built that understand multiple languages.
20:52 moritz_ that's correcty
20:52 Eevee merge pypy with cpan!
20:52 moritz_ s/y$//
20:53 Eevee call it cyan
20:53 donaldh http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.dbdi.dev/2004/01/msg8.html
20:53 lambdabot Title: Parrot DBDI Design Notes - nntp.perl.org
20:53 Auzon It can still be called CPAN :P
20:54 moritz_ CPAN has a good repuation, even outside perl world
20:54 Eevee cppan
20:54 Eevee throw in php, call it cpppan
20:55 moritz_ caan - comprehensive all-language archive network ;)
20:55 Eevee how's python on parrot support doing?  I seem to remember one yapc speaker said it was a bit primitive and not quite actively developed
20:56 Eevee c*an
20:56 donaldh Am I right in understanding that Perl 6 will allow switching to different grammars mid module?
20:56 pmurias yes
20:56 donaldh Does that open the door for supporting inline XML a la javascript?
20:56 pmurias yes
20:56 Eevee oh god
20:56 pmurias no
20:56 pmurias t
20:56 pmurias xml is ugly
20:57 Eevee perl 5 lets you shoot yourself in the foot
20:57 moritz_ multiple times ;)
20:57 donaldh but a necessary evil
20:57 Eevee perl 6 upgrades you to a cannon and lets you shoot everyone else's feet too
20:57 pmurias Eevee: i read god as good ;)
20:57 donaldh pmurias: you've lost me
20:58 Eevee my first thought on seeing the switching grammar example was "hey cool"
20:58 Eevee second thought, "some idot is going to fuck this up"
20:58 Eevee +i
20:58 pmurias donaldh: i meant inline XML isn't good
20:58 xdg left #perl6
20:58 Tene use xmlmagic; my $xml = <item><foo>bleh</foo><bar id="nob">baz</bar></item>
20:59 pmurias why not just use Captures?
20:59 donaldh useful for scripting things though
20:59 b_jonas pmurias: I think you can have inline xml in perl5 too with some magic like that
20:59 pmurias yes with glob
20:59 cjfields_ joined #perl6
20:59 moritz_ or with source filters *me ducks*
20:59 donaldh tene: yes, that's what I'm thinking.
20:59 b_jonas yep. what module was that?
21:00 * Auzon imagines the chaos caused by inline XML via source filtering and XML parsing via regexes
21:00 b_jonas but actually it doesn't gain much over just defining a function with a short name and writing eg. xml q<<foo>bar</foo>>
21:01 donaldh Except the syntax gets hairy.
21:01 Auzon or a macro so it's a real quoting construct
21:01 moritz_ the difference is one-pass parsing
21:01 Auzon qXML "<foo>"
21:01 Eevee at midway &
21:01 moritz_ so you can do q:xml{<foo>}</foo>} and DWIM
21:02 b_jonas why's a midway & a problem?
21:02 pmurias b_jonas: XML::All
21:02 b_jonas pmurias: ah, thanks
21:05 Auzon What's with the =kwid in some .t files?
21:06 moritz_ Auzon: old POD syntax
21:06 b_jonas old?
21:06 Auzon I can convert it to =pod, correct?
21:06 b_jonas isn't any = at the beginning of line still pod?
21:06 Auzon b_jonas: I'm guessing 'old new'
21:07 b_jonas that is, from the perl parser's view, not from the pod parser's
21:07 moritz_ Auzon: yes
21:08 pmurias isn't kwid a pod alternative?
21:09 moritz_ pmurias: don't think it's in the spec
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21:16 Auzon perl6: say q:abc:
21:16 p6eval kp6 r20871: OUTPUT[syntax error at position 5, line 1 column 5:␤say q:abc␤     ^ HERE␤]
21:16 p6eval ..pugs: OUTPUT[*** No such subroutine: "&q"␤    at /tmp/3UlyQc1gWk line 1, column 5-10␤]
21:16 p6eval ..rakudo r28527: OUTPUT[Statement not terminated properly at line 1, near ":abc:"␤current instr.: 'parrot;PGE::Util;die' pc 120 (runtime/parrot/library/PGE/Util.pir:82)␤
21:16 p6eval ..elf r20871: OUTPUT[Permission denied at ./elf_f_faster line 255.␤]
21:19 Auzon Is ~@array defined in the spec?
21:20 moritz_ Auzon: yes, ~ is string context
21:21 Auzon I meant is the result defined to be a certain thing
21:22 moritz_ dunno
21:27 bacek_ joined #perl6
21:28 Auzon rakudo: my $s = 'one'; my @a = <two three>; say $s ~ @a;
21:28 p6eval rakudo r28527 OUTPUT[onetwo three␤]
21:28 pugs_svnbot r20872 | pmurias++ | [sm0p] actions are un6'ed (not run yet)
21:28 pugs_svnbot r20872 | pmurias++ | updated sm0p_dump_march
21:28 pugs_svnbot r20872 | pmurias++ | <alpha> is <.alpha>
21:43 pugs_svnbot r20873 | Auzon++ | [gsoc_spectest] added more quoting tests. removed kwid from quoting.t and moved quoting.t to spec/S02-literals. (added 10 tests)
21:43 pugs_svnbot r20873 | Auzon++ | Also removed unneeded smartlink in radix.t.
21:45 cjfields joined #perl6
21:48 moritz_ Auzon++ # good work
21:52 toddr joined #perl6
22:19 pugs_svnbot r20874 | moritz++ | [spec] replaced kwid by pod in S02-magicals/pid.t
22:22 pbuetow joined #perl6
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22:32 meppl joined #perl6
22:38 awwaiid where can I find the grammar interpreter that larry used during his talk?
22:39 awwaiid I found the Perl-6.0.0-STD.pm in the pugs repo without issue :)
22:47 FurnaceBoy joined #perl6
23:13 cjfields joined #perl6
23:23 TimToady awwaiid: if that's the name of the file, you must have a very old pugs repo
23:23 TimToady it was renamed to STD.pm some time ago
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