Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2008-06-29

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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01:33 pugs_svnbot r21104 | lwall++ | [STD] 55%
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02:20 rakudo_svn r28804 | petdance++ | fixed some markup
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02:59 Lorn moritz_: ping
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03:39 Auzon elf: 8 + 1 + 12 + 14 + 8
03:39 p6eval elf 21104: RESULT[43␤]
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04:37 pugs_svnbot r21105 | Auzon++ | [gsoc_spectest] many relational tests (checking that Bool::True or Bool::False is returned, num/str usage). (added 28 tests)
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07:02 pugs_svnbot r21106 | lwall++ | [STD] 100%!!!
07:02 pugs_svnbot r21106 | lwall++ | STD5 now parses STD.pm (more or less correctly) in 75 sec using 70 megs
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08:41 riffraff hi
08:48 spinclad STD5++ !   # svn up && play with it !
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09:09 pugs_svnbot r21107 | clkao++ | set the dump url for svk to bootstrap mirror with.
09:11 rindolf clkao: here?
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13:52 rakudo_svn r28816 | pmichaud++ | [rakudo]:
13:52 rakudo_svn r28816 | pmichaud++ | * Update test_summary.pl script to use -G,
13:52 rakudo_svn r28816 | pmichaud++ |   record aborted test runs as failed tests.
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13:55 pugs_svnbot r21108 | pmichaud++ | Update skip message for S29-num/abs.t .
14:09 rakudo_svn r28818 | pmichaud++ | [rakudo]:
14:09 rakudo_svn r28818 | pmichaud++ | * In test_summary.pl, counting aborts as failed tests should count
14:09 rakudo_svn r28818 | pmichaud++ |   them as tests, too.
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14:41 rakudo_svn r28822 | pmichaud++ | [rakudo]:
14:41 rakudo_svn r28822 | pmichaud++ | * spectest-progress update: 75 test files, 1077 passing, 74 failing
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16:08 moritz_ Lorn_: pong
16:09 moritz_ (with only 14Hrs delay)
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16:40 moritz_ pixie: say "test"
16:40 p6eval pixie: OUTPUT[fatal error: ############# PARSE FAILED #############␤----> <<<HERE>>>say "test"␤Can't understand next input--giving up at line 1␤]
16:41 moritz_ pixie: say 1
16:41 p6eval pixie: OUTPUT[fatal error: ############# PARSE FAILED #############␤----> <<<HERE>>>say 1␤Can't understand next input--giving up at line 1␤]
16:41 moritz_ pixie: 1;
16:41 p6eval pixie: OUTPUT[fatal error: ############# PARSE FAILED #############␤----> <<<HERE>>>1;␤Can't understand next input--giving up at line 1␤]
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16:53 moritz_ is '.=' just a method call, or also a special operator?
16:53 moritz_ in other words, can I do $obj .= method; ?
16:55 pmichaud it's an operator, but yes,   $obj .= method   works
16:55 pmichaud it's essentially the same as  $obj = $obj.method;   (but "in place")
16:56 pmichaud so, $x.abs   returns the absolute value of $x,  but $x.=abs  changes $x to its absolute value
16:57 moritz_ I knew that $x.=abs works, but I didn't know about $x .= abs
16:57 pmichaud it's the same parse
16:57 moritz_ thanks
16:57 pmichaud i.e., it's infix:<.=> in either case
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17:03 b_jonas I wonder if the $foo.$bar indirect method call syntax doesn't clash with some other syntax
17:04 b_jonas also $foo!$bar
17:04 b_jonas but apparently no
17:04 b_jonas it's funny
17:04 rakudo_svn r28826 | moritz++ | [rakudo] removed connect.t from spectest_regression, connect() isn't
17:04 rakudo_svn r28826 | moritz++ | implemented. This test only succeeded (and skipped everything) so far
17:04 rakudo_svn r28826 | moritz++ | because nobody had PERL_TESTS_ALLOW_NETWORK env variable set.
17:05 moritz_ b_jonas: why should it? . is used only for floating point literals and method calls
17:05 b_jonas no, not only
17:05 b_jonas it's used for dotted infix operators too
17:05 b_jonas isn't it?
17:05 moritz_ example?
17:05 moritz_ what is a "dotted infix operator"?
17:05 b_jonas wait, let me look it up
17:06 moritz_ there's infix:<..> for creating ranges, but that's an entirely different token
17:06 b_jonas hmm no
17:06 b_jonas backspace is used for that now
17:06 b_jonas like
17:06 b_jonas and it's indexing, not infix
17:06 b_jonas like
17:06 b_jonas @foo\  [2]
17:06 pmichaud that's an "unspace"
17:07 moritz_ ah, but indexing *is* is amethod call
17:07 b_jonas no wait
17:07 b_jonas it also says something about dots
17:07 moritz_ you can say @foo.[2]
17:07 moritz_ which is an alias for @foo[2], which is a method call again
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17:07 b_jonas it says $foo.++ is equivalent to $foo++
17:07 b_jonas I see
17:08 moritz_ yes, because it calls postfix:<++>
17:08 pmichaud postfix operators may be preceded by a dot.
17:08 b_jonas and both indexing and ++ is a postfix, which is why they don't normally accept spaces before then?
17:08 pmichaud b_jonas: yes.
17:08 moritz_ right
17:09 moritz_ besides, it allows us to talk about postcircumfix:<[ ]> as .[] unambigously ;)
17:09 b_jonas so that means it would clash only if there was a postfix:<$> or postcircumfix:<$>
17:09 moritz_ aye
17:09 b_jonas but a dot is not allowed before infixes, right?
17:09 moritz_ (a postcircumfix needs two delimiters, though)
17:10 moritz_ right
17:10 b_jonas so I can say 1 + 2, can say 1.<+>(2), but can't say 1.+ 2
17:10 b_jonas no wait, it's 1.:<+>(2)
17:10 b_jonas according to S12
17:10 moritz_ I thought it was infix:<+>(1, 2)
17:11 b_jonas I think both
17:11 moritz_ and you can say 1.+2, but that's parsed as (1.) + 2 ;-)
17:11 b_jonas or either
17:11 b_jonas ah yeah,
17:11 b_jonas unlike in octave where 1.+2 is parsed as 1 .+ 2
17:11 b_jonas because there's a .+ operator
17:11 pmichaud there a .+ operator in Perl 6, also.
17:11 b_jonas but normally 1. is parsed as 1
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17:12 pmichaud 1. isn't valid Perl 6
17:12 b_jonas pmichaud: is there? what kind of operator?
17:12 pmichaud it has to be 1.0
17:12 b_jonas pmichaud: it's not?
17:12 b_jonas hmm
17:12 pmichaud (i.e., a decimal point has to be followed by a digit)
17:12 b_jonas that's good actually
17:12 pmichaud .+ is a different operator
17:12 SamB yeah, it's silly to parse 1. as floating-point
17:12 moritz_ btw the .:<+>  would be *very* weird syntax for ops with right associativity
17:12 b_jonas what does .+ do?
17:13 b_jonas ah, I see
17:13 b_jonas method call variant
17:13 pmichaud $object.+meth(@args)  # calls all methods (1 or more)
17:13 pmichaud (S12)
17:13 b_jonas moritz_: S12 specifically says     $a.:<+>($b)           # equivalent to $a + $b
17:14 b_jonas you need the paren or a colon I think
17:14 pmichaud need the colon.
17:14 moritz_ b_jonas: it does, but it *is* weird IMHO
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17:15 b_jonas I see
17:16 moritz_ while Perl 6 is very cool and well thought through in most areas, I sometimes find things where I disagree with @Larry
17:17 b_jonas inevitable
17:17 moritz_ but I guess that's unavoidable, and even if I designed a language myself, I'd find those corners
17:17 moritz_ (probably much more often, really)
17:18 pmichaud I think there are even places where @Larry disagrees with @Larry.  :-)  I _know_ there are places where I disagree with myself about things I've designed and implemented :-)
17:20 b_jonas you mean, places where any(@Larry) disagrees with any(@Larry)?
17:20 b_jonas luckily such a disagreement is usually not a big problem yet while the S can be changed
17:20 b_jonas they did change a few times already
17:21 b_jonas let's change the string concat operator to | by the way
17:21 b_jonas is there a | infix yet?
17:21 Auzon yes
17:21 b_jonas oh yeah there is
17:21 moritz_ I'm quite sure there is ;)
17:21 Auzon Junctions
17:21 b_jonas yep
17:21 b_jonas any
17:22 b_jonas well, I don't like how they have such short names anyway
17:22 b_jonas is there some simple syntax that's not used up yet by the way?
17:23 moritz_ yes, lots of non-ASCII operators ;)
17:23 pmichaud the ` character isn't used
17:23 b_jonas I said simple
17:23 b_jonas oh, very good
17:23 moritz_ but that's intentional
17:23 Auzon pmichaud: ` is semi-reserved for user stuff due to visibility
17:23 pmichaud Auzon: right.  So it's not "used" by Perl 6 :-)
17:23 b_jonas I was thinking of using ` for method calls next time I design an oo language
17:24 Auzon @ infix isn't used to my knowledge.
17:24 b_jonas and symbol literals (as a prefix), and structure element access (doubled) and stuff like that
17:24 b_jonas Auzon: hmm
17:24 b_jonas that ` is reserved is also good for meta-perl6 talks
17:24 b_jonas that is, you could eg. surround p6 code with `...`
17:24 b_jonas or stuff like that
17:25 b_jonas when you talk about perl6 syntax
17:25 pmichaud oh, we already have ... for that :-)
17:25 b_jonas but ... has a meaning, doesn't it?
17:25 b_jonas it dies
17:25 b_jonas it means unimplemented
17:25 pmichaud isn't that what `...` would mean?  ;-)
17:26 b_jonas and it's documented as a standard way to declare a sub without defining it
17:26 b_jonas using ... is annoying for that reason
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17:26 b_jonas you can't dotdotdot out code
17:26 pmichaud the synopses are full of examples where "..." is used to mean "other stuff goes here"
17:26 b_jonas that you don't show
17:26 b_jonas exactly
17:27 b_jonas btw, there's a similar problem with J
17:27 pmichaud could always use ???, then :-)
17:27 b_jonas meh, ??? is an operator already, isn't it?
17:27 pmichaud right, it calls warn
17:27 b_jonas there is no easy syntax reserved for meta-J talk
17:28 b_jonas I ended up taking the habit of putting J code in round parenthesis
17:28 b_jonas they're used as grouping parenthesis in J but they're at least usually balanced in one-liners
17:29 moritz_ <meta_J_talk>...</meta_J_talk> # a bit verbose, though :)
17:29 b_jonas yep
17:30 b_jonas and it's actually <J_code>...</J_code> because you want to surround the J code in meta-J context
17:31 b_jonas you could use ). if you wanted a two-character delimiter that's absolutely not used anything in J yet
17:31 b_jonas s/used/used for/
17:31 b_jonas or `.
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18:32 rakudo_svn r28829 | pmichaud++ | [rakudo]:
18:32 rakudo_svn r28829 | pmichaud++ | * Need to avoid tailcalls in cmp and leg due to RT#56448.
18:32 rakudo_svn r28830 | pmichaud++ | [rakudo]:
18:32 rakudo_svn r28830 | pmichaud++ | * More fixes to list context, move 'join' and 'sort' into Any class.
18:32 rakudo_svn r28830 | pmichaud++ | * All spectest_regression tests pass again.
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18:36 pugs_svnbot r21109 | pmichaud++ | S29-list/join.t:  unskip two more tests for rakudo.
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19:49 pmurias pixie: say 4;
19:49 p6eval pixie: OUTPUT[fatal error: ############# PARSE FAILED #############␤----> <<<HERE>>>say 4;␤Can't understand next input--giving up at line 1␤]
19:53 pmurias pixie: say 4
19:53 p6eval pixie: OUTPUT[fatal error: ############# PARSE FAILED #############␤----> <<<HERE>>>say 4␤Can't understand next input--giving up at line 1␤]
19:53 pmurias moritz_: it's an evalbot problem
19:57 pugs_svnbot r21110 | pmurias++ | [pixie]
19:57 pugs_svnbot r21110 | pmurias++ | moving towards passing 01-sanity/02-counter.t ;)
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20:37 pmurias_ @tell mncharity run-tests hides some failures in sanity at least 01-sanity/02-counter.t
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21:13 pugs_svnbot r21111 | pmichaud++ | S04-statements/no-implict-block.t:  Update rakudo skip message.
21:13 pugs_svnbot r21112 | pmichaud++ | Fix naming of "no-implicit-block.t"
21:13 rakudo_svn r28833 | pmichaud++ | [rakudo]:
21:13 rakudo_svn r28833 | pmichaud++ | * Update name of S04-statements/no-implicit-block.t
21:14 * moritz_ -- # typos in file names
21:18 moritz_ http://nopaste.snit.ch/13424
21:18 moritz_ @tell pmurias http://nopaste.snit.ch/13424
21:18 moritz_ ENOLAMBDABOT
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21:31 pugs_svnbot r21113 | moritz++ | [spec] S29-list/join.t: backed tests withe quotes from TimToady, since I
21:31 pugs_svnbot r21113 | moritz++ | haven't got around fixing the specs (and nobody else had in the mean time)
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Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo